A3S nerfs incoming

http://mmos.com/editorials/final-fan...ll-hope-to-see

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Yoshi-P has stated as well that Arm of the Father Savage (A3s) would see a nerf in 3.15 due to disappointingly few clears.

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wonder how Yoshi-P feels about a4s

Probably everything will be nerfed. Having content only few people can clear is not $$$healthy$$$ to the game.

Yoshida stated that they're looking into it, that interviewer is a complete misinformed nugget. I mean, what?...

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Following this precedent patch 3.15 may also include a 24-man raid.

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That doesn't indicate that at all, why is this guy writing an article about something he knows seemingly nothing about?

Thordan nerf...it just came out why would they nerf it already. Bit early to judge clear rates. "quare Enix is likely to continue the Void Ark saga with the new raid and carry on the story of the Sky Pirates, potentially giving players Sky Pirate weapons at i205". Never has a 24-man raid given weapons. Wouldnt trust this post even in the slightest. Clearly doesnt know what hes talking about.

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Originally Posted by Daenarys_Targaryen

Thordan nerf...it just came out why would they nerf it already. Bit early to judge clear rates. "quare Enix is likely to continue the Void Ark saga with the new raid and carry on the story of the Sky Pirates, potentially giving players Sky Pirate weapons at i205". Never has a 24-man raid given weapons. Wouldnt trust this post even in the slightest. Clearly doesnt know what hes talking about.

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Pretty much this. It feels like he's just making stuff up to pad his article.

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Originally Posted by Daenarys_Targaryen

Thordan nerf...it just came out why would they nerf it already. Bit early to judge clear rates. "quare Enix is likely to continue the Void Ark saga with the new raid and carry on the story of the Sky Pirates, potentially giving players Sky Pirate weapons at i205". Never has a 24-man raid given weapons. Wouldnt trust this post even in the slightest. Clearly doesnt know what hes talking about.

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While I agree, Yoshida already stated that they aren't bringing any other contents with Thodan EX's difficulty level, so I wouldn't be surprised with a nerf on the upcoming hotfixes.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Probably everything will be nerfed. Having content only few people can clear is not $$$healthy$$$ to the game.

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Actually it is very healthy. Gives something for people to strive toward.

I was expecting A3S to get some sort of nerf (mostly health/damage reductions I guess) due to all the negative feedback here on the forums but Thordan is a real surprise. I don't see many people with the Thordan weapons though.

I have never heard of that site up until now. How valid are they?

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Actually it is very healthy. Gives something for people to strive toward.

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Not when people don't want to do it.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Actually it is very healthy. Gives something for people to strive toward.

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Let me know how that worked out with Coil savage and the original Steps of Faith.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Let me know how that worked out with Coil savage and the original Steps of Faith.

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It stopped people from leaving instantly with Steps of Faith, so quite well I'd say. They aren't comparable types of content though.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Let me know how that worked out with Coil savage and the original Steps of Faith.

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They have not nerfed savage coil. As for the current content, Savage nor Thordan gates story or have random matching so...

Yea, that article has incorrect information, Yoshi did state fewer ppl have cleared then what was projected, and that they monitor clears 3.1 to see if adjustments should be made

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

They have not nerfed savage coil. As for the current content, Savage nor Thordan gates story or have random matching so...

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Not the point I was making. If something is too hard and/or has no rewards (or worthless garbage as rewards) to motivate people, people will not bother to clear it.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Probably everything will be nerfed. Having content only few people can clear is not $$$healthy$$$ to the game.

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Having SOME content that can only be cleared by a few people is fine. MMO players like feeling special/unique. Content that not everyone completes/obtains is an easy way to accomplish that.
The problem is, there's only 1 option for raiding content at the moment, and it's incredibly difficult.
Imagine some of the only worthwhile rewards you could get from Gathering/crafting were only realistically obtainable by a very small percentage of crafters/gatherers; people would rightfully complain. But if there's some worthwhile rewards that aren't as difficult to obtain, most players would probably be okay with that.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

If something is too hard and/or has no rewards (or worthless garbage as rewards) to motivate people, people will not bother to clear it.

