Would it be alright to ask for level restriction for rank?

Like the title says.Been getting stuck with level 30 to 40 players freshly new from pve thinking its the same thing when doing pvp. All I'm asking is for ranked not the 8v8 mode.

Ive had about 20 parties with lvl 30 healers with no other classes lvled. Exp in ranked feast was a super good idea.

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Originally Posted by Cammel

Ive had about 20 parties with lvl 30 healers with no other classes lvled. Exp in ranked feast was a super good idea.

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To be fair I feel like those might just be people's alts. Which is a whole other can of worms.

Well in some cases yea but i play on ps4 usually u can tell by the psn tags

so many lvl 30 chars doing Ranked Feast right now, so many loses -.- its not funny...

Agreed i mean everyone has to start somehow

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

The amount of tanks who grab defence buffs is outstanding...

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And then the ranged and healers dps the box from me as a tank thinking I will steal it, and I am just like "ALL I WANTED WAS THE GAUGE, WHY CAN'T I TELL THEM THIS" (then I cry in a corner)

Even I will admit, leveling through ranked PVP is not okay.

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Originally Posted by AdamZ

And then the ranged and healers dps the box from me as a tank thinking I will steal it, and I am just like "ALL I WANTED WAS THE GAUGE, WHY CAN'T I TELL THEM THIS" (then I cry in a corner)

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our gauges are more important. oh you said ranged and healers.. well melee need the box more

There's absolutely no reason for competitive PvP not to have some sort of safeguard against people signing up on a whim and being completely clueless about how 4vs4 works.

If the developers are going to insist on an incredibly infuriating and archaic system where we cannot chat and guide players as needed during a match then there needs to be a way to force players to go through a tutorial that teaches the various mechanics associated with PvP. They created the Hall of the Novice for PvE, after all. Yet there's no real equivalent for PvP. Expecting every player to have the common sense to practice in 8vs8 on their own accord just isn't working out.

Furthermore...it would not be unreasonable to expect those who are serious about competitive PvP to have a certain number of victories in 8vs8 to serve as an additional filter.

I just had 2 matches with the same level 30 healer healing my team and cost us the game twice along with other level 30s, jesus did my ranking take a hard hit. What the fk Yoshida. I would put my thoughts on here also but you guys have literally said everything I would have typed. Should have never tried to do PvP during the weekend, all the derps come out and ruin it for people trying to rank up seriously.

Update: If I can smack the devs with a moogle, I would in a heart beat with no regrets.

Plz let me level my alts lol

Please SE put a level requirement back on ranked. I am sick of losing matches due to having teammates dealing less damage on their DDs than me on a god damn Paladin in a full 8 minute match cause they're finding the need of levelling classes through ranked ....

It is probably not alright to ask for. SE had a company advise them on how to make their pvp more esports friendly (laugh if you want, they do care), and among the recommendations was not gating pvp with so much pve content.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It is probably not alright to ask for. SE had a company advise them on how to make their pvp more esports friendly (laugh if you want, they do care), and among the recommendations was not gating pvp with so much pve content.

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In every game I've played there was some sort of restriction on RANKED games. It's not smart to allow complete new players to play a competitive game mode... Hell even overwatch the easiest of games to pick up and learn has a requirement for RANKED games. I will never see FFXIV PVP as an esport simply due to the fact "It's a shit show" some games you get a decent match up and it's actually fun, some games you get a healer who's played 4 PVP matches total thinking they're ready for ranked play

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

In every game I've played there was some sort of restriction on RANKED games. It's not smart to allow complete new players to play a competitive game mode... Hell even overwatch the easiest of games to pick up and learn has a requirement for RANKED games. I will never see FFXIV PVP as an esport simply due to the fact "It's a shit show" some games you get a decent match up and it's actually fun, some games you get a healer who's played 4 PVP matches total thinking they're ready for ranked play

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And in all of those games, even overwatch as you mention, people want those requirements to be higher. They just want to keep piling them on... as though it will somehow help filter out "bads".

Really though... if you want to play with better players, rank up. But people will always be unhappy with losing teams in pvp. So it goes.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

And in all of those games, even overwatch as you mention, people want those requirements to be higher. They just want to keep piling them on... as though it will somehow help filter out "bads".

