Do you feel xp gap should shorten for DoH?

In light of materia, it seems with the recent inverted leveling curve for DoW/DoM that most materia requiring lv 1-30ish is rather obsolete and instead of having a fun and expansive system for our equipment we just get a system that forces a time sink on crafting :(.

For new players this is a nightmare I'm sure since just their options consist of focusing on 1 class and leveling at a decent rate or sluggishly/painfully leveling 4+ classes just to make 1 class well equipped throughout its growth.

I'm aware this topic is nothing new; however, I'm here to ask if you guys think the issue should be solved by shortening the xp gap between DoH levels.

If you have any other ideas let me know, this is a forum after all :p.

Thanks for reading!

*edit
Another thread going on that closely explains my thoughts on the matter is right here:

Click Me

without the timesink for crafting, everyone would be able to do everything too easily



1 big thing ive pushed for is a much steeper curve on exp required to level post 50
BUT
i do not extend this to crafting, crafting should remain on the slow rate of increase it already has to keep it from going overboard

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

without the timesink for crafting, everyone would be able to do everything too easily



1 big thing ive pushed for is a much steeper curve on exp required to level post 50
BUT
i do not extend this to crafting, crafting should remain on the slow rate of increase it already has to keep it from going overboard

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My only question to you is if you could possibly think of it from another person's perspective who is just starting the game or perhaps doesn't have as much time as you (seeing as you have numerous level 50 crafting classes) =(.

The bias can be strong, either from those like myself who barely level craft or those who do a lot like you, but one thing that seems to be an issue is the gargantuan amount of time needed just to maintain good gear with good materia.

Either one of two things will need to happen for yoshida to achieve his vision of playability and content for all:

1. he makes crafting more managable and less of a time sink so that materia can be handled with greater ease

or

2. content like dzaemel and ifrit have to be severely dumbed down in difficulty so that everyone can manage to kill them and not put 9001+ hours into the game so that only certain shells are able to access and succeed in the only content that exists =/.

Don't even think about lowering the difficulty of level 50 content. It's like a sin!

About crafting though, I do not craft much myself, but it is easy to just shout for a crafter and have them to slot the gear for you. You don't necessarily have to level up your own crafts just to slot materia. You have a community to ask for help. They spent those countless hours leveling up their crafts, I'm sure they wouldn't mind putting themselves to good use.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

My only question to you is if you could possibly think of it from another person's perspective who is just starting the game or perhaps doesn't have as much time as you (seeing as you have numerous level 50 crafting classes) =(.

The bias can be strong, either from those like myself who barely level craft or those who do a lot like you, but one thing that seems to be an issue is the gargantuan amount of time needed just to maintain good gear with good materia.

Either one of two things will need to happen for yoshida to achieve his vision of playability and content for all:

1. he makes crafting more managable and less of a time sink so that materia can be handled with greater ease

or

2. content like dzaemel and ifrit have to be severely dumbed down in difficulty so that everyone can manage to kill them and not put 9001+ hours into the game so that only certain shells are able to access and succeed in the only content that exists =/.

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i am thinking of this from an aspect of whats needed to keep crafting something thats not too easily leveled(im sorry but if it got as easy as combat, itd be really dumb)

we used to get 300 exp MAX from crafting you know, now we can get up to 900 per synth, before bonus's are applied
how is this not a hard thing to do? crafters can easily get 30-50k an hour, and getting less means they are doing lower level stuff

its not slow, its really just tedious work because its not as exciting as combat

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

30-50k an hour, and getting less means they are doing lower level stuff

its not slow, its really just tedious work because its not as exciting as combat

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There's your problem =/. 30-50k isn't a universal truth for crafting growth either, perhaps for you, but considering that most people can't stand to even craft for hours in a row I doubt that speed will draw anyone closer =(.

Right now crafting is more of an obstacle than anything close to fun. Pressing standard synth gets tedious and the only fun synths come from when something like aeolian scimitars/silver tricornes/etc (aka the synths that really count) are made.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

You have a community to ask for help. They spent those countless hours leveling up their crafts, I'm sure they wouldn't mind putting themselves to good use.

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I see what you mean and I agree but ironically the highlighted sentence seems to only prove the point. Additionally, the community is scarce and having to simply rely on others all the time is cumbersome and something short of being on hand quickly when you need it.

Being able to manage your own crafts with ease is (but not too much ease) is preferable =)

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Originally Posted by Ventus

There's your problem =/. 30-50k isn't a universal truth for crafting growth either, perhaps for you, but considering that most people can't stand to even craft for hours in a row I doubt that speed will draw anyone closer =(.

