Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

Apparently Yoshi P finally commented on his stance on plds:

Source is here (mind you its japanese):

http://ff14net.2chblog.jp/archives/46326984.html

Translation by courtesy of Octopus over at BG:

Quote:

---

YoshiP: "I don't think PLD is weak"
- PLD will continue to be the best defensive tank.
- There will be adjustments to its skills in 3.1
- Magic will never be able to be blocked
- There will be more physical attacks in raids

---

Well that's... disappointing (that it won't change until 3.1).

At least the meta sounds like it might mix damage types in the future, so perhaps PLD won't be quite so hampered.

I'm surprised they aren't making adjustments prior to 3.1, since they've already adjusted several classes. Is their internal data showing that PLDs are used more than MNKs and ASTs were prior to their buffs? Or are they planning major skill adjustments? Most of the adjustments so far have been fairly minor (with AST receiving the largest number of adjustments).

They're not weak, they're just poorly designed and implemented. I mean if they were weak we would need to make adjustments to bring them in line... oh wait.

I'm more surprised that they're going to make us wait out to 3.1. You've been bad for 4 months continue to pay us for another 2 months so you can keep playing an imbalanced job. By then, everyone would have made the jump to WAR and DRK or simply quit that we won't even need the changes because all the complaints stopped. *Class balance*

Do we even have job/role leads? If not, This is the reason we need someone dedicated to provide reasonable feedback to.

Thank you for the translation. I am a happy PLD now that i know that there will be changes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alahra

I'm surprised they aren't making adjustments prior to 3.1, since they've already adjusted several classes. Is their internal data showing that PLDs are used more than MNKs and ASTs were prior to their buffs? Or are they planning major skill adjustments? Most of the adjustments so far have been fairly minor (with AST receiving the largest number of adjustments).

---

The chances of PLD getting major buffs are very slim. I'm betting their probably going to increase hate generation from weapon skills on the RoH combo string. and maybe a bump to shield swipe.

I could be wrong. But that's my bet.

PLD is the only job in the game with no confirmed A4S clears whatsoever, I've seen A4S clears with monks, A4S clears with astrologians (granted, this was Lucrezia with the fight on farm), but so far not a single paladin has been able to beat the current hardest raid. Yoshi did also insist for months before 2.1 that WAR was fine and people didn't know how to play it, so who knows, at this point its a coin flip whether we get the class to become remotely relevant again except for playing Shiny Knight Armor Dressup or it continues to sink into irrelevancy as the WAR/DRK meta fails to ever change in any meaningful way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hioki

They're not weak

---

I kinda agree, the power is there, but it lacks a few things that give PLD's competitors an edge. Like even though Flash scales with attack power, it doesn't scale with DPS abilities like with DRK/WAR's AoE's meaning hate generation will be static and has no room for growth during battle, which would be great if there were any mobs that had super high damage reduction (like old school Irion Giants) to make the static enmity generation useful. Second, PLD doesn't really bring anything to the table that benefits the party, the few abilities they do have (Cover, Divine Veil, STR down) are quirky and situational. Don't get me wrong they're good, but nothing is consistent, not all mobs use Physical AoE's/attacks religiously and many favor magical abilities end-game, but damage down is consistent across the board.

I could probably go on but you get the idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

PLD is the only job in the game with no confirmed A4S clears whatsoever.

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYKsS14fBZw

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tranquil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYKsS14fBZw

---

Ah, I see this finally changed, my bad then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

Ah, I see this finally changed, my bad then.

---

Yeah, NP. FYI I agree PLD needs changes but just just felt like posting that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

Ah, I see this finally changed, my bad then.

---

Yeah, I'd like to be one of those PLDs who stand out, but I'm not raid-ready.

by definition PLD must have the lowest damage output of all tanks so they will just beef it enough to meet a dps check after gearing up IMO. I think he said it already
YoshiP: "I don't think PLD is weak"

So if you recall 2nd Coil when paladins were solo tanking ....it's OVER. To clarify I wouldn't get too excited...

I wouldn't oppose nor be surprised if the Goring Blade DOT was enhanced and Royal Authority just got a small potency increase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

Ah, I see this finally changed, my bad then.

---

Yeah, I think there's one confirmed clear so far and it was what, 3-4 weeks after the first clear?

It's sad that the party had to gear up that much to compensate for a PLD. -.-

Hopefully the skill adjustments can actually make us somewhat relevant again. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

PLD is the only job in the game with no confirmed A4S clears whatsoever, I've seen A4S clears with monks, A4S clears with astrologians (granted, this was Lucrezia with the fight on farm), but so far not a single paladin has been able to beat the current hardest raid. Yoshi did also insist for months before 2.1 that WAR was fine and people didn't know how to play it, so who knows, at this point its a coin flip whether we get the class to become remotely relevant again except for playing Shiny Knight Armor Dressup or it continues to sink into irrelevancy as the WAR/DRK meta fails to ever change in any meaningful way.

