IF ya got money

....... Just sit this nonsense out .... make money off the things that turnover fast; and don't require materials that have been jacked up..... and take it easy. Let this system blow up because I am looking at this entire process now and there is absolutely no reason to craft anything. That's right........ relax and let go, yea we enjoyed crafting........ SE just took that away from us , and it won't change if people go through the absurd never ending process....... I'm gonna sit back and relax, not spend money into the system anymore and soon...... those developers are going to see the massive mistake they just made..... this is flatout unworkable.... and if an SE Developer, is nervous about their new system and reading this, hey..... give me one good reason to do any crafting? Level your gatherers up another 10 levels if ya have em, or 60 if ya dont........ don't spend millions on stones and flowers to get 1/3rd of a recipe. Just see that it won't ever work.

You have made half a dozen threads whining about this and all containing the same hyperbole, melodrama and click baiting. Grow up already and stop acting like a petulant child. I'm all for actual reasonable and rational debate but at this stage all your really offering is click bait format threads filled with whining and ranting while making crap up to suit your agenda. The sort of nonsense I already responded to in your other click bait style whining and ranting thread.

If you do not want to craft anymore or do not personally see the benefit then feel free to stop crafting, I can assure you most people will continue to craft and many will continue to enjoy it even if you do not. SE may make some minor adjustments over time in regards to caps and cost of materials, they will also over time add more recipes...all these things they would do anyways as they always have but if you believe for one second in your own propaganda then maybe crafting isn't for you anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

You have made half a dozen threads whining about this and all containing the same hyperbole, melodrama and click baiting. Grow up already and stop acting like a petulant child.

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Dear 'Snugglebutt" ....... I am 32 years old, and you seem really angry. Go pick whatever poison you are into and use it to calm down. Or take your medication.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimaS

I am 32 years old...

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...and yet you act like a five year old throwing his toys out the pram. Your not adding much to discussions about crafting at this stage, your just making click bait style thread titles filled with melodrama, hyperbole and propaganda.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

You have made half a dozen threads whining about this and all containing the same hyperbole, melodrama and click baiting. Grow up already and stop acting like a petulant child.

but if you believe for one second in your own propaganda then maybe crafting isn't for you anymore.

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Have you any idea what just happened? Every crafter I know of , not to mention not a positive post here..... they don't like this.. I posted a suggestion so everyone either take that suggestion or don't. look at the big picture here and the amount of time they expect put in (not to mention money) and say "Can this work?" later...

I'll still sell those ooids to u for 498k. U'll be saving 1k since my last offer lol jk

What if se said this is their final decision and are not going to change the way it is. What will u do then? Make 100 more threads? Or u can just quit and take a break from crafting and do other things like u mentioned.

Ur obviously mad about this insane grind and so am i, but im trying to make the best out of it as there is no other way to obtain those materials atm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

I'll still sell those ooids to u for 498k. U'll be saving 1k since my last offer lol jk

What if se said this is their final decision and are not going to change the way it is. What will u do then? Make 100 more threads? Or u can just quit and take a break from crafting and do other things like u mentioned.

Ur obviously mad about this insane grind and so am i, but im trying to make the best out of it as there is no other way to obtain those materials atm.

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I just did. I'm done i just posted this cause the system itself....... there is no end game (can anyone tell me why we should all do this? LOL)

. It's just a grind for gear that is also craftable with red scrips and ooids and plants guarding the ingredients.... btw, I believe crafters can make the offhands and rings (the things not on the vendor list.) Hey if you don't like it sell that stuff off and quit too.

Please dont craft anything, I am just earning only about 5mio per day from crafting, please stop crafting its not worthy for you. Also you can unsubscribe from game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LunnaRavenheart

Please dont craft anything, I am just earning only about 5mio per day from crafting, please stop crafting its not worthy for you. Also you can unsubscribe from game.

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As a regular to these subforums I would like to thank you for your valuable input in regards to this topic.

