Weeping city of mhach come toxic?

I was never see players as toxic before. They were always nice in finder duty.

But, then I joined Weeping city of mhach. I see many people started rude and rage....

Seems about the usual for week 1 of a new patch to me...

I didn't have that problem.
It just launched so most people are understanding that you may not know all the mechanics so most people I partied with were exchanging tips/things they noticed.
The only problem I have is with Ozmar. Screw that thing.

VA was toxic after the first couple clears after the patch dropped. I didn't expect Mhach to be any different. I might just turn off Alliance chat forever.

well i guess is mostly the frustration, i don't think is a nice thing to act like this, but i can understand how it can be frustrating to see people make the group wipe because they ignore the strategy and redo countless time the same error.
the raid is a bit more challenging and that soo good. the trouble it's show that the level of skill of people are kinda low.

don't get me wrong, i did see people that was there for the first time learn mechanic in 1-2 wipe. avoiding the redo the same error twice, but you have a lot of people that simply ignore the battle mechanic, thinking that them dps are more important than staying alive or avoid to increase the heavy load of work of the healer or tank.

yes i point the dps, but some healer are too bad... they rely on the other healer and often don't want to really work hard or prefer dps while letting one person die.
and i will not forget the people that ignore common sense to not stand in front of the boss and take damage for nothing...

why this situation? mostly because until now, the content outside raid 8 people was almost facerolling. people need to face harder and harder and harder content, slowly progressing from a new player to a good player. but here, a lot of person are still new player... and it create this situation.

I think what you're experiencing is a tremendous level of frustration from players that know the mechanics, but can't seem to get a group of enough people that can clear it.

For example, you spend, say, 50-60 minutes getting to Ozma and then Wipe; raid clears. Do that again just to get to Ozma for the wipe; raid clears again.

Then do that again.

Oh, and keep in mind you have limited game time because you have a full work week, so you've spent a tremendous amount of time (~4 hours wiping to up to/and to Ozma).

Salt shaker spills.

I've only been in once, but everyone was really friendly in my party / alliances. One of the best groups of DF I've been paired with actually.

On patch day I tried the weeping city and 3-4 people quit and the rest of the alliance vote abandoned the duty about half way through.

it's not even about people not having skill....

It's new content...its going to wipe. Just because someone ran it and cleared it a couple times on Day 1 doesn't mean that everyone else is caught up too. You're going to have first timers for WEEKS getting into Mhach, either because they were too busy with other content before (crafting/gathering/housing/etc) or busy work weeks or school, or people like me that tend to put it off because I know the level of bullshit that goes on in the first few hours of the patch launch. You can't start assuming that because its been out a couple days that everyone knows what the mechanics or strategy is.

Less about skill, and more about people are still figuring it out for the first time.

Ah yes, letting other people enjoy the quest of finding out how new content and mechanics are used in PUGs, it does slow you down right? Oooh the horror new content brings; you have searched websites, have read first-week guides, have watched first-week videos and now you might still wipe because many others are actually still fresh and might want to find out for themselves, or just with their friends. Having this experience just few and far between patches doesn't really help either, it's better you enrage yourself end explode in Alliance chat, right.

24man launches -> People who know/figure out how mechanics work get mad at others for not knowing, instead of teaching they just yell at everyone or leave.
Guides come out -> Most people know what to do, those that don't watch the guides are either ignored and carried or kicked.
A week or 2 later -> Everyone knows what they're doing, it's faceroll, zzzz.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

On patch day I tried the weeping city and 3-4 people quit and the rest of the alliance vote abandoned the duty about half way through.

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This isn't uncommon with new content. Got passed Ozma with my first group, but ran out of time on the last boss. Took literally 9 hours to get a group that didn't VA on Ozma wipes to get a clear.

The times I went in Weeping City the alliances was very friendly

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Originally Posted by eschaton

Ah yes, letting other people enjoy the quest of finding out how new content and mechanics are used in PUGs, it does slow you down right? Oooh the horror new content brings; you have searched websites, have read first-week guides, have watched first-week videos and now you might still wipe because many others are actually still fresh and might want to find out for themselves, or just with their friends. Having this experience just few and far between patches doesn't really help either, it's better you enrage yourself end explode in Alliance chat, right.

