Please don't join endgame content with a job you dont know how to play

I have nothing against being new to a job, or content. We've all been there, we've all been new at some point - but please, before you join any endgame content, have a basic grasp of your job so as to not grief other players.

For me, I honestly hate getting paired up with another AST player who has no idea how the job functions and is constantly negating my card draws with theirs, or switching to the same sect as to negate our aspected aoes. Since they have no idea how the job works, it leads to just a lot of wasted MP and card draws.

Frustration level off the roof.

Which end game content are you referring to.

To be fair, it sounds like the issue was related to 2x AST, which is hard to learn in basic dungeons where there is only 1 healer. Did you bring any of this up with them during the run?

Also, afaik, AST Sect that gives regen is generally considered better than shields - no? In this case, don't the regens stack like Medica II/Regen?

Gotta agree. There's nothing more annoying than having a farm party, only to have someone join as a job they don't know and not say anything, and when they wipe you get a "Sorry first time on this job for this."

IT's a bit frustrating. Though for DF I don't mind it too much as DF content is a great place to interact with a lot of different playstyles.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Which end game content are you referring to.

To be fair, it sounds like the issue was related to 2x AST, which is hard to learn in basic dungeons where there is only 1 healer. Did you bring any of this up with them during the run?

Also, afaik, AST Sect that gives regen is generally considered better than shields - no? In this case, don't the regens stack like Medica II/Regen?

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Noct, and Diurnal sects each have their own perks. Noct is good for preventative damage if you're familiar with the fight, and know when incoming damage is going to occur. Basically, Noct is good for keeping your teammates from dying to spike damage.

It's not hard to read your ability descriptions though, where it clearly states that the effect cannot be stacked. All it takes is for the player to simply read through the skills to have a general know-how of how the job operates. But to simply throw on a weapon because it got defaulted into your armory because no one wanted it and then trying it out without any idea of how it works is just going to cause a lot of grief among others who you may join with.

(edit: And to clarify, no. The regen aspected Helios does not stack with another Ast's)

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

Noct, and Diurnal sects each have their own perks. Noct is good for preventative damage if you're familiar with the fight, and know when incoming damage is going to occur. Basically, Noct is good for keeping your teammates from dying to spike damage.

It's not hard to read your ability descriptions though, where it clearly states that the effect cannot be stacked. All it takes is for the player to simply read through the skills to have a general know-how of how the job operates. But to simply throw on a weapon because it got defaulted into your armory because no one wanted it and then trying it out without any idea of how it works is just going to cause a lot of grief among others who you may join with.

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Honestly, the base concept of this post is kind of a catch-22. Yeah, you can read your skills and such, you really should be familiar with what they do and all but there really is only so much you can learn outside of end-game content about how to play your job. For the most part, specifically in reference to your main complaint here, you're running mainly 4-man content in which case you will never get to experience 2 of the same tank or healer class together in the same content.

Yes, there's Bismark and Ravana that are 8-mans, and we have Void Ark now, but none of that content is really to the level where it's going to force the kind of 'perfect coordinated play' that is required in the hard end game content. Even Alex NM isn't going to really force you into positions of playing your role to its utmost. I agree, you should have an understanding of how your job works before taking it to that level, but there's no real good way to learn how to play a role in a specific composition for end game.... unless you go and play in that composition in end game.

Also, since you say that you hate getting 'paired up' with another class means you're doing DF stuff... which, first off, is DF so you shouldn't be surprised that you run into some bad players... but also the real end game content where you reeeaaally need to know your job is only available for pre-made groups at the moment.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

I have nothing against being new to a job, or content. We've all been there, we've all been new at some point - but please, before you join any endgame content, have a basic grasp of your job so as to not grief other players.

For me, I honestly hate getting paired up with another AST player who has no idea how the job functions and is constantly negating my card draws with theirs, or switching to the same sect as to negate our aspected aoes. Since they have no idea how the job works, it leads to just a lot of wasted MP and card draws.

Frustration level off the roof.

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Wait until you are on SCH, go into and 8 man, see an AST, see them switch TOO nocturnal sect just before the fight, and then have them overwrite everything you do...............bye bye deployed adlo as the Noct.AST has decided to use A.Helios.....

