nerf war in feast

Dont know why your give the warr the dmg output of a dps, 10k dmg in 4 sec + 1 range and melee, is not easy to heal.

- Fell Cleave need minimum 10 sec cooldown or 50% less dmg.

https://xivpvp.com/feast/match/39928#sort=8-1

Take their dmg from WAR and idk what's left for them lol. 50% less dmg is absolutely not a good idea, Fell cleave isn't an off gcd skill.

As a healer wars are easily delt with save for a few instances. Those instances are double crit fells and when i'm chain cc'd with no purify in sight. You always want to remove the debuff asap. Luckily wars are read like open books and you can usually tell when they will combo you. the healers should be reacting accordingly if they cant react odds are theyre either new or you need to purify them. I think war is in a very good place atm imho.

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Originally Posted by Redfame

Fell Cleave need minimum 10 sec cooldown

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That sounds like a really sensible kind of balance adjustment. Don't take away warrior's big potency attack, but do prevent them from doing it so often.

Could dark knight maybe get the opposite? Shorten the recast timer on calve and spit? Apply it to both pvp and pve.

I haven't played much PVP but I do play WAR and know the rotation. giving it a 10 second cooldown would destroy the point of the skill, one which takes a lot of build up to unleash (5 abandon stacks), and is, by design, a GCD skill. If you are worried about a triple fell cleave then CC is your friend.

If you REALLY want a nerf WARs damage, then increasing the duration of Infuriate from 60 to 120 would go a long way in achieving this because there would be less fell cleaves possible.

Edit: I had a proper look at your link, and I do have experience with PLD in PVP so I can draw from that. You say that WAR is difficult to heal through, but your team has a PLD, which is just as powerful, if not (in my biased opinion) more powerful due to it's utility toolkit. With PLDs toolkit, they can almost act like a weaker SCH (giving your team 1.5 healers to their 2.5 DPS) with divine veil, stoneskin, and clemency at their disposal, not to mention the fact that they have a GCD stun, and a silence and mitigation through the roof. A good PLD can put a high damaging WAR on lockdown easily.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

If you REALLY want a nerf WARs damage, then increasing the duration of Infuriate from 60 to 120 would go a long way in achieving this because there would be less fell cleaves possible.

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Ah that makes sense. Well it doesn't seem like the dev team want to nerf warrior anyway. They've long allowed it to have a big dps advantage among tanks. Part of me feels like something should change for balance, but at least they are planning another DRK buff of some kind.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Ah that makes sense. Well it doesn't seem like the dev team want to nerf warrior anyway. They've long allowed it to have a big dps advantage among tanks. Part of me feels like something should change for balance, but at least they are planning another DRK buff of some kind.

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As I explained about PLD, WAR isn't overpowered, tanks are just powerful in general. DRK just needs to find it's place with a buff/design overhaul.

tanks already got nerfed hard, fell cleaves used to crit for what? a ton more im sure, just be glad they havent made healers split their healing potency between piety and mind to "ensure that piety is a stat worth using". then again they already robbed healers of cleric stance, same day i stopped pvping as a healer actually, imagine that

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

tanks already got nerfed hard, fell cleaves used to crit for what? a ton more im sure, just be glad they havent made healers split their healing potency between piety and mind to "ensure that piety is a stat worth using". then again they already robbed healers of cleric stance, same day i stopped pvping as a healer actually, imagine that

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I actually did the same untill the feast. Cleric stance in wolves den felt amazing and was super micro intensive. If i had cleric i could probably carry some of the lower tier players. Instead i just have to twiddle my thumbs as my team fails to kill anyone in the alloted time.

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Originally Posted by SaveTheSunF1R3x

I actually did the same untill the feast. Cleric stance in wolves den felt amazing and was super micro intensive. If i had cleric i could probably carry some of the lower tier players. Instead i just have to twiddle my thumbs as my team fails to kill anyone in the alloted time.

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They're a big fan of nerfing skills into the ground because lesser skilled players can't handle things. Cleric stance was fun. Yes, there were some moments of stupidity, like 8 WHMs spamming Holy. But that was really no different than any other group flinging AoEs into a pile of players.

I would rather be a healer with the enemy tank being a warrior, rather than a pld. I can easily counter a wars sudden damage output, especially if I have an instant heal up. Plds, nope, because of those 3 stuns in a row, + silence, + knockback. It's nasty.

War dmg is unbalanced. It's too much especially if coupled with a melee. For a tank they shouldn't really do that much dmg.

