Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

Today, Mr. Happy posted a video in which he describes a interview he did with Yoshi P during the reveal that occurred last month.

At the beginning of the video about the question in reference to his first question about his received answers, he stated that these answers were paraphrased and to not quote them but during 4:42 of the video seen here: https://youtu.be/5la_nyC5BO0?t=282
Mr. Happy states what Yoshi P wanted to make a clear point "I really want you to emphasize this to your viewers" then Yoshi P goes on to say "I firmly believe that it should not be mandatory(Healers DPSing) and we do not have the expectation for them to dps!"

Now, even if that was a paraphrase(which to anyone who views the video that it isn't) Yoshi P made it clear that if a person plays a healer....the game has been designed it for Healer DPS to be a OPTIONAL CHOICE! Not a required one.

Now we all know that you may vote kick players from content they qued for based on your view of "different playstyles" But let this be clear.....you are kicking these players not because of them not performing their roles correctly by not DPSing....but because you decided to dictate how you feel others should play!

I already know that I will getting alot of flak from this post by receiving insults, others demeaning this post a useless or null in void based on their opinions. But I want everyone in the community to know the facts.(hence the reason for the post) That yet again for both new players and Veteran...DPS IS NOT MANDATORY FOR HEALERS! To state otherwise is nothing more than your opinion....not fact or intended game design!

*UPDATE*
I want to state this to everyone. I didn't make this post to upset, disrespect or negate anyones views or opinions. But I have never seen so many players up front disrespect Yoshi P this way in the 3 years of playing this game on this account or my 1st account based solely on his statement on their intended design. I can understand disagreeing with him....but to insult him the way others have is pretty sad that it has come to that. I respect that you do not agree with this game design or statement as if anyone knows my own past on the forums I have had my own issues with SE.....but I humbly ask everyone to show respect to all others and to remind ourselves that we may have differing opinions.....but we are all here for fun.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Here is another story that happened today (posted a summery in the horrible DF thread)

So here was my friend on ast, noticed whm in party so used the buff that puts shields on the heals. She noticed right away she needed to heal more then what is usually needed and adjusted but with extra stress and pressingbuttons a lot faster, as she tried to keep aoe balance on people while doing the extra healingand while doing DPS still. She did not like how the tanks was handling titan (and got cleaved a few times, while the tank did not migrate damage as much she liked.) So she was pretty much over stressed and even with all this, she outhealed the WHM with SHIELDS (not supposed to happen, regen healers tend to place top) while completely outclassing the other healer in DPS WHILE STILL KEEPING cards up AND! doing more DPS then some DPS. This is why people call heal only healers lazy. She was able not only to recognize all this during the moment but ended up giving a com to the highest DPS (before she was given a meter from someone else along with the healing meter, she com the highest dps) while suspecting she was healing much more then needed and MIGHT of did more healing then a regen based healing. She did not know the exact numbers, that would be impossible to do, but she was observant enough to tell who the highest DPS was, the fact the co healer was not doing much, and keeping tabs how the MT acted.

Saying you need to violate the tos to tell who has the highest DPS is a complete lie. You just can't recognize if everyone is good or if everyone is bad, and if everyone is good, there is no point in caring about the numbers anyway.

For that titen today the DPS went:
BRD>BRD>DRK> the shield using AST that was working overtime in healing> the second DRK> a 3rd BRD> the SMN that kept dying > LB> the WHM who got out healed by the sheild using AST.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Q3.) So...healers now have their DPS scale with Mind AND accuracy is no longer an issue. Do you think this will lead to players having even higher expectations of healers to contribute DPS to content since it is a much easier thing to do now?

A.) First of all, we do not expect healers to contribute to DPS. However we know a lot of the cutting edge players enjoy this aspect about the job and that those progressing in the raids early on use it help clear the fights. We decided to make it so that the idea was more approachable and less punishing so that if a player wants to try it, they aren’t sacrificing all of their healing capabilities to do so like they were with the old Cleric Stance. We didn’t like seeing healers doing entire dungeons in Cleric Stance, especially if they forget to switch back and heal!

