FFXIV Servers, are needed ?

I'm going to explain some of the problems that occur because of the latency or the PING so high that European players are playing.First of all I want to clarify that it is not problem of my connection and obviously I'm not the only player that happens, if it happens to all players from Europe.I Have 50Mbps and anyone who knows about networking speed knows that the real problem is the distance and malfunctioning of SE servers.

1 - When using skills like Ferocity II, Ragin Strike II, + WeaponSkill, it took one second longer to launch the weaponskill for every buff we've used before because of the animation and the answer so late in the skill.


2 - Any mob that makes respawn in front of an European player is displayed between one and three seconds later than when it appeared really, that does imposble to claim it if a Japanese or American party also wants to claim, making it impossible to enjoy the game and that happens killing NM's, Key-Mobs etc.


3 - On this point has already opened a post that i think is maybe useless. Now same problems in instances like Ifrit are obvious and often dodge a "rash" or "hellfire" is like Russian roulette sometimes you are in or you're out, don't know if you used the skill at time or off time or if you went out of an eruption until you see if your health points go down. This makes it impossible to dive into the game and removes any motivation to raid because your efforts are not rewarded unless you've been lucky many times. That problem is not solved by sending latency trace and then make a raid simulation of emulating the latency, that is not a real solution or optimal.

4 - Future problems. FFXIV team wants to introduce the PVP system, it can be a circus if you really do not correct the problem of latency, as it will be impossible to play PVP with full equality of conditions among people from East or West, it is ridiculous to think that you want to cast a skill and no matter how fast you do that there will always be someone faster than you even if your reaction was slower than yours, it makes the effort or the ability of the player does not really count in PVP, but yes how close you play from SE servers.


Those are the four points that I can highlight and which might warrant even more but I wanted to realize as much as possible.
This would solve besieging servers in Europe and the United States, like many other MMOs have, and so the abusive solve a PING we have, because if we play ,the Europeans want and pay for a good service, that is what we want, and not a nefarious service, I do not care to fight against thirty primals if it is painful to play against them, or put fifty strongholds if i go with seven other people in party and there are three players playing closer to SE servers and will always MOB claimer before until they tire and the rest of us keep on looking.


SE really please if you want to market a game outside of Japan do equally playable for those of us close to your servers as if we are in Europe.
I really hope that servers are placed as if that's not the player's experience will be dire and no matter how great content getting into the game because it will be impossible to really enjoy the world of Eorzea.

Thanks a lot for read.

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Originally Posted by Alos

I'm going to explain some of the problems that occur because of the latency or the PING so high that European players are playing.First of all I want to clarify that it is not problem of my connection and obviously I'm not the only player that happens, if it happens to all players from Europe.I Have 50Mbps and anyone who knows about networking speed knows that the real problem is the distance and malfunctioning of SE servers.

1 - When using skills like Ferocity II, Ragin Strike II, + WeaponSkill, it took one second longer to launch the weaponskill for every buff we've used before because of the animation and the answer so late in the skill.


2 - Any mob that makes respawn in front of an European player is displayed between one and three seconds later than when it appeared really, that does imposble to claim it if a Japanese or American party also wants to claim, making it impossible to enjoy the game and that happens killing NM's, Key-Mobs etc.


3 - On this point has already opened a post that i think is maybe useless. Now same problems in instances like Ifrit are obvious and often dodge a "rash" or "hellfire" is like Russian roulette sometimes you are in or you're out, don't know if you used the skill at time or off time or if you went out of an eruption until you see if your health points go down. This makes it impossible to dive into the game and removes any motivation to raid because your efforts are not rewarded unless you've been lucky many times. That problem is not solved by sending latency trace and then make a raid simulation of emulating the latency, that is not a real solution or optimal.

4 - Future problems. FFXIV team wants to introduce the PVP system, it can be a circus if you really do not correct the problem of latency, as it will be impossible to play PVP with full equality of conditions among people from East or West, it is ridiculous to think that you want to cast a skill and no matter how fast you do that there will always be someone faster than you even if your reaction was slower than yours, it makes the effort or the ability of the player does not really count in PVP, but yes how close you play from SE servers.