Both war and pld are good. Pld for the utility. Cover is amazing. The stupid stun locks the silence... Clemency.

Anyway tanks shouldn't really burst that much dmg. :/

You take away war dmg even further though and all of a sudden PLD becomes the only real viable tank while war joins DRK in pvp obscurity.

If your getting solo'd by a warrior as a healer you should be looking at yourself.

no healer can't say i never get solo by a war, but the best healer don't get kill the same way as before, because he know how the war rotation work and read what the war is doing.
i will tell the same if a nerf of the war damages happen, pld would be the only good tank

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Originally Posted by konage

If your getting solo'd by a warrior as a healer you should be looking at yourself.

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85% health (~9k hp). Purify on CD because I can't just let the first Fell Cleave hit me with Full Swing and Storm's Eye still on me.

Fell Cleave (Crit, 3500). Brutal Swing (800). Autoattack (500). Fell Cleave (Crit, 3500). Attunement. Mercy Stroke (crit, 1300).

{Good game!}

And that's without any ambient damage or help. Burst damage is unreasonable to heal through, but Warrior is a symptom, rather than the cause.

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Originally Posted by Kyani

Fell Cleave (Crit, 3500). Brutal Swing (800). Autoattack (500). Fell Cleave (Crit, 3500). Attunement. Mercy Stroke (crit, 1300).

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Nevermind when you have to use your purify for something else and that crit is actually 4 or even 5k.

The issue really is with double crits... A single crit and I'll usually live without any issue. I'm not sure exactly what crit percentage a warrior with capped crit should get, but it's not rare to see 30-40% through a whole game, so the chance of it happening is far from negligible.

Fell Cleave can crit for 5k with Balance from AST plus ATK buff.

<3 WAR <3

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Originally Posted by Kyani

85% health (~9k hp). Purify on CD because I can't just let the first Fell Cleave hit me with Full Swing and Storm's Eye still on me.

Fell Cleave (Crit, 3500). Brutal Swing (800). Autoattack (500). Fell Cleave (Crit, 3500). Attunement. Mercy Stroke (crit, 1300).

{Good game!}

And that's without any ambient damage or help. Burst damage is unreasonable to heal through, but Warrior is a symptom, rather than the cause.

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Most of the cleaves hit for like 4,5k but tbh purify fullswing or make a macro so ppl know u need purify. You shouldnt waste purify on sleep (let someone else purify you) unless you know the war cant burst you atm.

I don't think there's any problem with warrior damage. Healers have just been buffed so much that only warrior is able to keep up. We should really be asking for paladin buffs not warrior nerfs.

http://s33.postimg.org/3nedvwmwf/ffx...016_150359.jpg

I got hit for 9k from a warrior,
I agree, they need to be nerfed.

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Originally Posted by lafayette

http://s33.postimg.org/3nedvwmwf/ffx...016_150359.jpg

I got hit for 9k from a warrior,
I agree, they need to be nerfed.

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Working as intended since you obviously had 8-10 stacks of heavy medal

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Originally Posted by ArianneMartellMateus

I don't think there's any problem with warrior damage. Healers have just been buffed so much that only warrior is able to keep up. We should really be asking for paladin buffs not warrior nerfs.

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Ehhh..... PLDs can stop a healer for healing for around 10seconds if they time their stuns right. Pretty sure PLDs don't need a buff. Drks could use a buff though.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Ehhh..... PLDs can stop a healer for healing for around 10seconds if they time their stuns right. Pretty sure PLDs don't need a buff. Drks could use a buff though.

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Pld could use a few buffs ... in PvE. In PvP they function just fine. Dps need to pick up the dmg slack a little, but that's not anything to start a riot over. War's are also fine. Seeing as how Dps is pretty much their primary (if not only) function, nerfing them doesn't make sense.

Drk's, on the other hand, absolutely require a buff in PvP. I agree with that, 100% because they're next to useless as they are right now. They don't match War's in dmg. They don't come anywhere near Pld's in utility. Having one on the team is pretty much a giveaway spot. That needs to change. Given that SE could make several adjustments to the job which would have absolutely no detrimental effects to the way they function in PvE, I think they're in the best spot for a PvP overhaul. Supposedly, SE is looking into it, and we'll see some form of fix before the next season. I just hope it's not too little too late. I'd like to get some use out of my Drk in Shatter when it comes out.