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Originally Posted by Malzian

Honestly, the base concept of this post is kind of a catch-22. Yeah, you can read your skills and such, you really should be familiar with what they do and all but there really is only so much you can learn outside of end-game content about how to play your job. For the most part, specifically in reference to your main complaint here, you're running mainly 4-man content in which case you will never get to experience 2 of the same tank or healer class together in the same content.

Yes, there's Bismark and Ravana that are 8-mans, and we have Void Ark now, but none of that content is really to the level where it's going to force the kind of 'perfect coordinated play' that is required in the hard end game content. Even Alex NM isn't going to really force you into positions of playing your role to its utmost. I agree, you should have an understanding of how your job works before taking it to that level, but there's no real good way to learn how to play a role in a specific composition for end game.... unless you go and play in that composition in end game.

Also, since you say that you hate getting 'paired up' with another class means you're doing DF stuff... which, first off, is DF so you shouldn't be surprised that you run into some bad players... but also the real end game content where you reeeaaally need to know your job is only available for pre-made groups at the moment.

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Even if you've never done any content as AST (Which is hard to believe, considering that you to level the job.) simply reading the skills should provide you with sufficient knowledge of the job to play correctly. It tells you the effect cannot be stacked, and even goes as far as to tell the player that Noct shields will not stack with Adloq shields. The rest comes with practice, I agree - but if you don't even know the basics of the skills than therein lies the problem.

You don't have to have joined a Savage Alex run to learn what is literally spoon fed to us in the description of each skill as it's learned. It's literally right there. While content like Bis, and Ravana, Void Arc are not at the same level as Alex, you can very well wipe a group if a dps check isn't reached, or you're forcing the other healer to spend all their MP picking up your slack, especially in new content.

I don't mind being paired up with an AST player, and I get paired up with them pretty frequently in Party Finder. Two ASTs can sync with each other pretty well. It's when another AST player has NO idea how the job operates that things become frustrating to deal with, especially when you're losing out on a lot of MP and draws because they have no idea what they're doing. In almost any instance when two AST players find themselves in the same group, they immediately switch to differing sects, even beginners, heck beginners know to switch to Diurnal when they even get partnered up with a SCH. This doesn't require you to have taken on Alex Savage to know, it's honestly the very basic to playing AST.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

Wait until you are on SCH, go into and 8 man, see an AST, see them switch TOO nocturnal sect just before the fight, and then have them overwrite everything you do...............bye bye deployed adlo as the Noct.AST has decided to use A.Helios.....

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Yeah, well I was doing a Ravana with a PF group, and there was another AST who was already on Diurnal, and I was on Noct. They would wait until I draw my AOE Balance card, and then immediately overlap it with an AOE Spear card. Not once, not twice, but 4 times. Then on the next attempt they switched to noct without me noticing and I'm watching my AOEs get overwritten again and again. I just can't imagine how you could play a job and not have any idea how it works. :c

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

You don't have to have joined a Savage Alex run to learn what is literally spoon fed to us in the description of each skill as it's learned. It's literally right there.

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I've done content as everything, since I do have everything leveled and while I am good on a number of the jobs I do feel like some of them I play less efficiently than others. Now, that being said... and I will note this as an actual teacher... there is a rather huge gulf between the theory of how your skills work (i.e.: reading them and taking note of what they tell you) and application of how they work (knowing when to use them, how they interact with other skills, when to skip this skill, etc.)

Theory is easy. Theory is useful. In theory I know how a guitar is supposed to be played, I understand the musical scales and their relationships to each other. Can I play the guitar? Passably, because I've spent hours on hours on hours practicing it, but just reading a book on playing the guitar does not mean I'm going to be able to do it.

Don't confuse theory with application. Having one does not imply you will have the other, and the only place to learn the application of the theory is in the execution of the content itself.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

I've done content as everything, since I do have everything leveled and while I am good on a number of the jobs I do feel like some of them I play less efficiently than others. Now, that being said... and I will note this as an actual teacher... there is a rather huge gulf between the theory of how your skills work (i.e.: reading them and taking note of what they tell you) and application of how they work (knowing when to use them, how they interact with other skills, when to skip this skill, etc.)

Theory is easy. Theory is useful. In theory I know how a guitar is supposed to be played, I understand the musical scales and their relationships to each other. Can I play the guitar? Passably, because I've spent hours on hours on hours practicing it, but just reading a book on playing the guitar does not mean I'm going to be able to do it.

