DRK balance

I know the devs are trying to make the tanks all balanced, as PLD having a lot defensive CD and Party defence, WAR being selfish in dps and good self healing, DRK being DRK? I don't know I see a little difference this Job (DRK) offers, but I like it though, it could probably have a difference by supporting the party, restore their MP (Healers) or maybe absorb party MP for Party support? But I reckon this is being planned for a future Tank job, don't know, maybe?

DRK have the best MT dps and the best anti-magic skill, if the boss have magic tank buster DRK becomes imposible to run out def CD.

if drk absorb party mp healers and casters they hate you forever, DRK need some OT ticks but nothing like that.

the only drk needs is being able to put -10% dmg debuff when not tanking....and lower the CD so it can be up 100% of the time

I love DRK and WAR. DRK is great with magic damage and in general has better damage mitigation than WAR but higher DPS than PLD. I think its meant to be the in between of the tanks the more generalized tank. I like having the INT debuff being the second class that can do it. I don't see a need to change the abilities though I would like to see an Equilibrium type ability for MP gain for when they are in Grit

Problems with DRK are numerous. Living Dead needs tank/healer coordination, DRK has basically no utility as OT and always wants to MT, only 7 out of 22 skills use Dark Arts.

Only Souleater has a Grit effect.

And then you have Parry. Which only matters in MT role. And can still suck.

DRK is okay but definitely could have been done better. Especially when it's just a mish mash of concepts pulled from PLD and WAR making the DRK at times have a lack of identity.

I consider DRK a perfect balance between mitigation and damage. But it have some advantages like more MT dps and more magical mitigation if the boss is magical type. It also have a very high OT DPS, more focused on sustain DPS than burst DPS. I main DRK since 3.0 launch. I was before a PLD/WAR, I won't be again PLD/WAR as main (Samurai tank can chage my mind...)

There are only 3 things that must be adjusted for me.

1. Living Dead need the healer know what is it and how deal with it. That's not possible always, it need chage is invulnerability effect to something easier to handle.

2. Grit should be out of global coldown like the warrior Defiance, it makes hard chage stances quick.

3. Dark Arts should have less cost. The MP drain with this is too high and you can run out of MP accidentally a lot of times.

I agree with Magius here, plus I find the MP drain gimmick very annoying. It's not hard or even interesting at all, it feels more like they wanted to make them different by giving them a silly gimmick. I would've preferred if they made DRK consume mana instead of TP for their skills: now THAT would have been a nice gimmick to have. Or at least less annoying to have.

Plus, they were supposed to be anti-magic tanks but they have "A" magic resistance skill (and only lasts 10 seconds) and basically have nothing that makes them different than a PLD. Except their long sword and a lot more of OGCD skills I guess.

I really hope they're going to work on them because as of now I really don't think I'll move away from my warrior or paladin: If I want damage I go the former, and if I want tankiness I got the latter.

A healer who knows their business should know how to handle Living Dead.

Being able to stance swap outside the GCD is one of WAR's thing and probably a feature of it being the Damage dealing tank. PLDs stance swap requires a GCD too.

If Dark Arts cost less they would have to nerf its effects. Its balanced around not being able to spam it easily. One of the core mechanics of the class is supposed to be MP management.

The main issue I see with DRK is the overarching issue with Parry. Hopefully when they revisit the stat they will find a way to make it more workable.

All tanks have things they are better at. DRK sits around the middle between WAR and PLD with more in the way of defensive CDs and higher dps than paladins while having solid self healing abilities and stronger magical mitigation than either due to their CDs. They are certainly in no way the 'weak' tank Job.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

A healer who knows their business should know how to handle Living Dead.

Being able to stance swap outside the GCD is one of WAR's thing and probably a feature of it being the Damage dealing tank. PLDs stance swap requires a GCD too.

If Dark Arts cost less they would have to nerf its effects. Its balanced around not being able to spam it easily. One of the core mechanics of the class is supposed to be MP management.

The main issue I see with DRK is the overarching issue with Parry. Hopefully when they revisit the stat they will find a way to make it more workable.

All tanks have things they are better at. DRK sits around the middle between WAR and PLD with more in the way of defensive CDs and higher dps than paladins while having solid self healing abilities and stronger magical mitigation than either due to their CDs. They are certainly in no way the 'weak' tank Job.

