Votekick reloaded

As long as DF is random matching, it does not need have votekick but just duty abort option, while votekick still have sense in PF, when you find out players are not what they are meant to be.

No. It's fine the way it is for a myriad of reasons that should not need to be explained.

Please don't break things for everyone just because a handful of people on non-Japanese servers cannot get along with one another :(

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Please don't break things for everyone just because a handful of people on non-Japanese servers cannot get along with one another :(

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Haha :) This.

No, there should be a way to remove problematic players without abandoning the entire instance.

So we went from heal dps to playstyle to kicks.

This forum had more twists than a mystery movie.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

No, there should be a way to remove problematic players without abandoning the entire instance.

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This is the base of the problem. People go in a random matched party but they want it matched the way they like it.

Create a pug without the pug's drawbacks, has it any sense?

Then the so-called "problematic" people shows up at the start, right? Hardly I can imagine you will carry a problematic player up to the final boss, just to kick him out at that time.

If pug goes wrong, make another. Kicking people until you get all the ones you like I think it is wrong.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

This is the base of the problem. People go in a random matched party but they want it matched the way they like it.

Create a pug without the pug's drawbacks, has it any sense?

Then the so-called "problematic" people shows up at the start, right? Hardly I can imagine you will carry a problematic player up to the final boss, just to kick him out at that time.

If pug goes wrong, make another. Kicking people until you get all the ones you like I think it is wrong.

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What if you get a troll that doesn't do anything (Look at Diadem that has no kick, people leech rewards)? Do we just leave and get a 30 minute penalty? Do we dump the party and spend another 20 minutes in queue. Sorry nope.

I'm not talking about poor performing players that are trying, I'm talking about actual trolls, leechers and general people you probably don't want to play with.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

This is the base of the problem. People go in a random matched party but they want it matched the way they like it.

Then the so-called "problematic" people shows up at the start, right? Hardly I can imagine you will carry a problematic player up to the final boss, just to kick him out at that time.

If pug goes wrong, make another. Kicking people until you get all the ones you like I think it is wrong.

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1) Vote abort is only available after 15 minutes - so you want to carry the problematic player to the last boss and then abort the mission alltogether so that the three people who were trying to get through dont get a reward either?

2) The purpose of DF is to make sure that we all can get through our dungeons - yes, its true that you have to deal with not having full control over the people you get paired with, but that doesnt mean we should put up with everything and everyone. Why shouldnt we remove an obvious troll, a person who harrasses us, someone who makes finishing the dungeon impossible or maybe even a bot?

3) Looking at the current system we can kick some after 5 minute, but need to wait 15 minutes to abort the mission - and I can see why: Isnt it prefered to remove the person who troubles the run so the other three have a chance to finish it?

4) Abuse of the vote kick system can and should be reported

5) Premade parties dont have the kick option in the first place (funny enough that you dont know that...) and cant recruite new members either while in the duty (unless they changed that since a friend of mine had to rush his friend to the hospital and we were waiting for the autokick because he left his character in the dungeon - just to discover that we cant search for a replacement). So if you're in a PF, you'll have to leave the dungeon anyways to find someone new.

If you want to play how you want - why not look for 3 friends who will tolerate that and go into a dungeon with them?

TLDR.: No, dont remove the kick function, its very useful when used correctly

I'm also curious now why OP is so salty about it and why they've possibly be kicked so many times they want to take our tool to remove trolls, bots and people who endanger our runs away...

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Please don't break things for everyone just because a handful of people on non-Japanese servers cannot get along with one another :(

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"A handful" is very optimistic...

So instead of just kicking a troll or because you didn't get the people you would have picked you want everyone to abort and re-queue?

I rather have it the way it is.

Edit: Also this.

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Originally Posted by Rinari

I'm not sure where people keep finding these terrible parties so often that they find it a significant issue. Only people I've ever had vote kicked in a party were disconnects after 5+ minutes of not being around. Sometimes I get totally new players or just plain bad players that don't do so well, but it's rare, and people generally try to help or at least tolerate a less than ideal run. I've never even had someone so bad that we couldn't finish the dungeon. DF in FFXIV has been a very positive experience overall.

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I'm not sure where people keep finding these terrible parties so often that they find it a significant issue. Only people I've ever had vote kicked in a party were disconnects after 5+ minutes of not being around. Sometimes I get totally new players or just plain bad players that don't do so well, but it's rare, and people generally try to help or at least tolerate a less than ideal run. I've never even had someone so bad that we couldn't finish the dungeon. DF in FFXIV has been a very positive experience overall.