---

There's been at least one kill.

They'll have to make some fairly significant changes if they're making us wait til 3.1. The other two tanks already have raid wide damage reduction that isn't limited by range of stupid triggers. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Hopefully the skill adjustments can actually make us somewhat relevant again. :p

---

It won't be skill adjustments the problem is not Paladin it's the alexander raid design flaw that left them least desirable... of course a Paladin's weapon has a significantly lower auto attack potency (use the base esoteric weapon as example) for 55.25, WAR: 84.85 and DRK 73.01 .. yes Paladin has the shortest delay but regardless that is the trade off for the ability to block.. but where SE went wrong is not here, it's the raid that should have really had a formula to use one tank as a meat shield and one as a hybrid. This is why Paladin always tanked, say Bahamut Prime...

That was before 3.0. We have a whole slew of new abilities that are lackluster at best and are still not the best mitigation tank because of the raid wide damage reductions both war and drk have. -10% damage applied to 8 people is much more significant than any damage mitigation a shield can provide. Now, if they were to make divine seal similar up time to reprisal and storms path then we're talking reasonable changes. You can't apply the raid meta argument to all aspects of PLD unfortunately or we wouldn't have been complaining since the first attempts of Alexander savage. Meta shift or not, drk and war are still better options for both dps output AND raid wide mitigation simultaneously.

Edit: Drk is going to need some utility changes/ability cohesion fixes also once the meta shifts away from magic damage but Pld has these issues whether the meta is in favor of physical damage or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimaS

of course a Paladin's weapon has a significantly lower auto attack potency (use the base esoteric weapon as example) for 55.25, WAR: 84.85 and DRK 73.01 .. yes Paladin has the shortest delay but regardless that is the trade off for the ability to block..

---

Take another look at those weapons. Divide the auto-attack potency shown there by the delay on each one... and they all end up at the exact same potency/second of 24.67. Paladin does not have a weaker weapon than the others. There's just a temporary infinitesimal main stat disadvantage in any situation where the weapon has been upgraded before the shield.

PLD isn't broken or unbalanced. I don't understand the millions of rants on the forums over this issue. You can have the highest mitigation in the game and have amazing DPS at the same time.

So magic damage is an issue with the new raid content and DRK so happens to get a magic reduction ability. Let's burn the class at the stake now. What happens when we get another raid with mostly physical. Pretty sure that will be the greatest thing since sliced bread and no one will be complaining then.

Yes sure some abilities need some tweaking, but let's see they are new abilities that have been implemented for 3 months? Enmity shouldn't be an issue. No issues holding hate off burst openers with my raid group that does insane damage.

Sorry for the rant but I'm just tired of hearing the doom and gloom regarding the job.

I'd have to agree but the majority of the doom and gloom mentality is coming from bandwagon PLD who have an idealistic approach to job changes. The players who actually understand the job know that aside from its physical mitigation strengths the job brings very little to the table. In comparison, drk and war (both able to tank equally as well as PLD) have raid wide damage reduction capabilities, int debuff, insane off gcd self healing and dps that is unrivaled by PLD when all are equally geared//skilled. Again, not doom and gloom- just stating the reality of 3.0 PLD. The sooner people realize that our utility is absolute garbage at the moment, the sooner we'll have reasonable skills to rival drk/war RAID UTILITY.

so second half alex savage will be more physical? Wow that's great news for us plds now we will be taken all the time yay :)

Sarcasm mode off well plds still have no place unless you have cleared a4s on another class which the other two tanks never had to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisinel

What happens when we get another raid with mostly physical. Pretty sure that will be the greatest thing since sliced bread and no one will be complaining then.

---

As long as raid DPS requirements remain the same and no DPS adjustments are made to Paladin, Paladins will still be tank that requires an entire month of extra gear to finish Savage raids. Paladins only started finishing this content after their raids were wearing full i210 (sans weapons).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisinel

What happens when we get another raid with mostly physical

---

Unless the auto attacks are hitting like a truck and at a high frequency? Nothing. Randomized tank busters that aren't predictable could also work in our favor a bit. But other than that WAR has the tools to handle the threatening Tank busters and DRK basically has our cool downs for them, minus Shieldtron. But I can easily see that being worked around.