That being said, and I want you to really reinforce this to your viewers, I firmly believe it shouldn’t be mandatory and we do NOT have the expectation of them to DPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5la_...ature=youtu.be
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...10713408585203

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Let us pass all DPS checks hitting 1 button every minute then. Fair is fair, I expect healers to put in effort like tanks and DPS. Why do healers get special treatment in doing much less effort and encouraged by the producer?

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I disagree even if the producer says "it is ok to be lazy and push a button once a minute while we sometimes make DPS checks so strict, a 100 ping to clip double weaving = wipe.

Why not make a game where you can "relax" and pass anything by having all jobs press 1 button a minute?

I also have a choice to kick lazy players, what then?

I thank you for letting us know about this. I play a more passive healing role and only DPS where I feel like we are lacking as the white mage of the party usually. That being said it is a combination of because healers are "healers" not DPS and also a bit of having to keep swapping to cleric stance. I have had instances of where I turn it on and then someone decides to not avoid an AoE or the boss crit the tank so I need to go back to heal but I can't since cleric stance is still on cooldown. Now with SB that won't be an issue anymore but I get the feeling I will still be in the habit of avoiding it when it isn't necessary. Which in this case thanks to Yoshi-P, won't ever be necessary. I shall give you no hate for I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

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Originally Posted by TorchicEX

I thank you for letting us know about this. I play a more passive healing role and only DPS where I feel like we are lacking as the white mage of the party usually. That being said it is a combination of because healers are "healers" not DPS and also a bit of having to keep swapping to cleric stance. I have had instances of where I turn it on and then someone decides to not avoid an AoE or the boss crit the tank so I need to go back to heal but I can't since cleric stance is still on cooldown. Now with SB that won't be an issue anymore but I get the feeling I will still be in the habit of avoiding it when it isn't necessary. Which in this case thanks to Yoshi-P, won't ever be necessary. I shall give you no hate for I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

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Yet again, you may disagree.....but that is your opinion....nothing more. Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

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Originally Posted by TorchicEX

I thank you for letting us know about this. I play a more passive healing role and only DPS where I feel like we are lacking as the white mage of the party usually. That being said it is a combination of because healers are "healers" not DPS and also a bit of having to keep swapping to cleric stance. I have had instances of where I turn it on and then someone decides to not avoid an AoE or the boss crit the tank so I need to goback to heal but I can't since cleric stance is still on cooldown. Now with SB that won't be an issue anymore but I get the feeling I will still be in the habit of avoiding it when it isn't necessary. Which in this case thanks to Yoshi-P, won't ever be necessary. I shall give you no hate for I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

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It is called foresight, you should be able gauge your party's skill level by the time you hit a boss and know when you might need to heal more. (see the story of titan HM my friend ran into today)

Again I ask why is healer the only job hat gets away with not having to mash keys like a madwoman?

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Yet again, you may disagree.....but that is your opinion....nothing more. Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

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That is a lazy defense, did you even read the story I quoted? Again you did not answer why it is ok healers can get away with being lazy and DPS can't. The game design requres DPS to have fractions of a second tight rotation or DPS suffers considerably, why do healers get to be easy mode?

The way your described you playstyle is 100% correct as long as you are healing being a HEALER. Good luck and thanks for the reply!

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is called foresight, you should be able gauge your party's skill level by the time you hit a boss and know when you might need to heal more. (see the story of titan HM my friend ran into today)

Again I ask why is healer the only job hat gets away with not having to mash keys like a madwoman?

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That is something you need to ask SE and Yoshi P. Until they change it....they are there to Heal with the choice to DPS...nothing more or less!

