With the Nerf to AST, AA's should no longer interrupt casting

With not only the recent nerfs to AST nocturnal sect aspected benefic shields, but also the buff to TP-user sprint and nerf to caster-sprint, attacks should no longer auto-interrupt spell casts.

Why? Well, it's just way too damn easy to stick on your target now. The "OPness" of AST only highlights a much bigger issue with PVP. Damage is too high compared to defense/healing. You may say "Oh well the feast will be different". I don't believe it will be. In fact, it will be worse, is my assumption.

I'll be a bit more blunt. Healing in PvP SUCKS in it's current form. It seems ridiculous that I, as a healer, should get HARD LOCKED on casting because I'm being attacked. Should I get stunned? Silenced? Knockedback? Sure! Because those counters to casting/healing require active decision making. Passive auto attacking and combo spamming does not.

My proposed change is to have attacked do a "push back" to spell casting instead. So the cast time increases by a small amount each time you are attacked, as opposed to being interrupted. This would give healers more room to breath without the absolutely necessary help of your team, while not alienating the importance and value of proper mitigation, CC, and coordination.

The fact that this is only cited as needing investigating now that the AST nerf has been confirmed makes me a little sad for the other healers (lol) but yeah, I would like them to look at the automatic interruption too. Maybe they have already and it's just not in the preliminary patch notes, but I'd prefer pushback to getting slaughtered for making a single mistake.

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Originally Posted by Renault

Damage is too high compared to defense/healing.

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This is just nonsense and not true, if a healer is allowed to cast uninterrupted you can't match the raw output of it with any dps class damage.

As for removing the whole 1 hit 100% interrupt thing i'd be all for it, but a significant reduction in healing and damage output for caster classes (both healers and dps) would be absolutely necessary. If it was done right though, it would even possibly rebalance the game enough to allow for the removal of at least some of the role restrictions for the arena we have now (The 1 ranged 1 melee 1 healer 1 tank restriction). I don't expect this any time soon if ever.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

This is just nonsense and not true, if a healer is allowed to cast uninterrupted you can't match the raw output of it with any dps class damage.

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Maybe that's why this is a team ordeal and you aren't meant to out-damage a healer's heals all on your own. But I don't think many people understand that. And I suppose that's why AST is where it is now come 3.2.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

you aren't meant to out-damage a healer's heals all on your own..

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Where did i say you were? I was just saying that Damage being too high compared to defense/healing was just not true, i didn't add anything to that.

The AST change was necessary as it wasn't balanced (no it wasn't insanely op, but it needed adjustment) won't go over this because there's load of threads on this already, for pvp to be good changes will and have to be made, so learn to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Where did i say you were? I was just saying that Damage being too high compared to defense/healing was just not true, i didn't add anything to that.

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Well to me it just looked like you were wording it in such a way where the current heal/dmg relationship was a problem, but I see your train of thought now. Nevermind.

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The AST change was necessary as it wasn't balanced (no it wasn't insanely op, but it needed adjustment) won't go over this because there's load of threads on this already, for pvp to be good changes will and have to be made, so learn to deal with it.

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I hardly think a 50% shield PvP-wide nerf was necessary though, Come Tuesday we'll see how useless/bearable Noct Asp. Benefic ends up being, but if you ask me, this should've been a change exclusively for 4 v 4 matches since I don't think the spell will be viable in many typical situations in 8 v 8 or Frontlines any longer.

"learn to deal with it" is a bit much though, considering...

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Originally Posted by Cidel

"learn to deal with it" is a bit much though, considering...

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I wasn't trying to offend or anything, it's legit advice, if the devs really want to get into balancing classes more often and more seriously, expect every now and then to have adjustments you might not like

Oh look, the Astros who might need to hardcast heals to keep their party alive now instead of lol spamming insta shields are asking for interrupt nerfs.

I wouldn't mind if casters (I mean all jobs that have cast bars) can build a temporary immunity to being interrupted after being hit a set # of times. To prevent it from being too OP, maybe make it last a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I wouldn't mind if casters (I mean all jobs that have cast bars) can build a temporary immunity to being interrupted after being hit a set # of times. To prevent it from being too OP, maybe make it last a few seconds.

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It's called Surecast.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

It's called Surecast.

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Your Surecast must work differently to mine because a ladybird farting in Limsa can interrupt my casting under Surecast.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

It's called Surecast.

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Which does stop interruption from damage, but not stun/silence/sleep (but surecast still wears at start of cast anyway if interrupted).

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Originally Posted by Koltik

It's called Surecast.

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Sure cast is 1 cast every 30 seconds, which can be cancelled by stuns or silences. It's not really enough.

LOLNO. AST just got nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

LOLNO. AST just got nerfed.

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This is asking for a change to the ways casting gets interrupted for both casters and healers, not just AST.

https://gyazo.com/bc73e7cdc24a4bbfc22901c39d3363e1 Guess who this is?! (Hint: It's OP)

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Originally Posted by JzBen

https://gyazo.com/bc73e7cdc24a4bbfc22901c39d3363e1 Guess who this is?! (Hint: It's OP)

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Oh no! You mean people who actually use the class have a few suggestions as to how to improve it/the experience as a whole?