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I dare say steps of faith would qualify as giving substantial rewards, Heavensward being gated behind it and all.

Motivation was at an all-time high there. Even so, it was nerfed, likely because Yoshi and the crew realized that forcing people to "git gut" doesn't work when people have the option to just leave the game instead.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Probably everything will be nerfed. Having content only few people can clear is not $$$healthy$$$ to the game.

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It's sensible game design. there's no point in designing content that a very, very small fraction play.

The story and savge mode was supposed to solve this problem.

It's no shock that the super-loud screams from 'the hardcore' were from a very, very small minority so it's lead the inevitable nerf.

As I've said before expect the newer savage raid to be much easier since they misjudged the demographic.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Actually it is very healthy. Gives something for people to strive toward.

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In practice that's not how it works, people just dont do it.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

It's sensible game design. there's no point in designing content that a very, very small fraction play.

The story and savge mode was supposed to solve this problem.

It's no shock that the super-loud screams from 'the hardcore' were from a very, very small minority so it's lead the inevitable nerf.

As I've said before expect the newer savage raid to be much easier since they misjudged the demographic.

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Completely agree with you, my comment was more because I read yesterday someone saying that if "SE don't please raiders, they're gonna lose $$$$$".

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Having SOME content that can only be cleared by a few people is fine. MMO players like feeling special/unique. Content that not everyone completes/obtains is an easy way to accomplish that.
The problem is, there's only 1 option for raiding content at the moment, and it's incredibly difficult.
Imagine some of the only worthwhile rewards you could get from Gathering/crafting were only realistically obtainable by a very small percentage of crafters/gatherers; people would rightfully complain. But if there's some worthwhile rewards that aren't as difficult to obtain, most players would probably be okay with that.

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I see a lot of comments about raids giving an accomplishment feeling when cleared and that it makes the players feel unique but sorry, I can't relate to that, so I guess I'll never understand.

Failing at something and retrying multiple times until you learn every single counter-measure so you can clear it is unbereably boring for me, and when I finally beat something like this it leaves a bittersweet feeling of "God, how much time I wasted killing a monster?". That accomplishment and special/unique feeling only comes to me when I work towards something step by step, with time-sinks and dedication. That's why I'm so hyped for the new relic, it's gonna keep me busy and happy with the game for some time!

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

I see a lot of comments about raids giving an accomplishment feeling when cleared and that it makes the players feel unique but sorry, I can't relate to that, so I guess I'll never understand.

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I really think you can relate.
You ever feel like you wanted something a bit less once you saw that everyone had one? Did you ever really want that new glamour that came out, but once it became less expensive and more people were wearing it, you really didn't want it as much?
I really doubt that you've never experienced something like that, I'm sure some people don't feel it very often, but I doubt anyone is so 'perfect' as to never feel a bit shallow or envious. Sure, it's vain and a bit shallow, but exclusivity and uniqueness is a very desirable thing.

If you're one of the very small percentage of people that has accomplished X difficult task in an mmo, and you have the reward to prove it, you'd probably be of the opinion that it's a good feeling to know you're one of the few.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

I really think you can relate.
You ever feel like you wanted something a bit less once you saw that everyone had one? Did you ever really want that new glamour that came out, but once it became less expensive and more people were wearing it, you really didn't want it as much?
I really doubt that you've never experienced something like that, I'm sure some people don't feel it very often, but I doubt anyone is so 'perfect' as to never feel a bit shallow or envious. Sure, it's vain and a bit shallow, but exclusivity and uniqueness is a very desirable thing.

If you're one of the very small percentage of people that has accomplished X difficult task in an mmo, and you have the reward to prove it, you'd probably be of the opinion that it's a good feeling to know you're one of the few.