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

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Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.
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When I heal I expect myself to be active and to work towards achieving the shortest possible clear (keeping in mind where more than minimal healing may allow increased DPS from others, and where deaths are of course a massive blow to raid DPS). Anything less would be a double-standard. I would not allow my tanks not to use cooldowns, or to spam Flash, or my DPS not to dodge or to simply stop attacking. Why in the hell would I let myself not make use of my every global? Best use of each global may come with practice, but with a design that gives so much opportunity to DPS, or inversely so little opportunity to heal, why would I neglect half my potential output?

If a director is that of touch with his own designs, then so be it. Those who ignore him will simply perform better than those who can take that seriously.

Now, if SB had actually offered other means of making use of downtime, such as globals spent on support (derivative DPS) instead of direct attacks, this would hold water. But there are none. Every single support function is an oGCD, generally without any shared resource cost.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is called foresight, you should be able gauge your party's skill level by the time you hit a boss and know when you might need to heal more. (see the story of titan HM my friend ran into today)

Again I ask why is healer the only job hat gets away with not having to mash keys like a madwoman?

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Even then, people are prone to screwing up once in a while. That can catch a healer off guard and have to immediately swap back to heal them. Besides I did say that I help DPS when it is needed. You passed that off like it didn't matter.

Stone III
Aero IV
Holy
Gravity
Combust II
Malefic III
Lord of Crowns
Shadow Flare
Bio II
Broil II
Bane
Shadow Flare

You could create an entirely new DPS class using all of the 4.0 Healer skills/spells that are not "mandatory." Must feel great to have two hot bars instead of three.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

That is something you need to ask SE and Yoshi P. Until they change it....they are there to Heal with the choice to DPS...nothing more or less!

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No I am asking you since yoshi P is not responding to that issue.

Why is it ok for healers to get easy mode and DPS have to work so hard? This is by the so called game design you are advertising. How is that fair? I am at the border line of saying Yoshi-P does not understand what goes on if he cannot see why people dislike seeing DPS needing these split second tight rotations while healer gets easy mode.

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Originally Posted by TorchicEX

Even then, people are prone to screwing up once in a while. That can catch a healer off guard and have to immediately swap back to heal them. Besides I did say that I help DPS when it is needed. You passed that off like it didn't matter.

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Nope, that is the point of my story. If a healer can rank 4th highest dps while highest healing, that is enough to show this is wrong, esp when people where taking way more damage then they should have been taking. This was a shield healer outhealing a regen healer too, that is even more off the wall absurd. If you are experience enough and learn the fights, this becomes a non issue.

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Originally Posted by TorchicEX

Even then, people are prone to screwing up once in a while. That can catch a healer off guard and have to immediately swap back to heal them. Besides I did say that I help DPS when it is needed. You passed that off like it didn't matter.

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Here's the thing: the only time DPS isn't needed is if the enemies aren't dead. Until then, DPS is needed. Healing may or may not be needed at certain points, and if it IS needed it's definitely more important, but a significant amount of the time it's not.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Why is it ok for healers to get easy mode and DPS have to work so hard? This is by the so called game design you are advertising. How is that fair? I am at the border line of saying Yoshi-P does not understand what goes on if he cannot see why people dislike seeing DPS needing these split second tight rotations while healer gets easy mode.

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In every MMORPG there are classes that are easier to play, and classes that are harder to play.

That's simply because there are people who enjoy challenge, and people who don't, and different classes are designed to appeal to different people.

Even among DPS there are jobs that are much easier than others.

https://media.tenor.com/images/54451...d53c/tenor.gif

Now that even the head of the game thinks this. Maybe that will finally end this tiring debate once and for all.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

SNIP

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You obviously did not watch the video. Yoshi P made it quite clear to Mr. Happy on the message he was trying to convey. You either want to ignore that or just didn't want to see it yourself!

Is it totally mandatory? Not really... no.

Would I be bored not doing anything because no one is hurt enough it heal? I would be lying if I said "no". To each their own.

At the very least throwing occasional DoTs makes the run go even a tiny bit faster.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.

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This.

FF14 is a multiplayer game. "How to play" is decided by game design.