Don't confuse theory with application. Having one does not imply you will have the other, and the only place to learn the application of the theory is in the content itself.

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Your analogy isn't appropriate for this situation.

If you read a book on how a Guitar is supposed to be played, then even if you've never played one in the past, you know the basics like how to hold the guitar, you know that you're supposed to use a pick, etc etc. You don't read a book on a guitar, and try to hold it like a cello, and play the strings with a violin bow. You will never become familiar with playing a guitar if you didn't read the book well enough to know how it's held, or how the strings work - to play efficiently it would be the equivalent of an AST knowing that pairing Celestial Opposition with Luminferous Aether grants you more MP. Or that Lightspeed grants you instant stoneskins. Not something you'd learn from reading the skills like you would read from a guitar guide, like hey DONT USE A BOW on a guitar like you would on a violin, or don't try to stack your shields with another SCH or another Noct Ast.

If you just got finished reading a book on playing a guitar, you don't immediately jump into playing professionally in a band. Your example seems very contrived in order to suit your agenda in the conversation, which leads me to believe that you're only arguing with me here for argument's sake.

How is it physically possible to reach "endgame" without knowing a job considering the eternal suffering of torturous grind it takes to level?

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Originally Posted by Callback

How is it physically possible to reach "endgame" without knowing a job considering the eternal suffering of torturous grind it takes to level?

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A lot of people just FATE grind mindlessly, and pay no mind to the skills I assume. I've seen players completely unaware that they had spells or skills at all because they didn't even take a minute to look through their abilities, nevermind read what they do.

I just don't feel like it's asking much for a player to read their abilities before joining hardish content that requires some effort to accomplish. Otherwise it's a real pain for others to have to carry them.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

Your analogy isn't appropriate for this situation.

If you read a book on how a Guitar is supposed to be played, then even if you've never played one in the past, you know the basics like how to hold the guitar, you know that you're supposed to use a pick, etc etc. You don't read a book on a guitar, and try to hold it like a cello, and play the strings with a violin bow. You will never become familiar with playing a guitar if you didn't read the book well enough to know how it's held, or how the strings work - to play efficiently it would be the equivalent of an AST knowing that pairing Celestial Opposition with Luminferous Aether grants you more MP. Or that Lightspeed grants you instant stoneskins. Not something you'd learn from reading the skills like you would read from a guitar guide, like hey DONT USE A BOW on a guitar like you would on a violin, or don't try to stack your shields with another SCH or another Noct Ast.

If you just got finished reading a book on playing a guitar, you don't immediately jump into playing professionally in a band. Your example seems very contrived in order to suit your agenda in the conversation, which leads me to believe that you're only arguing with me here for argument's sake.

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My analogy is actually very appropriate for this situation. It is -entirely- possible to read a whole book or even a series of book on how to play a guitar and still hold it 'the wrong way'. Now, if you mean holding it upside down and backwards, yeah, but that's a whole other issue. The fact is that there is a very specific way to hold a guitar which you can certainly read about, but it's likely that you (unless you're somehow a natural at it) aren't going to get correct right away. There's a nuance in how you hold the neck, in how you play the strings, all of which you can read about but none of which you will ever fully comprehend until you actually do it. (Oh, and in reference to 'playing a guitar with a bow': Violin bow on electric guitar | Frank Steffen Mueller)

And no, if you just learned to play you don't immediately get up and play in a band, but what you should do is find someone else who does know how to do it and have them help you through. The point still comes down to the fact that you don't learn to play by reading, you learn to play by playing. I'm not sitting here saying, "Don't read your skills." By all means, you should be reading them... but you can't expect everyone to suddenly just understand the proper way to play their job through that alone. Many people need to practice those concepts, they need to work with them and see them in action in order to understand when they're effective and when they're not. By saying to a whole group of people 'Unless you can read these skills and know how to play your job, don't bother' you're only serving to perpetuate the very problem you're complaining about.

Maybe it's a difference in ideology here, maybe it's partly because of what I do for a living, but I'd much rather encourage people to try, fail and try again with some guidance and correction than simply tell people they're not good enough and should simply get out.

I can't explain how funny I find OP's post.