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On games? Nope, never felt like it. I feel like this when people start reading something I love and ruining it with memes and the like.
Even when I played Ragnarok, and was in one of the first groups to kill MVP Beelzebub after Nameless dropped, I didn't feel that special. I felt special when I did the Level 4 Weapon quest and got me a Slash. As I said, maybe because I come from previous games from this franchise and other old J-RPGs, what makes me feel accomplished is finishing a heavy questline, where I had to dedicate myself and work to get my reward.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I dare say steps of faith would qualify as giving substantial rewards, Heavensward being gated behind it and all.

Motivation was at an all-time high there. Even so, it was nerfed, likely because Yoshi and the crew realized that forcing people to "git gut" doesn't work when people have the option to just leave the game instead.

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The issue was Steps of Faith was done so badly by the player base that any time it popped up in the roulette, people would rather bail and take the 30 minute penalty than to deal with people who were new to the trial or were just bad at it. This, in turn, made it even more difficult for people who still needed to clear it since now nobody wanted to help them. I didn't see motivation. I saw people not wanting to waste their time on a trial that doesn't reset on a wipe.

Steps of faith got nerfed for obvious reasons (*cough*they want people to be able to unlock expansion*cough*)

Coil nerfs came out progressively and then when caps were removed, further nerfs occurred (I mean, it was pretty old by that point anyway).

Does Thordan need to be nerfed? I mostly have done it with party finder groups. So far, I've farmed enough tokens for the barding and several weapons as well as getting drop weapons. I haven't really even done it with my static all that much. In a month everyone will probably have relic weapons that will be better anyway. If they nerf it in a month, it won't really matter all that much. But I think most of us know that with ravana having better weapons than bismarck, that people didn't ever do bismarck all that much. Sadly this will probably happen to thordan when alex is nerfed and relics are out.

Considering that diadem is making many of the drops in alexander seem not that hot, perhaps a alex nerf wouldn't be a bad thing. It would have been a lot more timely if it happened with some new alexander fights to do however. I have a feeling that the next patch there will be nothing much to do but grind out your relic. I know the people that still want clears are going to do be doing alex, but even they will get bored after a few clears if it's just glamour gear to them.

Personally I don't like nerfs, not because players will be beating content they don't "deserve" to, but just cause even those people getting clears after the nerf will get super bored quickly since they won't be getting anything good out of it but maybe the achievement. It might even be that much harder to find anyone willing to go and it was already difficult to find people that were interested.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

While I agree, Yoshida already stated that they aren't bringing any other contents with Thodan EX's difficulty level, so I wouldn't be surprised with a nerf on the upcoming hotfixes.

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While yes he said that, which is unfortuante Thordan is great. I highly doubt they would nerf it in the patch right after it came out. Itll be around a month since we got Thordan way too early for a nerf. Alex Savage I can see getting nerfed thats fine, but not Thordan.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

Personally I don't like nerfs, not because players will be beating content they don't "deserve" to, but just cause even those people getting clears after the nerf will get super bored quickly since they won't be getting anything good out of it but maybe the achievement. It might even be that much harder to find anyone willing to go and it was already difficult to find people that were interested.

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The other end of the spectrum is that the (only) content available is too excessively hard that people don't want to attempt it for various reasons (burn out being the primary one). I know this is the case for A3s on my server and at least 4 of the members we had to go through.

When a nerf goes out, it's usually in the form of a content patch (or mid patch which adds a new tier afterwards) that comes with other things.

If it ever does get nerfed, that's disappointing. I'd like to clear it in its initial difficulty

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

If it ever does get nerfed, that's disappointing. I'd like to clear it in its initial difficulty

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Serious question, why haven't you done it yet?

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

Serious question, why haven't you done it yet?

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Based on the join date, they recently got the game. Probably had to go through all of 2.X for a while before they hit 60.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Based on the join date, they recently got the game. Probably had to go through all of 2.X for a while before they hit 60.

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Maybe, but not everyone joins the forums at the same time as joining the game.