Would anyone not shoot with a medic in Call of Duty, if the producer or director says "Medics are intended to mostly heal, using your gun is optional" or would anyone not say "Well... stupid design to give them a gun and enough time to use it"?

The world explodes.

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Originally Posted by TorchicEX

Even then, people are prone to screwing up once in a while. That can catch a healer off guard and have to immediately swap back to heal them. Besides I did say that I help DPS when it is needed. You passed that off like it didn't matter.

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Probably because there's never a time DPS is not needed. Only healing is capped. There are simply GCDs where DPS is needed less than healing. The idea that DPS is a side-function is what's problematic. Primary output is always the primary function. It's just that derivatives may be more efficient. But, their opportunities are capped, whereas direct output never is. We use whatever's most efficient.

Tactics left be, healing a person and thereby preventing their death extends their average DPS for a greater duration and thereby total. In the few globals it takes to keep someone alive, this will almost always outweigh your own direct contribution. Even if your potential DPS were identical, you are maintaining twice that DPS with only a fraction of the time spent.

That's what support is—where the indirect influence on outputs exceeds direct influence in efficiency. That's why tanks and healers in this game are so powerful per party member slot. But these opportunites for support are also capped. You cannot support, let alone to maximum efficiency, with 100% of your GCDs. For the remainder, you're limited to direct output.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

In every MMORPG there are classes that are easier to play, and classes that are harder to play.

That's simply because there are people who enjoy challenge, and people who don't, and different classes are designed to appeal to different people.

Even among DPS there are jobs that are much easier than others.

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And what game have you ever heard of when a producer is saying it is ok for one class role can push a button once a minute while DPS/tank roles need a 50 + APM or so? This thread and statement rather is an insult to all those that try their best seeing "it is ok to be lazy"

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

Stone III
Aero IV
Holy
Gravity
Combust II
Malefic III
Lord of Crowns
Shadow Flare
Bio II
Broil II
Bane
Shadow Flare

You could create an entirely new DPS class using all of the 4.0 Healer skills/spells that are not "mandatory." Must feel great to have two hot bars instead of three.

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lol

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

You obviously did not watch the video. Yoshi P made it quite clear to Mr. Happy on the message he was trying to convey. You either want to ignore that or just didn't want to see it yourself!

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The only ignoring going on is you not reading my posts and making this thread knowing a fight will happen.

You have not responded to my main point yet.

Honestly if you are a healer and you catch a chance to throw a few stones go for it. If you are worried you will screw up the stance dance. don't dance. You still do damage without the switch, just not as much. Or as much as someone who does do the dance. But it's better than standing around picking your nose. I'm not picky. ;)

Yes Healers have the ability to DPS. But they are not full fledged DPS. There is a reason why they added more stats to make the DPS difference between healers and DPS/tanks bigger. Tanks get Tenacity which can both up their damage and lower what they take, DPS get Direct Hit which increases their damage like a smaller crit and also stacks with crit.

Healers are not meant to be DPS heavy people and Yoshi understands that for some people it is too much for some people which is why he emphasizes the point that it isn't mandatory, yes of course people can do it but they aren't obligated to. Red Mage has the ability to cure effectively well (surprisingly) but they aren't obligated to heal us because of it. Don't force your ideals on someone who doesn't want to or isn't capable of thinking that far in advance. Believe Yoshi-P who understands that not everyone is the same and tries to make it fair for everyone but can't win because people view it just like this.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

And what game have you ever heard of when a producer is saying it is ok for one class role can push a button once a minute while DPS/tank roles need a 50 + APM or so? This thread and statement rather is an insult to all those that try their best seeing "it is ok to be lazy"

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Nope. It says "it's ok to do your job."

Is this debate as strong in the japanese forums? I just want to know.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

This.

FF14 is a multiplayer game. "How to play" is decided by game design.

Would anyone not shoot with a medic in Call of Duty, if the producer or director says "Medics are intended to mostly heal, using your gun is optional" or would anyone not say "Well... stupid design to give them a gun and enough time to use it"?