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Living Dead and Soul Survivor have no effect, so in an actually fight without voice communication you will not be able to tell your party easily what to do. Actually I would argue Warriors having stronger magical mitigation due to being able to -20% every time a big hit comes as well as their other temps, warriors also have much better on demand lifetaps.

If the healer is dead what use does LD have other then prolonging that wipe?

For me DRK is a very fun tank to play, but there are some things pissing me off and just don't make any sense. To start with, both the other tanks have some kind of ultimate defense skill, DRK's ultimate defense skill " Living Dead" is hard to use especially in PUG situations. 50% of the times i've used it i died cause healer didn't notice it to fully heal me. Of course you can use macros warning people etc but a lot of times even that won't help.

Next, the MP management issue, the amount of focus you need to have in order to output good dps and not to run out of mana is stupid, they could have made the whole process less annoying. A Lot of DRK's just end up not using half their skills cause they cant be arsed to MP micro manage in every pull, it gets very tiresome after some time.

I believe with some balance between those 2 factors DRK will be in a perfect place to play.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Living Dead and Soul Survivor have no effect, so in an actually fight without voice communication you will not be able to tell your party easily what to do. Actually I would argue Warriors having stronger magical mitigation due to being able to -20% every time a big hit comes as well as their other temps, warriors also have much better on demand lifetaps.

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You can't have -20% "every time a big hit comes" if they come more often than 8 GCD's (unless you're planning to burn other cooldowns for stacks) or if you're using your stacks for anything but Inner Beast. Stack management is the core concept of Warrior just like mana management is for Dark Knight. I'm not really sure what you mean by Living Dead having "no effect" though; if you mean that it has no buff icon, you're completely wrong. Both Living Dead and Walking Dead have easily recognizable icons. Sole Survivor also leaves a debuff icon on the mob that you use it on. You just need to communicate with your party more.

i would like to see a lot more MP on the Drk or reduced MP cost. either one, i just feel like its a gimp melee tank, and gimp caster tank combined... one side needs a buff. hopefully caster side

I have a few gripes with Dark Knight at this point;

MP management - This was fine before the last update, but now with Dark Arts on a 3 second cooldown, you can fit a few more things in (a Dark Arts Dark Passenger for example) which increase MP drain. Could do with either some stronger MP recovery, or lower Dark Arts cost at this point.

Evasion - Dark Arts Dark Dance + Dark Arts Dark Passenger is a great evasion combo. Unfortunately, Dark Knight isn't built around evasion. Blood Price requires you to take a hit, but that's fine, you can time Blood Price when Dark Dance and Dark Passenger are on cooldown. Reprisal and Low Blows, however, require a parry, not a dodge. I feel like they should also trigger from dodges, given we have such a strong evasion combo...

Blood Price - Like I said, requires you to take a hit to restore MP. You can avoid using it with the aforementioned combo, but sometimes you'll evade hits anyway... I'd quite like this to have "Reduces evasion to 0" or something similar, just so you absolutely always get the most out of it... Perhaps add some slight mitigation to it as well, to make up for the removal of evasion.

Dark Arts - Perhaps to help justify a reduced MP cost/better MP recovery, I'd quite like to see more skills given additional effects with Dark Arts... Blood Price and Blood Weapon could switch from MP recovery to HP recovery with Dark Arts. Sole Survivor could reverse its effect; If you die during its duration, the target takes damage? Slap a DoT on Unmend? Vengeance style effect on Shadow Wall? Just like Ninjutsu (which has 15 potential executions, but only 7 effects), there is a lot you could do with Dark Arts but currently aren't...

Cross Class skills - I kinda want Lancer skills instead of Marauder... Keen Flurry for obvious reasons, Feint would be nice in PvP, and if any tank was going to forgo defense in favour of attack, its Dark Knight. Invigorate is less desired these days, since they reduced TP costs, but prior to those changes I certainly wanted this... Meanwhile, all Marauder offers is Mercy Stroke (granted, this stacks nicely with Sole Survivor), Foresight which is OK, and Bloodbath, which is as fitting to Dark Knight as Blood for Blood, but we could get the same thing out of Dark Arts Blood Weapon... Need Provoke, Awareness is nice with Dark Dance, and Convalescence is great in general but really helpful for Living Dead.