If queues were instant, this might be slightly, slightly understandable. But they're not. Sometimes DPS have to wait over 20-30 minutes just to get into an instance one time, and now you're telling them they should just completely abandon and try again if something bad happens? :/ The result would be that no one would initiate abandons except for tanks who can get instant queues. We definitely do not need this.

Furthermore, this is a punishment to the other people in the party who might be just fine and not deserved to be kicked. Why should three people have to quit because one person is bad?

"Problematic" people might be obvious right from the start, but they often don't "earn" a kick until later in the dungeon, when they ignore advice, cause a wipe, react rudely toward their fellow players, etc. I've never seen a kick happen in the first five minutes of a dungeon. Hell, I don't even know if it's possible to kick in the first 5-10 minutes of a dungeon. And by then, you're typically already well into the instance. Why should your hard work be wasted because someone else plays poorly? That's illogical.

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Originally Posted by Rinari

I'm not sure where people keep finding these terrible parties so often that they find it a significant issue. Only people I've ever had vote kicked in a party were disconnects after 5+ minutes of not being around. Sometimes I get totally new players or just plain bad players that don't do so well, but it's rare, and people generally try to help or at least tolerate a less than ideal run. I've never even had someone so bad that we couldn't finish the dungeon. DF in FFXIV has been a very positive experience overall.

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It does happen rarely, indeed - but each time it happend to me, I was very thankful we could remove the person in question - wether they were harrassing, afking every minute for another two or extremly incompetent (...thinking about that conjurer in Sastasha NM that wouldnt cast a single cure, forcing both dps and me as paladin to crossclass it so we could get through the dungeon...)

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

Hell, I don't even know if it's possible to kick in the first 5-10 minutes of a dungeon. And by then, you're typically already well into the instance. Why should your hard work be wasted because someone else plays poorly? That's illogical.

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You can only kick someone after 5 minutes have passed - the reason behind that is indeed to give that person a chance to prove themself first - so yes, you're totally right: if someone uses this 5 minutes to leave such a bad impression that the rest rather waits for a replacment they probably earned the kick

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Originally Posted by Rinari

I'm not sure where people keep finding these terrible parties so often that they find it a significant issue. Only people I've ever had vote kicked in a party were disconnects after 5+ minutes of not being around. Sometimes I get totally new players or just plain bad players that don't do so well, but it's rare, and people generally try to help or at least tolerate a less than ideal run. I've never even had someone so bad that we couldn't finish the dungeon. DF in FFXIV has been a very positive experience overall.

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My experience with DF is that there are rarely problems that require a kick. I agree it's usually more so because of a disconnect or someone afk'ing during the duty. I don't think I've ever seen a duty where someone was kicked because of playstyle such as a healer not dps'ing etc. This forum is far from representative of what I've experienced in the actual game and I have over 6100 dungeon/instanced duties on my main alone.

Imagine if you were playing 72-man Shatter and one group got the entire match abandoned because they couldn't force a single AFKer to leave :s

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

"A handful" is very optimistic...

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Hey, I have big hands. But more seriously, I sometimes think people on these forums are playing a completely different game to me. I'm not even particularly good but I never encounter this level of drama anywhere in my datacenter.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

But more seriously, I sometimes think people on these forums are playing a completely different game to me. I'm not even particularly good but I never encounter this level of drama anywhere in my datacenter.

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I don't see the kick being used that often either. Most of the time when people post about being kicked the entire story isn't there. Most of the time as far as I can tell the kick is used for AFK or offline people.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

it does not need have votekick but just duty abort option

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So if I go into a piece of DF content and only use my auto attack as a DPS and use none of my abilities...because I keep going AFK and not helping my group...
Or..if I go into a piece of DF content as a healer and not use any healing spells and keep letting them all die...

My group should be unable to kick me and they all have to quit the instance because of me and all have to wait in the queue line again which can be up to 30 minutes to even an hour depending on the content?

This is absolutely ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Hey, I have big hands. But more seriously, I sometimes think people on these forums are playing a completely different game to me. I'm not even particularly good but I never encounter this level of drama anywhere in my datacenter.

