Rest in peace War dps

T-T warrior doesn't feel as strong anymore...

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Originally Posted by Kyonosuke

T-T warrior doesn't feel as strong anymore...

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Yep, its good night sweet prince. Eqiliu doesn't heal for much anymore, our BB crits don't crit for 2k+ anymore. Yah, so sad. :-/

I do not like the tank changes pesonally. Back to smn i go.

It sucks to feel weaker, but all tanks' DPS got weaker, so we're in the same position relatively speaking, anyway. Gonna enjoy WAR same as yesterday and get some kicks from having a massive HP pool and without feeling like a scrub about it.

The loss in damage means that Warrior's cooldowns are sorta effected no? Our big hp pool won't matter as much when we can't do squat about it and the healer is the one who needs to remember to keep up my hp...

A Regen between pulls will top you off. Remember to click it off before you pull, I don't want to be attacked.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

The loss in damage means that Warrior's cooldowns are sorta effected no? Our big hp pool won't matter as much when we can't do squat about it and the healer is the one who needs to remember to keep up my hp...

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Yeah, I haven't been on yet to test.

This would indirectly affect bloodbath and equilibrium most directly, and will affect second wind as well. This also makes some of the pulls that could be done in deliverance with a combination of berserk, internal release, vengeance, and bloodbath might be a little less viable dependent on if your DPS are hitting single targets or doing true aoe DPS. Before the patch it didn't matter as hate generated was enough to stave off either and the healing that came through was rather large.

Again, we'll have to see how much the hate threshold changed and if the added HP will be enough to stave off the same amount of damage until a switch back to tank stance.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

This would indirectly affect bloodbath and equilibrium most directly, and will affect second wind as well. This also makes some of the pulls that could be done in deliverance with a combination of berserk, internal release, vengeance, and bloodbath might be a little less viable dependent on if your DPS are hitting single targets or doing true aoe DPS. Before the patch it didn't matter as hate generated was enough to stave off either and the healing that came through was rather large.

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It's almost like you weren't supposed to be tanking in a dps stance. Le Gasp!

Delicious tears of fair weather tanks. Mmmm, yumm, those are so good. And people still trying to justify full right side STR? I don't have enough popcorn for 3.2.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

The loss in damage means that Warrior's cooldowns are sorta effected no? Our big hp pool won't matter as much when we can't do squat about it and the healer is the one who needs to remember to keep up my hp...

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You mean, kinda like the way it was supposed to be (and already was for the other two tanks)?

I'm not to pleased about the Tank nerf either, but the pure self-sustainability of War's is not my primary complaint. We have a healer (or two) for a reason. I don't think anyone at SE intended for Tanks to be so self-sufficient that they could ignore basic party mechanics. This kind of nerf was inevitable, even it it does suck.

Warrior's pretty much sailed as a viable tank job. The now barely existing self heals were the main draw of playing the job, at least for me, and dork's become even more of a glass cannon, but at least pld is still a somewhat viable tank. So long Inner Beast, your self healing was adored while it lasted.

Seems like my i208 warrior with the 210 relic went from 1300-1330 dps in full str (3.15) to 1060ish dps now with four crafted accessories and one 210 ring.

I can't be the only Warrior on the forum who played for a few hours this morning and still feels like we're in a good place.

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Originally Posted by Kyonosuke

T-T warrior doesn't feel as strong anymore...

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WAR is still crazy strong, and still the most desired tank. If anything it only suffered a pinch more because it is so self-heal reliant, but the rest of the job is so well-designed outside of that that it barely matters

We all felt the hit. If anything, feel bad for PLD, whose buffs, while easily distinguished in relation to the other tanks, are barely noticed by themselves after the DPS cut.

I for one am going to miss my rapid fire 2.5K-3K-1K-2K <DA>Syphon Strike<C&S+DP>Delirium bursts.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

I can't be the only Warrior on the forum who played for a few hours this morning and still feels like we're in a good place.

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Maybe as an off tank. Even with the same cool down cycling I've been doing since 2.1 I felt infinitely more fragile without having any reliable heals coming in. Inner Beast is a joke of a heal now and Equilibrium feels too weak to make a difference of more than half a gcd.