Right now crafting is more of an obstacle than anything close to fun. Pressing standard synth gets tedious and the only fun synths come from when something like aeolian scimitars/silver tricornes/etc (aka the synths that really count) are made.



I see what you mean and I agree but ironically the highlighted sentence seems to only prove the point. Additionally, the community is scarce and having to simply rely on others all the time is cumbersome and something short of being on hand quickly when you need it.

Being able to manage your own crafts with ease is (but not too much ease) is preferable =)

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lets be honest

not everyone will be able to do everything(because of their personal playerstyles)

some people just arent cut out to craft in the current system, and thats fine

we really dont need to dumb it down to make it easier for everyone to get to capped crafts, the game isnt built around everyone being able to do that

just like some people will only want 1 combat class at 50, and will never craft, the same applies to how crafting is done in general

some people just wont do it, and making it easier to level wont change them not doing it, all it does is make those who want to reach 50, do it even quicker, which they dont really need to do


also, that 30-50k exp curve, is pretty universal, at the lowest end of each "grind range" for items you should be getting around 30k or so exp an hour
at the higher end youll be getting closer to 50k

factors such as having BAD GEAR, can hurt this(you people know who im talking about) as well as being stubborn and doing the easiest possible lower synths that just dont give enough exp to keep up to these standards

now add in leves...omg add in leves...

do you have any idea how much leves speed up craft leveling? ALOT let me tell you that
1 days of leves, depending on your range, is up to a FULL LEVEL of exp just from the bonus, thats not counting exp from the synths themselves



my final point, we dont need more faster leveling, when i was still leveling, i almost got annoyed when they made it faster, and faster, and faster to the point where i finished out my final jobs like they were a joke. granted i was happy to get there, but when you kill the journey, you kinda kill half the fun

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

lets be honest

not everyone will be able to do everything(because of their personal playerstyles)

some people just arent cut out to craft in the current system, and thats fine

we really dont need to dumb it down to make it easier for everyone to get to capped crafts, the game isnt built around everyone being able to do that

just like some people will only want 1 combat class at 50, and will never craft, the same applies to how crafting is done in general

some people just wont do it, and making it easier to level wont change them not doing it, all it does is make those who want to reach 50, do it even quicker, which they dont really need to do


also, that 30-50k exp curve, is pretty universal, at the lowest end of each "grind range" for items you should be getting around 30k or so exp an hour
at the higher end youll be getting closer to 50k

factors such as having BAD GEAR, can hurt this(you people know who im talking about) as well as being stubborn and doing the easiest possible lower synths that just dont give enough exp to keep up to these standards

now add in leves...omg add in leves...

do you have any idea how much leves speed up craft leveling? ALOT let me tell you that
1 days of leves, depending on your range, is up to a FULL LEVEL of exp just from the bonus, thats not counting exp from the synths themselves



my final point, we dont need more faster leveling, when i was still leveling, i almost got annoyed when they made it faster, and faster, and faster to the point where i finished out my final jobs like they were a joke. granted i was happy to get there, but when you kill the journey, you kinda kill half the fun

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Your logic seems a bit backwards O.o. You claim that the system doesn't need to be dumbed down but "dumbing down" has no correlation to crafting xp length (even if you do claim it to be too fast). Length of xp gain rate isn't = to complexity, usefulness, and immersion nor does it change the game in any profound way.

Slowing down the xp gain rate or keeping it as is does NOTHING beneficial for the game since all it accomplishes is allowing a small group of people who have the time to play this game a lot to reach high levels in a generally tedious system.

Of course leves speed things up but they are finite and will just as well drain the leves that could be otherwise spent on other classes, thus further proving that the concept of not wasting much time or having ease of leveling multiple classes to maintain decent gear fly right out the window.

you say "some people aren't cut out for crafting", but you got to consider the reason a TON of people don't craft is because, metaphorically, crafting is the big, ugly, and dreadful elephant in the room most players don't want to address as it holds no direct incentive to participate in. The only way I would feel compelled to craft is if my gear wouldn't be replaced every other second. Then and only then would it seem reasonable to spend time trying to slot in materia.

Let me just say this:
I don't root for shorter xp lengths in crafting because I want to have levels handed to me on a silver platter, rather I'd like to see the ability to place any useful material become more accesible to the player.

On the other hand I would have much fewer issues with a system that didn't have DoM/DoW insanely outlevel any reasonable rate of crafting progression.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

Let me just say this:
I don't root for shorter xp lengths in crafting because I want to have levels handed to me on a silver platter, rather I'd like to see the ability to place any useful material become more accesible to the player.