On that last point though, I think cross class skills need an overhaul anyway... It's a really boring system at the moment, letting us pick from 3 classes would actually put some element of choice in which would be great, but really I don't want to use another Jobs skills... I'd rather have a series of Job quests that unlock replacement skills... So rather than having Provoke on Dark Knight, we could have something unique (perhaps something akin to a very potent reverse Shadewalker?) that could even work with Job specific mechanics. So Dark Knight could have unique versions of its cross class skills with Dark Arts effects (Dark Arts "Convalescence" could improve the MP recovery on Blood Price/Weapon and Siphon Strike, for example), Ninja could have a version of Second Wind that has different effects based on the venom being used, Scholar and Summoner could have an cross class skills that involve Aetherflow (either using it up, or granted an extra stack), and so on. Just have the quests to unlock these involve the class guild the skill originated from (so Dark Knights version of Provoke requires you to have completed the Lv30 Gladiator quest, for example).

Only one QOL feature I want to see... Darkside should NOT cancel out MP regeneration skills and abilities. Ballad and The Ewer should be useable.

blood prices should be a trait , permanent and maybe recover a bit less , or make it like WHM mp recover ...slow and steady mp recover , would help a lot even non tanking (aoe raid dmg )

the lvl 60 skill ....cool animation ...thats it...another CD to keep track of , or another button to press every X ....meh.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

the lvl 60 skill ....cool animation ...thats it...another CD to keep track of , or another button to press every X ....meh.

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You know Carve and Split is 450 potency when use with Dark Arts, no? And can be use to recover MP if you're low of MP . The MP recover is a shit (should be higher) But the damage is not precisely "meh". Is one of the best DPS skills alongside Soul Eater which is 400 potency with Dark Arts.

Either reduce MP cost from dark arts or increase maximum MP pool.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

If the healer is dead what use does LD have other then prolonging that wipe?

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It'll still last a total of 4-14 seconds "longer" than Holmgang would.

Holmgang has the exact same problem, only instead of being reduced to 1 hp and then living for 10s before we die, we're reduced to 1 hp and then die when Holmgang wears off in another 2-4 seconds.

LD is objectively better as a tank "oh sh*t" CD, since Walking Dead lasts almost twice as long as Holmgang does. Yes, you need healer coordination, but that's rather easily solved with a macro (make it separate from hitting LD if you're worried about macro lag).

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Originally Posted by Quor

LD is objectively better as a tank "oh sh*t" CD, since Walking Dead lasts almost twice as long as Holmgang does. Yes, you need healer coordination, but that's rather easily solved with a macro (make it separate from hitting LD if you're worried about macro lag).

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If you're a WHM with Benediction ready, yes it is better. If not then you're going to struggle, especially nowadays where tanks are going full vit. Before at least they had less hp due to the strength gear they had to get, meaning less hp to recovery. But now? It's insanely high for one thing and they will "start" from 1 hp, meaning that you have to heal 20k hp (more or less) in less than 10 seconds AND while the boss is still attacking, most likely negating one of your heals if the boss can hit for more than 5k damage (and I can even name a few).

And sure, while my AST can heal 5k with benefic 2, I have to do that within 10 seconds which means I have to cast it 4 times in a row: miss one and the tank is dead at 80-90%

Sure it can be fixed with a macro, but why not fix the skill itself? Maybe increase the healing taken by 100% during Walking Dead or lower the hp required to 50% instead, because it's highly unreliable as of now. Holmgang at least doesn't kill you while at 99% of hp!

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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MP management - This was fine before the last update, but now with Dark Arts on a 3 second cooldown, you can fit a few more things in (a Dark Arts Dark Passenger for example) which increase MP drain. Could do with either some stronger MP recovery, or lower Dark Arts cost at this point.

...

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Dark Arts change doesn't really impact the rotation that much.

Just because you can use Dark Arts more in a small time frame, doesn't mean you should.

Dark Arts Dark Passenger is still poor usage of your mana as far as single target is concerned. All the change really did was improve quality of life for DRK. An example like, for some reason you needed a Dark Arts Dark Mind now, but just came off using Dark Arts for CnS/SE. Now you can do it 2 seconds earlier in those situations.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

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You know Carve and Split is 450 potency when use with Dark Arts, no? And can be use to recover MP if you're low of MP . The MP recover is a shit (should be higher) But the damage is not precisely "meh". Is one of the best DPS skills alongside Soul Eater which is 400 potency with Dark Arts.