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Yet again both of these points are mute. A healer heals...a tank tanks and a DPS is to DPS. Anything above that in your opinion, NOTHING ELSE! FF14 has a very specific way it was designed.....even if you want to ignore the facts about it. That is all that needs to be said...NEXT!

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Now that even the head of the game thinks this. Maybe that will finally end this tiring debate once and for all.

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Actually this has been the company line since 2.0. Healer DPS was NEVER accounted for in any battle content, it was basically supposed to be good enough that those who wanted to only play healer classes/jobs could do the solo content without issue. That said they also aren't against healer DPS, and if SB enemy damage output is comparable to ARR and HW ones then you won't find any top-tier raiders are those approaching such that don't have their Healers using their damage skills.

Outside of what I'm qouting, why do Healers get a "free pass" on this? It isn't really that they do, but rather that their damage output doesn't have a hard direct effect on their healing. DPS have to DPS because otherwise they aren't doing their job at all. Tanks do DPS because outside of Flash and Provoke all of their hate generation comes from damage the enemy. And the amount of people who want Flash to do damage says enough about how well Flash does on its own to keep hate. Healing (mostly) does no damage, and thus truly is secondary for the role.

As someone who isn't nearly a good enough healer for even trials though, only healing can be boring up until I also start doing some damage. Because as the quote goes, "ALWAYS be casting!"

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

That yet again for both new players and Veteran...DPS IS NOT MANDATORY FOR HEALERS! To state otherwise is nothing more than your opinion....not fact or intended game design!

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Ok, so if dps is not mandatory for healers, then i will choose as a tank to stop dpsing, if i will be far ahead in my aggro next time.
My Job as a tank is to hold aggro and lower incoming damage for me and the rest of the group.
So it is ok for you, if i will be lazy and do nothing but 1-2-3 Combo every 30 secs to hold aggro?
Why you tolerate a lazy healer, who do nothing but heal (mostly overheal) and go dance in no damage phases?
Will you tolerate the lazy tank too? I think i wouldnt tolerate that tank.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Nope. It says "it's ok to do your job."

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And some people get paid more to do less work than you do. That's life.
Oh and some people are much smarter than 'you'(as in the reader) as well, making better gameplay decisions with less brain power.(or the exact opposite{not as smart})
If you truly think a healer should heal and dps; why dont you think a paladin should tank, dps, and pass out stoneskins/protects and heal everyone? Just because its part of the toolkit, that doesnt make it required. It also does not make it "lazy"
Also seeing as people are saying why is it fair healers do less.. Well, If you f$#k up as a healer we ALL die. So uh.. maybe thats why? Its optional.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

In every MMORPG there are classes that are easier to play, and classes that are harder to play.

That's simply because there are people who enjoy challenge, and people who don't, and different classes are designed to appeal to different people.

Even among DPS there are jobs that are much easier than others.

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But those "easy to play" classes aren't made "easy" through community acceptance of opportunity cost from something as blatant as NOT DOING ANYTHING.

There's a difference between reduced skill dependence, such as a nonetheless long-ranged or immobile weapon in an FPS being balanced around a high spread, wherein accuracy is devalued, and someone literally being told they can drop their controller for a few seconds every dozen. There is no class design short of massive resource insufficiency that can warrant the latter, or, for that matter, healers not healing in such a healing-unintensive environment as the majority of XIV.

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

If you truly think a healer should heal and dps; why dont you think a paladin should tank, dps, and pass out stoneskins/protects and heal everyone? Just because its part of the toolkit, that doesn't make it required.
Also seeing as people are saying why is it fair healers do less.. Well, If you f$#k up as a healer we ALL die. So uh.. maybe thats why? Its optional.

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Many of these analogies are irrelevant, or warrant the opposite of what you seem to be arguing for.