On the other hand I would have much fewer issues with a system that didn't have DoM/DoW insanely outlevel any reasonable rate of crafting progression.

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the new leveling system did kind of make keeping crafts up to speed a pain to do, i will admit that, but im sure thatl be fixed
however, that doesnt mean we need to speed up crafting to keep up with combat now either

the ability to make gear for people, especialy at the higher ranges should remain reserved for those willing to put in all the time it takes to get there

and again, being able to slot stuff is VERY VERY easy to do right now even without a craft, there are so many crafters out there who have taken the time to level already they will happily do it for tips if not free!


now on the other hand, for those who want to do everything themselves, this is a path they have chosen and have to live with the difficulty(much as i had to do, i spent a whole lot of time doing what i did to get everything to 50 and its a choice i made, i coulda taken the easy way out and let other people craft for me after all)

I think the way to go is to change materia so that any DoH can meld onto any piece of gear along with a change in the means of gaining exp. It doesn't have to be any faster, just less boring.

The any class can meld any materia thing is to alleviate the need for multiple crafts to handle melding (unless they do a repair-style melding mechenic prior to 2.0).

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the ability to make gear for people, especialy at the higher ranges should remain reserved for those willing to put in all the time it takes to get there

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Truth

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

being able to slot stuff is VERY VERY easy to do right now even without a craft, there are so many crafters out there who have taken the time to level already they will happily do it for tips if not free!

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Perhaps in high population servers like Selbina, but in ol' Bodhum that stuff takes a good long shouting for =/.

Anywho I think we've gotten to that point where I just about agree with most of what you're saying, but honestly I'd like know if you truly enjoyed the grind to 50 on multi classes.

People who watch movies/tv shows while crafting to 50 (which apparently is vast majority. Source = threads on this board) seem to only prove that crafting is terribly boring and too long. It almost overstays its welcome with the length it takes to finish off one of them.

Once people actually want to craft and don't have to have other electronic distractions just so they can not die of boredom, then perhaps length of crafting leveling wouldn't be so horrid >.<.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

Truth



Perhaps in high population servers like Selbina, but in ol' Bodhum that stuff takes a good long shouting for =/.

Anywho I think we've gotten to that point where I just about agree with most of what you're saying, but honestly I'd like know if you truly enjoyed the grind to 50 on multi classes.

People who watch movies/tv shows while crafting to 50 (which apparently is vast majority. Source = threads on this board) seem to only prove that crafting is terribly boring and too long. It almost overstays its welcome with the length it takes to finish off one of them.

Once people actually want to craft and don't have to have other electronic distractions just so they can not die of boredom, then perhaps length of crafting leveling wouldn't be so horrid >.<.

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sometimes i enjoyed it, especialy since i did alot of it in between behests and such when they were still in their prime
id craft, id fight, id craft id fight
it was a nice alternating sequence

by the time i got to the end, the thrill of being there trumpted anything else so that alone made it enjoyable regardless of the grind

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Don't even think about lowering the difficulty of level 50 content. It's like a sin!

About crafting though, I do not craft much myself, but it is easy to just shout for a crafter and have them to slot the gear for you. You don't necessarily have to level up your own crafts just to slot materia. You have a community to ask for help. They spent those countless hours leveling up their crafts, I'm sure they wouldn't mind putting themselves to good use.

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Yes. It's awesome giving a person you have no ties to, don't know, and likely speaks a different language a 200k gil item and a 800k gil materia...

As for the OP, the crafting leveling curve is ridiculous. It appears to be almost necessary to level a craft, if not more than one with the advent of materia, not only so that you can have an "inflow" of convertable items to turn into materia, but also because you have to socket items. And going for more than one materia with a stranger is bat .... crazy.

But if the crafting curve stays as it is, it will hands down drive people away.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

Yes. It's awesome giving a person you have no ties to, don't know, and likely speaks a different language a 200k gil item and a 800k gil materia...

As for the OP, the crafting leveling curve is ridiculous. It appears to be almost necessary to level a craft, if not more than one with the advent of materia, not only so that you can have an "inflow" of convertable items to turn into materia, but also because you have to socket items. And going for more than one materia with a stranger is bat .... crazy.

But if the crafting curve stays as it is, it will hands down drive people away.