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I'm not surprised. The differences between EU/ NA and JP are pretty big, no matter what some players may choose to believe.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Please don't break things for everyone just because a handful of people on non-Japanese servers cannot get along with one another :(

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"non-Japanese servers" what =|
http://i.imgur.com/qlbBRkR.png

this "jp data centers are better than the rest of the world" thing is getting out of hand

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Originally Posted by Vidu

5) Premade parties dont have the kick option in the first place (funny enough that you dont know that...)..
I'm also curious now why OP is so salty about it ...

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Just shared my opinion on votekick as a feature and whoever disagree can do it. I feel laughning at OP (not you, talking generic) for having an opinion is not the right way to disagree, 'tho.

Will try to reason around your points:

1) is more about the waiting time for a disband. Here I can agree, 15 minutes are too much long and it happened to me too, it was excessive. And yes, only disband and after 15 minutes means have unwelcome guests all round until the end. Here you have a point and my suggestion can have sense only when that time reduced, to say, to a fair 5 minutes?

2) I disagree a bit here, you are pugging and you cannot decide which kind of players you want be paired with. Trolls and alike can happen, and always can be reported. We all hope reports gets some effects but cannot do more. A troll is a troll and I guess there is no magical checkbox "no trolls please" when queuing df.

3) goes as 1), we need 5 minutes and no more.

4) I agree.

5) I just said it makes sense. It needs be in PF because have much more sense, because have sense kick out people that are not who they needed to be, and going more far, it must be possible even when in combat. I hope not being too much funny expressing this opinion.

If I looks salty on it it is not intended. Just want share my opinion on this topic.

There are legitimate reasons to need to kick someone, such as when they are hindering the rest of the party or being abusive. I do think SE needs to solidify their policy on what's allowable. "Difference in playstyle" if the person is not being a hindrance or abusive absolutely shouldn't be allowed, and SE needs to codify that into the policy. If you want to set arbitrary requirements outside of what the duty finder requires, then use party finder to create a pre-made.

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Originally Posted by YISUG

this "jp data centers are better than the rest of the world" thing is getting out of hand

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No, what's getting out of hand are these ridiculous, melodramatic demands to cripple the game in ways which are only needed because a tiny subset of one demographic apparently cannot behave like sensible human beings. Of course there are good and bad players on both eastern and western worlds. But on my server, if someone is being a jerk everyone blacklists them until they can't do any content any more and quit (or learn from their mistakes, in an ideal world). The whole party gets involved in discussing any issues which arise, and problems are resolved with zero GM effort.

According to the forums - my only frame of reference - almost every Party Finder group has trolls sneaking in to leech clears, every DF group has elitists and casuals arguing over playstyles and racing to be the first to kick one another, and everyone is miserable 100% of the time they play. Other players aren't allies; they're enemies out to ruin your gaming experience unless you backstab them before they backstab you!

Can we please, as players, start taking responsibility for our own problems for once?

This kind of kneejerk reaction has completely destroyed the fun of the Feast even in communities where the problem never existed.

Every time I see one of these posts I cannot help but thinking it is the problematic players who do not want to pull their weight or learn their job and have been repeatedly vote kicked for it that make these kinds of posts. I have played this game since day 1 and have only been vote kicked a couple of times and they were deserved because I had dc'd.

But I have used the vote kick system many times to get rid of problematic ppl.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Just shared my opinion on votekick as a feature and whoever disagree can do it. I feel laughning at OP (not you, talking generic) for having an opinion is not the right way to disagree, 'tho.

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The problem with vote disband after 5 minutes is that it can be easly abused - if you dont get the roulette you wanted, you wait 5 minutes and try again. That was a huge issue when everyone was farming Brayflox HM for tomes - they might even have introduced it at that point. So thats not gonna happen.

And again: why should three people loose their (waiting) time and their place in queue because one person decided to not contribute to the run? Yes, sure, you can report someone whos trolling - but why not also have the easy way to remove that person immidiatly and go on with playing the game you're paying for after all?

I really dont understand why you want this feature removed, sorry. Again: Yes, pugging means you can get paired with anyone and if someone is kicked because of the job they're playing thats silly, but it happens so rarely that we dont need to remove this feature. Kicking someone because they're an ass, afk, DC'd or endager the run in any way is valid enough and happens often enough to keep this feature.

We ASKED for this to happen - I havent used it often myself but each time it helped the run to go smoothly and get finished. I dont see the problem.

And I'm still wondering why you thought about this "problem" at all and want a very helpful feature removed... I'm sorry but I cant help but imagine there is a story behind this. Why would someone who hasnt been kicked think "Oh, this feature that doesnt affect me in any negative way really has to go!"

