to those japanese speakers...

The English forums are blowing up...again. But let's face it, the devs seem to listen more to the Japanese playerbase (a language thing I believe),

so how do the Japanese players feel not only about the relic, but about the game and its content and direction in general since 3.0?

Here is what a quick Google Translate of the General Discussion got me

http://puu.sh/lZhp8/8418027c96.png

So by the looks of it, Japanese players are all hunky-dory over the anima weapons and they love glamouring just as much as I do...

There should be a new sitcom in Japan, "It's Always Sunny in (JP) Eorzea." Also I further assume that FFXIV dev team is definitely ignoring the NA forums and only listen to the JP players.

If you look in game most people are fine with relics like myself its the vocal minority that does a lot of nay-saying and doom and gloom posts. There really isn't a problem with relics. I fully expected a grind because it was what they have done previously.

its not even about the grind that pisses me off........its just the lack of creativity-- at least with 1st relic - we got 2 NEW trials!. Hidi brought us NEW TRAILS - New side story - no new trials.

No new instances at all in 3.15

This needs to addressed and remedied..............b/c many ppl including myself are losing faith in SE. 42% of the player base is in Na, 40% in JPN, 18% in EU. Guess what? NA matters a whole lot and they need to address these concerns............cuz the forms and reddit are exploding right now.

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Originally Posted by AzraelX

its not even about the grind that pisses me off........its just the lack of creativity-- at least with 1st relic - we got 2 NEW trials!. Hidi brought us NEW TRAILS - New side story - no new trials.

No new instances at all in 3.15

This needs to addressed and remedied..............b/c many ppl including myself are losing faith in SE. 42% of the player base is in Na, 40% in JPN, 18% in EU. Guess what? NA matters a whole lot and they need to address these concerns............cuz the forms and reddit are exploding right now.

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This is a hundredth patch its not a tenth patch. Technically the relics should of been released with 3.1 but were delayed. Hundredth patches are minor changs and bug fixes and content that got delayed because they didn't finish it for the main patch. Story and trails almost never come in the hundredth patches.

The point is this isn't a major patch its a very minor one that was stuff that was suppose to be in 3.1

Also there is really no way you can say those statistics are true because you did not survey everyone playing the game.

Not a single Relic mention, good or bad, in that screenshot. They seem to care about emotes and glamours more than anything

Taking a screenshot of part of one page of one sub-forum is hardly enough to say they are "hunky-dory over the anima weapons". Yesterday there were plenty of posts with JP players frustrated over the same stuff people are frustrated about here. The main problem on English GD is 200 people starting new threads to say the same thing rather than continuing the discussion on existing threads.

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

Here is what a quick Google Translate of the General Discussion got me

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/546
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/540

It's under item/quest discussion

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Originally Posted by mp-please

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/546
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/540

It's under item/quest discussion

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To be more specific it looks like this thread is where all the discussion is going on:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/275393

It seems to echo a lot of opinions shared by non-JP players (both positive and negative), but the thread is pretty small. I'm guessing Twitter and LINE are more popular than the OF is on the JP side of things.

I am seeing a lot of complaints on there about the FATEs for the beast tribe dailies taking a long time to spawn. I thought this comment was funny:

このゲーム一番楽しんでるのはゲロルトですわ。

Gerolt is the one enjoying this game the most :)

The JP thread isn't as bad as the NA threads with contains soulless threats like "I will unsub herpderp".

There are some who voiced their concerns, but most are just confused. "Anima is a rehash of Zeta, collect a few things, do dungeons, collect more things". No change in the underlying system. Some other just want small minor changes, such as making HW dungeons available to run undersized(?) (I'm still on the atma stage). Some are asking for an explanation at the next PLL.

gotta remember Jp dont like to make 100 threads on the same subject as we do :)

While they certainly listen to the Japanese demographic more than they ever do to their American/European demographic, you also have to realize the cultural differences and attitudes between the two.

For one, they're not nearly as entitled as our demographic and when they are, they bring their point across in what could be considered a less aggressive, less whiny stance than we do.

I'm not saying they're better, but they're easier to engage in dialogue with and don't resort to sarcastic, caustic tirades nearly as much as we do.

Is it any wonder as to why they listen more to the constructive, sensible feedback that the JP player base give?

Given the choice would you rather talk with a person or a screaming monkey?

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

gotta remember Jp dont like to make 100 threads on the same subject as we do :)

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Definitely. And they are really good at posting threads at the relevant forum section instead of dumping everything in the General Discussion forum. For example, when SE revealed the housing destruction and plot reclamation plan, they made one new thread in the Housing section of the forums to complain and clarify. They also posted on another pre-existing thread which was a complaint thread about the housing system of FF14 in general. On the other hand, the English forums ignores the other forum sections and makes 20 threads on the same topic in the General Discussion section.

