Will we ever be able to 'legally' sell plots?

I know you can do it back-alley style, but that demand trust from both sides, blah blah, chances of being reported to a GM and ect. Being able to sell or auction the lease of a plot of land would be a nice feature imo.

Probably not.

Very likely not. It would probably be too open for abuse.

Would never be open to abuse if they implemented a proper way to safeguard players and sellers. If they put a tad of effort into it....

Many great suggestions have been made in the past on how to achieve this but se almost never acknowledges any suggestions we have. Sadly op, I would have to say no, its easier for them to ignore the issue then deal with it. Back-alley is the best we are going to get.

They need a way to properly do this as the current way does not even exist and only forces a player to retain their house until they lose complete interest in the game.

Do people really need to sell real estate in this game for exorbitant prices? That just means players would be gaining hundreds of millions of gil if they worked at it. You can't even buy anything with that kind of gil.... I'd say it would be highly suspicious for someone to trade you that kind of money for "rights" to buy your land.

The people selling would get flagged as RMT most likely for trading that kind of money around. Why do they even need that much? >.< Property should just be available for people to just straight up buy from the game itself. No one should be able to "sell" land in my humble opinion but take it with a grain of salt. You can only trade a million at a time and I know some people in party finder are asking people to pay like dozens of millions for rights to their plots. I'd wonder if they are getting in trouble/flagged. But people at the moment seem to be free to do whatever with land so I can't disagree with them.

I hope not. Some poeple in tha game has 9999999999 gil, he can buy all plots then sell them. That's totally unfair. So, I hope not.

How much a person needs is completely irrelevant.

That said, I would like the ability to sell a plot, with one caveat : each FC and each player account can only hold one plot per server. At most, this would give people two plots per account on a server - one for their FC and one for themselves - and put a severe crimp in most people's ability to engage in land speculation.

For those who already own more than 1 private house, give them the current 45 days to relinquish or sell the extras, bringing them down to one, with a penalty of eviction from them all if they do not so reduce their inventory.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

How much a person needs is completely irrelevant.

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I don't disagree. I do miss the days when there was less money floating around and it was harder to obtain. SE never corrected the housing market for inflation so anybody and I mean ANYONE can buy a large house if they try but now it's just a matter of being crafty and catching one that got abandoned. I only hope the new ishgard housing is corrected for the inflation of gil that came out of the expansion. I don't plan to buy one personally but if they don't the tears are gonna be real salty on the forums when all of ishgard housing (including every large house) is bought in about 3 minutes and 30 seconds when they finish maintenance on that patch day (good luck if they finish maint early -_-).

It's not like I can have 2 houses on my character so it doesn't effect me (and I'm not demolishing it to try for a ishgard house). But I'm sure I'm going to have people I know all heartbroken that they can't buy a ishgard house cause they have to work that morning or some such...

Probably not, housing is supposed to be a gil sink.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

I only hope the new ishgard housing is corrected for the inflation of gil that came out of the expansion. I don't plan to buy one personally but if they don't the tears are gonna be real salty on the forums when all of ishgard housing (including every large house) is bought in about 3 minutes and 30 seconds when they finish maintenance on that patch day (good luck if they finish maint early -_-).

It's not like I can have 2 houses on my character so it doesn't effect me (and I'm not demolishing it to try for a ishgard house). But I'm sure I'm going to have people I know all heartbroken that they can't buy a ishgard house cause they have to work that morning or some such...

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Don't forget before Ishgard housing, they are implementing the "move" system, so people won't even have to buy Ishgard houses, they can just relocate there. And you can bet that will happen way faster than most people can purchase the land.

Personally because of the amount of gil involved in housing, you shouldn't be able to turn a profit on it. I personally think people should be limited to one personal plot, and that's it. Maybe with the new apartment system they'll enforce that rule, because if people can just hoard housing then a loooot of apartments are going to get turned into garden plot farms (if they do the indoor gardening idea) or "This space is reserved so that we can plan to think about the possibility of considering turning it into an RP space." And then of course, nothing gets done with it, and it just gets kept from someone who will actually use it.

hope not ._. just look at how much people are ripping off those desperate for houses nows...