No problem! Anytime, dude.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimaS

I just did. I'm done i just posted this cause the system itself....... there is no end game (can anyone tell me why we should all do this? LOL)

. It's just a grind for gear that is also craftable with red scrips and ooids and plants guarding the ingredients.... btw, I believe crafters can make the offhands and rings (the things not on the vendor list.) Hey if you don't like it sell that stuff off and quit too.

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Dont let the common trolls on forums fool you pretty much EVERY crafter a know and have talked to ingame is retiring from crafting or taking a break from xiv because of these changes.

So if people decide to stop leveling up crafting and people don't start crafting due to whatever changes SE made, does that mean people like me who still enjoy crafting will make more money?

Yay!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LunnaRavenheart

Please dont craft anything, I am just earning only about 5mio per day from crafting, please stop crafting its not worthy for you. Also you can unsubscribe from game.

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And what does all that gil get you? Nothing. It's all pointless numbers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goob

So if people decide to stop leveling up crafting and people don't start crafting due to whatever changes SE made, does that mean people like me who still enjoy crafting will make more money?

Yay!

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1. You'll never make money with 2 stars.
2. You'll never enjoy the process of making 2 stars.

The only thing left to enjoy are old recipes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goob

So if people decide to stop leveling up crafting and people don't start crafting due to whatever changes SE made, does that mean people like me who still enjoy crafting will make more money?

Yay!

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maybe if you ever lvled your crafting classes past 40 :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radial

Dont let the common trolls on forums fool you pretty much EVERY crafter a know and have talked to ingame is retiring from crafting or taking a break from xiv because of these changes.

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If anything I would say the opposite and not to let the common trolls like himself spamming crafting hate threads filled with hyperbolic nonsense fool others. On your other point every crafter I know in game is still crafting as normal, additionally more people I know have started crafting not less too. I guess every crafter I know in game is more intelligent and capable of taking a step back, rationalize the changes and have a firmer grasp on the realities of crafting and the impact of those changes...combined with the common sense understanding that caps will slowly be raised, material costs will drop as always and new recipes will also get added over time instead of falling prey to the melodramatic bullshit spread on here by around by some individuals.

In the meantime the ones I know continue to make vast amounts of gil from crafting, making even more from gathering and selling to the increased amount of people crafting now and they enjoy it still despite the added complexity/depth to the classes. Thankfully SE are not generally inclined to fall victim to the extreme dramatization tactics some people here are using in their arguments, their threads and their posts and they will just make 'minor' changes to the system as they always have when new content/systems come out/get added to the game post-release. SE will more than likely keep an eye on the in game activities of players and listening more to the rational and reasonable comments on the system rather than the hyperbolic and melodramatic nonsense some people are spewing forth on here.

Animas is right. Most of the high level crafters on Leviathan, including myself, are just going to wait this out until there's some changes. We're collecting our red scrips every week, and just sitting on them. Ooloids are selling for 1 million+ currently, and there's absolutely no reason to craft any of this stuff. Just sit on your red scrips for a bit and keep selling the other stuff. I'm not going to waste money and time buying into a system with no reward at the end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

In the meantime the ones I know continue to make vast amounts of gil from crafting, making even more from gathering and selling to the increased amount of people crafting now and they enjoy it still despite the added complexity/depth to the classes.

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What added depth/complexity are you referring to exactly? Adding wait timers and more restrictions is not adding depth to anything. Which is a shame, because with the baseline created before 3.0, SE could have used the expansion to further evolve a system that was already more impressive than most MMOs. Things like FC crafting should have done that...but that system was nothing like the hype made it sound. And now low to mid level crafters are stuck with a system that takes control of one's progression mostly out of their hands.

And yeah, there are a lot of people crafting right now. It's almost like people's level caps were raised by 10 levels a month ago. Doesn't mean they will carry on past 60.

