new crafted gear useless for raid and so is materia V?

so just wondering about the thought process that SE decided to delay, but eventually when we get the crafted gear its useless for Savage/Progression, as well as the dificulty to obtain Level V Materia.

if I look at the past, this was the trend. when i was in odin server, only few people could aford to get the best crafted gear early and then penta Meld it with Materia IV. those people were either gill buyers or those who sell runs. one guy in particular controled all server sales in Odin, if he decided to penta meld a new item, the Materia Prices for IV would go up like crazy. a single person would affect the macrket so much.

i guess in 3.0, Square-Enix was trying to avoid Gil Buyers / Sell runners from affecting and controling marckets by making new crafted gear worthless for progression and making matria V not easy available for them to penta meld them?

or is it just all about lucrezia and those high end raiders, they dont want them to complete savage in a few days using that gear?

while that idea runs into my mind, i feel that, this is also not the optimal solution to the origional problem. what do u guys think? i would not mind to have the old situation back, if we can have usefulll crafted stuff for progression and easy available Materia V . i dont really care about gill buyers or sell runners, we can't stop them , they are part of the game and we can't get rid of them anyway.

Useless for savage progression? Someone should tell Lucrezia's War, he was using a full set of jewelry.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Useless for savage progression? Someone should tell Lucrezia's War, he was using a full set of jewelry.

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That's a case only with tanks, sadly.

Pentamelded slaying accessories are still bis if you need Vit and damage.

Slaying > i150 penta > Fending

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Originally Posted by starLivitation

so just wondering about the thought process that SE decided to delay, but eventually when we get the crafted gear its useless for Savage/Progression, as well as the dificulty to obtain Level V Materia.

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Yoshi stated awhile back that crafted gear was too OP, and allowed people to clear the content far faster than they intended. He stated that they wont be making it like that again. Its been brought up in the dozens of other threads about the crafted gear. The less demand for gil buying is a happy bonus.

They didn't want the new raid to be cleared in 1 week like Final Coil. With penta melded gear some groups that could afford it were able to power through and down Final Coil on week 1. Without crafted gear being an option this time people are getting stuck on dps checks a lot more.

I am totally fine with crafted gear coming to power as long as Strength is added to Vitality Gear, and Vitality is added to all other pieces of gear.

It's not really useless. I have FC neighbor that using all ilv 150 vit gear for his WAR with pentameld tier 4 strength and he's totally did fine.

Why do crafters need to feel important to endgame raiders? I really cannot understand this. I don't want to have to depend on crafters, and now that we are finally in this situation of not needing them and their nice prices, so much crafter qq. Can't u be happy making housing items and glamour prisms?

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Originally Posted by Eul

It's not really useless. I have FC neighbor that using all ilv 150 vit gear for his WAR with 5 pentameld tier 4 strength and he's totally did fine.

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25 Vitality+35 Strength?

OP much?

when you can put all the main stat materia to crafted gears then it deserved to be nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

25 Vitality+35 Strength?

OP much?

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Probably for WAR who want STR + VIT?

As long as crafting and gathering continue to be a retarded gilgrind they should be kept as far as possible from raid progression.

As a crafter myself, I have no issue whatsoever with not having BiS (except tank). I'm perfectly content with making glamour gear and furniture. Glamour gear sells far better than BiS gear anyway, since people an afford it more easily.

Penta-melded 150 accessories are great for ALL tanks in progression, not just WAR.

Sure, there's situations where an MT may need more VIT, but having that set is godly for when you don't

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Yoshi stated awhile back that crafted gear was too OP, and allowed people to clear the content far faster than they intended. He stated that they wont be making it like that again. Its been brought up in the dozens of other threads about the crafted gear. The less demand for gil buying is a happy bonus.

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Gil buying will always be there. Making stuff that is worth buying doesn't encourage gil buying anymore than someone crafting 99 of a sought after food buff and selling it does.

Or all these people selling clears...

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Gil buying will always be there. Making stuff that is worth buying doesn't encourage gil buying anymore than someone crafting 99 of a sought after food buff and selling it does.

Or all these people selling clears...