Actually... All they need to do is remove the player element from the mix. Players buy housing plots from the game, players sell them back to the game, the game sells the plot to new players. Problems solved. Sure, that would destroy any sort of profit margin, but wasn't the real reason for this so people could give their house up without taking a 100% loss.

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Originally Posted by Kerii

Actually... All they need to do is remove the player element from the mix. Players buy housing plots from the game, players sell them back to the game, the game sells the plot to new players. Problems solved. Sure, that would destroy any sort of profit margin, but wasn't the real reason for this so people could give their house up without taking a 100% loss.

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Indeed, there is no need for legitimized player to player trading of housing plots. What we need is for the relinquishing of a plot to give you back 80% of your gil, same as after the 45 day auto-demolish timer expires.

More than anything though we desperately need a limit of one house per account per server. That would free up a LOT of plots and entirely end the ambitions of land prospectors.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

Don't forget before Ishgard housing, they are implementing the "move" system, so people won't even have to buy Ishgard houses, they can just relocate there. And you can bet that will happen way faster than most people can purchase the land.

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Yeah, can't wait for millions of gil worth of unmovable housing items are simply torn away from me.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Yeah, can't wait for millions of gil worth of unmovable housing items are simply torn away from me.

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From one home owner to the other, You will find a huge amount of people on these forums that do not own houses, that simply do not care about what must be done for them to obtain one.

That involves screwing over current home owners.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Yeah, can't wait for millions of gil worth of unmovable housing items are simply torn away from me.

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Well, we can always hope that the move system is the exception...

I know I'm not going to be happy to get rid of all of my breakable furniture, but as it stands, the Ishgardian houses are going to have to be amazing in every aspect to make me want to leave Lavender Beds. lol

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Yeah, can't wait for millions of gil worth of unmovable housing items are simply torn away from me.

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I would assume that unmovable furniture would be transferred, along with airship progress. It doesn't make any sense for them to go to all the trouble of coding a housing transfer system if it doesn't fix the problems with moving from one house to another.

The part about the transfer system. It was one of the live letters. I watched that live letter. If I recall correctly, he was answering a question about what would need to be done before Ishgard housing would be ready to be released and the dev responded that he thought they should make some sort of transfer system first so that people wouldn't be sad that they already had a house....etc I mean, I think you guys are right that they might do it, but at the moment, unless I'm mistaken, the dev in the live letter (i don't recall which dev) had just said it was something he'd like to do or prefer to do first but... then again I don't speak japanese and someone was translating it for me so maybe I didn't grasp his meaning completely.

One thing I disagree, housing *is* a gil sink and I believe it was always supposed to be. The refund on auto demolished housing was some kind of compromise they came up with, but initially there were supposed to be gil sinks in the game.... If there weren't, where do you all think the gil goes? It just keeps accumulating constantly. I mean, you don't even have to sell on the market board to get money, there are quests, roulettes, monster drops, challenge logs, gil comes from everywhere and it goes *nowhere* for the most part.... That just leads to inflation and that is why stuff is so expensive on the marketboard on many servers at the moment. Gil is going down in value as a currency between players cause many people have millions they are sitting on if not more. Gil sinks are a mechanic to prevent it from getting out of hand but I agree it seems SE is changing their mind on that....so I have no idea what they plan to do about inflation... Gil is only going to further decrease in value until you are paying 500k just for a single raid food....