Those are the four points that I can highlight and which might warrant even more but I wanted to realize as much as possible.
This would solve besieging servers in Europe and the United States, like many other MMOs have, and so the abusive solve a PING we have, because if we play ,the Europeans want and pay for a good service, that is what we want, and not a nefarious service, I do not care to fight against thirty primals if it is painful to play against them, or put fifty strongholds if i go with seven other people in party and there are three players playing closer to SE servers and will always MOB claimer before until they tire and the rest of us keep on looking.


SE really please if you want to market a game outside of Japan do equally playable for those of us close to your servers as if we are in Europe.
I really hope that servers are placed as if that's not the player's experience will be dire and no matter how great content getting into the game because it will be impossible to really enjoy the world of Eorzea.

Thanks a lot for read.

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The acceptable ping for a MMO client to a server is about 0.1 sec, which we can get to Japan easily, the problem is SE's servers run slow and thier internal network doesnt seem efficiant the 2.0 servers will fix the problem even if they are in Japan.

XIV's servers are faulty, it's not the server location. This should be fixed or at least a lot more improved by feburary given the roadmap.

Whenever I'm in California I've used services based in California itself that had issues with latency due to older server infrastructure.

I understand your frustration.
I don't play from EU but even for us, sometimes actions take 1.. up to 2 seconds to register. I know generally that doesn't sound like much but in a game like this it really brings down the experience.

This is one of their biggest priorities it seems for the new servers. I truly wouldn't worry, just be patient :-)

Actions take up to FOUR seconds for me, the game is unplayable at times.

If SE allows me to buy their game, register for it, and pay for it like everyone else, they should make sure I have the same gaming experience as them (or at least close to it as much as possible).

Unfortunatly this thread is not going to stay alive for long since most players probably have a good enough ping and don't care about this.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

Actions take up to FOUR seconds for me, the game is unplayable at times.

If SE allows me to buy their game, register for it, and pay for it like everyone else, they should make sure I have the same gaming experience as them (or at least close to it as much as possible).

Unfortunatly this thread is not going to stay alive for long since most players probably have a good enough ping and don't care about this.

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Everyone has latency problems because the game uses a serverside interface with faulty servers. Some more than others, even in Japan it still takes a fair bit to register actions at times -- This is why just after maintenance the game runs a lot better for a little while.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

The acceptable ping for a MMO client to a server is about 0.1 sec, which we can get to Japan easily

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How? As a EU player I never had below 0.4 delay in FFXI and with my EU ls we rarely got claims at HNM camps before SE introduced the claim "wall".
Highly doubt any JP or NA players can understand this unless they travel here and try it for themself.

new server is on the way, and should fix these problems. the server is going to be here before PvP comes out

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Originally Posted by rickalk

How? As a EU player I never had below 0.4 delay in FFXI and with my EU ls we rarely got claims at HNM camps before SE introduced the claim "wall".
Highly doubt any JP or NA players can understand this unless they travel here and try it for themself.

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He is speaking in general, not in the case of FFXI/FFXIV. Step back for a second and then reread the post you responded to.
Whether his claims are true or not is one thing though, but he wasn't speaking in the case of either Square game so those experiences are moot.

I don't understand why you expect the US to be different from Europe. If you're basing this solely on physical distance from Japan, they're practically the same, depending on where you are in either continent. Distance, as others have said, has little to nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

The acceptable ping for a MMO client to a server is about 0.1 sec, which we can get to Japan easily, the problem is SE's servers run slow and thier internal network doesnt seem efficiant the 2.0 servers will fix the problem even if they are in Japan.

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Most people are getting 150-300 ms latency (this is just network latency) which according to what you said is not acceptable.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Network-Delay

People seriously need to understand it's far less about location and more about the actual servers (That are being worked on as we speak).

probably never happen but dual cpu servers, 96+gb ddr3 ram, SSD's to run the data off. would help with latency alot. although tbh, the SSD's are FAR to unreliable and high maintenence for a server. 10krpm HDD, gotta love them.

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Originally Posted by rickalk

How? As a EU player I never had below 0.4 delay in FFXI and with my EU ls we rarely got claims at HNM camps before SE introduced the claim "wall".
Highly doubt any JP or NA players can understand this unless they travel here and try it for themself.