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that really the point here, what i have describe are situation where everyone was not knowing the content and where we didfigure stuff, but when suddenly you begin to notice people that litterally make the raid wipe and ignore the information found by the group.... you can't expect people to simply ignore this.
plus i will be blunt, no one is saying go see a video, often people give pointer for the gimmick...saying you want to find alone in a multiplayer game is rude to the other member of the group. worst is almost insulting to the people taking time to explain what they did learn throught wipe and such. it's not a solo game. if someone explain the combat be happy, because not everyone is as nice.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

24man launches -> People who know/figure out how mechanics work get mad at others for not knowing, instead of teaching they just yell at everyone or leave.

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actually is often worst than this... some people don't want to try to do the challenge. like they don't do them cycle, stay in aoe because they have healer and such... i don't support bad comportement, but i can understand the frustration... not everyone have countless hours available for play, some will try them best to figure and do the fight the best they can. but some don't care, them pleasure come first and that rude.

don't get me wrong, become toxic and begin to scream on people is rude too. i will not say it didn't happend to me, yesterday i was doing last step of faith and we had 2-3 people that was always dying at the same point, ignoring the mechanic of the fight and killing the whole group, when the two other time it was said what to do... then yeah i did said:" for god sake follow the strategy or we will never do it. "

yes it can look rude, but in france we do have a proverb: "your freedom stop where mine begin" when people begin to troll the other by doing what they want kill the group, you can't expect people to be happy. and yes, FF14 have a huge trouble of skill actually. often you can see people with very good stuff get destroyed in dungeon, simply because they did become overconfident and arrogant.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

when suddenly you begin to notice people that litterally make the raid wipe and ignore the information found by the group.... you can't expect people to simply ignore this.

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Some of the instructions get ignored because A.) Due to past toxicity in alliance chat, some people turn it off entirely. B.) Such as last night, the person giving instructions kept posting it line by line, and other chat flooded it out of the chat window, then they pulled. Nobody had time to read it and the party leading it was impatient.

People upset as others inability to learn after repeatedly failing the same mechanic isn't toxicity. It's generally a normal reaction and feeling in such a situation.

Most likely because players want the dungeon done quick like everything else and want their loot and upgrade item.
I will try the nightmare tonight, lol

Toxicity could easily be avoided if people just dismissed the comments that rub them the wrong way. Instead, they engage and just escalate it to a point where no one is willing to buckle. If you feel someone isn't offering anything constructive, move on and offer something constructive yourself. This is what I and several others do, and it results in groups being able to get through content like this.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

People upset as others inability to learn after repeatedly failing the same mechanic isn't toxicity. It's generally a normal reaction and feeling in such a situation.

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Yeah because that new 24 man raid is one 'repeatedly' same mechanic. Obviously. :)

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Originally Posted by Andevom

Toxicity could easily be avoided if people just dismissed the comments that rub them the wrong way. Instead, they engage and just escalate it to a point where no one is willing to buckle. If you feel someone isn't offering anything constructive, move on and offer something constructive yourself. This is what I and several others do, and it results in groups being able to get through content like this.

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Toxicity could be avoided but maybe people shouldn't be toxic? This is not regular frustration, this is people being assholes and enjoying the opportunity to act like that.

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Originally Posted by eschaton

Yeah because that new 24 man raid is one 'repeatedly' same mechanic. Obviously. :)

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Except groups do wipe to one mechanic over and over; I've had it happen, as have most people, I'm sure. People becoming frustrated when others fail to get better isn't uncommon, and you can't really blame them in these cases. I love Weeping City, and I'll run it even if I know people will wipe because it's fun to me, but most just want their 240 gear and want to be done for the week.

nowadays pple just want things on a silver platter.
Same with instances.
If YOU know it, you expect to be given a good team on a silver platter =/
If you DONT know it, you expect its easy enough to clear....

My alliance yesterday tried to help so many people with amazing macros and give out info, sadly half of the people ignored it. You see that's also a problem, people not listening. The fights are easy, so just listen. Sometimes I wonder if there are more than 4 bosses or simply we have 12 adds in each boss.