Communication is key, maybe why not adjust yourself to these "new" ast, who obviously might be having a harder time playing that class. I do that multiple times, end up in Castrum or any other 8 man roulette with other astros, I wait to see what sect they activate before I enable my own. As for card override or whatever, that is something that cannot be avoided, you either want both astros simply not using aoe cards at all (and if so communicating and letting the other ast know that aoe is not an option), or you can just ignore the fact that your card got replaced by another one.

If it is not extremely hard content that would require maximizing dps and whatnot, then why bother so much and get so annoyed about something as simply and irrelevant about losing a buff, you will still clear the content.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Which end game content are you referring to.

To be fair, it sounds like the issue was related to 2x AST, which is hard to learn in basic dungeons where there is only 1 healer. Did you bring any of this up with them during the run?

Also, afaik, AST Sect that gives regen is generally considered better than shields - no? In this case, don't the regens stack like Medica II/Regen?

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Double regen is terrible and leads to nothing but overhealing. Any AST that picks diurnal sect when with a white mage or another diurnal ast is bad and should feel bad (though in the case of the latter, both are at fault as either of them could change).

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Originally Posted by Malzian

My analogy is actually very appropriate for this situation. It is -entirely- possible to read a whole book or even a series of book on how to play a guitar and still hold it 'the wrong way'. Now, if you mean holding it upside down and backwards, yeah, but that's a whole other issue. The fact is that there is a very specific way to hold a guitar which you can certainly read about, but it's likely that you (unless you're somehow a natural at it) aren't going to get correct right away. There's a nuance in how you hold the neck, in how you play the strings, all of which you can read about but none of which you will ever fully comprehend until you actually do it. (Oh, and in reference to 'playing a guitar with a bow': Violin bow on electric guitar | Frank Steffen Mueller)

And no, if you just learned to play you don't immediately get up and play in a band, but what you should do is find someone else who does know how to do it and have them help you through. The point still comes down to the fact that you don't learn to play by reading, you learn to play by playing. I'm not sitting here saying, "Don't read your skills." By all means, you should be reading them... but you can't expect everyone to suddenly just understand the proper way to play their job through that alone. Many people need to practice those concepts, they need to work with them and see them in action in order to understand when they're effective and when they're not. By saying to a whole group of people 'Unless you can read these skills and know how to play your job, don't bother' you're only serving to perpetuate the very problem you're complaining about.

Maybe it's a difference in ideology here, maybe it's partly because of what I do for a living, but I'd much rather encourage people to try, fail and try again with some guidance and correction than simply tell people they're not good enough and should simply get out.

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It's not a "whole other issue" it's actually completely relevant to the point at hand. Not placing your hand at the specific right place on the neck, or not resting it correctly isn't the same as, let's say, holding it upside down or backwards. One suggests that you have some idea of how a guitar is played, and the other suggests that you payed little or no attention all to how a guitar is played. The subtle nuance to holding a guitar isn't the same as the explicit description expressed in a skill ability. One is direct, the other isn't.

The whole point of my parallel was that, you don't learn by playing professionally, or in this case by jumping into endgame content. And yes, I agree having players who do know how to play is a good way of learning! But endgame content isn't the appropriate place to search for help, or learn. You don't read a book on how to play the guitar, and learn by playing for the first time on the stage during a professional concert. That is rude, and inconsiderate to the others who are with you, especially if the party is intended as a clear party. You don't have to join endgame content to learn your job, and in fact it's actually counter productive to try to learn that way, as beginners become easily overwhelmed and unaware of what they're doing wrong among the chaos in fights like Ravana, or Thordan. As a teacher, I would assume you would be well aware that as a beginner, you need to learn in content aligned with your experience, not jump in head first in content above your level. You can easily learn these assets in unsynced primal fights, or story content.

I'd much rather encourage people to learn on their own time in content they can keep up with, than content that requires a party to rely on everyone knowing their job to achieve their goal. There's a time and place to learn, and endgame is not that place.

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Originally Posted by Callback

How is it physically possible to reach "endgame" without knowing a job considering the eternal suffering of torturous grind it takes to level?

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people who bought their wins. This is why I also don't approve of sell carries.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Double regen is terrible and leads to nothing but overhealing. Any AST that picks diurnal sect when with a white mage or another diurnal ast is bad and should feel bad (though in the case of the latter, both are at fault as either of them could change).

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Double regen certainly has its uses.