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Originally Posted by Serilda

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i wasnt talking about any of what you just said
you said

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Please don't break things for everyone just because a handful of people on non-Japanese servers cannot get along with one another :(

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then you say

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Of course there are good and bad players on both eastern and western worlds

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what....and the whole thing about

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if someone is being a jerk everyone blacklists them until they can't do any content any more and quit (or learn from their mistakes, in an ideal world). The whole party gets involved in discussing any issues which arise, and problems are resolved with zero GM effort.

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lol , just stop

OP, removing the vote kick command would not fix anything, it would in fact make things worse for a lot of people.

Let's pretend you have a little DPS who is newish to the game, they're leveling their first character, don't really have any friends. They get to AV for the very first time and queue solo. After a painfully long wait, they get in. Healer says, "Ugh, not this run." And proceeds to sit down and not move. If it was the tank sitting there--with a confident healer, even just one good DPS, and small pulls--you could push your way through the dungeon, sure. But you won't be clearing any bosses without a healer. Why should this party have to vote abandon just because one person refuses to do anything and there is no way to remove them? How is that fair to people who are new and haven't made many friends yet, people who have returned after a long time away to find none of their friends play anymore? Those are people who use the DF the most because going with a 4/4 premade isn't always an option for everyone all the time. Not to mention not all roulettes can be done in parties (mentor and frontlines for example).

And what about other problem dungeons like the Aery or the Vault? Both of these dungeons have final bosses that make any issues within the party really obvious. Why should 3/4 people have to suffer through another queue, another 20-40min dungeon, just to get stuck at the final boss because one member cannot preform and there is no way to remove them other than to disband? I remember leveling my DRK and getting an Aery run with a DRG who only used Impulsive Drive. Nothing else. The other DPS in our party died to Sable because they weren't being freed and by the time the adds came out, they had double weakness. The healer is MP spent so they're not DPSing, the DRG is hitting like a limp noodle, the other DPS is trying his best with double weakness and I'm trying my best to DPS without taking too much damage so the healer can conserve some MP. But we could not meet the DPS check and the DRG wouldn't listen to any pointers. So they were removed, and we cleared with a new DPS the next try. I was actually in a Vault run today where we had to remove the healer at the final boss because they just could not keep up with the damage. It wasn't because the tank or my co-DPS weren't dodging, but this healer just wasn't able to handle AoE healing + healing the tank + moving out of AoEs. I'm not going to sit there and watch everyone's rotation so I can vote dismiss at the earliest signs of trouble, in both these instances the rest of us were able to preform well enough for the issues with our fourth member to go unnoticed until we needed to rely on their performance.

What about people who are intentionally trolling? Say you queue up for a 24man and you have like 3 members in your party on classes and they are just there to voke and kite the boss and kill as many people with cleaves and AoEs as possible. With a majority vote they can be removed, all of them if they are that much of a problem that 3 members are willing to dismiss. Why make 21 people suffer because of 3 people who can easily be removed? And leechers? (I personally haven't seen any in PvE content that I can remember, but I remember seeing them in PvP once in a while) Why should I let someone get away with auto running into a wall in 72man and collect their tomes and/or victory when they didn't help?

Yes, some people abuse the vote dismiss, but that's why it has a cooldown. It does NOT need removing, but it might need some adjusting. For example, make dismisses in a 4/4 party require 3/4 to approve the kick instead of 2/4 or make it so you can only dismiss one person everyday. Removing a function is not a solution, it is just creating another web of problems.

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Originally Posted by YISUG

lol , just stop

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I specifically said 'a handful of people' and cited precedent, but ok. Before you freak out with the #NotAllWesterners and reaction images, please clarify whether you want the ability to kick people removed or not. Whether it's accurate or not, the image of play as presented on the forums is a grave concern to those of us playing the chilled-out version of this game.

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Originally Posted by Rinari

I'm not sure where people keep finding these terrible parties so often that they find it a significant issue. Only people I've ever had vote kicked in a party were disconnects after 5+ minutes of not being around. Sometimes I get totally new players or just plain bad players that don't do so well, but it's rare, and people generally try to help or at least tolerate a less than ideal run. I've never even had someone so bad that we couldn't finish the dungeon. DF in FFXIV has been a very positive experience overall.