And sure you can make a lot of money...but what can you use it on? Also...this may come as a shock...not everyone crafts for the money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimaS

Dear 'Snugglebutt" ....... I am 32 years old, and you seem really angry. Go pick whatever poison you are into and use it to calm down. Or take your medication.

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after checking snugglebutts characters in lodestone, I'm not entirely sure he's not just trolling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cearka

after checking snugglebutts characters in lodestone, I'm not entirely sure he's not just trolling.

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...Fair point...

Still, there's 5 people in my FC who have most of their crafters at 58+, and both MIN/BTN at 60 w/ gear. 2 of them were dedicated 4 Star Omnicrafters by the end of 2.5. They all say the same thing, they'll gradually get everything up to 60, get HQ cross-class gear, probably meld the guaranteed slots, maybe do 1-2 cheap overmelds to make the current recipes easier to HQ from NQ, and thats it.
Beyond that they all say that they dont have time for Red Scrips.

They are not super rich, I think the richest one we have has 18M. But they, we, never really had to be. We're primarily raiders, and we work during the day. For the most part we craft raid supplies, the occasional set of leveling gear, and for fun, not for money.
Now the fun aspect of it is kind of gone, which is a shame. So we will continue to get our crafters to 60, I've got 3 at 60 atm and MIN, so Im behind the curve, and we will make sub 60 foods, and the old X-pots, and life will go on.

Its not like these changes to crafting progression ruined the game for us, but it is a bit sad that "worthwhile" crafting progression ends shortly after you hit 60. I am sure that soon SE will introduce new foods and pots and so forth that will magically be "required" for raiding and will be 3 star recipes demanding full Red Scrip gear in order to make crafting "relevant again"... but we'll make it through somehow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cearka

after checking snugglebutts characters in lodestone, I'm not entirely sure he's not just trolling.

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...and you would be wrong. Just because my characters on this account are still in the process of grinding levels does not mean I am incapable of listening to my friends who are doing it, reading how it works and understanding the system or unlike some here whom lack common sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

...and you would be wrong. Just because my characters on this account are still in the process of grinding levels does not mean I am incapable of listening to my friends who are doing it, reading how it works and understanding the system or unlike some here whom lack common sense.

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for all to see, here is the troll who has no crafts leveled posting this nonsense cheerleading for the scrip system;
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1513237/

here is me:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/8074011/ (btw these melds can be copied by all to surpass requirements for 2 star)


I rest my case that this person is merely blathering whatever comes to mind (akin to either a pathologically lying narcissist or, a person doing this for their own amusement aka 'troll')

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimaS

for all to see, here is the troll who has no crafts leveled posting this nonsense cheerleading for the scrip system;
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1513237/

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Yet again you show your lack of common sense. You link my bard when I have multiple characters and my bard is not my crafter. Your lack of attention to detail and your apparent incompetence is really showing. It is either incompetence or your just continuing your trend of spreading misinformation in order to progress your propaganda just like you have with half the things you have said on the topic. You use fallacies and hyperbole in order to promote your beliefs and your stance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Yet again you show your lack of common sense. You link my bard when I have multiple characters and my bard is not my crafter. Your lack of attention to detail and your apparent incompetence is really showing. It is either incompetence or your just continuing your trend of spreading misinformation in order to progress your propaganda just like you have with half the things you have said on the topic. You use fallacies and hyperbole in order to promote your beliefs and your stance on this topic.

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I think his point is still pretty valid though
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1514966/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez

I think his point is still pretty valid though
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1514966/

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It is no more valid than assuming a person cannot place a square peg in a square slot just because he or she might not have yet put it in. Intelligence and understanding of something is not limited to experience so while I have partial experience in that mine are yet to reach 60, do not assume for one second that I am neither intelligent enough to understand how it works or wise enough to understand the implications. My main issue with the OP and most of the things he says are not limited to the fact he has issues with it but more so in how he is expressing his feelings on those issues through his click bait titles, extreme melodrama and hyperbole plus logical fallacies. Here is an example of a well thought out, reasonable and logical criticism of the system that I read today of which he could do well to learn from as a way of expressing his concerns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

It is no more valid than assuming a person cannot place a square peg in a square slot just because he or she might not have yet put it in. Intelligence and understanding of something is not limited to experience so while I have partial experience in that mine are yet to reach 60, do not assume for one second that I am neither intelligent enough to understand how it works.