DRKs need a buff in the Feast. That's an important distinction to make. In Seize, they're a monster to face. All of their PvP abilities are designed to do one thing. Enfeeble the enemy. Being able to snare an entire group of people, or kill any attempt at burst, on a 60 second CD, when most burst windows take more than a minute? A DRK is the ultimate force of "NO." Unleash spam on nodes, Purifying Living Dead after 10 seconds of invincibility, the DRK is designed to keep your node at all costs. Which is great... In Seize. In the Feast... While burst stopping is nice, it's the ability to kill your opponents that win games. That's something a DRK doesn't quite have. They have no burst like a WAR, and no ability to lockdown healers like a PLD.

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Originally Posted by Isala

They have no burst like a WAR, and no ability to lockdown healers like a PLD.

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Really makes you wonder if allowing healers in PvP was a good choice. You're pretty much saying:"Your viability in kill centric gamemode directly correlates with your ability to negate healing, either by preventing the healer from taking action or by killing a target faster than the healer can take action."

Ah well...

I think there's only one thing OP, and it's the same bone they threw all physical DPS. Sprint.

Can we have Sprint changed back to the way it was? Or at least free-sprint only available in Feast?

If you did it because Icarus Wings became lucrative gil-farming synthesis (and I got the feeling that is and is the only reason why), then up the recast timer to 5min or something. But the free-Sprinting change was a miss-diagnosed session of chemotherapy to cure a stomach flu.

I really didn't get this change. I guess most people like it though, because I don't see it discussed here (all that matters is getting that Hand of Mercy title easily as possible, amiright? -_-).

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Originally Posted by Februs

Dps need to pick up the dmg slack a little, but that's not anything to start a riot over.

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Not even, WAR does higher damage, while PLD pacifies the healer, both achieve the same goal through two different means. Totally agree that DRK needs changes. It doesn't even need a buff, it needs a reworking, and SE need to work out the direction that they are taking the job pvp wise, as DRK has no purpose or game plan as of now (at least not in comparison to the other two), its just DRK.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Not even, WAR does higher damage, while PLD pacifies the healer, both achieve the same goal through two different means.

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Oh, totally. That's not quite what I meant. As far as War and Pld go, I'd say that they're both fairly well balanced. They just have a different style of play. What I meant was that, during a Pld's full stun rotation, the onus is squarely on the Dps to do 100% of the dmg. Each time I lock down the healer, I'm trusting my Dps to be strong enough to use that time and score a kill. In that way, having a Pld on the team puts a bit more pressure on the Dps to increase their output, because they're on the clock to score that kill (9 seconds and counting). Ideally, though, a Dps should be aiming for maximum output regardless of what kind of tank they get.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

I really didn't get this change. I guess most people like it though, because I don't see it discussed here (all that matters is getting that Hand of Mercy title easily as possible, amiright? -_-).

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People complained when the change was announced. People stopped complaining after it took effect, because, frankly, it didn't really change anything. The change to sprint was a QoL adjustment only, and it's most important effect was that it eased the learning curve for new players.

Before they changed sprint, melee players could already come close to using sprint freely and frequently by slotting Icarus Wings and Enliven onto their hotbars. Use them wisely, and you hardly ever had to concern yourself over sustaining your attack. The only downside was that there was more buttons to push; so, no matter how fluid you got at it, you always suffered a slight delay in your assault. Though, the fact that every melee (aside from Pld) has at least some form of gap closer made it a little easier to work around. Sprint in Frontlines is hardly worth mentioning, because there was more than enough down time between node spawns that you didn't even need items to recharge your Tp. Wolves den was the only real place that it even mattered, but even then the arena was small enough that it didn't make or break anything.

The only thing that the Sprint Tp costs really did was alienate new players from using it, because cycling Icarus Wings and Enliven (as well as invigorate, if you happen to be a Drg), took a lot of practice to do smoothly. Hence, they removed it and not a whole lot of anything changed other than Casters lost their "get out of jail free" card ... which they really shouldn't have had anyway.

It's also good to keep in mind that casters have already been adjusted several times since the removal of Sprint's Tp cost. Their interruption thresholds has been changed to accommodate for this as well as several other PvP adjustments. It's already next to impossible for anything below War's burst level to cause a non-stun/silence related interruption; so, slapping a Tp cost back onto sprint would be one of the most unbalanced things that SE could do in PvP, because they'd have to make several other follow up adjustments just to make things fair. By comparison, I think asking casters to be a little more mindful of their surroundings is the better and simpler alternative.

I personally believe even paladins are no good. I haven't seen one ever get anywhere close to the top ten let alone top 50.