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This is the same for me as well. If someone finds themselves on a perpetual daily basis with bad DF experiences, maybe the problem isn't so much about other people than it is about themselves.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

According to the forums - my only frame of reference - almost every Party Finder group has trolls sneaking in to leech clears, every DF group has elitists and casuals arguing over playstyles and racing to be the first to kick one another, and everyone is miserable 100% of the time they play. Other players aren't allies; they're enemies out to ruin your gaming experience unless you backstab them before they backstab you!

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Well, I guess you wrote that as an exaggeration, but that is I were really witnessing every day.
Main Story duties with people kicked at first mistake, people that leaves duties as soon as they see a leaf or the duty is not welcome (AV, and some time ago SoF was king of it), main drama exploding over every little thing. What in the hell happened?
Only yesterday, a FC mate told me the tank left as soon as it entered duty, another one came and immediately gone afk to be kicked, then I joined in progress just to see there were two poor souls on their first run of the duty. It feels like I shifted to a parallel universe with black and white reversed.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Only yesterday, a FC mate told me the tank left as soon as it entered duty, another one came and immediately gone afk to be kicked, then I joined in progress just to see there were two poor souls on their first run of the duty. It feels like I shifted to a parallel universe with black and white reversed.

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And how is this fixed by removing the vote-kick? And dont tell me the second tank wouldnt have left too and eaten the penalty instead of insisting on a kick. Quite the opposite happend here: Tank who refused to cooperate got kicked, you got in, the two leafies got their dungeon done... mmmh... sounds as if... the vote-kick actually removed a bad apple and helped someone finish a run...?

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Originally Posted by YISUG

this "jp data centers are better than the rest of the world" thing is getting out of hand

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It's the truth, no matter how much you may not like to hear it; in terms of behaviour, attitude, and overall ability, JP is better than EU/ NA.

Can JP players be bad/ rude/ racist? Absolutely.

Does it mean that there aren't many skilled/ lovely players on our servers? Of course not.

But on average, they do have a more community-minded playerbase, and this reflects in their playing.

Taking the east-west comparison a bit farther, I feel like the problems LalaRu is seeing would be lessened if we took a leaf out of the JP approach and encouraged more use of Party Finder over DF for people still progressing through the game (which was recently suggested on these very forums by a player on an EN datacenter and deserves more Likes). If anything, S-E could address this further by lowering the rewards for roulettes (which inherently encourage speedrunning) and raising them for new player bonuses, while keeping kick intact so those who don't play nice can be sent on their way. The current new player bonuses are mostly poetics which veterans rarely need, or WT points which I'm always capped on anyway.

(Disclaimer: I am not saying that Japanese people are superior beings. I am saying that they have figured this particular problem out better, though. Speedruns and clears are handled completely differently so nobody ends up mad.)

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Originally Posted by Kallistra

...Yes, some people abuse the vote dismiss, but that's why it has a cooldown. It does NOT need removing, but it might need some adjusting. For example, make dismisses in a 4/4 party require 3/4 to approve the kick instead of 2/4 or make it so you can only dismiss one person everyday. Removing a function is not a solution, it is just creating another web of problems.

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Your post made me think over OP and yes, you suggestion have so much sense that I feel it as a better candidate for dealing with the feature than plain removal.

I'm not sitting on my high horse and if I see better reasoning I will acknowledge it. Kudos to you.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

I am saying that they have figured this particular problem out better, though. Speedruns and clears are handled completely differently so nobody ends up mad.)

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Everytime JP playstyle comes up, all that is ever being said is "XXX is being handled completely different." "Their playstyle differs a lot"

Yada yada yada. Please be more specific and give examples! I'm dying to know HOW it is different :<

Plz? <3

Purrrrrty please? <33

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

It's the truth, no matter how much you may not like to hear it; in terms of behaviour, attitude, and overall ability, JP is better than EU/ NA.

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The truth is none of this has anything to do with the topic.

You can easily convey your disagreement with OP's post without resorting to putting down certain regions no matter how "true" you think it is.

Not to mention that unless you do a research study between the different region servers to get factual statistics then your "truth" holds as much water as a glass with a huge hole in it.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

As long as DF is random matching, it does not need have votekick but just duty abort option, while votekick still have sense in PF, when you find out players are not what they are meant to be.

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Considering you can leave freely and kick the offender in a PF group, you have the opposite idea of what vote kick is there for it seems.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Everytime JP playstyle comes up, all that is ever being said is "XXX is being handled completely different." "Their playstyle differs a lot"

Yada yada yada. Please be more specific and give examples! I'm dying to know HOW it is different :<

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Disclaimer (going to use one on everything now): I am just posting this to answer the question asked. Also, not everyone on Japanese worlds is Japanese; it's a culture of the servers rather than a culture of the actual players' nationalities, for the most part.