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FFXI has been using old servers and networking equipment compared to what we should be running 14 on, for us in the EU then I would agree 0.1 sec ping probably is a little fast but it shouldnt be much more, maybe 0.2 or 0.3, because the internet is getting faster, just because you got a 0.4 sec ping on FFXI doesnt mean much these days because of the rapidly evolving technology.

New protocols and faster networking and harware are being released all the time so because FFXI, probably now using 2-3 year old gear will have a slower ping than FFXIV when we get the half decent servers.

The lag is extreme to the point of frustration. I think that servers should have been priority #1 all along, rather than hamlet defense and chocobos.


Why build a roof if you don't have a house.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Most people are getting 150-300 ms latency (this is just network latency) which according to what you said is not acceptable.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Network-Delay

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Its not acceptable for a MMO, this is why they want our feedback, so they can upgrade thier network because the problem is that wide spread there is an obvious problem at thier end and they want to see where thier bottlenecks are.

If say for example (dear god I hope its not true) they are using a 100Mb/s ethernet network then an upgrade 1Gb/s or even a 10Gb/s will really help with latency, there are too many options they could go through so I wont go into it fully.

The fact is that SE knows there is a latency problem on thier end which is why they are investigating.

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Originally Posted by captainpicard

The lag is extreme to the point of frustration. I think that servers should have been priority #1 all along, rather than hamlet defense and chocobos.


Why build a roof if you don't have a house.

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There two different teams, a programmer and artist that make the hamlet defence and chocobos cannot configure servers and network equipment they are completly different, its like me telling somone, "well you have a driving licence, you can drive so why dont you become a racing driver" which are both completly different, just because you can drive doesnt mean you can race cars.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

FFXI has been using old servers and networking equipment compared to what we should be running 14 on, for us in the EU then I would agree 0.1 sec ping probably is a little fast but it shouldnt be much more, maybe 0.2 or 0.3, because the internet is getting faster, just because you got a 0.4 sec ping on FFXI doesnt mean much these days because of the rapidly evolving technology.

New protocols and faster networking and harware are being released all the time so because FFXI, probably now using 2-3 year old gear will have a slower ping than FFXIV when we get the half decent servers.

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That sounds like a pretty big assumption to me. While I agree the FFXI servers probably run on older hardware it doesn't mean the network equipment is of worse quality. Quite the opposite actually, most if not all big companies update their network equipment regulary.

As you said, SE are working on a new server infrastructure which hopefully will solve most delay problems. However, EU players will always be at the bottom of the food chain if we're all connecting to the same japanese server. I believe that was the point the OP tried to make.

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Originally Posted by rickalk

That sounds like a pretty big assumption to me. While I agree the FFXI servers probably run on older hardware it doesn't mean the network equipment is of worse quality. Quite the opposite actually, most if not all big companies update their network equipment regulary.

As you said, SE are working on a new server infrastructure which hopefully will solve most delay problems. However, EU players will always be at the bottom of the food chain if we're all connecting to the same japanese server. I believe that was the point the OP tried to make.

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It should only be about 0.1 secs, the only other way they can stop that is regional servers which I am hugely against, I want the sevrers to be populated all day, and I have made too many friends with people around the world to agree with regional servers.

I see this FFXI had about 1-2sec delay when moving when i move my GF see it 1-2 Sec. on hours that there a lot of people that don't change by much. I think FFXIV if 2.0 servers can do that then we don't really need the servers in NA at all this is not a fast speed MMO like wow where you need to have very low ping even for PVP.

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Originally Posted by Sav

I don't understand why you expect the US to be different from Europe. If you're basing this solely on physical distance from Japan, they're practically the same, depending on where you are in either continent. Distance, as others have said, has little to nothing to do with it.

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That's because there are many providers who route the signal from the EU to US and THEN to Japan. So yeah, we do have a higher latency than US people.

It's especially frustrating when you hear people talk about #10 chains when yours cut off at #4 because it takes the server up to 10 seconds to register a chain on a laggy day.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

That's because there are many providers who route the signal from the EU to US and THEN to Japan. So yeah, we do have a higher latency than US people.

