PLD. Not having a gap-closer. Cover buff.

I understand PLD has Cover that other tanks don't. So that should make up for the lack of a gap-closing action. If only Cover is as fun as leaping swiftly forward. As of now, half the time I try to use Cover my target, usually the healer – a caster, tends to be far away and thus out of range.

WHM's Medica which spread-out has a radius of 15 yalms. Cover is focused and only has a range of 10 yalms. Doesn't it make more sense that a focused beam of aether should go farther?

So I won't ask for a gap-closer. I just want Cover to be effective within 15 – 20 yalms.

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Originally Posted by Opus

I understand PLD has Cover that other tanks don't. So that should make up for the lack of a gap-closing action. If only Cover is as fun as leaping swiftly forward. As of now, half the time I try to use Cover my target, usually the healer – a caster, tends to be far away and thus out of range.

WHM's Medica which spread-out has a radius of 15 yalms. Cover is focused and only has a range of 10 yalms. Doesn't it make more sense that a focused beam of aether should go farther?

So I won't ask for a gap-closer. I just want Cover to be effective within 15 – 20 yalms.

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... I think pld equivalent of a gap-closer is tempered will not cover, as gap-closer serves as a way to either re-position yourself or avoid"ish" those knock back the only catch is that tempered will just doesn't move you at all.

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Originally Posted by Opus

I understand PLD has Cover that other tanks don't. So that should make up for the lack of a gap-closing action. If only Cover is as fun as leaping swiftly forward. As of now, half the time I try to use Cover my target, usually the healer – a caster, tends to be far away and thus out of range.

WHM's Medica which spread-out has a radius of 15 yalms. Cover is focused and only has a range of 10 yalms. Doesn't it make more sense that a focused beam of aether should go farther?

So I won't ask for a gap-closer. I just want Cover to be effective within 15 – 20 yalms.

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Paladin doesn't need a gap closer like at all.

I also think cover is fine. if you're covering a whm who's 20 yalms away what exactly are they going to get hit by? generally the reason casters are so far away is so they don't get hit in the first place. and if they don't get hit they don't need covering....

wait actually I would change cover. i'd make it take debuffs off the target... makes no sense that I can cover a stormsplitter or something yet the main tank still gets the debuff from it.. when I effectively took the hit

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Paladin doesn't need a gap closer like at all.

I also think cover is fine. if you're covering a whm who's 20 yalms away what exactly are they going to get hit by? generally the reason casters are so far away is so they don't get hit in the first place. and if they don't get hit they don't need covering....

wait actually I would change cover. i'd make it take debuffs off the target... makes no sense that I can cover a stormsplitter or something yet the main tank still gets the debuff from it.. when I effectively took the hit

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However...you can get the thunder 3 debuff from exdeath if you cover the main tank...

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Originally Posted by Phileas

However...you can get the thunder 3 debuff from exdeath if you cover the main tank...

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well consistency would be nice lol. should work on all of them not just some

I'd still like to see pld get a gap closer, it's the only melee job that doesn't have one. (Especially in pvp. Holy Spirit is nice, but you still have to do royal authority to build gage/recover mp.) Using the whm analogy isn't right. I think drg is more fitting. People complained about dragon sight and it got fixed, but it had the same range as cover. A pld can't be expected to cover any group member that needs it with that kind of range.

I'd like a lower recast on Tempered Will, and better consistency in nullifying knockbacks and board slides like Sophia/Levi. Cover's good but I'll take more QoL why not.

Gap closer can be game-changing in terms of maximizing uptime, otherwise you'd have to rely on your healers using rescue. Also it seems like the only relevant usage of tempered will right now is o4s exdeath vacuum wave, since it doesn't work on downburst or off-balance. Lowering its cd won't really matter much unless they make it work on other stuffs.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

well consistency would be nice lol. should work on all of them not just some

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Yeah, always hate the lack of consistency on such moves.
Even tempered/surecast dont always stop push backs.

depending on server ticks, even a perfectly times gap closer, with a flexible window, can still fail to bring you back to the boss.

But for the sake of diverse gameplay between tanks, being able to survive knockbacks is important, but the method to do so doesnt need to be the same.
(this is why WARs gap closer is a DPS loss, since they originally had holmgang for this, and sometimes holmgang works less often than tempered will)

It looks like the boss design devs and the job design devs don't like each other. " Lets design these situational abilities in case something happens." Lets design fights so that situational abilities don't work...