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What encourages gilbuying is having in-game things cost a lot of gil. So the current situation with crafting (and housing whenever new plots open up) does encourage gilbuying.

If there were no high prices, there would be no reason to buy gil.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Penta-melded 150 accessories are great for ALL tanks in progression, not just WAR.

Sure, there's situations where an MT may need more VIT, but having that set is godly for when you don't

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It's really just the way all fending accessories should be.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Gil buying will always be there. Making stuff that is worth buying doesn't encourage gil buying anymore than someone crafting 99 of a sought after food buff and selling it does.

Or all these people selling clears...

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Actually, it does... a lot of the time. The problem is that crafters set their prices ridiculously high, to the point that unless the buyer is also a crafter who has a huge amount of gil (which means they can probably craft the item themselves anyway), then it's really only affordable by buying gil.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Actually, it does... a lot of the time. The problem is that crafters set their prices ridiculously high, to the point that unless the buyer is also a crafter who has a huge amount of gil (which means they can probably craft the item themselves anyway), then it's really only affordable by buying gil.

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Price is directly related to to how annoying it is to be able to craft the item (including leveling and gearing), generate materia and then overmeld the materia to make the crafted items useful. If there was more competition between crafters, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive.

It's not the crafters' fault. SE designed it this way.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

It's not the crafters' fault. SE designed it this way.

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Actually, the fault is of the crafters that complained on the forums about low prices and too much competition and also of SE for listening to them and ignoring everyone else that was having fun.

Crafting and gathering got progressively worse with the 2.X series of updates. Then Heavensward came along and managed to crank it up another notch.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Price is directly related to to how annoying it is to be able to craft the item (including leveling and gearing), generate materia and then overmeld the materia to make the crafted items useful. If there was more competition between crafters, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive.

It's not the crafters' fault. SE designed it this way.

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I was debating including the counter point to this response in my last post, since I knew it was coming. I should have it looks like lol

Leveling and gearing has and shouldn't have anything to do with your pricing. That's the cost of doing business. It's no different than a non-crafting class needing to level up and gear to get to endgame.

The only things that should influence prices are the cost of your materials. You don't want to sell something at a loss, so you'd have to price it above your mats cost. And much of the time, the prices are still ridiculous. Either because A) they paid too much for the mats (stupidity on the crafter's part) or B) they are simply trying to sell at the same price as the person who paid ridiculous prices for their mats (unadulterated greed).

It's a shame that raiders feel the need to hate on crafters and feel like they should be unrelated. This is an MMO and every MMO I've ever played has had useful crafted battle gear and it had always worked flawlessly.

Don't want Savage Alex to be cleared fast by those in crafted gear? Release an i190 or i195 set a week later or release them anyway and just have them be un-usable in Savage Alex for a week. There's so many ways to make this work that anyone can think of a solution.

And Grade V materia is practically useless since it cannot be obtained from spiritbonding. Square actually said a better way to obtain Grade V materia is coming, it's even in the 3.0 notes. However why it's not here yet is a mystery. It's not like they haven't finished developing Grade V materia. It's such a small feature so it's clearly ready yet it feels like it's not going to be available until 3.1.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Why do crafters need to feel important to endgame raiders? I really cannot understand this. I don't want to have to depend on crafters, and now that we are finally in this situation of not needing them and their nice prices, so much crafter qq. Can't u be happy making housing items and glamour prisms?

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LOL. Raiding is practically its own mini-game now that is complete independent from everything else ... just the ways raiders like it. (God forbid that they are made to do anything "mandatory" that isn't raiding.)

Is this the direction the game is going? Is YoshiP going to bend over for raiders like Blizzard? Funny he can say that the MMO genre is dying when it was he who chose to clone a dying game.

And the prices are extremely high. I wasn't pay attention back when ARR launched, I bought little on the MB and sold nothing there, but when I came back earlier this year most things were with in reach. Everything since HW launched is 1k for mats, or 500+k for full items. The rarer the mats the many more Millions are added to it.

This situation is dangerous as it will bring the gill buyers/sellers out in force.

