well then....

My party left me when I said I wouldn't do large pulls. I'm honestly besides myself right now. And people wonder why no one wants to play the healer

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

My party left me when I said I wouldn't do large pulls. I'm honestly besides myself right now. And people wonder why no one wants to play the healer

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What was your reason to refuse doing large pulls? What was the dungeon? Did you try first or just flat out refused?

Large pulls in a dungeon on white mage?

OH BOY <3

Divine seal > regen on tank, if mobs doe aoe damage or you have a melee, medica 2.

Cleric stance on > HOLY!
get to around 6K MP, pop shroud, assess the mob left, regen tank, cleric back on, assize and back to holy :p

if the tank is a dork knight, be wary about moaning nubs whinging about holy while blood price is up, tell him to learn his job better,

If you get a competent WAR, just go to town with holy,

with a PLD, be careful of pulling hate on a very large mob, PLD aoe threat is a fickle thing

Well, it's a weird attitude. What, you would just refuse to heal if the tank pulls more than three mobs? It's a team effort, there's got to be a bit of give and take. One person flatly doing something that will hold the other three back isn't really fair. That said, them leaving is also a bit over the top, I'd say.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

And people wonder why no one wants to play the healer

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No worries, there are plenty of good healeres who can handle it easily.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

My party left me when I said I wouldn't do large pulls. I'm honestly besides myself right now. And people wonder why no one wants to play the healer

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Because thats equivalent to me saying I refuse to do AoE as a DPS. Or I refuse to use mitigation as a tank.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

My party left me when I said I wouldn't do large pulls. I'm honestly besides myself right now. And people wonder why no one wants to play the healer

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Depends on the dungeon. If it was an expert dungeon, then yeah I would see one of them taking the thirty minute penalty. As the dungeon may take more than just thirty minutes and then some to complete if it was done group, by group. It may seen unreasonable to make these duties fast, and you may think that they're only thinking of themselves and not you in making this an enjoyable pace. The argument can and will bend both ways. Not everybody in the world has the time to spend a hour on a dungeon. Some can only play this game two hours a day due to work, school, and life.

Do you have a particular reason why you don't like huge pull's? Are you not comfortable with it yet or is there another reason?


Otherwise, you got off easy. I'm surprised the party decided to leave and eat the penalty themselves instead of abusing the vote kick to remove you. Of course if that ever happens, you have the right to submit a ticket.

The burden of the healer is to be the backbone of the party that support everyone no matter what. It is your duty to assist the party as much as you can, without fear of being chastised. As long as you do what you can do, you'll be fine. Even if you fail at meeting the parties expectations, always remind yourself that isn't a ban-able offense.


On a curious note: What made you think no one want's to be a healer? A huge number of players main it. Myself included. And I love it.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Of course if that ever happens, you have the right to submit a ticket.

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No, SE have stated that a "difference in playstyle" is a valid reason to kick someone from a party. As long as the kicked player did not experience verbal abuse or harassment, it's unlikely anything would be done.

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Originally Posted by seekified

No, SE have stated that a "difference in playstyle" is a valid reason to kick someone from a party. As long as the kicked player did not experience verbal abuse or harassment, it's unlikely anything would be done.

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I find this false because on many occasions SE has stressed the options "Harassment" "Afk" "Disconnected" is what it is and cannot be used for anything else.

They will punish you if you start believing it can be used for a "difference in play style" you speak. Provided you were reported for it.

The Terms of Service and Conduct have nothing to do with the way you play. Don't dps as a healer, don't cross class provoke, eat all the indicators, refuse to aoe and single target. None of that warrants an attention of the customer service department.


The only way for the vote kick function to be appropriate in your argument is if that "Difference in play style" was done out of spite/malice/grievance.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

I find this false because on many occasions SE has stressed the options "Harassment" "Afk" "Disconnected" is what it is and cannot be used for anything else.

They will punish you if you start believing it can be used for a "difference in play style" you speak. Provided you were reported for it.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ically-allowed
While it may not be an option ingame, time has shown what is and isn't allowed.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

I find this false because on many occasions SE has stressed the options "Harassment" "Afk" "Disconnected" is what it is and cannot be used for anything else.

They will punish you if you start believing it can be used for a "difference in play style" you speak. Provided you were reported for it.

The Terms of Service and Conduct have nothing to do with the way you play. Don't dps as a healer, don't cross class provoke, eat all the indicators, refuse to aoe and single target. None of that warrants an attention of the customer service department.


The only way for the vote kick function to be appropriate in your argument is if that "Difference in play style" was done out of spite/malice/grievance.