I think the thread title should have been "RIP WAR heals" instead lol. I'm surprised they didn't edit the percentage of self-heal for Warrior in anticipation of having more HP+getting presumably hit harder in future content.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Maybe as an off tank. Even with the same cool down cycling I've been doing since 2.1 I felt infinitely more fragile without having any reliable heals coming in. Inner Beast is a joke of a heal now and Equilibrium feels too weak to make a difference of more than half a gcd.

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Made me sad my Equilib healed for 4.8k instead of 6.7k.

More HP but diminished healing across Tank classes is gonna suck. Soul Eater healed me for 1200 at i185. Kinda scared to see how pitiful it is now.

Almost like you are supposed to tank, worry about hate, and such rather than try to top dps charts. Weird. I'm pretty mad my blm heals aren't keeping raids alive BTW so I'm on your side

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Originally Posted by Genoreaper

Almost like you are supposed to tank, worry about hate, and such rather than try to top dps charts. Weird. I'm pretty mad my blm heals aren't keeping raids alive BTW so I'm on your side

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that would be such a great example to wave at people if most dps could even play their class at anywhere near three quarters of maximum efficiency

dps always whine about this and that but man i couldn't imagine a FFXIV where in every level of content in the game doing your job acceptably was as pertinent as the healer or tanks doing theirs.

i bet there are still dps who do less damage than the tanks in dungeons and have comparable item level which is completely unacceptable

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I think the thread title should have been "RIP WAR heals" instead lol. I'm surprised they didn't edit the percentage of self-heal for Warrior in anticipation of having more HP+getting presumably hit harder in future content.

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One thing to consider is that Str Tanks (especially Warriors) were healing and therefore mitigating more damage than intended for their ilevel. The damage calculation change pretty much brought them back into line with the other two tanks.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

that would be such a great example to wave at people if most dps could even play their class at anywhere near three quarters of maximum efficiency

dps always whine about this and that but man i couldn't imagine a FFXIV where in every level of content in the game doing your job acceptably was as pertinent as the healer or tanks doing theirs.

i bet there are still dps who do less damage than the tanks in dungeons and have comparable item level which is completely unacceptable

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Those dps need to get better not rely on tanks. I like the trinity, but it's moot if tanks are independent. It also made a lot of tanks bad trying to be dps. I do wish they made stances specs, so que, gear, play and enjoy as dps, ect. But dps just needs to get better in general, and you can't say it isn't relevant because dps check wipes are real

Meh it had to happen in a way. You could point out plenty of bad warriors vs others. People never used any of theach tank heals or mitigation which is why healers hated WAR the most. Though I kind of wish they remained the same and kept the dps the tank forum would of still went crazy. People are still trying to get WAR nerf because how strong we are as off tanks. I'm a WAR for life and I love being a tank regardless of the changes. But this sounds mean kind of hard to enjoy a game when people are always complaining about nothing. Some things needed to be fixed on certain classes but the whole balancing out jobs to accommodate bad plays or make all jobs viable equally is getting old. I could understand if you had to make new toons or accounts to enjoy the game but you don't....just stubborn players crying to get their way.

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Originally Posted by Genoreaper

Almost like you are supposed to tank,mworry about hate, and such rather than try to top dps charts. Weird. I'm pretty mad my blm heals aren't keeping raids alive BTW so I'm on your side

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You're also forgetting the pre 3.2 STR tank was the best tank and the simple fact that as a result, dps players would pull half-arse auto-duty to get carried, especially if their favourite netflix show had just come out. STR tanks were all or nothing on speed runs and now we're just gonna put our shiny tank boots straight up the arses of dps that can't cut it without a goodbye so all the main dps in the game better get good real damn fast or they're out.
TL:DR
This is not a change to help piss poor auto dps players but it will make tanks and healers more likely to boot the piss poor dps players, which is awesome as I career tank. I should not be doing your bloody job and since the patch, there's less ability for me to do your job so get good or get out.

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Originally Posted by Genoreaper

Those dps need to get better

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i've played world of warcraft for 8 years

they will not get better, they never get better. and if they do, they are rarely in queue with you.

a few weeks ago I was in sohm al with a bard doing ridiculous damage. i was not parsing him at first but everything was taking forever to die and i had to know where the damage was in the group... when i loaded it up his damage was absolutely pathetic. I was doing about 500 dps on my ninja on most pulls but this guy was doing like 130 dps.

like fr dude? i was doing 230 dps on titan hard when that was relevant as a warrior in my ilv 90 gear with Allagan Battleaxe

i told him his damage was low and he should improve on it and all he did was cry about it and asked if i was parsing him. like i told him to unplug his internet and quit the game or something.

so im just like lol when a dps complains about a tank doing dps because rarely if ever are they actually performing the duty they signed up for

Everyone loves large hits, I'd be sad as a blm if they went away, but in the same respect that's my job. Tanks are still tanks, they didn't nerd your main purpose. You still have that. More damage was nice but was hell on heals and encouraged lazy dps. By making tanks into tanks that hit slightly less hard, and boost their hp, the group can play as a group now.