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You know what I'd like? Since the animation is very clearly three distinct hits, I'd like Carve and Spit to function the same as Dream Within a Dream, which is actually three hits. Do that for Carve and Spit, then you've tripled its base MP recovery, because now it's three actual hits. Would need to change the potency somewhat though, since splitting its current 100 base potency into three hits would be messy. Threefold attack with 50 potency each, 150 with Dark Arts? Then it goes from 100/450 to 150/450 total.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Either reduce MP cost from dark arts or increase maximum MP pool.

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My biggest disappointment with this game has to be how stats are handled... Tanks now get to use VIT and STR, but I'd still much rather have had a situation where most Jobs make use of a different combination of stats; Dark Knight could be VIT/PIE (more MP), Paladin VIT/MND (stronger Cure they never use because the developers are too lazy to justify that Conjurer cross class option), Warrior VIT/STR (since they're really the DPS tank). Wouldn't work with the way gear is handled in this game though, people would get upset for the same reason people disliked Esoterics, might have been something with the new materia slots...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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My biggest disappointment with this game has to be how stats are handled... Tanks now get to use VIT and STR, but I'd still much rather have had a situation where most Jobs make use of a different combination of stats; Dark Knight could be VIT/PIE (more MP), Paladin VIT/MND (stronger Cure they never use because the developers are too lazy to justify that Conjurer cross class option), Warrior VIT/STR (since they're really the DPS tank). Wouldn't work with the way gear is handled in this game though, people would get upset for the same reason people disliked Esoterics, might have been something with the new materia slots...

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If this is under the current Stat weights, then PLDs and DRKs would lose something like 40% of their attack power, further cementing WAR/WAR compositions. PLD? I doubt they would give up half their attack power to sometimes use Cure more effectively. Nor would DRKs choose to lose 40% across the board to use Dark Arts a couple more times.

This will also break several skills, lifesteals, and aggro generation just to accommodate Cure. Having more MP for DRK only really just increases the amount of MP in their opener. As far as I know, your rate of mana regeneration doesn't increase with a larger MP pool. At best you can fit in what, 1 or 2 more Dark Arts?

You'd either bloat loot tables with 'PLD gear or DRK gear' or bloat stats on Tank Gear which either make no sense, or are really just pointless clutter. If you throw AP on PIE and MND, then WAR loses out by having stats affect it the least, putting them below DRK and PLD(not really) for loot consideration.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

If this is under the current Stat weights, then PLDs and DRKs would lose something like 40% of their attack power, further cementing WAR/WAR compositions. PLD? I doubt they would give up half their attack power to sometimes use Cure more effectively. Nor would DRKs choose to lose 40% across the board to use Dark Arts a couple more times.

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No way am I suggesting this under the current stat weights... You'd swap STR for MND or PIE, Paladin would get half its attack power from MND instead of STR, Dark Knight from PIE instead of STR. They've essentially gotten around Paladin using MND with Clemency, though.

Only real issue is gear bloat and gear set space. With Esoterics we already had separate sets for each Job, I'm essentially suggesting that just with the stats being different, rather than it being solely for glamour. With the way gear is locked out though, that certainly wouldn't be a popular change. Still, I'd rather see Jobs gear for different stats, rather than the current sorry state of everyone gearing essentially the same thing... I actually find myself preferring sets like Esoterics just because the glamour system is so flawed for tanks/healers...

Pretty much how 1.23 worked, come to think of it... Every Job used to have two main stats impacting their attack powers, things feel dumbed down these days...

I always relish in telling my friends that Dexterity only adds damage to physical ranged casters and Ninja and has nothing to do with evasion. Or how the spells of DRK scale off of STR(or is it VIT now?) instead of INT. Their reactions are priceless since we all play DnD. Which really just illustrates how ability scores in this game are handled. It's atrocious. Linear stat progression up the ass.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I always relish in telling my friends that Dexterity only adds damage to physical ranged casters and Ninja and has nothing to do with evasion. Or how the spells of DRK scale off of STR(or is it VIT now?) instead of INT. Their reactions are priceless since we all play DnD. Which really just illustrates how ability scores in this game are handled. It's atrocious. Linear stat progression up the ass.