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I did not bring your intelligence into question only that he is right in that you have not actually experienced the system in regards to crafting.
You haven't earned blue scripts and you haven't unlocked the ability to earn red scripts, I spent the whole day handing in frozen spirits just to earn my books because it has been such a pain to turn anything else in all week due to the mat requirements; it was neither fun nor rewarding.
Just because something is fine on paper doesn't mean its fine in practice.

But I'm not here to argue with you.

My opinion is the script reward is too low for the mat costs and unless they increase it or add some kind of daily bonus it only benefits those with large amounts of time and gil to amass a stock pile of mats, and screws over the guys who don't have as much time to run around grabbing 15 adamantite ore every time its up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez

My opinion is the script reward is too low for the mat costs and unless they increase it or add some kind of daily bonus it only benefits those with large amounts of time and gil to amass a stock pile of mats, and screws over the guys who don't have as much time to run around grabbing 15 adamantite ore every time its up.

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I have never said the system was fine or not in need of some fixing and is not the main issue I have with the OP and his spamming of click bait style hate threads of which I explained earlier.

For example I agree that the cap is a little too low, the cost of materials bought from scripts is a little too high. Certain skills need improving in their importance and use, some stats need further balancing alongside some very minor tweaks to things like favors etc. The price of script gained materials placed on the market board will however balance itself out. All these things are minor and none of them warrant the waving of the end is nigh banner brigade currently infesting these forums. I even gave an example of someone expressing their concerns the right way in my previous post link.

One of the major difference of opinion between myself and some others will come from people who think crafters should be able to craft BiS DoW/DoM gear of which I do not agree and neither did a hell of a lot of people prior to 3.0. Those against it back then put forth reasonable and valid reasons for their stance and I agreed with it. SE also agreed with those people and changed it so now those who disagreed with those other people are whining about that change. If SE changed it back then those who were against crafted BiS gear would then take the place of those whining only this time about the change back.

I am also highly in favor of the specialization system and want it further expanded upon even at the cost of omni-crafting. The difference between me and the OP despite both having certain concerns about the system is unlike him I am not acting like a petulant child in expressing them, I am not using extreme hyperbole and fallacies to back up my concerns.

Just to reiterate. Snugglebutt is very much the minority here. No matter how loud he talks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alwaysatodds

Just to reiterate. Snugglebutt is very much the minority here. No matter how loud he talks.

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Feel free to keep grasping at straws in your attempt to silence someone of an opposing position. First the attempt to dismiss via linking my (wrong) character to which I responded to already and now the old fashioned minority/majority or silent majority/vocal minority form of argument. All we need now is some Hitler references or irrelevant and flawed real life comparisons followed by some insulting memes directed at your opposition then this thread will have run the traditional full circle of internet argumentation. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alwaysatodds

Just to reiterate. Snugglebutt is very much the minority here. No matter how loud he talks.

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yeah i actually havent met anyone that likes the new system at all here on goblin. I'm currently in the process of leveling up my miner/botanist to 60 for goldsmith, cooking and alchemist. now im wondering if its worth the time :/

Leveling those gathering classes is quite quick, just do it and be done with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Feel free to keep grasping at straws in your attempt to silence someone of an opposing position. First the attempt to dismiss via linking my (wrong) character to which I responded to already and now the old fashioned minority/majority or silent majority/vocal minority form of argument. All we need now is some Hitler references or irrelevant and flawed real life comparisons followed by some insulting memes directed at your opposition then this thread will have run the traditional full circle of internet argumentation. :p

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DO YOU CRAFT WITH 8 CLASSES OR NOT, that is a simple question. You like loaded questions and i may have typed fast and not so eloquently earlier but if you wana get into it, first answer the above?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Intelligence and understanding of something is not limited to experience so while I have partial experience in that mine are yet to reach 60, do not assume for one second that I am neither intelligent enough to understand how it works or wise enough to understand the implications. My main issue with the OP and most of the things he says are not limited to the fact he has issues with it but more so in how he is expressing his feelings on those issues through his click bait titles, extreme melodrama and hyperbole plus logical fallacies.

