{PUBLIC SERVICE ANOUCEMENT} Unfair Party Dismissal

LOOT AND SCOOT

You asked for a transfer refund, because you got kicked from a party?

That makes perfect sense!

All mogstatuon purchases are final, it tells you this when you accept them.

Also, differences in playstyle is valid for a kick, and you cant expect the world to bow to you because you had an idea.

There is a strategy everyone ises for divebombs because it is the most effective

Since I highly doubt you got into T5 via the DF, premade parties are well within their rights to kick you for any reason they want. If you did get in via the DF difference in playstyles is a valid reason to kick. In either case, the majority of the party probably agreed with the kick so wasting supports time with it really isn't justified. What was the alternative strategy you suggested? If I may ask?

I'm gonna just tell you right now, people can kick you from their parties for whatever reason they choose. I'm also not sure what you buying a world transfer has to do with being kicked from a party or why you think square enix should refund you for a service they provided as per your request.

SE's customer service may not be the best, but this isn't an example of them being incompetent it's an example of you not understanding how mmos work.

What was unfair about it? It was put to the vote, and the majority no longer wished you to be in the party for one reason or another. You should just accept that instead of making forum posts about it.

Nope, devs have said that kicking for differences in playstyle is valid. Theres a post on the forums if you want to dig it up, its buried pretty far back. Also, why would anyone use dutyfinder for coil these days? Heck, even when it was still newly added to DF, people still failed at t5.

Difference in playstyle is not a reason athty ou can select in the window when you vote someone out, that is correct.
It is however a reason that is accepted by the GMs, so no, the kick was not unjust - did they even tell you why you were removed?

In any case your whole "I want my transfer refunded now because the people here are mean!" is outright silly. Its not SEs power to ensure that you transfer to a server with nice, cuddley people. Report them, if you feel that your removal was unjust and have the GMs look into it (and if they determine that the kick was indeed unjust punish them). But asking for a refund for a service that you paid because you dont like the outcome now... thats just silly.
Sounds a bit like ordering food that you dont know in a restaurant, eating half of it and then deciding that you dont like it and will there for refuse to pay for it. SE gave you what you paid for: a transfer to the world you picked. That you dont like this world now because of one bad experience is really not their responsibility and you cant hold them liable for that. Seriously, it sounds as if you're trying to cheat yourself a free transfer here...

I'm sorry you had a dick party but if they were a pug then its to be expected. you'll have better luck with a planned group with some advanced notice.

Troll and if not well there's your problem right there, I have said that many times to people that ask, Leviathan is not a server were you should be coming for carries or clears, that includes any kind of content (outdated/up to date) Primal is different from EU or Aether data center, but on Levi it's even 5x worse then let's say Excalibur. Learn your lesson next time and do some research, would have probably helped to avoid that issue. Same goes for the primal DF.

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

Yes, it was a party made via the DF, waited a couple of hours for it too I might add. I suggested that we do the stack and ditch strategy, to stack in the ditch and then run back up when the green icon appears instead of randomly scattered across the room. I might be wrong, but I don't think "Playstyle" was one of the valid reasons in the member dismissal window. To my understanding, if the reason was any other than "AFK, harassment, cheating or offline" the dismissal would be considered as unjust.

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That's the strategy most groups use, so it's strange that the group you were in wasn't already doing that. Regardless, though, I'd suggest not using DF for Coil - instead it's a better idea to use PF as you can set all the specifics you want and everyone goes in on the same page. With DF you're basically rolling the dice and hoping that everyone's on the same page, which has a high chance of not being the case. In 4man stuff it doesn't really matter since that content is tuned so ridiculously low, but anything that requires any level of coordination is usually better done w/ PF.

Yeah I straight up don't believe you queued up solo for it in DF and got in, no offense. That being said, GMs have stated multiple times that "playstyle differences" is a valid reason to kick. You got kicked for a reason only the kickers know. Oh well, it happens.

If you really want to get coils done just put up a party finder and do it unsynced

/bait thread

Is that a JoJo reference goodbye thread? Well then good bye! Would be more simple to put it this way. It's just 2 words, shorter than an entire post!

These slow days before the expansion. Boredom takes the forums and we get all these dumb threads.

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

Either way, I think it is the customer support's duty to at least address the paying subscriber's issue like an actual person, not just flood the person's chat with pre-written stock responses that patronizes the user with the promise of a "serious investigation". Customer service 101

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And what would you want them to say instead of "We're sorry you had this unpleasent experience and we will look into it?"

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Is that a JoJo reference goodbye thread? Well then good bye! Would be more simple to put it this way. It's just 2 words, shorter than an entire post!

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He just want attention. Shouldn't even made a post to begin with. If he want to ragequit the game let him. Why making a cry me a river post?

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

If indeed what everyone on the forum has been saying is true that playstyle is a valid reason then the answer should simply be"Sorry you had an unpleasant experience but a difference of playstyle is a valid reason for dismissal." That is what I call addressing the issue, if you are going to take the time to contact the person might as well do your job properly.