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It's different than D&D = it's atrocious? Okay. Honestly, I like how simple our stats are. The stat system does what it's supposed to do. There's plenty of people that don't want to have to sit comparing tank pieces for evasion and blocking and a bunch of other crap. We already have Accuracy caps to worry about and from there it's just optimizing for damage. Even if we had more options due to differing secondary stats (or even primary stats), the number crunchers out on reddit would simply figure out the optimal setup and everything else would fall by the wayside. It's better that dex doesn't affect tank skills at all because tanks can't need roll on dex accessories anyway. That's the reason they finally fixed Vitality; tanks weren't even using their designated accessories and that was a fundamental flaw with the way the system was designed.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

If you're a WHM with Benediction ready, yes it is better. If not then you're going to struggle, especially nowadays where tanks are going full vit. Before at least they had less hp due to the strength gear they had to get, meaning less hp to recovery. But now? It's insanely high for one thing and they will "start" from 1 hp, meaning that you have to heal 20k hp (more or less) in less than 10 seconds AND while the boss is still attacking, most likely negating one of your heals if the boss can hit for more than 5k damage (and I can even name a few).

And sure, while my AST can heal 5k with benefic 2, I have to do that within 10 seconds which means I have to cast it 4 times in a row: miss one and the tank is dead at 80-90%

Sure it can be fixed with a macro, but why not fix the skill itself? Maybe increase the healing taken by 100% during Walking Dead or lower the hp required to 50% instead, because it's highly unreliable as of now. Holmgang at least doesn't kill you while at 99% of hp!

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All true. But also important is that Holmgang has 4s lower duration, on a tank with no natural damage reduction in tank stance. So part of the execution in Walking Dead is to get the OT to step up long enough to get the DRK back to stability.

The same, of course, can be said for Holmgang. But you still have to account for an extra 4s of "hah hah you can't kill me" that LD grants. While it does suck to lose an LD DRK at 99%, there are just as many downsides to Holmgang as there are to WD/LD.

WD/LD also doesn't root you in place, preventing any movement (including turning). Most people have no idea how annoying that is. I'd really like if WAR got an actual "oh sh*t" ability instead of the band-aid that was applied to Holmgang nearly two years ago.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

It's different than D&D = it's atrocious? Okay. Honestly, I like how simple our stats are. The stat system does what it's supposed to do. There's plenty of people that don't want to have to sit comparing tank pieces for evasion and blocking and a bunch of other crap. We already have Accuracy caps to worry about and from there it's just optimizing for damage. Even if we had more options due to differing secondary stats (or even primary stats), the number crunchers out on reddit would simply figure out the optimal setup and everything else would fall by the wayside. It's better that dex doesn't affect tank skills at all because tanks can't need roll on dex accessories anyway. That's the reason they finally fixed Vitality; tanks weren't even using their designated accessories and that was a fundamental flaw with the way the system was designed.

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What you mean to say is they homogenized the jobs even more by making them rely on just one stat and the only slight customization you have is strength on accessories and secondaries. Which for tanks is even less considering many won't even look at Parry due to how wonderful it is. If they just want you to rely on one stat why have any other stat at all? Same reason with all those elemental resistances sitting at 280ish and the same with your physical resistances sitting at 0 for everything.

I'm glad you like it simple but it offers little room for diversity in playstyle. Which you had in several other RPG's. FF included. Hell FF Explorers does a better fucking job at being a what they referred as a lite version of FFXI and everything is simply fantastic?

Look, people keep talkin about needing more MP or making Dark Arts cheaper.

If SQ gave Dark Knights more MP or made Dark Arts cheaper they would have to either put a higher CD on Dark Arts, limiting the flexibility of its use or nerf the effect Dark Arts has.

Why?

Because Dark Knights are currently balanced against the other tanks with the MP cost vs the effectiveness of Dark Arts in mind. Dark Arts isn't something your supposed to be spaming. Its supposed to be a periodic boost to existing skills. Managing that boost is part of the skill of playing a DRK.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

What you mean to say is they homogenized the jobs even more by making them rely on just one stat and the only slight customization you have is strength on accessories and secondaries. Which for tanks is even less considering many won't even look at Parry due to how wonderful it is. If they just want you to rely on one stat why have any other stat at all? Same reason with all those elemental resistances sitting at 280ish and the same with your physical resistances sitting at 0 for everything.