For tanking and dpsing:

Paladins tank and dps simultaneously not because they're doubling up on roles, but because they can. There is no opportunity cost for simply DPSing as a tank; they can be done simultaneously. In the same way, there is no opportunity cost apart from mild mana use for DPSing as a healer when no one needs to be a curative/protective GCD spent on them in the given global(s). (And do not say, "But they'll need to be shielded/HoTed in preparation for the next GCD or two!" In that case they NEED that GCD.)

A tank, however, has multiple degrees of DPS vs. mitigation potential to decide between, increasing ones DPS potential as a tank costs eHP and curative efficiency, thereby decreasing healer DPS by the accumulation of specific healer GCD choices affected, and picking whichever of the two choices is more efficient. A healer does not. A healer either DPSes in a given global or they do anything else.

As for casting Stoneskin, Protect, and Clemency:

The Paladin isn't expected to Stoneskin not because he's a non-healer, but because of the opportunity cost involved. All casts break combos. He stands to waste 500 to 520 potency from casting a Stoneskin during the third tier of a combo. If there's no one else to prevent a death or massive debuff that a Stoneskin could prevent, he should do so. But since he stands far more to lose than either healer, he's the last resort.

The same is true of Clemency. At present if running more than a 2.42 GCD, any cast may neglect a tick of Goring Blade. Delays to auto-attacks cost further potency, increased by approximately two-thirds in Sword Oath. As of Stormblood, it will have the opportunity cost of a 504 relative potency damaging cast. Seeing as his Clemency potency no more than a 600-potency healer-class heal, yet no healer can even create half that potency of damage in a global, the opportunity cost again makes it optimal for the Paladin to use a given opportunity for Holy Spirit, rather than for Clemency. Should, however, someone need to be saved at a time in which only the Paladin is capable, then he should save them. Should a healer still stand, however, the issue remains that combos drop upon the start of a cast; should the PLD notice that the healer actually will be able to heal in time 5% into the cast, he's still lost 1-2 GCDs of uptime plus the portion of the cast and however long latency takes to return his cancelled GCD.

Prior to HW, if running at a 2.4 GCD or lower and provided he can finish his combo first and no SCH present, a Paladin should be the one to cast Protect, in order to save the healers the negligible amount of mana that, for him, is infinite, because it cost him a mere 180 potency (1/3rd of a RA combo - the GB tick he otherwise would have clipped), compared to the 220 or greater per-GCD potency (CS included) of an AST or 230 or greater of a WHM, and because he has essentially infinite mana anyways. Should Flight or Flight be active, however, then it again becomes optimal for the healer to cast instead. And as of Stormblood, this would again badly diminish the PLD's DPS at any time.

Because of all these different considerations by which opportunity cost for the Paladin almost always exceeds opportunity cost for healers, healers tend to cover these functions instead. Not because it's their role, but because their toolkit makes it less disadvantageous.

...

While that may sound complex or class-specific, the principle is not: We do what is most efficient.

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Originally Posted by Malkomia

Ok, so if dps is not mandatory for healers, then i will choose as a tank to stop dpsing, if i will be far ahead in my aggro next time.
My Job as a tank is to hold aggro and lower incoming damage for me and the rest of the group.
So it is ok for you, if i will be lazy and do nothing but 1-2-3 Combo every 30 secs to hold aggro?
Why you tolerate a lazy healer, who do nothing but heal (mostly overheal) and go dance in no damage phases?
Will you tolerate the lazy tank too? I think i wouldnt tolerate that tank.

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It does not matter what I tolerate or what you tolerate....those are both mine and yours opinion!
You have a right to voice yours and I have a right to voice mine, but Yoshi P is the game director and whatever he puts into the game is exactly how it was designed to be played as. Even you do not like it and you try to put some "O as long as the tank has aggro he should just stand there" to make your opinion correct....it isn't based that but on one simple fact, WE ARE NOT THE GAME DESIGNERS OR THE GAME DIRECTORS THAT CHOOSES HOW THE GAME IS TO BE PLAYED! We are players....nothing more needs to be said....next!