I haven't leveled AST yet, due to having 60 WHM/SCH, so I have got my heals down. I just had the understanding that their shields were not very strong, and that the regen was the way to go. Perhaps this was changed/buffed/nerfed over time and I didn't realize.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

people who bought their wins. This is why I also don't approve of sell carries.

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How is that a possible thing? If I could pay someone to leech my lancer to 34 or whatever the level is to unlock b4b while I AFK on him I would.

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Originally Posted by Vogue

Communication is key, maybe why not adjust yourself to these "new" ast, who obviously might be having a harder time playing that class. I do that multiple times, end up in Castrum or any other 8 man roulette with other astros, I wait to see what sect they activate before I enable my own. As for card override or whatever, that is something that cannot be avoided, you either want both astros simply not using aoe cards at all (and if so communicating and letting the other ast know that aoe is not an option), or you can just ignore the fact that your card got replaced by another one.

If it is not extremely hard content that would require maximizing dps and whatnot, then why bother so much and get so annoyed about something as simply and irrelevant about losing a buff, you will still clear the content.

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I do the same in the sense of adjusting my sect to whichever sect the other AST is more comfortable with. And tend to try to avoid overwritting their draws as to get the most out it. What elicited this thread was the fact that the other AST was switching between sects without my knowledge, and seemed to only activate their cards the moment after I activated mine (Most likely unaware that their cards were overwritting mine.) The party was rather undergeared so we were pushing things rather close, ( A lot of players returning from Hiatus.) so when I had another AST making things far more difficult than it had to be, it became very frustrating stopping the group to explain the basic AST abilities to them, when I felt that they should have already known most of these things considering that they were explained in the skill description.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Double regen certainly has its uses.

I haven't leveled AST yet, due to having 60 WHM/SCH, so I have got my heals down. I just had the understanding that their shields were not very strong, and that the regen was the way to go. Perhaps this was changed/buffed/nerfed over time and I didn't realize.

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The shields are actually reliably stronger than the SCH's in my experience, that and the Aspected Benefic is instant-cast and far more potent than Diurnal's Aspected Benefic, and generates a shield equal to 130% of healing potency. Reliability vs hoping for a crit chance on your SCH. Though I do agree, double regen usually ends up in a silly amount of overhealing.

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Originally Posted by Callback

How is that a possible thing? If I could pay someone to leech my lancer to 34 or whatever the level is to unlock b4b while I AFK on him I would.

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go to the Ul'dah aetheryte and look for black mages with the names "ggrieeedds ffggiddn" and that should answer your question. Also what you're asking can be done but through rmt. Its called a "grind" for a reason so get to working on leveling and understanding your class or get on the forums and complain.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

Yeah, well I was doing a Ravana with a PF group, and there was another AST who was already on Diurnal, and I was on Noct. They would wait until I draw my AOE Balance card, and then immediately overlap it with an AOE Spear card. Not once, not twice, but 4 times. Then on the next attempt they switched to noct without me noticing and I'm watching my AOEs get overwritten again and again. I just can't imagine how you could play a job and not have any idea how it works. :c

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Honestly that sounds like the other AST was trolling you...I really hope there aren't players THAT bad anyway lol

I picked up AST when it was released for 3.0 and I am always mindful of other AST's cards etc. I find some AST are played by trolls though. A few times been in DF where the other AST was trolling me because they actually did emotes at me etc after overwriting my cards or I'll switch to the sect opposite of them and they'll switch to it a second later then I'll switch again and they kept doing that until boss was pulled leaving us both on Noct sect.

Trolls will be trolls I guess.

To be fair nocturnal eats MP like crazy even with all its glory lol

On another note I hope this person didn't have to switch to support what the static needed if so then some patients is in need...DRG is my main but I've had to substitute as almost all other dps besides DRG and the two I don't have at 60...XD

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Originally Posted by Miste

Honestly that sounds like the other AST was trolling you...I really hope there aren't players THAT bad anyway lol

I picked up AST when it was released for 3.0 and I am always mindful of other AST's cards etc. I find some AST are played by trolls though. A few times been in DF where the other AST was trolling me because they actually did emotes at me etc after overwriting my cards or I'll switch to the sect opposite of them and they'll switch to it a second later then I'll switch again and they kept doing that until boss was pulled leaving us both on Noct sect.

Trolls will be trolls I guess.