In examples like the ones LalaRu gave, new players are treated very gently; the idea is to turn them into good players by giving them a good experience, rather than crushing them emotionally in order to increase a personal tomes/hour rate which is what some people seem to describe. Most new players are sensitive to veterans and create their clear runs as party finders rather than joining DF blind, so when you get into Castum via roulette, for example, you can usually expect a speedrun and proceed accordingly. If people aren't sure and get a newbie in a DF group, a lot of the time someone will ask whether they want to rush and the group will be expected to respect the request. Meanwhile, party finder advertisements for Castrum without any cutscene skipping will fill at any time of day, synced or unsynced; there are enough people willing to try messing around on their smartphones or desynthing stuff in their inventory while a newcomer enjoys their cutscenes that nobody has to feel forced to skip the movies unless they specifically created a speedrun group.

We also get party finders every day with descriptions like 'I suck at tanking, but I'm trying to learn! Will you come to The Vault with me and train?' rather than the person just silently joining DF, making mistakes throughout the run and getting silently kicked by a bunch of angry people who then have to wait 30 minutes for a replacement. Whenever someone sucks in a random DF group and doesn't acknowledge it themselves, people will bend over backwards to try to understand what's wrong and give respectful tips. It's never 'lololol this noob healer doesn't even use cleric stance LOL' but more like 'I wonder whether there's even time to play around in Cleric Stance a little? This tank is really tough today!'. The latter is just as pushy as the former, but doesn't immediately kick off the discussion from a point of maximum aggression and degenerate into a fight.

I know there are moody people on Japanese worlds too; if you're persistently terrible and ignore advice, or go against the group's playstyle, or tell lies about your communication skills, you'll occasionally be on the receiving end of some pretty snarky passive agressive remarks. Similarly, I know most non-Japanese players aren't bad apples; I can see plenty of kind people on the forums who are probably great in-game too. And for all I know, these positive things happen on non-Japanese servers too and the people telling me they don't are paranoid. But when all I hear is that newbies can't even use PF because nobody will join clear runs without some kind of special reward... sheesh. It really gives a poor impression of how things work on the other side. As ambassadors for the non-Japanese worlds, some of the members of the forum make them sound like very rough places to play.

It's worth adding that my original (not entirely serious) remark was based on my feelings about the chat ban in The Feast, which as far as I can tell was implemented for specifically the reason I gave in that same remark. I may be wholly mistaken but I have literally never had any kind of PVP experience in the whole time I have been playing where I felt having chat blocked would be productive in any way. Nobody has ever said anything aggressive no matter how bad a job I did. When everyone in the game has functionality removed to counter a problem which only seems to affect a completely different demographic playing on completely separate servers, it's annoying - though in the case of the chat ban I think the western players who didn't want the ban are completely justified in protesting too. It's annoying in exactly the same way that the content which rewards the stereotypical Japanese love of patient grinding annoys the bulk of the western playerbase, and consequently those who struggle to find parties who want to waste time doing that kind of thing. We get those complaints on the forum every time, "why didn't S-E realise everyone was just going to cheat at this new content before they released it?"

Well of course they didn't realise. They aren't viewing the game through the same eyes. At times, it's almost like we're playing two completely different games.

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Originally Posted by Miste

The truth is none of this has anything to do with the topic.

You can easily convey your disagreement with OP's post without resorting to putting down certain nationality groups no matter how "true" you think it is.

Not to mention that unless you do a research study between the different nationality servers to get factual statistics then your "truth" holds as much water as a glass with a huge hole in it.

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Technically it does, as we're discussing behaviour in-game and someone brought up a comparison between the two regarding the need for such an option as specified by OP.

I didn't "put down any nationality" either, I pointed out that player behaviour is, on average, better on one set of datacentres than another, as anyone who has experienced both sides of the coin will tell you. I couldn't care less if you choose not to believe it, that's your prerogative.

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Originally Posted by YISUG

i wasnt talking about any of what you just said
you said


then you say



what....and the whole thing about


lol , just stop

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all that is true actually. jp have a thread someplace, it is a "problematic player" thread. Like people who record with out permission, people who go too far against the group.

JP try to solve problems, not berate people. Something NA players should start doing. :/ it is a basic thing that takes lil to no time.