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The GMs disagree.

EDIT: Canadane was quicker. :)

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Originally Posted by Canadane

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ically-allowed
While it may not be an option ingame, time has shown what is and isn't allowed.

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Originally Posted by Hikoko

And just to clear things up, the reason I was kicked for had nothing to do with "different playstyles", the GM just put it in that category...

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A bit contradictory don't you think?


Also knowing the Customer service department. Anything they say is typically never in unison and is scripted verbatim. To say the whole team believes in this because of one staff member who may not even be working as a Game master anymore, (As this thread is ultra old by 3 years) is a bit of a stretch.

And I also say this by experience. As I get a variety of responses from the same type of vote kick abuse I reported.

http://i64.tinypic.com/fkv03k.png

http://i63.tinypic.com/fm288j.png

http://i64.tinypic.com/28hmvba.png

I must also add their responses on anything is always dangerously vague. And with good intentions, as we would often think what one person says is what the rest of the team members also believe in.



I'm not sure if we should continue to debate this as we may be getting off of the OP's point of the thread. Otherwise we will be going in pages and pages of "Well now we can just vote kick players for being under-geared or not playing to my expectations" etc etc.

lol when the tank doesnt ask me if big pulls are fine i dont heal em lol simply :D

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Originally Posted by Mirch

lol when the tank doesnt ask me if big pulls are fine i dont heal em lol simply :D

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You are playing the little princess and straight refuse to do your job in a dungeon because someone asks for your permission? Maybe tanks should start to refuse doing their job if dps start attacking before they are done pulling or if the healer puts regen on them to soon. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ilan

You are playing the little princess and straight refuse to do your job in a dungeon because someone asks for your permission? Maybe tanks should start to refuse doing their job if dps start attacking before they are done pulling or if the healer puts regen on them to soon. :rolleyes:

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+1



@Mirch
Honestly. I don't find it too much of a big deal when a healer or dps pulls before I do when I tank. But I wouldn't refuse taking the aggro off of them. That's childish as to not healing. If they die despite your healing, let that be your "justice". Otherwise that's just utter malice and vindictive. Which. . . . Does qualify as a report. As silly as it sounds.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

lol when the tank doesnt ask me if big pulls are fine i dont heal em lol simply :D

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Not even bro, imma just auto attack as a DPS. Have fun with the 45min+ run lol

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

And people wonder why no one wants to play the healer

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???

Because... they can't control their team? I'm honestly confused by this statement.

OP started the thread, then disappeared without answering any questions. If it looks like a bait and smells like a bait... :)

This reply is relevant to the OP.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

I'm not sure if we should continue to debate this as we may be getting off of the OP's point of the thread. Otherwise we will be going in pages and pages of "Well now we can just vote kick players for being under-geared or not playing to my expectations" etc etc.

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You can if you want to. DPS auto-attacking and watching Netflix? You don't even need a damage meter to know these things. That could be seen as a form of harassment by just not caring about mechanics, and slowing a run for other people whom have high DPS. No one says you have to be a world-leader in damage, just have to try, and you know, play the game.

That first response posted is about right on that. The vote dismiss is for a party to collectively decide who they want to play with. What a lot of people seem to forget that complain about this sort of thing is that they think everyone is solo queued. Believe it or not, a lot of people don't solo queue for roulettes .It takes two votes to dismiss.

Therefore if you are the one complaining about getting kicked often, you might need to learn to adjust your play style to fit what the rest of the party. Or just queue with your own friends.

Wait. Were you running as WHM? Please tell me you were only joking if that's the case.

I don't mass pull as a tank because I'm just that slow of a player. I have poor coordination and panic when overwhelmed. If someone has a problem then they should stop using DF.

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Originally Posted by technole

Snip

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Because of the fact it only takes two to vote kick. The duo's tend to get pompous to abuse it.

Can't tell you how many times a player I reported looked up my discord because lo and behold. They were pulled to the Prison.


Everything is about context here, they don't oblige to it just because you said so. That's not how any of the reports work. If there is a proper cause (Which there typically is when the vote kick is used the way you suggest is 'Ok') they will investigate and handle it.


I fail to understand the reasoning behind those minds that they are bullet proof to the policies because a vote kick feature exist.


And to be frank, a difference of opinion, exactly coincides with your excuse on a Play style being a good reason to vote kick someone.

You might as well kick a tank for taking off Shield Oath/Deliverance/Grit during the boss pulls, just because you don't like that even if the aggro never leaves the tank.