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Originally Posted by eschaton

Yeah because that new 24 man raid is one 'repeatedly' same mechanic. Obviously. :)

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That's exactly my point; they're not. Yet people will smash their faces unsuccessfully at the same mechanic over and over again, unable to adapt or learn from a mistake. It's completely understandable if others would be irritated at this.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

My alliance yesterday tried to help so many people with amazing macros and give out info, sadly half of the people ignored it. You see that's also a problem, people not listening. The fights are easy, so just listen. Sometimes I wonder if there are more than 4 bosses or simply we have 12 adds in each boss.

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First time I ran it, I turned off alliance chat because I wanted to figure out the mechanics on my own. Not saying everyone who "doesn't listen" is the same way, but...the fight has only been out for like 54 hours. Let people experience it and possibly enjoy figuring it out on their own.

I cleared the first day and everyone was nice and communicating.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

First time I ran it, I turned off alliance chat because I wanted to figure out the mechanics on my own. Not saying everyone who "doesn't listen" is the same way, but...the fight has only been out for like 54 hours. Let people experience it and possibly enjoy figuring it out on their own.

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Yes ofc, but I talk about people who been there plenty of times. Not newcommers. Even I went in blind and didn't need it explained to me, the mechanics are somewhat from other fights we seen before, what coudl possibly hard? I know and it's acceptable people want to know on their own, but keep in mind if you keep die and don't know how, you should ask and not ignore.

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Originally Posted by OwlBlackX

I was never see players as toxic before. They were always nice in finder duty.

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You have to be new haha, wish I had that luck.

Everytime a semi tricky (not hard but 'tricky' since its new) instance comes out, it gets us back to the fundamentals of what FF is.
A lot of patience, adaptability, and focus. >.>
A rare trait in most MMOs now, thus the 'toxic' thing. Im guessing they come from the 'pew pew' games.

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Originally Posted by odie

it's not even about people not having skill....

It's new content...its going to wipe. Just because someone ran it and cleared it a couple times on Day 1 doesn't mean that everyone else is caught up too. You're going to have first timers for WEEKS getting into Mhach, either because they were too busy with other content before (crafting/gathering/housing/etc) or busy work weeks or school, or people like me that tend to put it off because I know the level of bullshit that goes on in the first few hours of the patch launch. You can't start assuming that because its been out a couple days that everyone knows what the mechanics or strategy is.

Less about skill, and more about people are still figuring it out for the first time.

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The issue isn't the content but the players. They have no patience and with the abandon duty thing it makes doing the city a nightmare, as the functionality is being used as soon as there is a wipe.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

First time I ran it, I turned off alliance chat because I wanted to figure out the mechanics on my own. Not saying everyone who "doesn't listen" is the same way, but...the fight has only been out for like 54 hours. Let people experience it and possibly enjoy figuring it out on their own.

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i can understand your point, however... you are not alone, its a multiplayer game, you are into a team.... a raid, 23 other people can depend of your capacity to work with them... the time to shut down the alliance chat... you are playing alone and abandonning yourteam. i find it rude, i can understand your point, but you must understand that it's not a solo game...

maybe i'm too much old school.. but for me in raid, i must do my best for help my team. means communicate, listen advice.... and more important try my best to do what is needed to be done. for me, in raid, i'm not alone anymore, i can't be selfish and ignore my whole team simply because... i don't want to be spoil.
it's not having all handed on a silver plate, it's working together for get better. i did try the raid almost at the release of the patch, we didn't finish, we did fail on ozma at 5 % but we did communicate, we did try to figure everything together. we didn't ignore each other. it was amazing. no one was toxic or unhappy, we was working together. i will maybe never meet this people again. but it was soo great to pass the boss because we did figure how it work in team.

yeah as the time pass, more and more people will know the gimmick and mechanic of the boss. but that a given, if you want to discover this sort of content, you must do this in the first day... after, it's your duty as teammate to communicate and accept advice about a fight. even if everything is said, you have a very high chance to miss something and die. but at least, you will be with your team.

i will say it one more time, it's a MULTIPLAYER game... the moment you ignore the rest of the team.... you fail the other and i will be blunt, deserve to kicked of the group. because the other will try to work together.

your pleasure mustn't affect the pleasure of the other member of the group

no one ask you to go see a video, but to accept to have people give advice. ignore them is for me extremely rude if not... insulting them good will.