>> Of course I don't help. I've been selling and crafting things to be sold in those numbers too. oO While I'm not safely to where I can afford a house maybe two amounts of gil, the situation itself hasn't quite returned to Pre-HW levels. (sigh.. when Artisan and forager gear was 200k-300k... or 1mil penta-melded.)

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

What encourages gilbuying is having in-game things cost a lot of gil. So the current situation with crafting (and housing whenever new plots open up) does encourage gilbuying.

If there were no high prices, there would be no reason to buy gil.

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And gil would also be pointless, great game design that is.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Leveling and gearing has and shouldn't have anything to do with your pricing. That's the cost of doing business. It's no different than a non-crafting class needing to level up and gear to get to endgame. etc, etc, etc

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But competition DOES influence pricing. If there are only a few crafters that bothered to get to the point where they can actually make the item in question, they're free to set prices at whatever they feel like.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

And gil would also be pointless, great game design that is.

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Oh yeah, it's so much better to have all the crap that has been added to drive up prices on the MB than having gil be "pointless".

/sarcasm

Crafting and Gathering used to be something fun that most players could enjoy while waiting for DF to pop. Now it's an endless gilgrind plagued by limited availability of materials and content lockouts. All this designed to push away players from crafting/gathering so we can have our inflated economy that serves a very small percentage of players to the detriment of everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

But competition DOES influence pricing. If there are only a few crafters that bothered to get to the point where they can actually make the item in question, they're free to set prices at whatever they feel like.

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Which is pure, unadulterated greed, and encourages gil buying.

An intelligent business sets prices at reasonable levels. Even monopolies (which is essentially what you are describing) set reasonable prices. DeBeers has a monopoly on diamonds, and they could set prices at "whatever they feel like" (and they do), but they realize (like the intelligent people they are) that if they set them too high, that nobody would buy them because they simply couldn't afford them.

Unfortunately, a lot of greedy crafters don't have that level of intellect. Or they do, and they are actually relying on people buying gil (sometimes because they sell the gil they get to RMT companies).

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

It's a shame that raiders feel the need to hate on crafters and feel like they should be unrelated. This is an MMO and every MMO I've ever played had had useful crafted battle gear and it had always worked flawlessly.

Don't want Savage Alex to be cleared fast by those in crafted gear? Release an i190 or i195 set a week later or release them anyway and just have them be un-usable in Savage Alex for a week. There's so many ways to make this work that anyone can think of a solution.

And Grade V materia is practically useless since it cannot be obtained from spiritbonding. Square actually said a better way to obtain Grade V materia is coming, it's even in the 3.0 notes. However why it's not here yet is a mystery. It's not like they haven't finished developing Grade V material and how to obtain it. It's such a small feature so it's clearly ready yet it feels like it's not going to be available until 3.1.

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I really wish there was a way for crafting to have some end game purpose beyond potions, food and accessories for a single role.

Maybe allow crafters to create items that allow you (with materia) to configure your secondary skills on any end game item. Kind of like the scrolls used for the relic weapon. It's not something so powerful that it would be required for end game raids (as the primary stats are fixed), but it's good enough to be desirable.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Which is pure, unadulterated greed, and encourages gil buying.

An intelligent business sets prices at reasonable levels. Even monopolies (which is essentially what you are describing) set reasonable prices. DeBeers has a monopoly on diamonds, and they could set prices at "whatever they feel like" (and they do), but they realize (like the intelligent people they are) that if they set them too high, that nobody would buy them because they simply couldn't afford them.

Unfortunately, a lot of greedy crafters don't have that level of intellect. Or they do, and they are actually relying on people buying gil (sometimes because they sell the gil they get to RMT companies).

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And additional competition wouldn't mitigate this?

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Why do crafters need to feel important to endgame raiders? I really cannot understand this. I don't want to have to depend on crafters, and now that we are finally in this situation of not needing them and their nice prices, so much crafter qq. Can't u be happy making housing items and glamour prisms?

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Troll will be troll, yes crafting should have zero to do with raiding, lol. That's the answer!



