The Future of Crafting

Someone probably already thought about this but I thought it would be nice to re-emphasize the concept in case it was missed:

Currently, the way that Crafters rank/level up is Archaic. Here is a solution SE could implement and various benefits that would be gained from it:

- Make Leve Quests a prime method of leveling Crafting by removing restrictions on how many leves Crafters can do. Adjust the rewards gained from leve quest adequately if needed.

- Increase available Guild Mark abilities to give crafters more to work for. Make abilities a more viable requirement in item creation.

This helps in several ways:

- Decreases required inventory spaces needed to support craft leveling.
- Is a viable method to make Gil besides relying on the market ward.
- Distances crafters from the Archaic "WASTE A MILLION MATS" to level system.

They need to seriously revamp leve rewards anyway. I have about 10 stacks of bronze nuggets and 7 of iron from leve rewards. As it is I vendor most of my tin ore.

And from the proposed changes they've announced already crafters won't need any of the guildmark skills, atleast until they decide on a new use for them.

As for making gil from leves... if anything they need to greatly tone down the amount of gil available from leve rewards. There is a stupid amount of gil in circulation because of leve rewards, and the more they add the less valuable it becomes.

That being said I completely agree that they should make changes to how we achieve rank.

I have alot of hope for the announced Grand Company supply and replenishment quests that are supposed to come out in 1.19.

I've never thought leve rewards give too much gil, certainly not crafting ones... Back in the day you could get 40k-80k from ONE battlecraft leve. Rank 40+ crafting leves seem to average around 4-5k, seems reasonable to me.

By yielding to the "popular outcry" on forum, SE decided to make your Retainer the only way to Gather and your Companion the only Crafter. Oh and there will be fully voiced crafting sequence!

Granted that crafting leves aren't as bad as battle leves, but leves in general still give too much gil.

When the game came out, I hated the battle system so much I prefered crafting to it.

Now it's the other way around. I don't want to put myself through the hell of leveling up the crafts because of recipes/mat sink. Although I understand recipes are a bit simpler now, I am just turned off to the idea currently.

They aren't simpler yet... and nothing they've said suggests any alleviation to the horrible mat sync.

:) Leves will eliminate the need to retain so many useless mats that Crafters horde to rank up. Seems like a win win situation for the entire Crafting aspect of the game.

I'd like to see leves offer something other than gil... a credit that can only be used on consumable items like those crafting skill scrolls or maybe dark matter or crystals/shards. My biggest beef with leves is that they create a glut of resources.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

I'd like to see leves offer something other than gil... a credit that can only be used on consumable items like those crafting skill scrolls or maybe dark matter or crystals/shards. My biggest beef with leves is that they create a glut of resources.

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Is that not better than not having to retain retainers full of rank-up mats? I agree that leve rewards need to be better. But I am mainly stating that, besides the rewards, the actual ranking up process of Crafting should be dependent on Leves as a source of grinding. It would save players from cluttering their inventory with a bunch of mats :)

My fear though is that if they increase the limit on crafting leves they will be pressured to do the same for battlecraft leves... and I am not in favor of that with leves in their current form.

Giving players infinite materials to rank up crafting would destroy the economy, and that is what you are suggesting by making localleves infinite and everlasting.

In my opinion, they should alter the progression-system for crafting classes by giving crafters quests to help them level.

Also:

-They could imlpement more class quests that give SP
-They could implement player-run quests (players put in an order and crafters create)
-They could implement Player-Run companies and have crafters build component for ships/houses
-They could implement some kind of Beseiged feature and crafters could help fortify the barricades etc.

There's lots they could do to make progression less grindy.

There is a lot they could do to crafting besides just flat-out removing parts, oversimplifying recipes, and diminishing the crafting as a whole.