That and even if we do get back to tanking (probably will with these incoming updates if placed right, only need a bit to be viable.). Making 1 tank for physical and the other for magical, as someone else said, is bad game design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

Ah, I see this finally changed, my bad then.

---

And it's the Japanese people again guys, not the shortsighted NA people who mostly reject any PLD right away into touching any savage at all.

Because Lucrezia's Paladin didn't quit the job and go Warrior or anything. This is clearly just shortsighted NA people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisinel

snip..

Sorry for the rant but I'm just tired of hearing the doom and gloom regarding the job.

---

Mainly plds spoiled by 2.x where they were always default MT and de facto solo tank on content where a second tank wasn't mandatory.

I'm not saying pld isn't in a bad spot now, but the amount of outrage seen over this is grossly inproportionate to the absolute lack of tantrums WAR mains ever threw when we weren't even wanted for half the content out there. Yes pld needs tweaks. But don't be goddamn babies just because you don't have a monopoly on the primary tank slot in all parties now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

Mainly plds spoiled by 2.x where they were always default MT and de facto solo tank on content where a second tank wasn't mandatory.

I'm not saying pld isn't in a bad spot now, but the amount of outrage seen over this is grossly inproportionate to the absolute lack of tantrums WAR mains ever threw when we weren't even wanted for half the content out there. Yes pld needs tweaks. But don't be goddamn babies just because you don't have a monopoly on the primary tank slot in all parties now.

---

That is what I feel... I never went to the forums and nonstop bitched about lack of WAR desire when PLD was solo tanking T7 and T9, even when T5 .. then SE decided to design future raids that would need both (FCOB) and T10 became the Warriors introduction to DPS/Off tanking ; that raid was used to highlight holmgang..T11 They had the Cube Crit and the Sphere do more damage, T12 had adps check (bennus) and 13 they even forced a PLD MT and had the WAR DPS and run ALL OVER the place, snap aggro the adds etc.. this was the beginning of the metamorphosis of what warrior was described to BE and what it WAS. Paladin was ALWAYS the tank that could eat anything, best COOLDOWN rotation.

Now..however, there is competition. DRK simply cannot take over for warrior so it's being used as main tank

Quote:

---

- There will be adjustments to its skills in 3.1

---

We'll see how this goes, I guess.

Given how little the changes seem to be and how late 3.1 is please hotfix. If for no other reason to get feedback on the changes.

Honestly, while mixing damage more will benefit PLD a little, I see the most progression groups taking a good look at how tight LB timing is (not very in progression usually, lower gear. slower kill, more LB) before going double WAR.

Any words in the article on DRK or WAR?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

Mainly plds spoiled by 2.x where they were always default MT and de facto solo tank on content where a second tank wasn't mandatory.

I'm not saying pld isn't in a bad spot now, but the amount of outrage seen over this is grossly inproportionate to the absolute lack of tantrums WAR mains ever threw when we weren't even wanted for half the content out there. Yes pld needs tweaks. But don't be goddamn babies just because you don't have a monopoly on the primary tank slot in all parties now.

---

Not entirely sure about that; I do remember a cataclysmic increase in salt levels during that time. I will agree the relative difference between WAR and PLD back then was absolutely massive, compared to the current difference.

OP: Good, this is what I thought PLDs needed; hopefully it's done well.

If I remenber correctly it was roughly the same. Lots of WARs started asking for fixes when they started being excluded, a few legacy PLDs responded with almost an identical thing to current WARs - it was about time PLD got some action after two years of never being used for anything in 1.x

(The 1.x scenario was much worse. PLD was only used in 1 fight for all of 1.x - ifrit extreme. It was basically a class to stand in town on. 1.x had other such balance gems as WARx2 BLMx5 WHM and WAR WHM MNKx6 in its endgame - same director, same team.)

Salt levels were largely the same as well, it started with good natured attempts at discussing ways to change class balance for the better but was met with backlash and Yoshi saying it wasn't a problem. Then salt levels rose at the same time as people started getting on side, which was and is odd. I really don't think that time or this time were/are particularly salty though.

Most importantly: Persistence paid off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeYow

The 1.x scenario was much worse. PLD was only used in 1 fight for all of 1.x - ifrit extreme. It was basically a class to stand in town on. 1.x had other such balance gems as WARx2 BLMx5 WHM and WAR WHM MNKx6 in its endgame - same director, same team.

---

Indeed things were pretty bad back then.

I'm surprised people think PLDs want a monopoly on tanking. I was one of those PLDs who was saying WAR needed adjustments back in 2.0 because I wanted there to be parity between the tanks, so that both are interchangeable and can be used to clear content. When all tanks/heals/DPS can do all content without being excluded due to arbitrary bullshit, everyone wins.