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Originally Posted by Cherie

One thing I disagree, housing *is* a gil sink and I believe it was always supposed to be. The refund on auto demolished housing was some kind of compromise they came up with, but initially there were supposed to be gil sinks in the game.... If there weren't, where do you all think the gil goes? It just keeps accumulating constantly. I mean, you don't even have to sell on the market board to get money, there are quests, roulettes, monster drops, challenge logs, gil comes from everywhere and it goes *nowhere* for the most part.... That just leads to inflation and that is why stuff is so expensive on the marketboard on many servers at the moment. Gil is going down in value as a currency between players cause many people have millions they are sitting on if not more. Gil sinks are a mechanic to prevent it from getting out of hand but I agree it seems SE is changing their mind on that....so I have no idea what they plan to do about inflation... Gil is only going to further decrease in value until you are paying 500k just for a single raid food....

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We've had increasing amounts of gil sinks added over time. They're all over the place, they're just not as obvious as housing.

Anyway, what we really need is for a change to housing prices. The maximum price needs to go up a lot. The minimum price can stay the same.

e.g.:
Current price: 5,000,000. This drops down to 2,500,000 over the course of 30 days.
New price: 150,000,000. This drops down to 2,500,000 over the course of 60 days.

Good luck selling your house for profit when you were the person willing to pay the most for it already.

Before this, though, we need to be able to sell plots to the system.

Along with this (but not before), a strict and officially stated stance needs to be taken on the selling of plots to other players.

And, of course, it goes without saying, we also need more housing plots.

I don't think there will be direct selling of plots between players. when the housing system was announced it was clear that they did not want to have that happeneing, and initially they were going to have auto-dmolition after 35 days with no refund IIRC. So I don't think that they will go for player to player selling. Quite apart from anything else, if you did that how long would it take for RMTs to turn into property speculators, buying up desireable plots and then selling them for real hard currrency?

Too much scope for abuse.

So long there is no feature that allow you to sell the plot directly (with a fixed price) instead of get paid for just abandoning the plot (the buyer still have not paid for the plot itself), no

Just wait until the apartment houses are finished (was it 3.3?)

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Originally Posted by Cherie

Gil is going down in value as a currency between players cause many people have millions they are sitting on if not more. Gil sinks are a mechanic to prevent it from getting out of hand but I agree it seems SE is changing their mind on that....so I have no idea what they plan to do about inflation... Gil is only going to further decrease in value until you are paying 500k just for a single raid food....

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They need to add ways to siphon gil out of the game. The problem with simply adding a desirable glamor item sold for several hundred thousand gil per piece is of course that it would stimulate RMT demand as well. It needs to be soething more gradual.

One idea that comes to mind is making the mini-games at the saucer accept gil as well as MGP. It would be a muh more gradual way to pull giol out of the game, but it would be attractive to players willing to grind things out. Adding a 3rd retainer we pay for in gil instead of hard cash couldwork as well, have a monthly salary for the retainer that is fairly significant, start them off at level 30 of whatever class the player picks to justify the salary, and escalate teh salary based on their level.

The more things that SE can add that gradually siphon gil from the system, the better. At this point, given that the market for shards is essentially toast, they might even consider allowing the various beast tribes to accept gil for one or more kinds of shard. The more gil they can remove from the market the better. Company dues and fees to participate in the PvP tournaments might also help. A balance has to be strucvk though, because too much of this kind of thing could heavily discourage newer players.

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Originally Posted by RubenSnizzle

I know you can do it back-alley style, but that demand trust from both sides, blah blah, chances of being reported to a GM and ect. Being able to sell or auction the lease of a plot of land would be a nice feature imo.

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;)..................

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

They need to add ways to siphon gil out of the game.

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I'm not so sure that the need is to remove the Gil. My reasoning here is simple : with little to nothing to spend it on, it tends to collect in some people's banks. If it is not moving, it is effectively removed already. The only difference is, it is effectively removed by the player holding onto it rather than the game itself.

Money not in circulation is money doing nothing. It does not boost prices, it does not reduce prices, it does not get goods or services to move.

A better solution would be to get the Gil being held back into circulation.