As a semi-casual I'd try Alex savage just to complete it or farm weapons if they were available. Except I kept seeing, healer or DPS needed, be on A3 or know fight or boot. Then some reason even in the beginning there was the occasional max ilevel (~200) requirement ???. While I have no opinion to agree or disagree about what adjustments are needed. I just don't care. By the time I get a DPS and Healer to 60 and geared for savage, and memorized videos for content I've never done before. Alex normal Part 2 would have been released and other methods for getting gear upgraded would have become available. Then by the time I do get access to pt.2 other avenues to gear up and advance would have become available and possibly pt.3 or raid #2

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Not when people don't want to do it.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

Serious question, why haven't you done it yet?

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A combination of being late, needing to improve my skill, and I have yet to find a stable static group. The static I'm in now, which had previously been held up at the hand of pain, has all but broken up because of a string of abysmal pugs for A1/A2.

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

A combination of being late, needing to improve my skill, and I have yet to find a stable static group. The static I'm in now, which had previously been held up at the hand of pain, has all but broken up because of a string of abysmal pugs for A1/A2.

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That's part of the reason for the decline too as if content is harder it's more difficult to get a group that can succeed on it, or more realistically, be patient enough to succeed.

Most FF players aren't trained like raiders in 'other MMOs' where it could take months to down a boss.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

That's part of the reason for the decline too as if content is harder it's more difficult to get a group that can succeed on it, or more realistically, be patient enough to succeed.

Most FF players aren't trained like raiders in 'other MMOs' where it could take months to down a boss.

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It's also because FF14 gives better gear every few months, so most people figure it's better to just wait for that instead of beating their heads against a stone wall for a reward that'll only put them slightly ahead by the next patch. Not to mention people would probably not like doing the same content for months or over a year for a particular reward.

It sounds like nonsense, and I bloody well hope it is. Nerfing Thordan would be absurd. While I appreciate the devs want content being more accessible, the whole intent behind EX/Savage trails are their difficulty. I want A3 to kick my ass until I figure it out. What purpose does that fight even serve if it isn't hard? You get gear you will never need and a meaningless achievement title. Leave some of the content hard and the rest easier.

There are a lot of good players who can potentially clear a3 and a4 savage, the problem is having a group with 7 other players who can play at acceptable level and can play at the same time as you at least 2-3 times a week, also there is a lack of good leaders and raid and group leading requires doing things that will upset other people often and there's no real reward for it. Also players are not provided with tools to improve their game, there is no in game parser and ACT can be complicated and is not even officially sponsored. There is a lack of guides as well in my opinion and they are hard to find.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It sounds like nonsense, and I bloody well hope it is. Nerfing Thordan would be absurd. While I appreciate the devs want content being more accessible, the whole intent behind EX/Savage trails are their difficulty. I want A3 to kick my ass until I figure it out. What purpose does that fight even serve if it isn't hard? You get gear you will never need and a meaningless achievement title. Leave some of the content hard and the rest easier.

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At the same time, some people don't want A3s to be kicking their ass for 3+ months, esp when it's the only (current) raid content we have, the step behind that being alexander normal (which is unfortunately Dfable and doesn't have that long of a shelf life)

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Originally Posted by Mizaeron

There is a lack of guides as well in my opinion and they are hard to find.

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I have to disagree with this. There is lot good text guides, video guides or picture guides like this http://i.imgur.com/EJXEalr.png where you can see exactly what happen and when.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I want A3 to kick my ass until I figure it out.

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If it takes you this long to do it then it's not targeted at you and the only way you've done is is by over gearing it.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Yoshida stated that they're looking into it, that interviewer is a complete misinformed nugget. I mean, what?...



That doesn't indicate that at all, why is this guy writing an article about something he knows seemingly nothing about?

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Sounds like most journalism these days.

I think normal Coil had the perfect difficulty. Savage Alexander is really too much. When statics are disbanding left and right because they can't pass dps checks, you know there's a problem.

A good portion of the player base continue to play because they raid. If you make the raid too challenging, where 99% raiders (not players, raiders) can't clear it and end up disbanding then you're killing off your own player base.