And no joke, I've been vote kicked for DPS'ing as a healer. No one died by the way. Nor was close to. And we were progressing to the middle of the dungeon. It all started when I said to the BLM "You don't need to heal." As he was spamming Psy's on the Paladin throughout the whole entire*** duty not dpsing at all. His response was "You don't need to dps" and claimed he's been spamming heals as a BLM because I shouldn't be dpsing as a healer. Oh and guess what, the paladin jumped in as well and said "Yeah were chatting here in the fc and I don't like it when you healers dps. It's not your job to, just keep spam healing me or get out." BLM: "No lets kick him now" Pld:"K"


Do you still want to excuse that behavior? And lets drop the opinion that the GM team says its okay. (Reasons stated before on page 2) That is a dangerous assumption based off the way that was posted by a player and the information he himself put that contradicts your belief.

Don't really get what the issue is. No-one else in the party wanted to run at a slow pace, so they left.

What would you rather they have done? Tried to force a normal-paced run on you? Got argumentative? Kicked you?

They did not want to run the dungeon how you wanted, nor you how they did.
I would've done the same, I'd rather do something else for half and try again, then run a dungeon that is no fun (imo) at all

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

My party left me when I said I wouldn't do large pulls. I'm honestly besides myself right now. And people wonder why no one wants to play the healer

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At the end of the day large multi-pulls are the standard operating procedure for the game. You're unlikely to find a random PuG group that shares your preferences. For better or worse it is what it is. You'll probably best be able to enhance your play experience by finding a class or role in which you feel comfortable fitting into the multi-pull dynamic. That could mean switching to something other than healer or it could mean simply identifying why you dislike large pulls on healer and working to change it.

Most players, be they healers, tanks or dps are at the bare minimum able to tolerate the currently popular methodology. Since there's no large movement against it, I don't see the status quo changing any time soon. Your only other option would be to gather like-mined players in party finder and avoid pugs.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

I don't mass pull as a tank because I'm just that slow of a player. I have poor coordination and panic when overwhelmed. If someone has a problem then they should stop using DF.

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I mean, you're the outlier. Asking everyone else to conform to you is a lot more unreasonable than you conforming to everyone else.

My perspective is if OP doesn't want to do large pulls, then he might want to consider playing a tank instead since more often than not, they determine the pace at which the dungeon will be ran. It really isn't a luxury a healer possesses. What they do possess is the ability to adapt to just about any group and job composition. A player who does not understand this might want to consider playing something other than healer.

That said, we don't know at what point he said this to his group. Was it at the start, or did it happen after the tank pulled everything from here to next week and didn't use any cooldowns to mitigate the incoming damage? If it was at the start and I was playing as a tank or DPS, I would seriously be like, "WTF!?" But I say this often when reading some of the experiences of other players on these forums. I've been pretty lucky and haven't encountered the level of douche-baggery that some of you have.

Either way, outright refusal is poor etiquette, and will never be met with any kind of positivity.

Looking at the OP's lodestone profile, I think I can understand why he won't do large pulls. At least in lvl 60 dungeons, his gear just isn't quite where I'd want mine to be to heal max level stuff (150 weapon, a few other 150-160 pieces, and even a 136). Knowing your limitations is a good thing. It probably could have been a more amicable exchange had the OP explained to the party that his gear isn't quite up to snuff for large pulls yet. I'd imagine most people would be understanding then.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Looking at the OP's lodestone profile, I think I can understand why he won't do large pulls. At least in lvl 60 dungeons, his gear just isn't quite where I'd want mine to be to heal max level stuff (150 weapon, a few other 150-160 pieces, and even a 136). Knowing your limitations is a good thing. It probably could have been a more amicable exchange had the OP explained to the party that his gear isn't quite up to snuff for large pulls yet. I'd imagine most people would be understanding then.

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Yes i saw it too and i can understand if someone doesn't want to do big pulls with that gear. What i don't understand is why the OP has gear like that since it is not his first healer on level 60.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Yes i saw it too and i can understand if someone doesn't want to do big pulls with that gear. What i don't understand is why the OP has gear like that since it is not his first healer on level 60.

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That's a great question as well.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Do you still want to excuse that behavior? And lets drop the opinion that the GM team says its okay. (Reasons stated before on page 2) That is a dangerous assumption based off the way that was posted by a player and the information he himself put that contradicts your belief.

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At-least you didn't avoid the fact you were solo queued and decided to go against the party wishes, whether it's logical or not. To me getting to be kicked from a dungeon party that was 100% anti-cleric stance is probably blessing in disguise, their DPS is probably abysmal too. Heck, even taking a self 30-minute penalty is probably a lot less than dealing with 45 min+ dungeon because of their gameplay. Logical or not, you can't assume everyone is solo queued, and if you solo queue it's still in your best interest to get agreement.