By the looks of things, crafting doesn't even have a future.

i cant believe im gonna agree with the above troll who is probly gifthorse...


but this entire idea is horrible, sounds like somone who wants to level all their crafts for free with infinite mats and not have to gather them at all

its basicaly like handing people free 50s

Seriously, horse why are you always trolling all over the forums? Dont you have anything better to do than mock someones opinon that very well may influence the community in a postive way. I personally think AJs idea is fantastic. There is a issue with inventory space, and im sure no one can really dispute that. Ohh, and put stuff on my retainer sure why not! No thanks i rather have free inventory space on me personally, and also my retainer should have items that i intend to sell from me crafting. Not holding mats i may not use for x amount of time. I think you need to think about this logically before you judge the OP's post. I think this would be great for the game's future. Please yoshi, take this idea into consideration, or please can we get a response in regards to a method simliar to this to influence the game in a great way. Also, on a sidenote the less inventory space needed, would help the server/client issue. Not as many items to send/recieve would help i would think. That is just my 2cents. I hope to hear something about this. /flame shield on. Troll me all you want, if your that bored.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Seriously, horse why are you always trolling all over the forums? Dont you have anything better to do than mock someones opinon that very well may influence the community in a postive way. I personally think AJs idea is fantastic. There is a issue with inventory space, and im sure no one can really dispute that. Ohh, and put stuff on my retainer sure why not! No thanks i rather have free inventory space on me personally, and also my retainer should have items that i intend to sell from me crafting. Not holding mats i may not use for x amount of time. I think you need to think about this logically before you judge the OP's post. I think this would be great for the game's future. Please yoshi, take this idea into consideration, or please can we get a response in regards to a method simliar to this to influence the game in a great way. Also, on a sidenote the less inventory space needed, would help the server/client issue. Not as many items to send/recieve would help i would think. That is just my 2cents. I hope to hear something about this. /flame shield on. Troll me all you want, if your that bored.

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Are you talking to me?

Well, whoever you were addressing, I think you have to follow the decision to its logical conclusion before saying it's oh-so-amazing. Realise that if localleves were an infinite source of SP, then a consequence of this would be that nobody would buy grinding mats anymore, forcing gatherers into an even more obsolete position than they are already in. DoW would also have less generated-income from no longer being able to sell mats. From an economical standpoint, this would only serve to generate no market for any goods.

Is this really what you want? An MMO with no economy? An MMO that just gives you everything in the most convenient way possible?

Also, it would still not make crafting any more enjoyable than it is. It would just make it less expensive.

And surely the easiest solution to inventory issues is... wait for it... increasing inventory space.

Mutilating this game beyond any recognition is a pretty extravagant "solution" to a simple problem, if it is even a problem at all.

Like i said your trolling. I dont need to further make my point. However i will make it short and sweet. Having less inventory affects the game over all. Also, how does making infinite leves breaking the economy exactly? So if i go gather the mats, and make the craft that affects the economy how? DOL will not suffer, hmmm "Materia system" Ring a bell genius? There wouldnt be a problem for DOL to gather the mats still to make the crafts, and get the catylst stones for the crafters to instill that materia. I guess you forgot about where the game is headed. Umm, and again how exactly is someone that chooses to do leves over and over, any different than getting the said mats, and grinding on them until they are broke, and out of the mats they needed to conintue in there said profession. Ohh, wait DOW+DOM dont share this problem do they? They can get sp soon to be "Levels". Anytime, outside of the regional leves they do. Guess what it doesnt cost them any gil to progress does it? The price is the decay of your armor, and if you have a strong LS like i do, personally you can fix any piece of gear your wearing. Also, if his idea was to be implemented it would alliviate people from having to carry said about of mats on them at one time. It wouldnt eliminate any classes value as your suggesting it would. I think it would offer a more logical approah to the crafting system that is currently in place, and rather broken. I guess you can troll me on that too, however your not going to win the debate due to the fact i gave enough "logical" reasons for said situations. Ohh, and if i forgot any of them, please feel free to troll and correct me. With that said, happy gaming.