Really though... if you want to play with better players, rank up. But people will always be unhappy with losing teams in pvp. So it goes.

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This season is so bad it's really hard to "carry" unless you heal, being forced into a role just to get out of "elo hell" is absurd. I've never seen anyone cry to improve rank requirements in overwatch... If you're a decent player you skip over all of the "bads" and actually play with players around your skill, you're not forced to move up from Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Diamond just to get where you belong

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

And in all of those games, even overwatch as you mention, people want those requirements to be higher. They just want to keep piling them on... as though it will somehow help filter out "bads".

Really though... if you want to play with better players, rank up. But people will always be unhappy with losing teams in pvp. So it goes.

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except there's literally 0 requirement to get into ranked here other than "hurr durr get lvl 30" Any average joe can get to lvl 30 in a few hours and enter ranked pvp without knowing what to do at all. When these players get into a ranked game and then deal less dmg than a tank does, then that is a huge issue since those aren't just dragging themselves down, but everyone else in the team with them.

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

I've never seen anyone cry to improve rank requirements in overwatch...

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Then you don't frequent their forums. They make the exact same arguments you, Dmal, and others are making "Hurr durr level 25 is too easy", "Can't carry these bads," etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Then you don't frequent their forums. They make the exact same arguments you, Dmal, and others are making "Hurr durr level 25 is too easy", "Can't carry these bads," etc etc.

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You are completely ignoring the point that people with absolutely zero game knowledge can enter ranked pvp at any time once they hit lvl 30. which at the current state of the game a newbie can reach after about 5-10 hours of playing the game tops. everyone is cool if they do that in a casual mode where the whole reward is exp. But these players have access to a competetive mode where we actually play for prizes. You can't just tell people "get good if you want to play with good palyers" when literally people who would reach top 100 in each season are forced to play with those people and DEPEND ON THEM PLAYING WELL to even get back to their ranks.

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Originally Posted by Dmal

You are completely ignoring the point that people with absolutely zero game knowledge can enter ranked pvp at any time once they hit lvl 30.

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And this is complete hyperbole. By level 30 they've experienced a number of dungeons, experienced the cross class system, learned class roles, and so on. And... pvp is so different from pve now, putting some arbitrary level requirement on it won't help in the slightest. They'll have to relearn everything for pvp anyways. (Also I'd like to see someone get that far in 5~10 hours. I don't think it's possible, unless you have a crew to unsync your dungeons for you and maybe even then because you still need exp).

By the time you're in silver, seeing bronze newbies is rare. By gold... well, perhaps possible if you're queuing at some really weird times, but nearly nonexistent.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

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Even if that's the case XIVs PVP competitive mode relies more on teamwork than overwatch. In OW you can have a dps carry their heart out, that won't work at all on this game since a dps is only as good as their healer allows. If a dps keeps dying due to a healer's inability to keep them alive even when they're kiting and sprinting (Cant break LoS because your healer thats fresh from pve doesn't know healer positions matter a lot more than pve) then that's entirely on the healers fault since there's nothing more they could have done to prevent the death. There are no health packs for self sustain, there is no backcapping to win the game even though your team is getting destroyed, there are no tactics you can use since you can't switch classes inside and adjust accordingly to help give your team an edge. It's literally "Who's healer can keep their teammates alive the longest will win this match" that takes the skill out of pvp and just adds RNG

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

And this is complete hyperbole. By level 30 they've experienced a number of dungeons, experienced the cross class system, learned class roles, and so on. And... pvp is so different from pve now, putting some arbitrary level requirement on it won't help in the slightest. They'll have to relearn everything for pvp anyways. (Also I'd like to see someone get that far in 5~10 hours. I don't think it's possible, unless you have a crew to unsync your dungeons for you and maybe even then because you still need exp).

By the time you're in silver, seeing bronze newbies is rare. By gold... well, perhaps possible if you're queuing at some really weird times, but nearly nonexistent.

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PvE level restriction won't help no, but a PVP level restriction will. We still have PvP levels for some reason, might as well make them useful and set it for locking ranked behind that.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

And this is complete hyperbole.