"Plots?"
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

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Originally Posted by Cherie

The part about the transfer system. It was one of the live letters. I watched that live letter. If I recall correctly, he was answering a question about what would need to be done before Ishgard housing would be ready to be released and the dev responded that he thought they should make some sort of transfer system first so that people wouldn't be sad that they already had a house....etc I mean, I think you guys are right that they might do it, but at the moment, unless I'm mistaken, the dev in the live letter (i don't recall which dev) had just said it was something he'd like to do or prefer to do first but... then again I don't speak japanese and someone was translating it for me so maybe I didn't grasp his meaning completely.

One thing I disagree, housing *is* a gil sink and I believe it was always supposed to be. The refund on auto demolished housing was some kind of compromise they came up with, but initially there were supposed to be gil sinks in the game.... If there weren't, where do you all think the gil goes? It just keeps accumulating constantly. I mean, you don't even have to sell on the market board to get money, there are quests, roulettes, monster drops, challenge logs, gil comes from everywhere and it goes *nowhere* for the most part.... That just leads to inflation and that is why stuff is so expensive on the marketboard on many servers at the moment. Gil is going down in value as a currency between players cause many people have millions they are sitting on if not more. Gil sinks are a mechanic to prevent it from getting out of hand but I agree it seems SE is changing their mind on that....so I have no idea what they plan to do about inflation... Gil is only going to further decrease in value until you are paying 500k just for a single raid food....

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You're missing the part where an 80% refund on your investment would still be a 20% gil sink, which would add up over time through consecutive buyers.

As it is now most people that have houses are holding onto them even if they no longer want them because they're not legitimately allowed to sell them and they won't give them up if they get nothing back. These plots are sitting stagnant so the only gil they've removed from the economy is the initial investment from the owner.

Now, if players were able to sell unwanted plots back to the server for an 80% refund they would be more likely to actually give them up, thus 20% of their investment has been removed PLUS 100% of the investment of whoever buys it next.

If players had more encouragement to give up unused plots there would actually be MORE gil removed from the economy than under the current system simply due to plots being bought more often.

Wild star can do this why can't this game does? Probably because they implement it in such a way for large scale allowing large amount of player in to the zone like a normal zone unlike wild star single zone area

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Originally Posted by Alberel

...if players were able to sell unwanted plots back to the server for an 80% refund they would be more likely to actually give them up, thus 20% of their investment has been removed PLUS 100% of the investment of whoever buys it next.

If players had more encouragement to give up unused plots there would actually be MORE gil removed from the economy than under the current system simply due to plots being bought more often.

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The problem is if players were able to sell unwanted plots back to the server for an 80% refund, anyone will buy a plot regardless of anything. ^^;
No refund is 100% gil sink, why need to reduce it to 20% if gil sink is a concern?

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Originally Posted by Alberel

You're missing the part where an 80% refund on your investment would still be a 20% gil sink, which would add up over time through consecutive buyers.

As it is now most people that have houses are holding onto them even if they no longer want them because they're not legitimately allowed to sell them and they won't give them up if they get nothing back. These plots are sitting stagnant so the only gil they've removed from the economy is the initial investment from the owner.

Now, if players were able to sell unwanted plots back to the server for an 80% refund they would be more likely to actually give them up, thus 20% of their investment has been removed PLUS 100% of the investment of whoever buys it next.

If players had more encouragement to give up unused plots there would actually be MORE gil removed from the economy than under the current system simply due to plots being bought more often.

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Why when they can sell it to another player for 20-30x more?

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

The problem is if players were able to sell unwanted plots back to the server for an 80% refund, anyone will buy a plot regardless of anything. ^^;
No refund is 100% gil sink, why need to reduce it to 20% if gil sink is a concern?

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The refund encourages people to sell. For example, if you find a house you like better, or you want to move servers. Currently, people may feel stuck in their server because they don't want to lose the investment on their house. Or they may not move to another house because they already paid a lot for their house. People will also be more willing to pay for higher prices instead of waiting for the price to drop because of the refund. This can result in overall larger gil sink than the 100%.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Why when they can sell it to another player for 20-30x more?