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You're right, I would have banned you right away, for wasting my time if you came in my chat and would have said, mommy player A kicked me and I don't know why, do something! So why you're not just happy that the person didn't do their job "properly" as you've stated, and go back to playing the game, instead of sitting on the forums complaining about some bs.

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

If indeed what everyone on the forum has been saying is true that playstyle is a valid reason then the answer should simply be"Sorry you had an unpleasant experience but a difference of playstyle is a valid reason for dismissal." That is what I call addressing the issue, if you are going to take the time to contact the person might as well do your job properly.

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First rule of customer service is to get to your customers ASAP regardless of whether you have an actual solution at the time or not. The response you got back was automated. It was essentially "we got your message but it might take us a minute to get to your issue. Please be patient."

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

He just want attention. Shouldn't even made a post to begin with. If he want to ragequit the game let him. Why making a cry me a river post?

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He probably want glamour to be gender unlocked.

/kappa

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

You're right, I would have banned you right away, for wasting my time if you came in my chat and would have said, mommy player A kicked me and I don't know why, do something! So why you're not just happy that the person didn't do their job "properly" as you've stated, and go back to playing the game, instead of sitting on the forums complaining about some bs.

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Chill out a bit.

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

The first reply was automated, the ensuing "conversation" of my replies and their stock responses was not. The GM even contacted me in-game only to provide me with the same pre-written stock responses and asked if I had any more inquiries to which I said yes and they ignored.

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Ofc they ignored you there - you were trying to hold them liable for something that they're not liable for - did you noticed that half the people here assumed you're trolling (and I'm not sure if they're not actually right about that)? As a GM I would have figured the same - either that or they're not allowed to talk to you anymore as soon as you bring stuff like that up. They told you everything they had to - that is: "We'll look into this matter to see if the kick was unjust or not". What else is there to say?

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

The first reply was automated, the ensuing "conversation" of my replies and their stock responses was not. The GM even contacted me in-game only to provide me with the same pre-written stock responses and asked if I had any more inquiries to which I said yes and they ignored.

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Idk if you know this because it doesn't seem like you've actually worked in customer service before, but, we have scripts we generally have to follow. We can be punished for deviating from them too much.

From your previous post, your follow up inquiry was "can I have a refund for this mogstation service?" The answer is no. They tell you this several times before you make the purchase. A GM doesn't need to tell you that and I'm pretty sure that's not under a general in-game GM's jurisdiction.

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

To my understanding a GM's role is to be an officiant for questions regarding the rules, it is well within their job description to answer such inquiries. I dont believe its right for someone whos job is to answer questions about the rules to ignore a question regarding the rule.

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Question is: Did you asked them to answer a question (like "Is it possible to get a refund?") or were you demanding said refund? You seem to think you're entitled to that refund because you dont like your new server, when its pretty clear that the policy on the mog-station is "no refunds". They did their job properly by telling you "We will look into the issue with the kick". Their job is player-player-interaction or handeling problems with the game (like a bug-report), not refunding mog-station purchases. And again, specially if you were demanding a refund their protocol might require them to shut you down.

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

They have the obligation to atleast provide me a response to say that it is not possible under company policy instead of ignoring it completely.

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They answered your question about eight different times before you asked it. If you skipped over the terms and conditions, that's on you.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Also, differences in playstyle is valid for a kick

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No it's not a valid reason. Mature adults discuss the possibility and collectively decide if it is okay to switch strategies or not. Then if not they respectfully thank the player for their input but inform them they will be using the original strategy for whatever reason.

If the player whom had the idea then proceeds to be immature for not getting his way and does not comply with the rest of the team then he may only then be kicked.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

No it's not a valid reason. Mature adults discuss the possibility and collectively decide if it is okay to switch strategies or not. Then if not they respectfully thank the player for their input but inform them they will be using the original strategy for whatever reason.

If the player whom had the idea then proceeds to be immature for not getting his way and does not comply with the rest of the team then he may only then be kicked.

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Oh, I didn't know SE specified all that. Can you link a source for this?

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Oh, I didn't know SE specified all that. Can you link a source for this?

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I'm curious too, especially the "respectfully thank the player for their input" bit.

Besides, if they were having trouble with divebombs, then that party would never have gotten through twisters/dreadknight and the last phase lol. Even if the last phase is the easy part.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

No it's not a valid reason. Mature adults discuss the possibility and collectively decide if it is okay to switch strategies or not.

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You might not think its a "valid reason" - from the point of the GMs its a legit reason though. And thats, as good or bad we might consider it, what counts here - you can "legally" remove a person if their playstyle differs from the one the party expects.

