Warrior can put up Storm's Eye, and Ninjas can put up Dancing Edge. These debuffs kinda fight each other. My question is, is Dancing Edge part of their dps rotation or do they just not trust the Warrior to put up Storm's Eye? Sorry for the dumb question.
Slashing Debuff Question
Printable View
-
04-07-2016, 12:09 AMKakerziamSlashing Debuff Question
-
04-07-2016, 12:17 AMTorunya
Both debuffs make the target more vulnerable to slashing attacks, which is an essential part of both the Warrior and Ninja's rotations in terms of damage upkeep. However when you have both in the same party, I assume you could easily trust the Warrior to keep it up and focus on other things as a Ninja. Seeing as for Warrior it's more important since they need to keep Maim up.
-
04-07-2016, 12:35 AMSpookyGhost
Start with DE, if you see SE on the debuff bar from there stop doing DE. I always keep up SE but I constantly see NINs overriding it for no reason.
-
04-07-2016, 12:42 AMJamillion
Ninjas use DE if they can't hit positionals also since its the highest potency attack in those scenarios. However if a warrior is with you and isn't a complete scrub he'll keep SE up at least 95% of the time, it might get low on the timer if he's had to mitigate or fell cleave but it's an essential par of the rotation for us.
-
04-07-2016, 01:37 AMKali-ka
If I see a NIN constantly doing DE on a longer fight then I just start using SP. Most "good" NINs will realize they don't have to DE since I always start each fight with SE combo and have it up pretty quickly, but in dungeons and other easy content it really isn't a big deal if both are overwriting slashing debuff since most things are shortlived in those cases. It is kind of nice though when doing massive pulls and you get down to one or two mobs and you already see that DE icon is on, but if it isn't then its not that big of a deal to just do eye yourself, or just continue to burn it down just as quickly.
Now in raid content, and the few times I have had a NIN (we don't have one in our static sadly) I just communicate that I'll be doing SE and there's no problem. -
04-07-2016, 02:05 AMJamillionI've told pug ninjas that in Seph ex and I think it went right over their heads because DE was up constantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali-ka
-
04-07-2016, 05:02 AMbounddreamer
I've told PUG ninjas that I keep the slashing debuff up and they're usually pretty good about not overwriting after that. But sometimes they forget. Their rotation has a lot more to worry about so usually they're happy if you can take that off the list for them. Just touch bases and let them know you've got the slashing debuts taken care of and don't simply expect them to notice you're keeping it up.
-
04-07-2016, 07:05 PMMiyaka_Vigiles
As what other said
in Static : the war should keep up the buff so the NIN can go full dmg without worrying about refreshing the slash debuff
in Pugs: again the war should be the one to do it but some NIN forget or dont pay attention so they renew it -
04-07-2016, 08:32 PMRongway
Overwriting it once or twice in the dungeon isn't terrible. If they overwrite it every time you put up Storm's Eye, point out that it's a loss of 60 potency every 6 sec combo, which is 10 potency per sec, which is 100 dps or more at Lv60. "You can do 100dps more if you let me do the debuff" usually gets them to stop, in my experience.