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

And some people get paid more to do less work than you do. That's life.
Oh and some people are much smarter than 'you'(as in the reader) as well, making better gameplay decisions with less the brain power.(or the exact opposite{not as smart})
If you truly think a healer should heal and dps; why dont you think a paladin should tank, dps, and pass out stoneskins/protects to everyone? Just because its part of the toolkit, that doesnt make it required. It also does not make it "lazy"
Also seeing as people are saying why is it fair healers do less.. Well, If you f$#k up as a healer we ALL die. So uh.. maybe thats why? Its optional.

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Thank you that is well said. He didn't say healers didn't have to DPS, just that they aren't required to DPS. They can do it to their hearts desire but content was made since 2.0 that healer DPS is not being required.

For me, I don't particularly care if the healer is DPSing or not, but they better be casting SOMETHING every chance they get. Just casting a heal every 5 seconds while jumping all over the damn place waiting for something to happen is quite frankly unacceptable. If I see that, they forfeit any right to complain about the performance of their own fellow party members, for if they aren't legitimately trying their hardest, what right do they have to expect the others to try their hardest for them?

This game rewards being proactive and efficient. I find that with the difficulty of most of the dungeons, I typically use my healing abilities in a way that lets me force open windows to DPS without any risk of anyone in the party dying. Even better if my damaging skills actually STOP enemies from hurting the tank too much, which is why I tend to favor WHM over the other two healers. What's better, letting those two slimes in Sohm Al HM explode and forcing you to cast Medica 1-2 times, making all of your party members panic a bit and costing you roughly ~2k MP to restore everyone's HP, or throwing out a Holy to damage everything AND interrupt their Blaze cast in the first place, which only costs ~1.5k MP with no damage to your party members' HP AND taking off a good chunk of enemy HP?

Sometimes, I wonder if people have forgotten how to be practical in this game. The concept of DPSing is consistently framed as a selfish thing, but I see it as helping other people help you. (Of course, that's also why I tend to main Bard too.)

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Originally Posted by Hikuras

Is this debate as strong in the japanese forums? I just want to know.

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Not from what I've ever seen, no. Like, not even a thing.

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Originally Posted by Malkomia

My Job as a tank is to hold aggro and lower incoming damage for me and the rest of the group.

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What? No, no it's not. Your job is to hold the monster's attention. The healers are the ones who need to watch your HP. Don't hit any defensive cooldowns, dodge anything except instant kill mechanics, or worry about the rest of the group's well-being. Your defensive cooldowns exist solely to help you in open world content to complete the main story quests.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Yet again both of these points are mute. A healer heals...a tank tanks and a DPS is to DPS. Anything above that in your opinion, NOTHING ELSE! FF14 has a very specific way it was designed.....even if you want to ignore the facts about it. That is all that needs to be said...NEXT!

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All what matters is that people can be kicked out of every party finder group as soon as the party creator wants it. It's intended and designed that way (and you can't report someone kicking you out of group. Party creator is even allowed to say "play job X or you have to go".).

How much does Yoshi-P's opinion count here?

And of course when even the game director says it's not mandatory, people resort to being childish about the situation instead of just ending it..

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

All what matters is that people can be kicked out of every party finder group as soon as the party creator wants it. It's intended and designed that way (and you can't report someone kicking you out of group. Party creator is even allowed to say "play job X or you have to go".).

How much does Yoshi-P's opinion count here?

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I guess not much according to you since he is only the Game Director and final decision maker....but whatever right.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

And of course when even the game director says it's not mandatory, people resort to being childish about the situation instead of just ending it..

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Yoshida also thought that the 2.0 warrior was fine, effectively telling people to "git gud" despite the fact warrior was measurably worse than paladin. He signed off on bowmages. He agreed to Diadem. The man is not infallible.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

And of course when even the game director says it's not mandatory, people resort to being childish about the situation instead of just ending it..

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I wish I knew how to end it. But this is a forum, so people can bellyache all day because something doesn't agree with them.

Also love the RWBY clip.