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Yes, just as me having people dealing less dmg on DDs than I am on my paladin in pvp is also a total hyperbole /s

The issues we're talking about are literally happening. they aren't just some made up story all of us came up with all of a sudden.

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

PvE level restriction won't help no, but a PVP level restriction will. We still have PvP levels for some reason, might as well make them useful and set it for locking ranked behind that.

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OW players would beg to differ, I think, but let's look past that for now and focus on XIV.

That might be a fair requirement, but I'm not sure that would really help if they're just spamming frontline. I would instead suggest a few unranked battles as a requirement, or perhaps a "Hall of the Novice" for pvp that must be done first. Enough to teach basics, but of course 'meta' strategies and some such things wouldn't be suited here as they tend to change over time. In any case, I don't think the requirements should be overly arduous -- those that learn quick will do well quick. Those that don't, won't be helped by setting a high gate.

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Originally Posted by Dmal

Yes, just as me having people dealing less dmg on DDs than I am on my paladin in pvp is also a total hyperbole /s

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DPS dealing low damage isn't always hyperbole. Claiming people that have been playing the game for however many hours (which is most assuredly higher than 10 hours) have zero game knowledge, that is the very definition of hyperbole.

Would you like to make an actual argument, or shall we stay here in pedant corner? xD

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

OW players would beg to differ, I think, but let's look past that for now and focus on XIV.

That might be a fair requirement, but I'm not sure that would really help if they're just spamming frontline. I would instead suggest a few unranked battles as a requirement, or perhaps a "Hall of the Novice" for pvp that must be done first. Enough to teach basics, but of course 'meta' strategies and some such things wouldn't be suited here as they tend to change over time. In any case, I don't think the requirements should be overly arduous -- those that learn quick will do well quick. Those that don't, won't be helped by setting a high gate.

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A Hall of the novice I can agree with, as well as with the match requirements. Anything is better than throwing fresh meat into a pit with hungry wolves

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

By the time you're in silver, seeing bronze newbies is rare. By gold... well, perhaps possible if you're queuing at some really weird times, but nearly nonexistent.

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No it isn't. Your data center must just not be as flooded as mine is. Doesn't matter what time of the day or even what day you queue, you will still see unranked/bronze even in gold that are barely level 30-40 and have no idea what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

DPS dealing low damage isn't always hyperbole. Claiming people that have been playing the game for however many hours (which is most assuredly higher than 10 hours) have zero game knowledge, that is the very definition of hyperbole.

Would you like to make an actual argument, or shall we stay here in pedant corner? xD

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Do you maybe think that it might be possible that some of us might be looking up cases of our bad team members on the lodestone and then seing that quite a few of those are on their first class that hasn't even reached lvl 60 yet? Because boy, lemme tell you, the possibility of that is quite high.
Edit: also a search info still exists in a match

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Originally Posted by Dmal

Do you maybe think that it might be possible that some of us might be looking up cases of our bad team members on the lodestone and then seing that quite a few of those are on their first class that hasn't even reached lvl 60 yet? Because boy, lemme tell you, the possibility of that is quite high.

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My argument remains exactly the same--

I don't think them being level 60 will help. pvp and pve are radically different experiences with completely different ability sets.

Conversely, I do think it's good that they can try pvp without it being gated around a massive pve/story investment (and since SE went with the recommendation to reduce pve requirements, I would suspect they do too).

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

My argument remains exactly the same--

I don't think them being level 60 will help. pvp and pve are radically different experiences with completely different ability sets.

Conversely, I do think it's good that they can try pvp without it being gated around a massive pve/story investment (and since SE went with the recommendation to reduce pve requirements, I would suspect they do too).

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Its perfectly fine if they want to do 8v8 or frontline, but they should be kept out of ranked.

I think the better solution to the new people problem would be a MANDATORY "Hall of Novice Training" for 4v4 Feast, to these newbs the basics.

The Feast Hall of Novice Training should include:
1) How the medals work.
2) Which classes should get the Offensive and Defensive buffs (NO TANKS!).
3) Which classes should get the Wolf's Heart (... healer...)
4) Line of Sighting.
5) Basic bursting.