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Its great to have friends then ;3

Otherwise, have fun crafting! :D

Also, materia craft isnt that hard. Its your choice to do it yourself or not, and of course, if you want to "solo" it is going to take more time. Obviously obvious.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Its great to have friends then ;3

Otherwise, have fun crafting! :D

Also, materia craft isnt that hard. Its your choice to do it yourself or not, and of course, if you want to "solo" it is going to take more time. Obviously obvious.

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Obviously pointless comments. You start on the previous page saying about how it's not that bad then rub it in peoples face about how ridiculous the grind is if you don't have friends that went through it.

Also, how do you propose to "group" through crafting?

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

Also, how do you propose to "group" through crafting?

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You think i am some sort of retard?

I never said it was ridiculous. Its your choice to do it yourself or have others do it for you. That. Simple.

I meant instead of asking for others to slot gear with materia for you. You'd rather play the game solo than work with people...

Do you have any common sense, anyone would know what I meant.

No, my comments are not pointless, they are fact.

I'll reiterate what I've said on pretty much every one of these DoH-related topics. I see no issue with the EXP curve required for DoH, I like that leveling up a DoH is a challenging process that takes time and dedication. As a player who leveled two classes 1 to 50 without a crafting class above 25 I can attest to the fact playing this game is possible without leveling a craft. Between leves/etc gold and NM-dropped gear it is not difficult to get by without sitting down and grinding a craft for hours. For those select few people with the resources to do so, they should be rewarded with a high level craft.

However, the root of the issue that is constantly overlooked is how tedious and monotonous the crafting system is. With a proper crafting system that didn't so eagerly seduce rapid-fire controllers and unmentionable programs, the EXP curve will not be so terrible. If crafting were fun, many many things would be solved.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

I meant instead of asking for others to slot gear with materia for you. You'd rather play the game solo than work with people... no, my comments are not pointless, they are fact.

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the problem is for the most part, mmos are not meant to be 100% soloable

but as far as the topic of this thread goes
NOTHING, nothing at all stops people from soloing with a higher exp curve, it just takes them longer to do everything(as usualy happens with solo)

the fact these people like to solo to begin with means they probly wont get as bored with crafting anyway as a solo activity just sitting back

I propose that they incorporate an exp chain system for successfully completing crafts equal or higher level than your current rank. If you fail a synth, it breaks the chain.

I understand the value in keeping the road to a 50 craft a lengthy one, as you can see the effects in WoW what a crafting system that is too easy becomes eventually.. If everyone had a max level craft it would greatly depreciate its value.

However, to those who already have a craft at 50, can you honestly say that the grind wasn't a tad much? Surely we can at the very least discuss a system that would preserve the prestige of a having a 50 craft while making it just a little bit easier for those who don't have one leveled.

@TheVedis, the way you're voicing your opinion against shortening the grind reminds me of a few players I know that had a 50 DoW/DoM class before the exp changes in 1.19. When they realized that the game was being changed to make it easier to level they were so outspoken against the new players who were leveling quickly. They outright looked down on the new players and labeled them as "gimps." They probably felt the many months it took them to reach 50 was completely trivialized by the influx of new players who could do it within weeks.

While I understand where they are coming from, I can honestly say that opening the game to more players can only be a good thing. In XI I had too many friends who refused to play the game because of the time commitment required to get to end game. Yes, getting a max level character felt amazing, but I felt like the vast majority of players at the top were too caught up in success and prestige within the game that it made the environment stifling. I'm glad that XIV is becoming a more accessible game for all because the community is a brighter, happier place.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

No, my comments are not pointless, they are fact.

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Spoken with such authority :p

The guildleve change in 1.19 has pretty much made it possible to take a craft from 1 to 50 without even spending a dime as long as you set aside 2 months or so worth of leves to do it. Shortening the exp curve would just make it ridiculous.

Anyway, as someone said earlier in the topic. I hope SE takes player feedback about the current levelling curve and uses it to create a better paced rate of levelling whenever they decide to raise the level cap rather than keep bouncing us all over the place between 1-50.

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Originally Posted by Bluetaro

Spoken with such authority :p

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lol well technically they aren't even comments if they are fact, so my bad on that one. xP

a perspective: DoW/M is really just about killing sh*t and having fun. DoL is the lazy money-maker (no real investment just gather, sell, and collect money). DoH requires investing money in gear (like everyone else, but also), mats, learning your particular market, buying trends, etc etc... it is for the ppl that are a lil more geared towards being business savvy... and that's their high out of it... to make it common and less demanding, is to essentially take the fun out of it for them. and you know what, if you find crafting boring and too tedious and you just want to get to 50 so you can join in on the 'fun'.... lemme clue you in, it isn't for you.