It's especially frustrating when you hear people talk about #10 chains when yours cut off at #4 because it takes the server up to 10 seconds to register a chain on a laggy day.

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Which ever way they route teh data round the world ppl in EU have a higher ping because we are further away from the servers than anywhere else

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Originally Posted by Delsus

The acceptable ping for a MMO client to a server is about 0.1 sec, which we can get to Japan easily, the problem is SE's servers run slow and thier internal network doesnt seem efficiant the 2.0 servers will fix the problem even if they are in Japan.

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Sorry but i live in the UK and the lowest ping I get to Japan is around 0.27 to 0.33 seconds so Euorpe > Japan would not get a 100ms or below.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

The acceptable ping for a MMO client to a server is about 0.1 sec, which we can get to Japan easily, the problem is SE's servers run slow and thier internal network doesnt seem efficiant the 2.0 servers will fix the problem even if they are in Japan.

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No way the average player this side of the world can get 100ms ping to Japan. For reference: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Network-Delay

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Originally Posted by Fear

Sorry but i live in the UK and the lowest ping I get to Japan is around 0.27 to 0.33 seconds so Euorpe > Japan would not get a 100ms or below.

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Are they to networks that have servers that need to transmit live data, or just web servers which can cope with a lower ping?

MMOs NEED to have a low ping or we get the problems we have in the ifrit fight, admittedly I should have used the range 0.1s to about 0.3, but 0.3 is pushing it.

because MMOs need PC position and enemy attacks on the server and the client at almost the same time they need very low pings, whereas web servers can have higher pings because the data is static and you dont have about 1 sec to react to things, also how many pings did you send?

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Originally Posted by Ilean

No way the average player this side of the world can get 100ms ping to Japan. For reference: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Network-Delay

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That is the pings people are getting TO THE ALREADY BROKEN SERVERS SE put that up because they know there is a problem and want to fix it, it bears no referance to what is acceptable or possible only what people are getting across SE's already broken network. The numbers in that post are so SE can see if the problem is widespread and fix it.

I did a speed test to a server in Japan probably to a webserver (low ping across the network not needed) and got a 463ms ping, on my 3g connection so with a 50Mb connection and decent servers on SE's end NA can get 0.1s JP and EU can get about 0.2s to the servers that need a low ping.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

That is the pings people are getting TO THE ALREADY BROKEN SERVERS SE put that up because they know there is a problem and want to fix it

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I can see why your lack of experience with networks would get you confused. If you go take a look at the tracerts in the thread I referenced you will see that the big ping "jump" occurs when we move from a US network to a JP one and that's several hops before it enters SE.

In other words, the biggest latency source comes from crossing the ocean and has nothing to do with SE's server's hardware or software.

Not that I doubt that their current server (hard and soft) is screwed up and the biggest cause of the problem, it's just that the notion that the average user this side can get < 200ms ping to Japan is uninformed and stupid.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

I can see why your lack of experience with networks would get you confused. If you go take a look at the tracerts in the thread I referenced you will see that the big ping "jump" occurs when we move from a US network to a JP one and that's several hops before it enters SE.

In other words, the biggest latency source comes from crossing the ocean and has nothing to do with SE's server's hardware or software.

Not that I doubt that their current server (hard and soft) is screwed up and the biggest cause of the problem, it's just that the notion that the average user this side can get < 200ms ping to Japan is uninformed and stupid.

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Imma give up then because the I have played other jp MMOs and and there isnt this problem, and I do know about networks and I do know getting across the sea takes longer but if you really think its not SEs problem keep playing on these broken servers if you want

You are failing to understand what I am trying to say, and in that thread there are 150ish ms ping across the ocean. so guess what it is possible, you just fail to read

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Imma give up then because the I have played other jp MMOs and and there isnt this problem, and I do know about networks and I do know getting across the sea takes longer but if you really think its not SEs problem keep playing on these broken servers if you want

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Feel free to provide technical data that supports your claims.

And I never said SE's servers aren't part of the problem. Just that when it comes to network latency you don't know what you are talking about.