I guess I was asking too for much for a 5% nerf huh

Competent str tanks did great runs, bad ones made exponentially worse runs the ones who don't know how big a pull they could handle then blame the healers. If you play as a good tank you probably never saw the multitude of bad ones out there. Unrelated how the hell do I get bsck to mobile view lmfao

I played wow for years as well, found horrors in all 3 of the roles. Bad players are going to be bad, would you be happy if healers or dps got huge general buff in dps to compensate or are you just mad that you aren\\\\'t as the tank? How about all dps classes get double damage just in case? Why should 1 tank job be the lone crutch?

You touched on another key problem. Parses. Everyone on console can\\\\'t even parse themselves, it would be great if it was self viewed or toggled to share. I have to ask someone to parse me when I want it done. So someone plays and things die, they have no idea how far behind they are. Unfortunately those who can exclusively parse have a tendency to go elitist and get mad when they aren\\\\'t topping regardless of their actual role. In the end tanks are made to be tanks, not armored dps with constant mitigation

Won't let me edit. But another thought, what if dragoons,monks, or ninja could take, keep and mitigate hate and damage better than you while still doing more dps , then they lost it during a patch and start raging over being squishier, would you feel bad? Or would you tell them to focus on doing damage while you tanked. If you want to tank, play tank, want to dps play dps. You were the only job who could choose between two options, blm can't go full mnd gear for any reason, heals can't rock full int and out dps plus heal.

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Originally Posted by Genoreaper

heals can't rock full int and out dps plus heal.

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...I actually feel bad for you, poor thing. Healers out DPS the actual DPS on a regular basis. ESPECIALLY on big pulls. Even black mages get out DPS 'ed. And they don't need a scrap of int jewels to do it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's almost like you weren't supposed to be tanking in a dps stance. Le Gasp!

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sigh...

You mean people played to the meta that the game created?!?! GASP!

This drivel is ridiculous. Why can't people understand that SE has just changed a portion of a job that many played for various reasons and that a percentage of that group will be upset at the difference. It's inevitable and not really unwarranted. Things change in MMO's and people adapt, but when you change how a job base functions for a group then there is bound to be backlash, even if you do or do not agree with the change.

The fact of the matter is that indeed I'm not at all happy with the change. However, I will change and adapt to the situation. The meta has changed, and now more than ever good DPS are gonna be even more important to a raid group than ever before. DPS who are willing to push the boundaries of play will be needed, before that was needed of tanks. So, those of us that play jobs that push the boundaries of what can and can't be done, and thus not constrained to a label of role, will be pushing into other jobs for everyone's benefit. Maybe instead of being antagonistic all the time about how the meta made everyone who was in tank stance sporting vit gear before the patch in four mans correct. You could be offering alternatives to the styles of play that pushed STR tanks into being such a trend.

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Originally Posted by Genoreaper

I played wow for years as well, found horrors in all 3 of the roles. Bad players are going to be bad, would you be happy if healers or dps got huge general buff in dps to compensate or are you just mad that you aren\\\\'t as the tank? How about all dps classes get double damage just in case? Why should 1 tank job be the lone crutch?

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we get thrown into these situations because it's not supposed to tickle when you hit someone with an axe the size of a damn car door. shields weren't just used to deflect blows or arrows.

and dps are the absolute worst because really, there is so much that you, as DPS players do to change how a group succeeds. The better you do your job, the easier everyone's job is. This applies to healers and tanks as well, but not not nearly as much.

If our party was a car, the tanks would be the body and the steering wheel. The healers are the wheels and suspension the vehicle sits on. Your best DPS are the driver, the mirrors, turbocharged engine, the bad ass mufflers, the heated leather seats, the awesome stereo and convertible top.

But together, the rest of them make the million mile long highways this beast roars down the road on.