I let my money do most of the talking for me. So I'll see you guys in 3.2 probably.

If only the NA forums were as organized, and all the topics are in one place for easier navigation, reading and discussion. People treat this forum like it's reddit.

Not to mention the exaggerating or vague titles people come up with as titles. Click bait.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If you look in game most people are fine with relics like myself its the vocal minority that does a lot of nay-saying and doom and gloom posts.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Also there is really no way you can say those statistics are true because you did not survey everyone playing the game.

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:rolleyes:

There certainly is a large difference in culture, and it's evident in how we hold discussions and present ideas and feedback to the devs. Of course, that isn't to say that JP users aren't without their bad eggs or cringe-worthy moments, but I'm never surprised when I see someone give a sarcastic response to a team member's official response. Just disappointed.

From personal experience, I can say that presentation is everything. The last time someone asked me to pass a request along and gave me a sarcastic reply when doing so, I did as I promised and passed the request along -- but to repay the "favor" I was paid, I laced the request with so much sarcasm and dismissive language that my higher-ups literally laughed it off.

What I'm trying to say is, the devs aren't our flogging posts; they're content creators in what should be a mature environment, and we should start treating it as such.

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Originally Posted by Amiaze

in what should be a mature environment, and we should start treating it as such.

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That is true, and I do not believe everything that reads as snarky is meant that way. There have been multiple things I have said both in game and on forums that people take as me trolling and/or elitest when its a joke, me trying to be helpful or even just sad, disappointed or upset. It's in how you read something and the approach you take when you arrive. The lack of inflection and body language is a bane to the online community. It can really make you seem like a troll when you're not.

As Americans we do have more issues with things like entitlement over other areas of the world which is why I am really interested in how other areas of the world are reacting to 3.x in general. I know I am bored and am finding 3.x worse than 1.x was.

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Originally Posted by Tayolynn

So by the looks of it, Japanese players are all hunky-dory over the anima weapons and they love glamouring just as much as I do...

There should be a new sitcom in Japan, "It's Always Sunny in (JP) Eorzea." Also I further assume that FFXIV dev team is definitely ignoring the NA forums and only listen to the JP players.

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Because you don't know Japanese players, they are used to RNG, they embrace the masochism, i.e. Kancolle, 0% gameplay 100% rng, Gachapon related browser games, F/GO, all RNG as fuck, and they embrace it. They enjoy being screwed over by devs, they think it's fun. Raging from frustration is something they derive enjoyment from.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If you look in game most people are fine with relics like myself its the vocal minority that does a lot of nay-saying and doom and gloom posts. There really isn't a problem with relics. I fully expected a grind because it was what they have done previously.

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Indeed, that was the purposeful design of the original relic chain, the point being it was a long grind to allow players not running end-game to have an avenue open to them to obtain a 'good' weapon - albeit through a long, but not difficult, grind. I'm really not sure what the hell people expected. We talk a lot about entitlement on this forum, this is one of the few times when I think it is fair to talk about a group of players having a terrible sense of entitlement.

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Originally Posted by Tayolynn

So by the looks of it, Japanese players are all hunky-dory over the anima weapons and they love glamouring just as much as I do...

There should be a new sitcom in Japan, "It's Always Sunny in (JP) Eorzea." Also I further assume that FFXIV dev team is definitely ignoring the NA forums and only listen to the JP players.

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To be fair, NA fandoms in general have a tendency to react extremely harshly. Even assuming the devs do read this section. Can anyone blame them for not listening when half the first page has threads essentially calling them idiots? There's a good way to criticise. This isn't it.

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Originally Posted by Roegadyn_Bear

While they certainly listen to the Japanese demographic more than they ever do to their American/European demographic, you also have to realize the cultural differences and attitudes between the two.

For one, they're not nearly as entitled as our demographic and when they are, they bring their point across in what could be considered a less aggressive, less whiny stance than we do.

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If you want to understand the difference, look at the work ethic of Japanese vs American. I won't get drawn into a long discussion about this here, it's off topic and just not worth it. Speaking for myself from my own experience and knowledge, the actual, real life work ethic I see in the US is very poor compared to places like the UK or Germany. To my knowledge Japanese workers have a very strong work ethic and sense of honor and duty compared to most workers in most (all?) other developed nations. I believe that you can see the impact of these cultural differences expressed both in work ethic and the level of entitlement.

TL;DR Broadly speaking Japanese players expect to have to work hard for things, American and other English speaking (in particular) western gamers do not.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

To be fair, NA fandoms in general have a tendency to react extremely harshly. Even assuming the devs do read this section. Can anyone blame them for not listening when half the first page has threads essentially calling them idiots? There's a good way to criticise. This isn't it.