You also never know the reason you've been kicked, unless the party tells you that they're going to kick you for excatly that - if that doesnt happen you're left with assumptions (and honestly often enough you'll find that the person complaining about being unrightfully kicked actually did gave their party a reason to remove them - we're never getting to hear the full story, and if its a one sided one thats being told...) In this case the party might aswell have realised that they're not able to clear the content and wanted to get without the 30 minute penalty - so they kicked one person so everyone could leave. Or even if OP feels they expressed the change in strategy in a polite way, the party didnt felt that way (I remember giving advice in a very neutral tone once - and someone got a bit upset by that. And even if I considered that a little petty, I still understood that I might have come off rude, even if that wasnt my intend). Or OP suggested the stragety, the party decided they didnt wanted to follow and only OP did and somehow wiped them by differing there... or, or, or - we dont know.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Oh, I didn't know SE specified all that. Can you link a source for this?

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Either you were raised right with morals or you weren't. Square has little to do with that

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

Either you were raised right with morals or you weren't. Square has little to do with that

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Then kicking for different play styles is a valid reason. Whether or not it is morally correct, doesn't directly affect whether or not it is a valid reason; SE determines whether or not it is a valid reason.

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

Where is the official in-game documents that specifies that playstyle difference were grounds for dismissal? Or is that a word of mouth kinda thing?

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Here's the picture that was posted on the forums quite a whiles back of a GM responding to a player ticket:

http://i.imgur.com/Nayxfr8.jpg

Just because you can do something and receive no punishment for it doesn't mean you should do it. This is basic stuff people.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

Just because you can do something and receive no punishment for it doesn't mean you should do it. This is basic stuff people.

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Yeah. Like posting a ragequit thread on the forums because they weren't given a refund on a non-refundable purchase that says that more than once in more than one place? Trying to be holier than thou on the forums in a thread where the OP was in the wrong is just silly. We don't know the whole situation, this is just half a story.

When you report people they wont rush to check their logs to see if there was an abuse, they tell you they will investigate, contact you again if they need to confirm information, then do the full investigation, you're complaining that they didn't tell you the outcome of the investigation the second you asked before they even began checking what happened. No they can't tell you "we don't accept your report because it was a valid kick" when they don't know if it was a valid kick without checking their logs.

Second, having one single bad experience in Primal doesn't mean anything, vote kicks happen in every data center, just move on and stop being so fragile, for a vote kick to go through the majority has to agree, and they did.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

Just because you can do something and receive no punishment for it doesn't mean you should do it. This is basic stuff people.

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I tried that common sense thing a while back, it isn't well received in game as well as the forums... You need to join them.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

Just because you can do something and receive no punishment for it doesn't mean you should do it. This is basic stuff people.

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Should is subjective and not the question asked. Kicking for differing play styles is a valid reason. OP was removed from the party by a majority vote. No one cheated or purposely or maliciously disrupt his gameplay. That's it.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

Just because you can do something and receive no punishment for it doesn't mean you should do it. This is basic stuff people.

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Doesn't change the fact that it is still a valid reason to kick due to difference in play style. This is common in MMO culture to begin with and really should be an accepted fact at this point.

Honestly, it is one of the more civil outcomes when compared to the otherwise likely possibility of reconciliation failing and the harassment rule getting breached, considering the innate toxicity of an online gaming community.

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Originally Posted by ieyasu63

If the kick feature is indeed intended to be used in this manner (a difference of playstyle as they put it), why would they list the reasons as "offline, afk, harassment, cheating and unjustified dismissal are punishable" in the official window. If this is the case one can argue nothing can be considered as unfair dismissal. I would go as far as to say this would give them an out to save themselves some work and not investigate any complaints regarding dismissal at all.

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Not sure why they haven't added it in. Maybe it would just be more trouble to do so than to just continue in the current manner.

Also, you're right that if the appropriate steps are taken, nothing can be considered as unfair dismissal. It is just how things work, and you just have to live with it.

Not being able to kick for difference in play style would likely cause more problems than it would solve; gamers can be rather stubborn.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

Just because you can do something and receive no punishment for it doesn't mean you should do it. This is basic stuff people.

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Punishment for initiating a vote and the majority ruling?

For everyone saying you can kick for whatever you want, I point you to red text:
https://i.gyazo.com/1244ed802c7babb4...ec2fd4b3d9.png

for the OP it is weird, you can't really ask for refunds from mog station, it says you cant.

I been wondering, why have options if it really does not mean anything?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

For everyone saying you can kick for whatever you want, I point you to red text:
https://i.gyazo.com/1244ed802c7babb4...ec2fd4b3d9.png

for the OP it is weird, you can't really ask for refunds from mog station, it says you cant

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But it was still a majority rules situation. The red text is for when someone harasses you before kicking you, not just because of a different play style.

Example I guess: I can't kick you for playing summoner. I can kick you for playing dotless summoner.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

But it was still a majority rules situation. The red text is for when someone harasses you before kicking you, not just because of a different play style.

Example I guess: I can't kick you for playing summoner. I can kick you for playing dotless summoner.

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I was not debating that, just the people saying you can kick for ANYTHING.

also why are there options anyway?