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

(this is why WARs gap closer is a DPS loss, since they originally had holmgang for this, and sometimes holmgang works less often than tempered will)

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Unless it's not. For example using it during vacuum wave knockback animation, pop too early you still get pushed back then have no gap closer, pop it late and your forced to run into range before you can use it, but pop it at just the right time and it's like you never moved, that's gotta save at least 2 gcds compared to the other scenarios. Besides, WAR has 2 anti-knockback abilities (holmgang & Inner Release), but obviously you don't just use them to prevent a knockback. So that's why it's nice to have a short 15-sec gap closer - you can use the other abilities for their actual purpose.

Aside from all that, I know it makes my pally partner super jealous when he sees me fly back into the action :cool:

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Unless it's not. For example using it during vacuum wave knockback animation, pop too early you still get pushed back then have no gap closer, pop it late and your forced to run into range before you can use it, but pop it at just the right time and it's like you never moved, that's gotta save at least 2 gcds compared to the other scenarios. Besides, WAR has 2 anti-knockback abilities (holmgang & Inner Release), but obviously you don't just use them to prevent a knockback. So that's why it's nice to have a short 15-sec gap closer - you can use the other abilities for their actual purpose.

Aside from all that, I know it makes my pally partner super jealous when he sees me fly back into the action :cool:

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Yeah, you're technically right.

Though on an unrelated note, as I mentioned before about sure cast not always working, I think, Im starting to see whats causing the issue.
I think there is a glitch that if you have dual cast proc up, and then hit sure cast, either the next spell consumes both dual cast and surecast, or the enemies push back consumes the surecast buff.

Either way, im not sure, but it seemed to only happen when dual cast proc was up.

I took my time for one fight, hit sure cast, checked to make sure it wnet off, wasnt moving or casting, saw it just now went on CD, went to continue the fight, and noticed it wasnt on my buff bar.
I popped it 1 second before exdeath started up vacuum wave, so i know it didnt wear off, and nor did i activate it too late.
And of course I got knocked back.
kept checking my buff bar to make sure it was there after that. and one more time, it happened again, it was on CD, but no buff showed up, and the only thing in common was dual cast being up.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Gap closer can be game-changing in terms of maximizing uptime, otherwise you'd have to rely on your healers using rescue. Also it seems like the only relevant usage of tempered will right now is o4s exdeath vacuum wave, since it doesn't work on downburst or off-balance. Lowering its cd won't really matter much unless they make it work on other stuffs.

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True but in the interim they could make it so that the ability doesn't have a cooldown of fifteen years so at least it works well for the stuff it can affect.

I had a PLD cover me from exdeaths thunder 3 once, but he stood too close to me to make sure the tether was there and he got zapped twice and died. It was quite funny but also kinda sad that he felt the need to stand that close to make sure cover did what it was supposed to do.

I've always wanted to see Cover follow the same approach that it did in older Final Fantasy titles, where your character sprite would do a little hop to the front of the character that they were defending and block the attack with a shield. Either that, or I'd like to see something in a similar vein to the HW countdown artwork for PLD, where you pick up a party member and dash to safety.

Either way, Tempered Will could certainly do with a shorter cooldown than it does now. Inner Release offers the same effect and more for double the duration and on a minute shorter cooldown, and WAR has a 15 second gap closer on top of that. I think ultimately, they should just give PLD a gap closer and make Tempered Will into a standard role action, similar to how Arm's Length and Surecast can be situationally slotted in on other roles.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Either way, Tempered Will could certainly do with a shorter cooldown than it does now. Inner Release offers the same effect and more for double the duration and on a minute shorter cooldown, and WAR has a 15 second gap closer on top of that.

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Inner release isn't used for the knockback protection. Holmgang is used for knockback protection.

Inner release has CC protection because it would be obscenely painful to end up losing any amount of uptime during that dedicated burst... not that it's ever stopped CC from working when the game wants to be difficult.

Actually, you're far, far more likely to use Onslaught for knockback negation, given that it can be pretty much be used on demand. IR's knockback negation effect is just icing on the cake. It's not that it "needs" to be there, and it's not like players on other jobs with big burst phases have ever required that sort of catering. When the overwhelming majority of your dps is condensed into 20 second chunks of active gameplay, pretty much your only job is to get those burst windows right (you can go afk for the rest). But now that the negation effect is there on IR, there will always be smart players who find ways to use the effect to their advantage.