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Along with the entitlement, NA (and most English speaking) fandom reacts overly harshly. There is a point of view that says we have the right to express ourselves however we want, and this being the Internet, they go for it without fear of reprisal. I've always felt that rights come with responsibilities. If you want to have a right to do something, then you need to be prepared to be held accountable, and take responsibility for, the consequences of your action.

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Originally Posted by Elizasylen

Because you don't know Japanese players, they are used to RNG, they embrace the masochism, i.e. Kancolle, 0% gameplay 100% rng, Gachapon related browser games, F/GO, all RNG as fuck, and they embrace it. They enjoy being screwed over by devs, they think it's fun. Raging from frustration is something they derive enjoyment from.

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And if you hate RNG and want something 100% skill, effort, practice based, go play a sport. In real life, there is no RNG. In video games, there is. And often in large quantities. The JP players are okay with RNG because they understand this...

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Stuff.

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That's funny. Last time I checked Japanese people, they don't expect to work hard, they just expect to work long (or at least clock many hours). Powernapping in Japan is also a big thing while their actual production rates are pretty average considering, not something you'd expect from 'hard workers'. Also, why are you drawing the conclusion that other English speaking western gamers do not expect to work for hard things when one sentence before that you say the US work ethic is poor compared to UK/Germany? Bit of a weird generalization there.
Nothing to say about the entitlement and emotion observations though.

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Originally Posted by AzureFlare

That's funny. Last time I checked Japanese people, they don't expect to work hard, they just expect to work long (or at least clock many hours). Powernapping in Japan is also a big thing while their actual production rates are pretty average considering, not something you'd expect from 'hard workers'. Also, why are you drawing the conclusion that other English speaking western gamers do not expect to work for hard things when one sentence before that you say the US work ethic is poor compared to UK/Germany? Bit of a weird generalization there.
Nothing to say about the entitlement and emotion observations though.

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You appear to think that all discussion and argument consists of binary points. The US work ethic is poorer than that I've seen in the UK and Germany. I've lived and worked both sides of the Atlantic, I'm speaking from my personal experience and knowledge. Your experience may vary. However, why does saying that somehow contradict the other point? In a relative sense I would place Japanese workers ahead of European ones in terms of their work ethic and efficiency, and I'd put Europe (including the UK for the most part) ahead of the USA when it comes to work ethic and efficiency Not a very popular opinion on this side of the Atlantic I am certain, we tend to view ourselves (Americans) as the best and do not tolerate dissent.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Stuff

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And why again do you assume me to think binary when you yourself turn your TL;DR into a binary section (Japan: Work hard. West European + NA = Don't work hard. Eh?)? I'm well aware you never stated a binary scale, likewise you never stated a beyond-binary scale. And I never pointed out a 'contradiction', I merely pointed a weird generalization to make based on the information you gave. You could've just said 'Broadly speaking Japanese players expect to have to work harder for things.', but instead you pushed one unidentified score and one low score together in the '0' score segment and one high score in the '1' segment, pushing your variables into a binary identification.
Excuse me, but who's thinking binary again?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

If you want to have a right to do something, then you need to be prepared to be held accountable, and take responsibility for, the consequences of your action.

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Saving this quote for future parser threads whenever someone is against dps players being held accountable.(anti-parser)

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

Saving this quote for future parser threads whenever someone is against dps players being held accountable.(anti-parser)

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LOL! You really should read my posts more closely since I'm neither against a personal parser, nor an optional group one, and very much believe that poor DPS need to be held accountable. But, that is all a different discussion to this, so let's not drag it out here.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If you look in game most people are fine with relics like myself its the vocal minority that does a lot of nay-saying and doom and gloom posts. There really isn't a problem with relics. I fully expected a grind because it was what they have done previously.

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It's not about grinding, but what kind of grind they gave.

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

It's not about grinding, but what kind of grind they gave.

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I have to agree with this, especially after how people complained in 2.0 about the atmas. That's the one part that baffles me. I'd argue that atmas were the most complained about part of relic upgrades, and they gave us the same thing all over again. From what I'm seeing from friends, nobody takes as much issue with farming tomes, beastcoins, alex, etc. since you can actively see your progression. Personally, I like doing things knowing I'm getting somewhere. I think this is perhaps the perspective of most people.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

You appear to think that all discussion and argument consists of binary points. The US work ethic is poorer than that I've seen in the UK and Germany. I've lived and worked both sides of the Atlantic, I'm speaking from my personal experience and knowledge. Your experience may vary. However, why does saying that somehow contradict the other point? In a relative sense I would place Japanese workers ahead of European ones in terms of their work ethic and efficiency, and I'd put Europe (including the UK for the most part) ahead of the USA when it comes to work ethic and efficiency Not a very popular opinion on this side of the Atlantic I am certain, we tend to view ourselves (Americans) as the best and do not tolerate dissent.