The 4k fell cleaves just do so much more and can compensate better for dps that might be flailing about between targets.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

I personally believe even paladins are no good. I haven't seen one ever get anywhere close to the top ten let alone top 50.

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what!?!? I could have sworn lion played pld???
edit: there's also davyd but idk what he's ranked atm. definitely an exceptional player
edit2: I have been mistaken. My bad :P

no lion plays monk

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Originally Posted by SaveTheSunF1R3x

what!?!? I could have sworn lion played pld???
edit: there's also davyd but idk what he's ranked atm. definitely an exceptional player
edit2: I have been mistaken. My bad :P

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Lion is monk and davyd plays a significant amount of games as war (ive never seen him as pld myself but i'll take ur word for it if you have). There are no PLD in the top 10. Top ten has 4 Monks, 2 Machinists, 1 Dragoon, and three heals. The highest pld main i think is #73 Skrutt Utt. Pld is awesome but you need coordination to take full advantage of it which you wont always get in solo queue. That's why War's are generally the king tank in solo queue

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Originally Posted by Aviars

I personally believe even paladins are no good. I haven't seen one ever get anywhere close to the top ten let alone top 50.

The 4k fell cleaves just do so much more and can compensate better for dps that might be flailing about between targets.

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I have seen a PLD in atleast rank 12 on primal before, and I saw them in the feast playing PLD.

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Originally Posted by Kisangi

It's definitely possible, but to stay on top in Aether, I had to basically non-stop pvp night and day. There were also a lot more people, and I didn't run into as many groups as I seem to do here where we literally couldn't kill anything. Paladin have the capacity to be good, but it's a play style that favors survivability and utility over dps; it's not necessarily the paladin's fault, or makes them bad that the dps aren't focusing a target, or can't kill anything.

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Basically this ^.

I don't play as much as you top rankers do. I only get about an hour or so of playtime; so, I'm lucky to get one or two matches a night, but I can say pretty confidently that Pld's success or failure in Feast is heavily dependent on the team's performance. It doesn't matter how good I am at spreading my stuns out, or how effectively I lock down the healer. If the dps is lacking, then there's nothing that I can really do to help them. I can't execute my full Stun Lock and help with total damage, so I'm purely reliant on the dps to be good at their jobs. If they can't kill a target that I've placed Full Swing on within the 9 seconds I'm suppressing the enemy healer, then I might as well hang my sword up and call it a night.

The same goes for my friendly healer. If the healer is ineffective at kiting enemies or can't keep up with the enemy dps, then it cuts into my performance. Every time I have to fall back to Cover a target (especially the one's who run away from the tether >.>), it costs me utility somewhere else in the field. Every time I have to stun an enemy dps to interrupt their burst, I'm cutting into my overall dps, possibly even destroying my combo potency / DoT placement. It's basically a sliding scale, where Pld is playing the part of the counterweight. If too many pieces aren't lining up, it all falls apart.

I know for a fact that I'm not perfect at the job. I cock things up just as much as the next guy, but being that dependent on your teammates makes it very difficult to maintain a good winning average. That said, it does make the good matches all the more satisfying.

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Originally Posted by Februs

The same goes for my friendly healer. If the healer is ineffective at kiting enemies or can't keep up with the enemy dps, then it cuts into my performance. Every time I have to fall back to Cover a target (especially the one's who run away from the tether >.>), it costs me utility somewhere else in the field. Every time I have to stun an enemy dps to interrupt their burst, I'm cutting into my overall dps, possibly even destroying my combo potency / DoT placement.

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Oh gosh.

"Jophia, why aren't you doing more damage? Use more combos."
"Jophia, why aren't you helping us survive? Cast more absorbs and heals."
"Jophia, why aren't you stunning more enemies? Get up there and lock down healers and casters."
"Jophia, why are you up at the front? Stay back and Cover and protect our healers and peel off them."

I don't even think it's incorrect criticism, it's just overwhelming. I need that move from the Warcraft games where the Panda splits into 3 different units that can act simultaneously.

I guess we are talking a lot of things outside the topic, so I will go back to it... I dont think warriors need a nerf.... Warriors are just fine...

Seems to be polarising.. some people think warrior is fine, some think it's definitely too strong.

Warrior has a stance which increases crit rate, right? and dragoon has party crit buff? do those stack?

Solo play works best with individual performance rather than team performance, Paladins can't really do anything on their own and depend to much on the dps doing their very best while warriors can potentially solo someone on their own.