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I wasn't even aware that people did this, and I'm sorry you had to experience that. Perhaps this was the case, I guess I was hoping that she was merely new and not attempting to troll me as I stopped to try to explain how AST works to her. Which was very frustrating to do during a Ravana.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

go to the Ul'dah aetheryte and look for black mages with the names "ggrieeedds ffggiddn" and that should answer your question. Also what you're asking can be done but through rmt. Its called a "grind" for a reason so get to working on leveling and understanding your class or get on the forums and complain.

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Wait you're thinking these people bought accounts? Just say that in the first place. Like I said, if leeching were actually possible in the game I would probably do it (because of how boring the game is to actually grind through), but there's not so I'm stuck without a full palette of cross-class skills. Still, when you're stuck with a class for as long as this game forces you to suffer through, there's literally nothing to do BUT master it.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

Yeah, well I was doing a Ravana with a PF group

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I would not consider Ravana (assuming you mean EX) "endgame" content at this point in time. When 3.0 was released it was endgame, now I would not consider this true endgame content.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

I would not consider Ravana (assuming you mean EX) "endgame" content at this point in time. When 3.0 was released it was endgame, now I would not consider this true endgame content.

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It is endgame, considering that it requires quite a bit of coordination to actually complete. It doesn't suddenly stop being endgame simply because it's completed more often now due to people having become familiar with it's mechanics. It requires you to reach level 60, acquire an item level, reach DPS checks, and learn it's mechanics. It may not be hardest endgame content, but it is still endgame.

If we're talking about Duty Finder then be thankful that you got an AST that even knows they have stances or the ability to heal.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

The shields are actually reliably stronger than the SCH's in my experience, that and the Aspected Benefic is instant-cast and far more potent than Diurnal's Aspected Benefic, and generates a shield equal to 130% of healing potency. Reliability vs hoping for a crit chance on your SCH. Though I do agree, double regen usually ends up in a silly amount of overhealing.

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The dumb part is that AST can overwrite Adloquium + Deployment tactics with Aspected Helios, or can overwrite a critted shield with a non-crit shield, effectively cutting it by more than half. I'd just as soon have the AST in Diurnal if they're paired up with my SCH, but it's kinda whatever. If they insist on staying in Nocturnal, I typically just leave them to solo heal because there's no point in wasting mana on shields that will get overwritten when I could use it to DPS instead.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The dumb part is that AST can overwrite Adloquium + Deployment tactics with Aspected Helios, or can overwrite a critted shield with a non-crit shield, effectively cutting it by more than half. I'd just as soon have the AST in Diurnal if they're paired up with my SCH.

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I mean, if I'm on AST and I join a party with a SCH I immediately switch to Diurnal. Even if the shield priority was fixed, it makes no sense to have that much shielding going on. But I do agree, the stronger shield should have priority over the weaker one. If a SCH's shield is stronger than the AST's than it should NOT overwrite it, and vise vers, ESPECIALLY if the SCH gets a crit.

But Noct AST's do have some perks that SCH don't have. I mained SCH for a while so I weighed the pros and cons to both jobs. What I love of about Noct AST is that Aspected Benefic is reliably potent and doesn't require the AST to prey for a crit, in addition to that it's instantaneous. Unlike Adloq which has a cast time. That cast time might not seem like much, but during a raid, those instant casts can be the difference between life and death. Each job has it's own perks though, neither is better than the other.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

It is endgame

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I dont want to derail your topic too much, but these conditions you provided don't necessarily mean it is endgame. Titan EX requires coordination, memorization of mechanics and albeit, now a joke of a DPS check. It meets your criteria, yet we can agree it is not endgame. Ravana EX may be considered some mid-core content at this point, but due to extreme outgearing and date of content release, I would not call it endgame. Truly the only endgame is at this point is Thordan EX (this title is waning daily) and savage Alexander.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

I mean, if I'm on AST and I join a party with a SCH I immediately switch to Diurnal. Even if the shield priority was fixed, it makes no sense to have that much shielding going on. But I do agree, the stronger shield should have priority over the weaker one. If a SCH's shield is stronger than the AST's than it should NOT overwrite it, and vise vers, ESPECIALLY if the SCH gets a crit.