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Maybe because they want to avoid actions taken against their account.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

The refund encourages people to sell. For example, if you find a house you like better, or you want to move servers. Currently, people may feel stuck in their server because they don't want to lose the investment on their house. Or they may not move to another house because they already paid a lot for their house. People will also be more willing to pay for higher prices instead of waiting for the price to drop because of the refund. This can result in overall larger gil sink than the 100%.



Maybe because they want to avoid actions taken against their account.

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So, if you give them the house they can ban you?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Lol, you obviously don't know how this works girly.

Its called "Hey, make me a donation and I will donate to you this house."

If they want to "argue" about it; I will just say it was a gift and they can't do anything about it. Unless giving gifts to other players is now a punishable offense, if so /reported.

If they start banning people for giving other people things; then they are going to get a lot of negative feedback; and they are not that stupid.

I can also just "list" an item that is worthless for a ton of money listing the digits and have them buy it from me; then just /donate/ them the house after.

Unless buying things from the auction house is also a bannable offense, if so; I think you will be banned too. ;)

There are tons of ways to do this; just use your head. It should of never been made an offense in the first place.

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How would you call it a gift if they giving you money in exchange for giving up the house? GMs can check game logs. There are ways around this but just seems like going out of your way to do it.

Selling plot to other player is illegal? Lol I have the Gil I buy it and resale it is consider illegal now?

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Selling plot to other player is illegal? Lol I have the Gil I buy it and resale it is consider illegal now?

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It listed that way cause you not actually selling the plot you just selling information that you will give up a plot. They will have to buy the plot from the system after you give it up.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

How would you call it a gift if they giving you money in exchange for giving up the house? GMs can check game logs. There are ways around this but just seems like going out of your way to do it.

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So.. they checked that they bought something from my broker.. and I didn't trade them any money. So they can 'ban' you because someone else bought something from your auction? So.. I can ask a GM to ban you if I find your guy and buy something from them now?

COOL!

Seems logical to me.

By the way; this happens all the time in politics. Its called self-loaning and gifting and donations!

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

So.. they checked that they bought something from my broker.. and I didn't trade them any money. So they can 'ban' you because someone else bought something from your auction? So.. I can ask a GM to ban you if I find your guy and buy something from them now?

COOL!

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Guess you miss the point of a GM being able to check the logs, if you tell them hey go to MB and buy this item from my retainer named... and then I'll "donate" my plot to you think they could put the pieces together of what really was going on. Unless you doing it through PF no one will ever know anyways cause GMs don't actively seek out people selling houses unless someone reports it being done.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Guess you miss the point of a GM being able to check the logs, if you tell them hey go to MB and buy this item from my retainer named... and then I'll "donate" my plot to you think they could put the pieces together of what really was going on. Unless you doing it through PF no one will ever know anyways cause GMs don't actively seek out people selling houses unless someone reports it being done.

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I don't see how that is valid. He never sold the house for any profit. He listed an item and someone bought it; then he got lucky and saw an empty plot and bought that too. Sure; it can be a coincidence and its a big one at that; but can a GM ban someone for those things?

You can do all that without sending the person a single tell in game; well, unless its some kind of info.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I don't see how that is valid. He never sold the house for any profit. He listed an item and someone bought it; then he got lucky and saw an empty plot and bought that too. Sure; it can be a coincidence and its a big one at that; but can a GM ban someone for those things?

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SE can pretty much do what ever they want it their game, for example they could shut down the game tomorrow if they wanted it even in the ToS.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I don't see how that is valid. He never sold the house for any profit. He listed an item and someone bought it; then he got lucky and saw an empty plot and bought that too. Sure; it can be a coincidence and its a big one at that; but can a GM ban someone for those things?

You can do all that without sending the person a single tell in game; well, unless its some kind of info.

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They can ban you for any or no reason.