OP, of course you are right. SE failed miserably to strike a good balance and anyone who enjoys crafting is paying for it. Honestly, these developers just seem to find maintaining a good balance between crafting and raiding extraordinarily difficult.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Penta-melded 150 accessories are great for ALL tanks in progression, not just WAR.

Sure, there's situations where an MT may need more VIT, but having that set is godly for when you don't

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Five 150 accessories vs five 200 VIT accessories means 155 STR vs 75 VIT.

75 VIT comes out to just over 1500 HP. That is nothing compared to 155 STR. And it doesn't take penta-melding, those secondary stats are nothing in comparison. STR accessories, VIT V, and VIT IV x2.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

And additional competition wouldn't mitigate this?

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What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Which is pure, unadulterated greed, and encourages gil buying.

An intelligent business sets prices at reasonable levels. Even monopolies (which is essentially what you are describing) set reasonable prices. DeBeers has a monopoly on diamonds, and they could set prices at "whatever they feel like" (and they do), but they realize (like the intelligent people they are) that if they set them too high, that nobody would buy them because they simply couldn't afford them.

Unfortunately, a lot of greedy crafters don't have that level of intellect. Or they do, and they are actually relying on people buying gil (sometimes because they sell the gil they get to RMT companies).

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This guy, lmao.. This guy just used DIAMONDS as an example of reasonable pricing via monopolies?

WAHAHAHA!

Ok, the nonsense has now reached an intolerable level.
Crafting in HW makes more sense than this, lmao

"Monopolies are reasonable! Just look at diamonds."

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Which is pure, unadulterated greed, and encourages gil buying.

An intelligent business sets prices at reasonable levels. Even monopolies (which is essentially what you are describing) set reasonable prices. DeBeers has a monopoly on diamonds, and they could set prices at "whatever they feel like" (and they do), ...

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Companies sell at the price that maximises profit. To think otherwise is naive.

It's competition that pushes prices down. Monopolies literally charge what the market will bare - maximising (number of units * profit per unit).

A part from monopolies, the only other time when competition is restricted is when all producers cooperate to fix prices. But with 1000s of crafters per server, you have got to be delusional to think thats even remotely possible.

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Originally Posted by Kiyyto

"Monopolies are reasonable! Just look at diamonds."

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You might want to try reading again. I said that a real life monopoly (DeBeers) is MORE reasonable than the pricing in this game. While monopolies are illegal for a reason (hence why DeBeers operates where they are not), it's to illustrate that some of the crafters in this game are even worse.

DeBeers at least prices their goods at an affordable level (if still high and borderline unreasonable). Many crafters in FF price at outrageously not affordable levels... which encourages gil buying.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Five 150 accessories vs five 200 VIT accessories means 155 STR vs 75 VIT.

75 VIT comes out to just over 1500 HP. That is nothing compared to 155 STR. And it doesn't take penta-melding, those secondary stats are nothing in comparison. STR accessories, VIT V, and VIT IV x2.

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I have two Slaying, 3 Fending. Still need to get a STR 3 in one (none on MB :( ) and I'm still going to penta my two slaying acc (prob add Crit cause my Fell Cleave just outright refuses to crit)

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

Companies sell at the price that maximises profit. To think otherwise is naive.

It's competition that pushes prices down. Monopolies literally charge what the market will bare - maximising (number of units * profit per unit).

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This is precisely what I just said. The issue is that some crafters in FF price BEYOND bearable levels... thus encouraging gil buying. And as I said, in many cases those same crafters actually go and sell that gil back to the RMT companies.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

This is precisely what I just said. The issue is that some crafters in FF price BEYOND bearable levels... thus encouraging gil buying. And as I said, in many cases those same crafters actually go and sell that gil back to the RMT companies.

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If you read the rest of the post, I'm explained why that isn't possible.

Collusion isn't possible. Not with no mechanism to enforce the cartel and the relatively low barriers of entry. The fact that all tradeable items in FFXIV are commodities makes it even worse.

You might want to try reading... At all?
You just tried to correct me for writing exactly what you've written, twice

L
M
A
O

I'm sorry but you know nothing about diamonds, monopolies, or possibly crafting (if you think the diamond cartel is more reasonable than Ffxiv crafting)

But Ty for the giggles.