But Noct AST's do have some perks that SCH don't have. I mained SCH for a while so I weighed the pros and cons to both jobs. What I love of about Noct AST is that Aspected Benefic is reliably potent and doesn't require the AST to prey for a crit, in addition to that it's instantaneous. Unlike Adloq which has a cast time. That cast time might not seem like much, but during a raid, those instant casts can be the difference between life and death. Each job has it's own perks though, neither is better than the other.

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Yep, I play AST myself though mostly in PvP. Nocturnal Aspected Benefic is truly a troll spell there. xD

It would be so much better all around if there was priority for shield strength between Galvanize/Nocturnal shield like there is when two SCH's are casting Adloquium so that it doesn't overwrite unless the fresh one is stronger than the one that's already there.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

Titan EX requires coordination, memorization of mechanics and albeit, now a joke of a DPS check.

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Not really, you can basically stand in everything aside from things that knock you off the platform if you're unsynced.

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Truly the only endgame is at this point is Thordan EX (this title is waning daily) and savage Alexander.

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You forgot glamour. Glamour is the true endgame.

I already put this debate in pvp way before, but people like "uhh...k? Just ask the AST to diurnal". AST's noct is the best for pvp but it's really a worse if paired with SCH. Aspected Helios overwrite critical Adloquium? WTF lol.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

I dont want to derail your topic too much, but these conditions you provided don't necessarily mean it is endgame. Titan EX requires coordination, memorization of mechanics and albeit, now a joke of a DPS check. It meets your criteria, yet we can agree it is not endgame. Ravana EX may be considered some mid-core content at this point, but due to extreme outgearing and date of content release, I would not call it endgame. Truly the only endgame is at this point is Thordan EX (this title is waning daily) and savage Alexander.

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Titan is level 50 content, doing it as a level 60, you can literally skip almost all of the mechanics. You don't really need to study, or try to reach any dps checks. This isn't the same as Ravana. You mess up a single mechanic in Ravana and you'll wipe the party. Ravana is still relevant, and considered end game because it does require coordination and focus to complete. 8 man story content would be something I'd consider mid-core. Try to duty finder a Ravana and see how that pans out.

Having a party with 2 AST requires more communication than any other healer combo. Especially as mentioned with cards, I personally type out when an enhanced or extended card is out in hopes the other AST sees it and not override with an expanded card. My only beef is with sects, everyone loves diurnal in DF, yet I've seen occasions where no regens are going out and that AST is only using it for the SS increase in cleric. Meanwhile I'm in Noct. having to use a bit more mp healing, not a detriment, just annoying.

Was looking forward to an engaging relic quest like 2.0

Have not played since the first week Anima was released.

Have completely given up on this game. Not throwing my money at it any more.

I want the raids made easier. Not 24 man easy or Alex normal easy but easier. Ravana EX difficulty. I dont raid because %90 of the player base can\\'t even complete core content (Ravana EX).

I am not doing a static bashing my head into a boss for months because 1 or 2 guys can't get it or people get fatigued.

The difficulty curve is stupid.

Nothing in this game encourages people to learn their job or boss mechanics (Yay top end time gear for clearing dungeons you can do blind).

I give up on the community and this game. The devs could very easily encourage all these scrubs to get better but then they're scared they would lose their subs.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Double regen is terrible and leads to nothing but overhealing. Any AST that picks diurnal sect when with a white mage or another diurnal ast is bad and should feel bad (though in the case of the latter, both are at fault as either of them could change).

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making it easier for 1 of the 2 healers to DPS is not good enough reason i see here?

or even both if HOTs are strong

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

Was looking forward to an engaging relic quest like 2.0

Have not played since the first week Anima was released.

Have completely given up on this game. Not throwing my money at it any more.

I want the raids made easier. Not 24 man easy or Alex normal easy but easier. Ravana EX difficulty. I dont raid because %90 of the player base can\\'t even complete core content (Ravana EX).

I am not doing a static bashing my head into a boss for months because 1 or 2 guys can't get it or people get fatigued.

The difficulty curve is stupid.

Nothing in this game encourages people to learn their job or boss mechanics (Yay top end time gear for clearing dungeons you can do blind).

I give up on the community and this game. The devs could very easily encourage all these scrubs to get better but then they're scared they would lose their subs.

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it takes 2 - 3 hours of practice to kill ravana EX it will take even less now since echo has been put there now

you dont need even a static to beat it just put a party finder you will find both ppl willing to practice and ppl willing to help you clear it