Cleared on first day with DF. Got to the final boss with about 45 minutes left. Which was fortunate as we wiped a few times on her but got the kill. What helped were a short and concise macro at the start of each fight...not a wall of text. The only thing that bothered me during previous runs was Vote Abandons after each wipe. Take your 30 minutes like a man and leave.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

First time I ran it, I turned off alliance chat because I wanted to figure out the mechanics on my own. Not saying everyone who "doesn't listen" is the same way, but...the fight has only been out for like 54 hours. Let people experience it and possibly enjoy figuring it out on their own.

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This is all well and good as long as you know when to ask for help. If you can quickly and reliably figure things out for yourself then by all means do so. However, if the party has wiped numerous times to a fight and you are still one of the people that is face-tanking the floor, perhaps it's time to use the knowledge that others have already acquired through fountains of virtual blood.

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Originally Posted by Dement

This is all well and good as long as you know when to ask for help. If you can quickly and reliably figure things out for yourself then by all means do so. However, if the party has wiped numerous times to a fight and you are still one of the people that is face-tanking the floor, perhaps it's time to use the knowledge that others have already acquired through fountains of virtual blood.

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Excactly and many do that still, not saying Lorelei do it but there are people sadly.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

maybe i'm too much old school.. but for me in raid, i must do my best for help my team. means communicate, listen advice.... and more important try my best to do what is needed to be done. for me, in raid, i'm not alone anymore, i can't be selfish and ignore my whole team simply because... i don't want to be spoil.

snip snip snip

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I would love to buy you a nice Cafe for everything you said in your post. I wish you were on Lamia.

Went in for first time yesterday with 3 FC members (2 of us were new) and overall it went very well. I guess we got lucky.
Aside from getting hit even though i was out of the attack markers it was not too bad.

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Originally Posted by Dement

This is all well and good as long as you know when to ask for help. If you can quickly and reliably figure things out for yourself then by all means do so. However, if the party has wiped numerous times to a fight and you are still one of the people that is face-tanking the floor, perhaps it's time to use the knowledge that others have already acquired through fountains of virtual blood.

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Had guys in TS explain some of the more esoteric mechanics like Megadeath after our first wipe to it, but being veteran raiders most of the stuff was pretty easy to figure out. Still can't say I'm a fan of force-feeding people direction macros when many of them may not want the fights spoiled yet, just because this community lacks patience. When it's weeks-old content, sure, but I feel like for the first week or two you should give new players a bit of a pass. Within 8 hours of the raid being live people were pressing instruction macros for the next boss during the trash that came BEFORE it (so nobody could just pull without their "orders").

This call for patience evidently makes me a selfish dillhole though, according to the posts that have quoted me, so I think I'll just stick to running it myself without complaints...whether people "suck" or are "bad at the game" or "don't listen because they're selfish".

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

This call for patience evidently makes me a selfish dillhole though, according to the posts that have quoted me, so I think I'll just stick to running it myself without complaints...whether people "suck" or are "bad at the game" or "don't listen because they're selfish".

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Nah, I agree with you on this. Its really a balancing act between "thinking you're being helpful by giving tips" and "force spamming long instruction macros that look like small novels and who the *** is going to read that". They did that on my first run and I literally couldnt read it, it was TOO much, so I asked my friend and she explained everything in 2-3 sentences. (Ozma, too). Im the kind of player that understands mechanics after 1-2 deaths. I think we've all experienced that person at work who tries to "help" but ends up making it harder, lol.

This is why I really love big public raids; you are guaranteed to get the best and the worst out of both the elitist and scrub world, and everything in between. Guaranteed, the only question is how and when. This stands for experiences obtained nowhere else in the game as it can be way better than your premade group or it can be way worse. You'll have to find out each time anew. Bring some friends. Can you handle it?

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Originally Posted by Maero

Went in for first time yesterday with 3 FC members (2 of us were new) and overall it went very well. I guess we got lucky.
Aside from getting hit even though i was out of the attack markers it was not too bad.

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I remember this being an issue when the game first launched. Believe it was due to some server side lag or something. Do you still see that happening, or is it because the markers aren't accurate in the raid?