Say it ain't so!

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Oh no! You mean people who actually use the class have a few suggestions as to how to improve it/the experience as a whole?

Say it ain't so!

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They have a few suggestions one day after a nerf to AST which means they will need to cast interruptable heals more often. Wow such coincidence. Can I also get a buff to Fell Cleave potency because we are getting tank damage nerf pls SE?

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Originally Posted by JzBen

Oh look, the Astros who might need to hardcast heals to keep their party alive now instead of lol spamming insta shields are asking for interrupt nerfs.

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If I encountered Astros who were "lol spamming" insta shields thinking its a viable way to keep their party alive against any half-way competent party, then people would've been more busy complaining about being partied with them instead of having to fight them.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

If I encountered Astros who were "lol spamming" insta shields thinking its a viable way to keep their party alive against any half-way competent party, then people would've been more busy complaining about being partied with them instead of having to fight them.

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Have you ever done Wolves Den? https://gyazo.com/daf0e98d5e1a155759ad538d0937836d I think the Warrior in your groups name sums up the feelings he mustve been having. So please lecture me more on how to heal in PvP.

I can agree that AA interrupting casts is annoying, but the fact is they've learnt to deal with it (they being SCH&WHM) in 4v4 since its inception. Astro will still probably be largely reliant on aspected benefic, but will need to utilise the actual shield and things like surecast more often for hardcasting heals. If you don't think they lol spam shields, why do so many run nocturnal and not diurnal in 4v4?

I don't mind the nerf, it's still an 80% shield rather than 130%.

AST still has Lightspeed (15s no cast time with Cele Opp), they can Arrow themselves to get quicker casts and a number of ways to get away to get a cast off.

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Originally Posted by JzBen

I think...

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Lol, seriously? Pulling up random matches trying to cherry-pick arguments of healing when you have no idea how the matches play out/behavior of my party members? So please, make more assumptions about playstyle based on a match you know nothing about.

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...but the fact is they've learnt to deal with it (they being SCH&WHM)

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Lets get one thing straight here, I don't particularly care about having to hardcast; I'll do it on AST when I have the ability to do so/it's practical, I can play WHM if I so choose to/in the mood, but the survivability of AST is much more dependable.

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If you don't think they lol spam shields, why do so many run nocturnal and not diurnal in 4v4?

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See above reason, for one. But if that's all the ASTs you are referring to are capable of, and its working, then that speaks volumes about the other team.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Lol, seriously?

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Nope, but in 4v4 arena they have so much freedom compare to the other classes because of an instant stronger shield than adlo (300 vs 340 ish potency) with a bigger initial heal than a whm regen tick would give(150 vs 263 potency); all for less mana than an adlo and only slightly more than a regen (sorry if my maths is wrong). Ofc people will abuse it. You even say yourself the survivability of an Astro is more dependable, try making these astros go diurnal for 1 game and see how survivable they are. I solely speak of 4v4 here, because Seal Rock is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by JzBen

Nope, but in 4v4 arena they have so much freedom compare to the other classes because of an instant stronger shield than adlo (300 vs 340 ish potency) with a bigger initial heal than a whm regen tick would give(150 vs 263 potency); all for less mana than an adlo and only slightly more than a regen (sorry if my maths is wrong). Ofc people will abuse it. You even say yourself the survivability of an Astro is more dependable, try making these astros go diurnal for 1 game and see how survivable they are. I solely speak of 4v4 here, because Seal Rock is irrelevant.

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And you know what? I'm sure it is tougher to handle with only 2 DPS on it than in 8v8, which is why the nerf makes sense from a 4v4 standpoint, but cripples it everywhere else. I do look forward to seeing how this affects the viability of that spell in anything that's not 4v4, won't be pretty.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

And you know what? I'm sure it is tougher to handle with only 2 DPS on it than in 8v8, which is why the nerf makes sense from a 4v4 standpoint, but cripples it everywhere else. I do look forward to seeing how this affects the viability of that spell in anything that's not 4v4, won't be pretty.

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It's healing is pretty comparable outside of just 4v4. Assuming Nocturnal stance (5% potency buff), it gets a stronger medica than WHM, stronger succor than SCH, super adlo 340 shield + 260 insta heal (in one insta spell), stronger single target healing in benefic 1&2 than physick or cure & cure2. But yeah its healing viability is trash tier!

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Originally Posted by JzBen

It's healing is pretty comparable outside of just 4v4. Assuming Nocturnal stance (5% potency buff), it gets a stronger medica than WHM, stronger succor than SCH, super adlo 340 shield + 260 insta heal (in one insta spell), stronger single target healing in benefic 1&2 than physick or cure & cure2. But yeah its healing viability is trash tier!

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Stop puting words in my mouth.