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You really have no place criticizing how other people choose to express their opinions when most of your contributions have included personal attacks. What value is there in insulting people about their intelligence...which you have frequently done across multiple threads...in trying to prove your point.

For balance I will throw in my support for snugglebutt because I see most people speaking against them. Conversation is a little too heated here, but he/she is very good at reasoning and I agree we don't need to be so hyperbolic about the state of crafting. I see good and bad things in the new system. Forum response has been highly negative, but in-game I see people enjoying it. I have a crafter friend who actually loves the steep grind because she wanted a more meaty endgame progression for craft and gather.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimaS

DO YOU CRAFT WITH 8 CLASSES OR NOT, that is a simple question. You like loaded questions and i may have typed fast and not so eloquently earlier but if you wana get into it, first answer the above?

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Yes I do, all of them including all three gathering classes. However I look forward to branching into specializations, especially safe in the knowledge that in time SE will expand upon specializations in terms of quantity of recipes and the role specialist will play long term as far as cooperation and sharing burdens with friends in overcoming any shortfalls on one or more of my own classes. The ones I choose not to specialize in will still have many uses and I have no problems with there existing a cap on how much of the highest rank crafted items can make per week since when not making those I am more than happy to continue crafting other things even if I do believe the cap should be raised slightly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I see good and bad things in the new system. Forum response has been highly negative, but in-game I see people enjoying it. I have a crafter friend who actually loves the steep grind because she wanted a more meaty endgame progression for craft and gather.

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That has been the same experience I have had with all my crafting friends in game including those already capped on most of their crafting classes and grinding the new systems. They like me may think some things need fixing, minor things mostly but they are still enjoying it. The combination of new node types and systems adds depth in my opinion despite potentially some minor balancing issues being required in the long run which I am sure SE will address. In the meantime while I wait for some of those balancing issues to be resolved there is plenty of fun to be had still.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Yes I do, all of them.

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Link it or you have absolutely no credibility here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimaS

Link it or you have absolutely no credibility here.

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If look at the previous page after you posted the wrong character PotatoWafflez posted the right one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

If look at the previous page after you posted the wrong character PotatoWafflez posted the right one.

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this http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...268.1423976722


HOPE NOT...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

For balance I will throw in my support for snugglebutt because I see most people speaking against them. Conversation is a little too heated here, but he/she is very good at reasoning and I agree we don't need to be so hyperbolic about the state of crafting. I see good and bad things in the new system. Forum response has been highly negative, but in-game I see people enjoying it. I have a crafter friend who actually loves the steep grind because she wanted a more meaty endgame progression for craft and gather.

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See...I'd have no issue with Snugglebutt's opinion if I didn't so frequently see unnecessary personal attacks across so many threads. The conversation is getting heated partly because Snugglebutt is fanning the flames with pointless attitude.

As for your friend, I would ask how dedicated...and to a lesser extent, how wealthy...a crafter they are. If they're fairly well off already, it may explain their opinion. Those with a big network or a large sum of guild probably won't flinch as much at this system. It's everyone else many are concerned with with regards to this new system. Those just starting out, or those not as well equiped financially/network-wise/etc, are in for a long, hard grind that may not even pay off in the end. Again, those who are already well established don't have to worry too much about the risks. Some, however, are starting to feel like they no longer have a place in the crafting meta-game.

Note: My response isn't to try to attack/invalidate your friend's opinion, just to better understand where there stance may be coming from.