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Woah... let's not compare the unemployed in a country full of immigrants to a country full a native people. For the upper echelon of American (those who are not in poverty, which to no surprise poverty is mostly immigrants) in corporate we work harder than in any country I've seen. My company acquired another company in the Netherlands and after a few months the first comment I hear them say is "Wow you guys never take vacation". Any let's not forget, in Japan you can apparently have your whole staff take vacation at the same time, forget deadlines, because they "deserved it". We have people in my company who have 400 hours a vacation racked up because they haven't taken vacation in years. Oh and let's not get into labor laws. When I when to the Netherlands, apparently no employee can work more than 40 hours a week without overtime and everyone must be within viewing distance of a window and you can bring all the vodka you want to your office. Meanwhile, since we are salaried, we Americans regularly work 65-75 hour weeks and still get our regular "40 hour" salary every week with no windows and we have to ask permission to go on vacation, which can be rejected if it would affect productivity of the company.

Please don't use your own poor work ethics and say all Americans are like you. We work very hard and are on top of the world's economy for this reason. And efficiency? Not speaking for other companies but just comparing the rate SE makes software to my own company with similar sized teams (giving SE the benefit of the doubt here and assume they have 1 artist, 1 architect, 1 director, 1 person for administrative tasks, and a couple teams of 4-5 programmers, which they probably have more) they take a very long time to pipeline a very simple (in terms of modifications in patches) piece of software. Perhaps they are a but too vertical or w/e but I think the largest problem may be that they spend too much time deciding how to do things than actually writing code. I they have a single person making decisions, then there's no reason why it takes this long to release patches unless their programmers aren't very productive.

Got a but off topic though, but it's a crime to spread misinformation to this degree. Especially when you intend to lump 330 million people you don't know into a "work ethic" that you have. It may not be the case that we are working harder to achieve the same effect (because we are working smarter) but that means that they have to be a bit more efficient. I didn't bother to ask what ind of work you don't because that's irrelevant but you have made comparisons to a country you haven't worked in so at least back up your dubious claim.

As for the actual topic... maybe you don't see complaints because they don't bother post things with have no logical basis. I would not be surprised if in media in Japan they don't say things out of fear that they would be called an idiot if the majority don't agree (because their opinion is unfounded). Meanwhile in the US we can say what ever idiotic things we want (barring treasonous threats) and don't have to worry about anything.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I have to agree with this, especially after how people complained in 2.0 about the atmas. That's the one part that baffles me. I'd argue that atmas were the most complained about part of relic upgrades, and they gave us the same thing all over again. From what I'm seeing from friends, nobody takes as much issue with farming tomes, beastcoins, alex, etc. since you can actively see your progression. Personally, I like doing things knowing I'm getting somewhere. I think this is perhaps the perspective of most people.

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The only step I wouldn't mind about the relics are the dungeon runs. The grinding for atma, beast tokens esos, craft items etc... etc.. is putting me off.

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

The only step I wouldn't mind about the relics are the dungeon runs. The grinding for atma, beast tokens esos, craft items etc... etc.. is putting me off.

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Actually those are a necessary evil. Before hardy anyone did FATEs in the new area so level up was a chore between roulette. Now people can grind out FATE for better xp rather than bot in N.Than. But with so many people disliking FATE maybe it's time for SE to reexamine them to find a way to make them more epic and fun.

Yes many complainers
Perhaps not related to the thread per say but in case some have not seen this before
LB radio Interview

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Indeed, that was the purposeful design of the original relic chain, the point being it was a long grind to allow players not running end-game to have an avenue open to them to obtain a 'good' weapon .

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I thought the original relic chain required you to do Bowl of Embers, The Howling Eye and The Navel (Hard) where the Navel (Hard) was actually pretty tough in the gear level of the time.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Actually those are a necessary evil. Before hardy anyone did FATEs in the new area so level up was a chore between roulette. Now people can grind out FATE for better xp rather than bot in N.Than. But with so many people disliking FATE maybe it's time for SE to reexamine them to find a way to make them more epic and fun.

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They could also have done dungeons and laugh at the FATE plebs, to be honest. The amount of XP dungeons drop now is insane, especially combined with FC and food buffs. I'd wager enough to compensate for the potentially long queues some roles have.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I thought the original relic chain required you to do Bowl of Embers, The Howling Eye and The Navel (Hard) where the Navel (Hard) was actually pretty tough in the gear level of the time.

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You're right I should have been more specific I was referring to the original Relic upgrade from Zenith, not the acquisition of the relic, and upgrade to Zenith. My apologies for not being clear. The original Zodiak upgrade path was designed to be a grind, as I said. That was what I was referring to. I think it matches the current relic upgrade path since the final form of the original Relic jumps a few steps and dovetails right in.