If I was kicked from a group for using cleric stance I would be happy.

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Originally Posted by technole

At-least you didn't avoid the fact you were solo queued and decided to go against the party wishes, whether it's logical or not. To me getting to be kicked from a dungeon party that was 100% anti-cleric stance is probably blessing in disguise, their DPS is probably abysmal too. Heck, even taking a self 30-minute penalty is probably a lot less than dealing with 45 min+ dungeon because of their gameplay. Logical or not, you can't assume everyone is solo queued, and if you solo queue it's still in your best interest to get agreement.

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I was more geared than all of them. And anyone who gets irritated from a healer going above and beyond in their party is clearly having a bad day. No one here is a Saint.





Did I forget to mention they were one of the players who tracked down my Discord after they were pulled to the Jail?

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Originally Posted by Mirch

lol when the tank doesnt ask me if big pulls are fine i dont heal em lol simply :D

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You clearly dont play this game cause guess who the mob is going to steamroll after they KO the tank. Spoiler: It's you.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

And people wonder why no one wants to play the healer

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outside of raid and ex trial, i play SCH as healer in expert roulettes and im the one who initiates and say to the tank, ”まとめおｋ！” meaning that it'd be ok for him to pull boss room to boss room. there's a satisfying feeling of bane-ing your 3 dots over 8~12+ targets and then spamming blizz2

Sometimes however doing big pulls in duty finder tanks just abuse the healer though. Can't tell you the number of times I've seen tanks pull a crazy amount of mobs aoe twice in defensive stance, then switch to offensive stance to help kill the adds leaving me to burn everything I have repeatedly every pull. It's why I rarely heal pugs now. I'll sit in the queue as dps instead. Also, big pulls don't always mean a faster run when the dps isn't up to snuff or tanks can't control all those mobs.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Also, big pulls don't always mean a faster run when the dps isn't up to snuff or tanks can't control all those mobs.

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If they can't kill large mobs faster with their AOEs, I'd hate to see how slow they are on individuals!

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If they can't kill large mobs faster with their AOEs, I'd hate to see how slow they are on individuals!

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Well, I wasn't speaking of dps aoe numbers, I'm speaking of the dps actually engaging in the fight instead "doing" their own thing. Such as one aoeing while one half heartedly does a single target rotation.

I sympathize--large pulls can put strain on the healer, especially new ones. I can handle them pretty well now (although on level 50+ dungeons please tell me first), but I think it needs to be a quick conversation with the group beforehand. That way everyone is in sync--but that's just my own opinion on that.

I must say I had to eat crow earlier today. Healers definitely SHOULD DPS when everyone else is good to go. There was an CNJ in my party earlier(I was THM) that would just jump around when they didn't have healing to do. I was like really? Now I see why Tanks/DPS get tired of that with a quickness.

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Originally Posted by Blonde_Huntress

I sympathize--large pulls can put strain on the healer, especially new ones. I can handle them pretty well now (although on level 50+ dungeons please tell me first), but I think it needs to be a quick conversation with the group beforehand. That way everyone is in sync--but that's just my own opinion on that.

I must say I had to eat crow earlier today. Healers definitely SHOULD DPS when everyone else is good to go. There was an CNJ in my party earlier(I was THM) that would just jump around when they didn't have healing to do. I was like really? Now I see why Tanks/DPS get tired of that with a quickness.

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That's actually a good point for healers that do dps. Sometimes smaller but faster pulls will give a smoother faster run when the healer can add to the dps. Sometimes not and super pulls are the most effective.

However, the large pull or bust mentality hurts more than helps imo unless everyone is suitably geared.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Sometimes smaller but faster pulls will give a smoother faster run when the healer can add to the dps. Sometimes not and super pulls are the most effective.

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you are sort of correct with this in a way. but say if the dungeon mob packs are close together taking down small groups that are chain pulled will be bad for TP and MP of DPS (and likely the healer also) if they aoe as it gives a small window to regenerate however if they are far apart enough it's ok though usually you'd rather just pull everything together and aoe them down, it's TP/MP and CD efficient.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

However, the large pull or bust mentality hurts more than helps imo unless everyone is suitably geared.

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the mentality is wrong, in my datacentre the tanks adjust accordingly if they see that the dps aren't aoe-ing things fast enough, they don't call you out for being subpar but you will lose your chance to get a comm if you don't pick up the pace with them