1) if you enjoy crafting, you shouldn't be wanting to make it a walk in the park. just like dow/m's don't want things too easy.

2) if you are looking to get to 50, so you can make some money, making it easier will not help you obtain that goal. also you don't have to be 50 to make money in crafting.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

1. he makes crafting more managable and less of a time sink so that materia can be handled with greater ease

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SE should just make an UI for materia like the UI for repair. With this it should be easier to let materia put in the gear from another crafters without to need to level a crafting class yourself.

To answer the OP question, no i dont.

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Originally Posted by Lebannen

To answer the OP question, no i dont.

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^^ i second this answer.

Crafters are virtually defenseless in the field, especially around aggressive mobs. Shorten the curve. One shouldn't risk getting killed over and over again and sink their gil into repairs rather than new tools.

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Originally Posted by kensredemption

Crafters are virtually defenseless in the field, especially around aggressive mobs. Shorten the curve. One shouldn't risk getting killed over and over again and sink their gil into repairs rather than new tools.

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crafters shouldnt be in the field trying to fight to begin with
and no camp is imposibly hard to get to without duing(hell none of them should even have death on the way to them in general, cept maybe bluefog)

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Originally Posted by Razor

However, the root of the issue that is constantly overlooked is how tedious and monotonous the crafting system is. With a proper crafting system that didn't so eagerly seduce rapid-fire controllers and unmentionable programs, the EXP curve will not be so terrible. If crafting were fun, many many things would be solved.

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I absolutely agree with this comment. I often think, that maybe if the crafting minigame was replaced by minesweeper or the Snake game, then grinding to 50 would be as easy as facebook browsing.

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Originally Posted by AeraLucis

I absolutely agree with this comment. I often think, that maybe if the crafting minigame was replaced by minesweeper or the Snake game, then grinding to 50 would be as easy as facebook browsing.

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DO NOT WANT BEJEWELLED IN THIS FOR CRAFTING

lol, as much as those minigames would be awesome, they would fast get old and repetitive, and lets face it
this isnt puzzle pirates

sorry but the etire crafting system is silly, below are the worst points.

1) Time sink - it takes FAR to long to get a craft to 50 compared to any other class in the game
2) Boring - Lets face it, its monotonous, dull, annoying and generally puts people to sleep!
3) Multiple crafts - how many sythns need multiple crafts if your making something from scratch. further sink.
4) reward - the reward for the time it takes to complete a single synth sucks worse than DOH nodes

the entire system needs a majour overhaul.

1) the minigame needs redesigning
2) learning curve needs shortening (tough crap if you dont agree just cause you already got 50's, suck it up like DOW/M)
3) rewards should feel more....fitting.

address the entire system with a brand new one and people will enjoy crafting alot better.

A NOTE TO ALL THE HATERS: just because you have multiple 50's in crafts already and spent all that money/time getting there doesnt mean you can just turn around and say "no it shouldnt be made faster"

hundreds of DOW/M with 50's spent alot of time building thier battle classes to 50, i did, conj, archer and gladiator, now all these new players come in and level to 50 in days. why? MAJOUR XP gain boost making the curve shorter, does it bother me?

it bothers me that they get PL'd and dont learn how to play that class

it DOES NOT bother me that they reach 50 in less time than it took me.

point in case is, TOUGH CRAP!

the lower populated servers suffer insanely from lack of crafters meaning that they have to either sit there shouting for hours waiting for some stranger to do it, or not bother using the new content.

SHORTEN THE CURVE. give everyone access to crafting. be damned if i want to spend months casually trying to get a 50 class.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

crafters shouldnt be in the field trying to fight to begin with
and no camp is imposibly hard to get to without duing(hell none of them should even have death on the way to them in general, cept maybe bluefog)

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Bluefog only requires you to run through 2 Scout Vultures (L50) which are sight agro and have a very small agro radius. (hint, go East and approach Bluefog from the south.... its not connected on the map but there is a path there to reach the Aetherite avoiding Diremite tunnel entirely)
Broken Water is the exact same as Bluefog, you can avoid all mobs except 1-3 L50 Scout Vultures.
Crimson Bark requires you to run through 2 L59 Diremites which are sound agro and in the tunnel sections.


Actually, the most dangerous camp to straight up run to now is probably Iron Lake since you have to run through a Raptor area on either side. I'd probably consider Bald Knoll even a more dangerous run than Bluefog if you go the short way (L43 buccaneers, at least in 1.18... not sure what they are now/what is there anymore)