My point is, though, if you compare Tempered Will to actions that provide the same effect, be it IR, Arm's Length, or Surecast, they all offer shorter recasts (in spite of having additional effects). Tempered Will was grandfathered into a bad deal, and the devs never got around to updating it to match contemporary ones in SB.

Its kinda bummer as i was almost 100% sure Plunge would be a role action in SB but nope, i just see gap-closers as "must have" tank ability so that's why i taught it would end up being a role skill.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Its kinda bummer as i was almost 100% sure Plunge would be a role action in SB but nope, i just see gap-closers as "must have" tank ability so that's why i taught it would end up being a role skill.

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I mean, neither tank had one prior to DRK, so it was kinda their thing until Onslaught was added. I think it'd be OK as a role skill in general, but I wouldn't want them to add it to the list now unless something else (such as provoke/shirk/etc) becomes native for the tanks to free up that role skill slot.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I mean, neither tank had one prior to DRK, so it was kinda their thing until Onslaught was added. I think it'd be OK as a role skill in general, but I wouldn't want them to add it to the list now unless something else (such as provoke/shirk/etc) becomes native for the tanks to free up that role skill slot.

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Yeah current role actions are kinda fixed atm so Plunge would have to compete with them, well maybe in 5.X we will see some changes in role action selection. I just loved plunge from day one and now i love onslaught as its feels and looks badass(BG cost is kinda annoying tho)so for PLD it could be something like shield charge/rush(kinda like that new sprinting animation), at least it would fit the theme

How about we stop gutting skills unnecessarily for role actions and give jobs their own unique version. The way they did it currently has thoroughly *bleeped* over DRK.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Yeah current role actions are kinda fixed atm so Plunge would have to compete with them, well maybe in 5.X we will see some changes in role action selection. I just loved plunge from day one and now i love onslaught as its feels and looks badass(BG cost is kinda annoying tho)so for PLD it could be something like shield charge/rush(kinda like that new sprinting animation), at least it would fit the theme

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The gauge cost is so crucial to playing the job, how else are you going to reliably dump gauge? Not with an unbuffed fell cleave, I hope. You need to use two onslaughts during your 40 second zerk cd window, and you have some room to play with where you use them. Using them to re-engage the boss, while also dumping excess gauge feels very rewarding.

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Originally Posted by Felorr

The gauge cost is so crucial to playing the job, how else are you going to reliably dump gauge? Not with an unbuffed fell cleave, I hope. You need to use two onslaughts during your 40 second zerk cd window, and you have some room to play with where you use them. Using them to re-engage the boss, while also dumping excess gauge feels very rewarding.

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Nothing wrong how it works at the moment but it was just my personal preference, not asking change or anything(well maybe in pvp version)but i just like to use gap closers when they are off-cd/ when i want or need.

Just ask for Shield Bash to be a gap closer... at least you would get both stun and gap closer on 1 GCD... would even be more useful than Shield Lob... and PLD would still be better than DRK... also ask for them to make Shoulder Tackle fast too while you're at it... (note that I'm being sarcastic and serious at the same time for those PLD buffs)

Actually if I have one gripe about paladin, it is how immobile it is. I understand tempered will is our "form" of a gap closer, but it never seems to work. If paladin is destined to not have a gap closer they should at least make it so that knock back prevention works always.

If we were to get a gap closer then I would like to see shield surfing, run forward throw the shield ion the ground jump on with your sword pointed at the enemy waiting for collision.

Paladin's gap closer should be party focused, not enemy focused. Dashing through the field to cement yourself between ally and enemy.

It'll functionally be used the same, but that's the flavor.

OH that would actually be neat. Cover dashes you within 5 yalms of your target and then places cover on them. :o

Yes it would be great if Tempered Will worked on more knock back mechanics,
While we lack a gap closer we do have the a 25y skill(Holy Spirit), that hits like a brick and hits even harder with Requiescat.
Do we even need a gap closer... not really Holy Spirit allows you to just run up and smack the target before the GCD tick is over.

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Originally Posted by shape

Yes it would be great if Tempered Will worked on more knock back mechanics,
While we lack a gap closer we do have the a 25y skill(Holy Spirit), that hits like a brick and hits even harder with Requiescat.
Do we even need a gap closer... not really Holy Spirit allows you to just run up and smack the target before the GCD tick is over.

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I am thinking more like v1s and v4s where you need to be out of the push back area immediate, or close to healers for aoe healing. Tempered works on exdeath but not v1s.