P.S. You got owned!

i just start crafting almost month ago ~ maybe my calculation make it easy to raise my craft by using mining field leves to get some matz that i use in Goldsmith/armorer/blacksmith but suddenly i realize that i need high amount of shards .. so i have force to raise my fishing/alchemist .. which take alot of time away from doing my armor/blacksmith that what i thought i should do at start.

problem i face is Always i vender items that i realize i might have use in future .. and use every space i got to put matz for ranking ... but seems like harder than i thought. and i used to do leve only for free material ranking/guildmarks for skills

creating more leves which using your own material but yield more bonus SP? (limit it per days,but stackable in a week duration)

or issuing company leves which objective is repair city's infrastructure (which the result can be seen visually just like Assasin Creed II)

maybe that can help ranking issue post no-part synth

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Like i said your trolling. I dont need to further make my point. However i will make it short and sweet. Having less inventory affects the game over all. Also, how does making infinite leves breaking the economy exactly? So if i go gather the mats, and make the craft that affects the economy how? DOL will not suffer, hmmm "Materia system" Ring a bell genius? There wouldnt be a problem for DOL to gather the mats still to make the crafts, and get the catylst stones for the crafters to instill that materia. I guess you forgot about where the game is headed. Umm, and again how exactly is someone that chooses to do leves over and over, any different than getting the said mats, and grinding on them until they are broke, and out of the mats they needed to conintue in there said profession. Ohh, wait DOW+DOM dont share this problem do they? They can get sp soon to be "Levels". Anytime, outside of the regional leves they do. Guess what it doesnt cost them any gil to progress does it? The price is the decay of your armor, and if you have a strong LS like i do, personally you can fix any piece of gear your wearing. Also, if his idea was to be implemented it would alliviate people from having to carry said about of mats on them at one time. It wouldnt eliminate any classes value as your suggesting it would. I think it would offer a more logical approah to the crafting system that is currently in place, and rather broken. I guess you can troll me on that too, however your not going to win the debate due to the fact i gave enough "logical" reasons for said situations. Ohh, and if i forgot any of them, please feel free to troll and correct me. With that said, happy gaming.

P.S. You got owned!

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Wall of text aside, DoW and DoM are not lucrative professions as are crafting professions. A crafter can make more money than a DoW/DoM and thus should have a higher barrier to progression (cost-wise) than other classes.

Just because people want a free R50 doesnt mean they should have one. Play the game. Stimulate the economy by buying mats. That is how FFXIV should be played.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

Giving players infinite materials to rank up crafting would destroy the economy, and that is what you are suggesting by making localleves infinite and everlasting.

In my opinion, they should alter the progression-system for crafting classes by giving crafters quests to help them level.

Also:

-They could imlpement more class quests that give SP
-They could implement player-run quests (players put in an order and crafters create)
-They could implement Player-Run companies and have crafters build component for ships/houses
-They could implement some kind of Beseiged feature and crafters could help fortify the barricades etc.

There's lots they could do to make progression less grindy.

There is a lot they could do to crafting besides just flat-out removing parts, oversimplifying recipes, and diminishing the crafting as a whole.

By the looks of things, crafting doesn't even have a future.

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troll or not, I do agree with this post, the crafting is dying as the way the game is heading.

SE is adding class only gear that will be better than craft gear (what is the freaking reason to craft if the end game gear cant be sell but to craft and broke to materia ? )

SE add materia the outcome of patch 1.19 will be materia fest

Play as DoH and DoL is very disadvantage in this game:

1. Force to play DoM and DoW to do event (the newest event here is Hunter'moon, you need to KILL the mobs to get reward and why not you need to KILL OR CRAFT A TRAP to catch the mice ?

2. Force to play DoW and DoM IF you want your PERSONAL CHOCOBO from the companies, why do I have to KILL mobs to get reward from quest and why not you need to KILL OR HELP WITH SUPPLY for reward ?