I'm glad you like it simple but it offers little room for diversity in playstyle. Which you had in several other RPG's. FF included. Hell FF Explorers does a better fucking job at being a what they referred as a lite version of FFXI and everything is simply fantastic?

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Honestly that really has little to do with DRK balance. However Yoshi P has said that he prefers to offer variety by offering more job types. Very few of the Jobs play that similar to each other so stats doesn't really cause homogenization except perhaps with gear availability and with a computer game, particularly one balanced like this, having clearly defined Jobs, abilities and roles makes the game more accessible and keeps the game well balanced. More customisation of abilities and power almost always has a negative impact on balance and no one likes it when their favourite class/Job feels weaker than the others.

That said, FF14 could do with a bit less rigidity and some things like Parry definitely need fixing. While they said they don't intend to offer anything notable in Job customisation, I wouldn't say they would never do it cause with game design things are always changing and its not like they can just keep giving us more skills to find space on the skill bar for every 10 levels.

Back on topic however I hope by the expansion they really give DRK a look over and not hope making some slight change to Parry will fix all their problems.

Especially when it comes to OT role and Living Dead as a skill. Such a drain on the healer and if full HP total isn't restored the DRK just dies and then you have to waste more MP to res the DRK if you aren't already dead and usually if I have to use Living Dead the healer is well dead and it's because DPS failed a mechanic big time.

You can macro it but it's much more efficient to have a healer buddy with a vocal channel open. Things go a lot smoother. But in Pug's? Good luck.

I am tired but I really do not see the complaints some of you are bringing up. Unless your blowing Dark Arts every 3 secs when main tanking then of course your going to have issues with your MP but I am currently running Midas Savage (We cleared Midas 5 last week but had some issues and started late) and can Tank it with zero issues along with our Warrior OTing. Living dead has saved us a few times and if you know to use the right skills in conjunction such as convalescence your healers can easily squeeze more DPS out and still top ya off right when you going into Walking Dead. I say keep them as they are.

as the tank get more and more hp i think the fact to bring back the dark knight to 100% hp is crazy, he continue to take damage and if the healer can't get you back full life you are done for. personally i avoid to use it, i prefer die, it's more a bother than a help. only a white mage can really deal with it efficiently. i feel they need to reduce the goal of 100% hp to 60-75% hp for be more realistic.
because soo far, LD can kill you and that not normal for a cd of last hope.

indeed holmang make you unable to move, but at the end of holmang you will not drop dead because your healer (ast/sch) can't get you full life in time. plus, the warrior have a couple of skill for get back hp far more efficient than DRK. as tank i find LD too much a pain than being a CD of last hope...

other QoL that i want to see come is when you are out of fight the aura must'nt consume mana... it's idiot. we can still cut it, but since it cost more of 1200 of our mp for put it back is kinda pointless. and i still fail to understand why as dark knight we can't have dark aura that will drain life or mana of the enemy surrounding us... the mana regeneration can be a pain, especially with a white mage (while the pack pull) if it spam Holy, bye bye the mana since the enemy are stun and don't attack you. (and tell me don't use AoE, Holy generate tons of hate)

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

as the tank get more and more hp i think the fact to bring back the dark knight to 100% hp is crazy, he continue to take damage and if the healer can't get you back full life you are done for

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The 100% HP heal refers to how much they need to be healed in total. You do not need to heal us to max, just simply make sure if we have 25k HP max that we receive 25k healing within that 10sec.

Heal us for 15k, we take a 4k hit, heal for 10k. Were cured and good to go.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

QoL that i want to see come is when you are out of fight the aura must'nt consume mana... it's idiot. we can still cut it, but since it cost more of 1200 of our mp for put it back is kinda pointless

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Unless your talking about your Tank stance of Grit (which costs about 1300 but drains no mana over time), Darkside only consumes about 400 and you refresh more than you consume when out of battle so your not taking a big hit.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

as the tank get more and more hp i think the fact to bring back the dark knight to 100% hp is crazy, he continue to take damage and if the healer can't get you back full life you are done for. personally i avoid to use it, i prefer die, it's more a bother than a help. only a white mage can really deal with it efficiently. i feel they need to reduce the goal of 100% hp to 60-75% hp for be more realistic.
because soo far, LD can kill you and that not normal for a cd of last hope.