Are we stil talking about noct asp. benefic? Because if you're going to start looking at the entire healing sets as a whole, AST is at a bigger disadvantage in the OGCD department even if its potencies are slightly better elsewhere. If you keep cherry-picking the parts of AST that sound better on paper, of course its going to sound stronger than it actually is.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Stop puting words in my mouth.

Are we stil talking about noct asp. benefic? Because if you're going to start looking at the entire healing sets as a whole, AST is at a bigger disadvantage in the OGCD department even if its potencies are slightly better elsewhere. If you keep cherry-picking the parts of AST that sound better on paper, of course its going to sound stronger than it actually is.

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You mention its viability in other modes because of a nerf to asp benefic. I point out there other heals are stronger already to make up for slightly less oGCD heals and aspected benefic is still going to be a powerful economic insta heal; it'll just mean more hardcasted spells for catchup healing. I dont get what part im cherry picking. In pure healing potential with hardcasted spells Astro is still in a good spot for other content. But its ok I realise your an ast main, keep arguing blindly.

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Originally Posted by JzBen

I point out there other heals are stronger already to make up for slightly less oGCD heals and aspected benefic is still going to be a powerful economic insta heal; it'll just mean more hardcasted spells for catchup healing. I dont get what part im cherry picking.

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Except its not that powerful. Aspected Benefic is a bandaid heal at best when your target has two or more dps on them. Since its on GCD it is never the go-to heal when you have the option between that or a hardcast like some people seem to think. And slightly more potent heals really doesn't entirely make up for their lack of OGCD abilities when heals need to be thrown around faster than the GCD allows, especially in common situations where you don't have the luxury to sit in one spot and turret for a few.By cherry picking I'm talking about you splitting hairs on their potencies of their GCD heals, which I'm entirely not sure why is even being brought up given how the other 2 healer excel at different types of healing and arguably have more options.

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In pure healing potential with hardcasted spells Astro is still in a good spot for other content. But its ok I realise your an ast main, keep arguing blindly.

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Stop trying to strawman, just, stop. Your ad-hominems/ergo decedos are getting old and childish too.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Except its not that powerful. Aspected Benefic is a bandaid heal at best when your target has two or more dps on them.

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lol at the first part, it literally the most OP heal in the game at the moment. For the second then go to your hardcast abilities just like WHM has to? It only has tetra as a reliable/sizeable oGCD heal and survives whilst you can give yourself instashield allowing for a hardcast heal without fear of interruption, your argument is pretty weak.

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Originally Posted by JzBen

lol at the first part, it literally the most OP heal in the game at the moment. For the second then go to your hardcast abilities just like WHM has to? It only has tetra as a reliable/sizeable oGCD heal and survives whilst you can give yourself instashield allowing for a hardcast heal without fear of interruption, your argument is pretty weak.

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The only thing "OP" about it is the shield- that can be broken rather quickly if you have more than one DPS on it (but since you're more worried about 4v4, why bother explaining this?). WHM has more options and tools outside of hardcasted heals to mitigate/prevent getting damaged, If you think only Tetra is relevant then I don't think we have the same standard of healer toolsets being used to keep someone alive. Simply saying "the heal/shield is OP" without acknowledging the drawbacks elsewhere really seems like it makes your argument weak, actually.

In either case, I identify the problem being your 4-man mentality and mine being in larger scenarios so we can't meet halfway.

I always felt that the interrupting was one of the better mechanics of the game. It made pressure so important, whereas bad players only focused on kills. However, this was before PvP is about to become sprint city. I thought it was fine the way it's always been. I played all melee's in League of Legends and practically any fantasy PvP game..and one thing I never understood was ranged players being upset that they're being punished cause a melee is on top of them. PLD and WAR don't even have gap closers. You should 100% be punished by someone applying pressure to you.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

I always felt that the interrupting was one of the better mechanics of the game. It made pressure so important, whereas bad players only focused on kills. However, this was before PvP is about to become sprint city. I thought it was fine the way it's always been. I played all melee's in League of Legends and practically any fantasy PvP game..and one thing I never understood was ranged players being upset that they're being punished cause a melee is on top of them. PLD and WAR don't even have gap closers. You should 100% be punished by someone applying pressure to you.

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I 100% agree, melee should have full GCD cast times for their attacks, that are interrupted by taking any damage at all.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

I 100% agree, melee should have full GCD cast times for their attacks, that are interrupted by taking any damage at all.

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I'd be okay with that if I could hit you from 20 yards away.

Non-interruption is also present on Smn burst. So it's not like it's just melee. It's more like the other way around where BLM is the only DPS that risks being interrupted while attacking.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I'd be okay with that if I could hit you from 20 yards away.

Non-interruption is also present on Smn burst. So it's not like it's just melee. It's more like the other way around where BLM is the only DPS that risks being interrupted while attacking.

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As opposed to 15 yalms? I'd be fine with the trade-off.

BLM isn't going to be a dps in The Feast, it's going to be an annoyance job.