Quote:

---

it started with good natured attempts at discussing ways to change class balance for the better but was met with backlash and Yoshi saying it wasn't a problem.

---

This is also true, Yoshida going and saying people were doing it wrong was not helping in any way. I sort of wish I had challenged the devs to produce a WAR gameplay video showing exactly how they expected WAR to be played in coil, since according to them WAR was perfectly viable and fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

This is also true, Yoshida going and saying people were doing it wrong was not helping in any way. I sort of wish I had challenged the devs to produce a WAR gameplay video showing exactly how they expected WAR to be played in coil, since according to them WAR was perfectly viable and fine.

---

Tbf, WAR was capable of doing all content in 2.0... just at a higher gear level. They expected the gear level required for WAR would also be the required gear level for PLD, but obviously that didn't hold true. Same thing is currently happening with PLD, needs higher gear to do the same thing the other tanks can do with lower gear. I don't think 3.0 PLD = 2.0 WAR, though - non-existant mitigation is a bit more of a problem than slightly falling behind the DPS curve. That said, PLD still needs changes and I hope that the ones coming in 3.1 will bring the job up to par.

Higher iLv is not really something you want to have to resort to though.

PLDs problems aren't as bad but the competition is more fierce with DRK available now, also where WAR had one crippling disadvantage PLD has a wide array of smaller ones.

I really wish the DEVs would open up about how they test, they showed a blog image right around the release of 2.0 where they were testing T2, in full allagan gear and weapons, I hope their policy is to test at the minimum iLv for entry because as a lot of people have stated here, imbalance is felt a lot less in overgeared scenarios but most of the serious content is done when you are not overgeared and imbalance is felt a lot more.

So for the Nth time I am going to please ask a community mod or Dev to put themselves forward and have discussion rather than us have this one way dialogue through interviews. :/

Edit: I went into 2.0 WAR main and 3.0 PLD main. I sure know how to pick em :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

Yes pld needs tweaks. But don't be goddamn babies just because you don't have a monopoly on the primary tank slot in all parties now.

---

We don't want a monopoly on the primary tank slot though. We just want to be reasonably competitive.

for people here saying that WAR wasn't salty, you guys obviously missed the tsunami at 2.0, and apparently also missed the small maelstrom of DRK at the beginning of 3.0...

I'm glad to see a response at least it means they have been reading, but knowing them I'm expecting this super small change that will be barely noticeable and just call it a day. Like people said here, It's not right to say pld are fine when they have to wait an entire month and not only pld but they raid party to compensate for having a pld on their group.

I also fail to understand how a great sword can mitigate more magic than a shield, anyways I don't care when the changes are coming as long as they are coming idk why people are complaining about the time, in fact we should be happy we finally getting some since we haven't really got any adjustments since 2.0-2.1.

let's see how it plans out, but I kinda have this vive that they really don't give to much of a @#$%^ and they just going to do....something not really that relevant... I just hope it's a change enough to make me want to have my PLD back since it kinda burns me that I spend so much eso on chest,hands,head and shield before my bias self finally understood that PLD isn't just what it was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeYow

PLDs problems aren't as bad but the competition is more fierce with DRK available now

---

Inability to clear content until weeks later where everyone is already geared up to off set the lack of natural ability the job has is just as bad, as from I am reading, that's what merited changes to WAR, the inability to clear endgame raids on a consistent basis until everyone else was geared up if at all.. It has nothing to do with competition at this point, but just the ability to actually clear something w/o holding your group back for weeks to months and being pigeon holed into another class that you don't like.

Honestly, no matter what they do to PLD, as long as PLD doesn't get any higher mitigation through additional traits for natural defense or cool downs, higher DPS to match WAR and DRK, some crazy utility that raid comps can't live w/o, or SE produce fights that revolve around consistent heavy damage to take advantage of our shield which would be bad game design as it would be the same as taking advantage of parry, WAR/DRK is going to win due to the higher damage output.

You can have too much DEF and Curing. That limit has always been if you can live through the strongest attack and a hit or two after, you're good. Any more DEF or Curing after that is a waste. All tanks can live through predictable tank busters. If PLD mitigation for physical attacks were that great, a lot of groups would have started reincorporating them back in A3, where physical damage was present and consistent enough. They haven't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seku

[this.

---

^ more clear impossible...

I think the developers wanted the Dark Knight class to be a success and that many people tried the new class to the end. Edit: job, not class.

This has made PLD in disadvantage right now for the difficult raids. It takes time to balance jobs and 3 jobs are probably more difficult to balance than 2. Warrior was in disadvantage for some time, and changes were made. Let's see what comes.