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What you are saying is you don't know how living dead works

I honestly feel like LD was designed around raid encounters and those who don't raid have a lot of trouble dealing with LD in general. If your coordination isn't on the nail the DRK is pretty screwed if the healer is already dead or wasn't paying attention. Thing is LD has no synergy with the DRK but the DRK's healer. Meanwhile PLD has the bonafide best one with a hefty cooldown and a Warrior can technically just Berserk and self heal at least half to 2/3 of their HP back through self heals during Holmgang.

And the DRK has....DASE?

They cant just make it like the other two and as I said before, if your healer knows what they are doing they should be able to handle Living Dead. Its not that hard to spot.

Generally if your healer is already out of play, then no tank cd is going to stop a wipe. Holmgang will stop a Warrior dying but it won't stop them taking damage and it roots them on the spot so they will be eating any AoEs. PLD does have a self heal but its cost means that its not going to do more than drag out the fight another tankbuster or so.

The big CDs are major emergency switches and PLD should have the best. Mitigation is supposed to be their thing which is why they have less dps than either of the other two tanks. As for SE, I see it as a general mitigation tool. While one doesn't heal a lot, over a fight it heals a lot.

Soul Survivor seems useless to me but Living Dead is still a very powerful CD.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

If you're a WHM with Benediction ready, yes it is better. If not then you're going to struggle, especially nowadays where tanks are going full vit. Before at least they had less hp due to the strength gear they had to get, meaning less hp to recovery. But now? It's insanely high for one thing and they will "start" from 1 hp, meaning that you have to heal 20k hp (more or less) in less than 10 seconds AND while the boss is still attacking, most likely negating one of your heals if the boss can hit for more than 5k damage (and I can even name a few).

And sure, while my AST can heal 5k with benefic 2, I have to do that within 10 seconds which means I have to cast it 4 times in a row: miss one and the tank is dead at 80-90%

Sure it can be fixed with a macro, but why not fix the skill itself? Maybe increase the healing taken by 100% during Walking Dead or lower the hp required to 50% instead, because it's highly unreliable as of now. Holmgang at least doesn't kill you while at 99% of hp!

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the bolded shows you dont know how it works at all. drk doesnt need to be healed to full, they need to be healed for their max hp. case in point, back when it was first brought in, bene actually didnt get rid of it, because they would be healed for max minus the 1 hp they had. any dmg they take does not affect when LD would come off. any regens on them also eases the heals needed to keep them alive.
two things about your ast i am wondering. how are your heals about 6-800 less then mine when just about everyone should be at 210 now? mine is only 211. as ast, you have the second strongest single target heal in the game. ED would most likely take the required heals down to one. even if it was on cd, your other cool downs would help you keep them alive. really the only thing needed in regards to living dead is paying attention.

edit, thinking about it, the only bosses that would even hit that hard, you wouldnt be healing it by yourself.

DRK is just in the middle of pld and warrior. It's not supposed to surpass them or anything. Yes, I'd like to see as many DRKs as warriors but a couple tweaks aren't going to change that unless you make it so the average player can make a DRK do as much or more total damage than a warrior. That's not going to happen, that's warrior's niche! DRK's niche is that it's a combination of warrior and paladin with some quirky things added on...

Quality of Life though... please make Walking Dead more obvious to healers that aren't paying attention please. Give me a option I can turn on in settings that makes my healers have like a siren going off and their screen flash when it happens in duty finder. I trust like everyone else to pay attention (friends, fc, linkshells, party finder, shouting for randoms), but duty finder is grind content and clearly I shouldn't need to use living dead anyway but... *if* I do, well I'm probably already doomed but hey, Quality of life right? Give us that small additional chance for duty finder content not to be salty pls! :P We all know the pains of duty finder. Hallowed Ground and Holmgang in duty finder are actually useful if healer got up to get a drink in the middle of a pull without telling anyone(it's not like they are going to see us ever again so people do stuff like that in duty finder!).

Well honestly one way to make LD better is to have a doom sigil or something hover above your character for the duration. Or even that Sole Survivor Sigil or whatever.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

he continue to take damage and if the healer can't get you back full life you are done for. personally i avoid to use it, i prefer die

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In order to post on a "XXX job balance suggestions" thread, you should have some basic knowledge of the actual job and its skills.