-
04-07-2016, 10:49 PMKitfoxI would argue against this slightly. NIN keeping slashing up means they lose about 2% dps or less (small sample but tried this with a friend). A tanking WAR would then be free to keep Path up 100% of the time, gaining 10% raidwide mitigation. Switching Eye for Path is a minimal loss for WAR DPS. As an OT WAR can keep both debuffs up with no problems though, and I would personally consider the 10% mitigation overall more valuable than using Butcher's in OT position, especially in offensive tanking when MT is also in DPS stance and hate/mitigation might be a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyaka_Vigiles
In short, I'd go for:
WAR MT: (WAR) Butcher's Block + Storm's Path (NIN) Dancing Edge = 10% mitigation + 10% slashing increase
WAR OT: (WAR) Storm's Eye + Storm's Path (NIN) Aeolian Edge = 10% mitigation + 10% slashing increase + extra NIN DPS -
04-07-2016, 11:37 PMAshelia_FerronExcept there is 0 need to keep Path up 100% of the time. You throw it up before a big hit maybe but that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
Your suggestions would lower DPS, which could be more costly than having path up. Especially in current content, where with enough DPS you can push phases and avoid extra damage altogether. -
04-08-2016, 12:22 AMMalicewolfEh, kinda depends on the situation. Mitigation has always been overlooked in this game, primarily because we don't have many instances where it's REALLY needed. But it never hurts. More mitigation means healers can also DPS more. For essential hard to meet DPS checks, yea, go for the extra DPS. If you have a PLD as the other tank, he can also put up RoH's debuff and is nice when paired with SP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron
-
04-08-2016, 01:35 AMAshelia_Ferron
Mitigation is overlooked because all raids are scripted. All big damage goes out at set times. So it's very easy to just apply Path when needed, instead of all the time
The tanks that take the auto attack damage all the time are going to receive essentially the same amount of heals at the same rate regardless of 10% mitigation. So it's best to just increase DPS output until such mitigation provides meaningful benefit to the raid -
04-08-2016, 04:41 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHStorm's Path is incredibly worthless outside of raid wide AoE's. Keeping it up 100% of the time would result in no actual benefit, and instead would actually lower group DPS by a significant margin. If you're scared of accidentally stealing hate, just cycle Storm's until the mt has enough of a hate lead to BB, or SP is actually needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malicewolf
-
04-08-2016, 07:19 AMKitfoxHow big is the actual DPS loss for keeping Path up? Saying it's a significant group dps loss sounds like a vast exaggeration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
-
04-08-2016, 09:28 AMSpookyGhost
How to Storm's Path:
- Start by using Eye -> Path -> repeat.
- Next, work in when you can Fracture and get the full duration of it every time it's applied.
- Next determine when you can drop Path for at least 3-4 combo rotations, this can be for an extensive period of time or a very precise one depending on the fight.
100% Path is extremely valuable during progression when no one knows their GCD timings, when healers need to use healing CDs, what the tanks need to use for each tank buster/cleave/etc. It's literally a Disable you can put on the boss whenever you like and that's nothing to scoff at. Once things start getting smoother you can start working in BB to your rotation, but playing safe is 100% better for your group for progression unless you're on an important DPS check. I think ever since Xeno said "Path is only valuable for tank busters/raid damage" that everyone took that as matter of fact rather than a statement mainly applying to once your group is comfortable with the fight.
It's also less of a DPS loss than it used to be, so even if you're worried about DPS loss it really won't factor into it much especially outside of Berserk and stuff. -
04-11-2016, 07:07 AMJim_BerryWAR > NIN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakerziam
I didn't read any comments yet, so I'll apologize if it was already mentioned.
Not using Dancing Edge allows NIN to deal more damage using Aoelian Edge from the rear. However, while I'm no NIN creator, I WILL use Dancing Edge even if a WAR is present in two forms:
- As a NIN, I'd use Dancing Edge in the beginning to give WAR time to build up to it.
- If for whatever reason that I can't get behind the mob for Aeolian Edge, or the sides for Armor Crush, Dancing Edge is the higher potency outside of a positional buff. -
04-14-2016, 06:36 PMMiyaka_VigilesQuote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
Make up your mind, do you care about raid dps or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
------------------------------------------------------
Regarding Storm Path & Rage of Halone, they should be applied before the tank buster or big aoe only. Having them with high up-time is unnecessary. -
04-14-2016, 07:28 PMNoxiferI don't really see any clashes between the two quoted statements. One post says pretty much "it's just 2% (or less)" (and suggests, as I understood it, that NIN doing debuff leaves the WAR able to rotate BB/SP combos instead*); the other merely asks for specifics regarding how much dps is lost. I agree that "significant group dps" seems like an exaggeration, and a pretty fuzzy one at that. Are we talking 5%? 10%? 25%? Different people (depending on how raid-oriented they are) would probably have different opinions regarding what's counted as a "significant" dps loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyaka_Vigiles
*)As MT, it means both debuffs are kept up, as OT, it means higher DPS output, since BB combo has higher potency than SE/SP combo. Personally, I tend to rotate SE/SP combos as OT, but if I have a NIN who keeps putting up their debuff, I'll switch to BB/SE instead. -
04-15-2016, 09:25 AMKitfox2% loss for a single member of an 8-member party (NIN) is extremely minimal. 10 potency loss every 6th GCD is extremely minimal (swapping SE to SP) for gaining 10% mitigation, possibly allowing more DPS from healers or the tank to be in DPS stance (raid DPS gain). What I was interested in was if someone had done the math or testing on the 40 potency loss every 6th GCD (BB to SP) because WAR isn't my main I can't be arsed to do it myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyaka_Vigiles