Do you want to be a smooth, freshly painted highway? Or do you want to be a highway loaded up with potholes that'll bust tires, wreck cars, possibly get people killed - not to mention lined up with tons of toll booths as a tax on visitors passing through?

We all have a responsibility. But as a DPS, you are more responsible for performance than any other role in the game. Yet, it is a role mainly dominated by slackers.

Your statement tells me that you are new to modern mmos. in mmos ALL jobs should try to put out as much dps as they can yes.that means you healers as well.

It feels even worse in PVP. I'm thinking they didn't consider the PVP ramifications when they pushed this change for PVE purposes... my fell cleave does nothing in pvp now... NOTHING! I know I'm a casual, but getting some big numbers with fell cleave was the highlight of pvp for me... I just don't feel effective... Are they gonna do something about this? especially for pvp?

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Are they gonna do something about this? especially for pvp?

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I highly doubt it.

In an angry mob-fest like Seize, this kind of nerf is extra painful, but, at the moment, SE is not considering Seize as their standard for PvP. The upcoming Feast is geared to be a team focused game mode, in which actually working as a team will be the deciding factor for victory. That means having a balanced team composition with players who know how to work with one another in a tactical fashion. This is doubly the case for ranked league fights, in which PvP elites will be queuing up against one another. The Tank dmg nerf only plays into this style of game mode, because it restricts the possibility of one player solo'ing an entire team. With a universal dmg nerf, Pld's and Drk's have an even utility chance against Wars when queuing for Feast (with Pld's making up for their bullsh*t dmg with team utility such as DV, Testudo, etc). If the Dmg was not nerfed, then the tank slot would only ever be filled with Wars, since they had such an overwhelming advantage.

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Originally Posted by Februs

With a universal dmg nerf, Pld's and Drk's have an even utility chance against Wars when queuing for Feast (with Pld's making up for their bullsh*t dmg with team utility such as DV, Testudo, etc). If the Dmg was not nerfed, then the tank slot would only ever be filled with Wars, since they had such an overwhelming advantage.

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I'd argue warrior's top competitive PvP utility was burst damage itself. Aside from thrill of war, warrior doesn't bring much utility to the table; not much a dark knight or pld couldn't already do, or do better.
You could say holmgang is useful, but holmgang is easily purified(purify is 90s traited while holmgang is 180s) or negated by a bard's wardens/drg jumped, leaving the warrior in root only to tomahawk. Holmgang also wasn't even designed to be that type of cooldown, it's a defensive cooldown like hallowed or living dead preventing them from dying.
Mythril tempest is crowd control that can definitely be useful for getting people off healers or interrupting lbs, but lacks in comparison to a traited tarpit and carnal chill or glory slashes/shield bashes

If there was no class restrictions/requirement that there be a tank, I don't know if most teams would even take a tank along for Feast. The tank pvp abilities are nice, but their cooldowns are way too long. With the damage nerf, I just don't feel useful as a warrior in a pvp situation. I don't feel effective - like I'm even contributing anything meaningful. What's worse is that tanks are easily cced with only purify as a counter. Most of the time we're stuck chasing after things. I wish the warrior and pally could have a gap closer or slow like the dark knight. It would make playing them a lot more fun. At least I could catch up to things and stun them.

There's many times where I get hit by bind, purify it, only to be slept for like 10 secs and there's nothing I can do. Want to chase down someone? The only option is sprint and hopefully stun or holmgang.

I mean these problems existed before, but the damage output made these shortcomings bearable - at least to a filthy casual like me it did. Now, I just don't even know why I'm even trying. Hit thrill of war to help protect my party from burst, or limit break... then contribute absolutely nothing until those long cooldown abilities are ready again... = (

Can we get additional pvp utility? reduction on the cooldown of our tank-class specific pvp abilities or more mobility? It's just not fun playing as a tank as it is... am I the only one who feels this way?

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

It feels even worse in PVP. I'm thinking they didn't consider the PVP ramifications when they pushed this change for PVE purposes... my fell cleave does nothing in pvp now... NOTHING! I know I'm a casual, but getting some big numbers with fell cleave was the highlight of pvp for me... I just don't feel effective... Are they gonna do something about this? especially for pvp?

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I think lowering tank PvP damage was completely intended since "[2.0][3.0] Damage bonuses for tanks have been reduced in PvP encounters." was in the patch notes.