And on the side, an NPC that can give a quick tutorial of how traits and additional actions work.

If this doesn't work for whoever, well... then we can start making memes about that person, because it wouldn't matter if that player is level 30 or 40 etc.

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Originally Posted by Astrophysx

I think the better solution to the new people problem would be a MANDATORY "Hall of Novice Training" for 4v4 Feast, to these newbs the basics.

The Feast Hall of Novice Training should include:
1) How the medals work.
2) Which classes should get the Offensive and Defensive buffs (NO TANKS!).
3) Which classes should get the Wolf's Heart (... healer...)
4) Line of Sighting.
5) Basic bursting.

And on the side, an NPC that can give a quick tutorial of how traits and additional actions work.

If this doesn't work for whoever, well... then we can start making memes about that person.

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I'd only add to it that there should be a couple of 8v8s required, not a lot but their first real fight shouldnt be in ranked. Other games have bots, but we don't , they need to train a bit first. Maybe like 3-5 games.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I'd only add to it that there should be a couple of 8v8s required, not a lot but their first real fight shouldnt be in ranked. Other games have bots, but we don't , they need to train a bit first. Maybe like 3-5 games.

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Agreed, of course my idea of this training would be within an unranked 4v4 Player vs. CPU training. Then afterward, maybe a certain number of 8v8 matches must be completed. If only SE had an unranked 4v4 available. <.<

EDIT: sorry I said basically the same things you said. lol stupid alcohol! LOL

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Originally Posted by Astrophysx

Agreed, of course my idea of this training would be within an unranked 4v4 Player vs. CPU training. Then afterward, maybe a certain number of 8v8 matches must be completed. If only SE had an unranked 4v4 available. <.<

EDIT: sorry I said basically the same things you said. lol stupid alcohol! LOL

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It's all good lol. As long as they get things explained, by then playing a bit versus a few real folks in a less stressful environment would allow them to actually learn a bit quicker and cause a lot less frustration to ranked players.

I'm sure a lot of us have played a ton of 8v8/Frontlines in between seasons(and at least fold/frontlines beforehand) and it really does make a difference just having some kind of experience versus none at all, especially if they're freshly level 30 like it seems a lot of the lower ranks are and even some of them that aren't could at least use a lesson in heavy medal.

Edit: Also not sure if they're capable of making bots or not. But if they were a CPU training would be immensely useful to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

It's all good lol. As long as they get things explained, by then playing a bit versus a few real folks in a less stressful environment would allow them to actually learn a bit quicker and cause a lot less frustration to ranked players.

I'm sure a lot of us have played a ton of 8v8/Frontlines in between seasons(and at least fold/frontlines beforehand) and it really does make a difference just having some kind of experience versus none at all, especially if they're freshly level 30 like it seems a lot of the lower ranks are and even some of them that aren't could at least use a lesson in heavy medal.

Edit: Also not sure if they're capable of making bots or not. But if they were a CPU training would be immensely useful to everyone.

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It's not impossible, but for this game that'd be a huge huge amount of work since to even give any simulation of a real pvp game they'd have make bots perform the amount of burst an actual player can output

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

It's not impossible, but for this game that'd be a huge huge amount of work since to even give any simulation of a real pvp game they'd have make bots perform the amount of burst an actual player can output

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I'd imagine so yeah. The level of healing too, they could just use the gambit system they were developing couldn't they?

I wish PVP level counted for something , but then again it isn't a guarantee of skill only a matter of time spent. Would separating ranked even help? Frontline is more rewarding at the moment ,but there are still people in feast who don't know what to do aren't there? The X many matches completed before you get turned loose is a good idea in my opinion. Similar to the hall of novice , but for pvp.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

By the time you're in silver, seeing bronze newbies is rare. By gold... well, perhaps possible if you're queuing at some really weird times, but nearly nonexistent.

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The hell are you talking about? I see bronze and unranked players all the time and I'm at the end journey of silver. >_< Just go please. Everything you have posted is just nay. I agree with everyone else. Back to struggling to not lose my gold promotion again.