Its nothing to do with SE is it, check this trace from the feeback thread

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1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.2.1
2 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms 10.4.127.254
3 333 ms 123 ms 53 ms 10.137.196.145
4 14 ms 9 ms 11 ms 10.255.49.94
5 874 ms 142 ms 9 ms te2-8.ccr01.opo01.atlas.cogentco.com [149.6.32.17]
6 13 ms 13 ms 16 ms te7-1.ccr01.vgo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.57.138]
7 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms te4-8.ccr01.bio01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.37.49]
8 27 ms 27 ms 27 ms te2-2.ccr01.bod01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.38.82]
9 36 ms 38 ms 35 ms te0-0-0-1.mpd22.par01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.0.226]
10 108 ms 109 ms 109 ms te0-6-0-2.mpd22.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.105]
11 114 ms 115 ms 114 ms te0-3-0-6.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.41.29]
12 160 ms 154 ms 145 ms te0-2-0-3.mpd22.atl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.2.101]
13 145 ms 144 ms 145 ms te0-3-0-2.mpd22.iah01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.2.246]
14 194 ms 176 ms 175 ms te0-0-0-3.mpd22.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.45.6]
15 179 ms 179 ms 183 ms te9-1.ccr02.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.130]
16 181 ms 181 ms 180 ms 38.104.84.42
17 289 ms 289 ms * gi11-0-0.cr1.nrt1.asianetcom.net [202.147.61.170]
18 289 ms 291 ms 290 ms gi1-0-0.gw1.nrt5.asianetcom.net [202.147.0.178]
19 295 ms 295 ms 298 ms squareco.asianetcom.net [203.192.149.210]
20 316 ms 310 ms 683 ms 61.195.56.129
21 310 ms 298 ms 307 ms 219.117.144.2
22 296 ms 296 ms 297 ms 219.117.146.149
23 306 ms 308 ms 308 ms 219.117.146.129
24 310 ms 308 ms 307 ms 219.117.146.46
25 447 ms 416 ms 317 ms 202.67.52.81

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Now I know it is only one but it breaks your thorey apart you will see yes it jumps when it gets to Japan to a min of 109ms, but then ir gets to SE's ISP and it jumps 100ms, then it gets to the on to SE's network and jumps to 683ms, i'm sure there will be more traces like this which show there is something at SE's end.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Its nothing to do with SE is it, check this trace from the feeback thread


Now I know it is only one but it breaks your thorey apart you will see yes it jumps when it gets to Japan to a min of 109ms, but then ir gets to SE's ISP and it jumps 100ms, then it gets to the on to SE's network and jumps to 683ms, i'm sure there will be more traces like this which show there is something at SE's end.

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Might want to learn how to read a tracert:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/98073

SE themselves said there's a problem with their servers and ISP settings on their end.

XI had japan based servers and it worked

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Originally Posted by Majidah

XI had japan based servers and it worked

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Which is why we all know it can be done, there are just some people that fail to see it.

I get the feeling very few people read the OP of this thread. Yes it was written in poor english but the main point was a concern for unfairness in PvP and NM claims, EUvsNAvsJP based on server distance.
Noone is saying the latency won't be better after SE release 2.0.
Check the link posted to the other thread about tracert tests and you'll see quite a big jump in ms between eu and na players, plus the jp with 10 ms overall..

Oh and noone is forcing you to play on a regional server if you'd rather play with your overseas friends on a international server, so it seems pointless to argue against it.

Indeed, however PvP is a non existent feature in FFXIV and won't be introduced until the servers are fixed which there won't be an 'unfairness between euvsnavsjp' because faulty servers alone is the main problem plaguing latency, not the server location or any of that.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Its nothing to do with SE is it, check this trace from the feeback thread


Now I know it is only one but it breaks your thorey apart you will see yes it jumps when it gets to Japan to a min of 109ms, but then ir gets to SE's ISP and it jumps 100ms, then it gets to the on to SE's network and jumps to 683ms, i'm sure there will be more traces like this which show there is something at SE's end.

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That's false, I took the tracert info you posted and checked up your path. You begin in Madrid Spain, get routed to America at hop 10, Vietnam at 16 and your first connection to Japan is at 17 with 289ms.
That's a pretty f***ed up path if you ask me, and if that doesn't bother you as a fellow EU player then all the more power to you.

Edit: Some corrections. If that is indeed your own test, but in either case it stands.