3. The craft recipe are USELESS...well not now but soon. With the current Dungeon gear and NM drop the item are slightly better than the craft gear the HQ might change and balanced this BUT with the coming of CLASS GEAR (I am sure they will be much more better) the result that the endgame crafting gear will be nothing but source for materia.



while let out all that rage, I kno that I ll have to wait, because it is clearly that SE is focus on fix the combat class atm, and when those class are some how decent, they will fix the crafter and gathering class. So...calm down and enjoy what you re doing. Even the craft is horrible and no future atm I am still enjoy to craft, the craft in this game have a taste in to it and not tasteless like other game. Over and out

I figure a better system would be if the crap we grind on all day actually sold. Materia is SE's first stab at that kind of system and I think its worth trying over the OPs suggestion. Not that the OP is awful, I just think other options are better right now.

Off topic: It would be neat if NPCs would resell the stuff we vender to them for the same price. Would make me feel better about all the ore and pelts I've been to lazy to retainer up. Plus I think people would get a kick out of walking up to an NPC with new stuff on it all the time for cheep.

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Originally Posted by Victor

I've never thought leve rewards give too much gil, certainly not crafting ones... Back in the day you could get 40k-80k from ONE battlecraft leve. Rank 40+ crafting leves seem to average around 4-5k, seems reasonable to me.

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And you can't do that anymore either way. Most I've seen recently from battle is about 12k, you could probably bump it up to around 16k if you exchanged the right leves.

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Originally Posted by Commat

I figure a better system would be if the crap we grind on all day actually sold. Materia is SE's first stab at that kind of system and I think its worth trying over the OPs suggestion. Not that the OP is awful, I just think other options are better right now.

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Well I like to think of it this way:

Ideally each adventurer out there playing will be simultaneously wearing down at least 6 pieces of gear to convert into materia. In addition to that, instead of re-selling or handing gear down to others they are more likely to convert it into materia to slot into their next set of gear. I imagine this will be happening with all players at all ranges. This leads to a great need of gear for all ranks and classes which means it will sell more often. Also consider the dye changes, no longer will you need to attempt to sell a piece of gear hoping the color is what people want.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

i cant believe im gonna agree with the above troll

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

why are you always trolling all over the forums?

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Like i said your trolling.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

troll or not,

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Surely to call another a troll, without any cause for doing so, reflects most poorly on one's own character than on the troll in question.

There is no problem with being opinionated but you don't need to be a overly sardonic to do so.

To all those who said this is the "stupidest idea on the forums" you have ever seen:

Please list all the stupid ideas you've seen on the forums so that everyone can determine the truth of your ridiculous accusation. Otherwise stop trolling my thread.

These forums don't need your ridiculous player bashing in order to have a point proven. Quit with the unneeded "you're so stupid for thinking this or that" type caveman smash 'em mentality. When critiquing someone try to at least sound educated and respectable instead of ruining your persona with the jibberish you graffiti on other peoples threads.

To Gifthorse (That's what everyone on the forums is calling you at least):

The purpose of the thread was to encourage brainstorming about abolishing the useless and massive waste of mats for the purpose of Craft leveling.

Whatever ideas are brought up are all as welcomed as any others. I fully realize we as players have only so much pull in the judicial process of SE's FFXIV development. Most of these brainstorming threads are only yet another method of passing time.

The raw truth is that FFXIV Crafting DOES need to be revised and it's current basic mechanics built upon not to a point of over complication but rather more efficiency and productivity.

Crafting, just like EVERY aspect of FFXIV has a future.

Have fun in Eorzea peeps and take care :D

Crafting leves already are the primary method of ranking up crafts. I've took my BSM from 39.5 to 49.5 by doing just leves and a few quests since 1.18 and I've missed a few leve cycles. In that time I took my ARM from 36 to 41 using the remaining leves that my BSM wasn't taking. That is fast and that is free SP. People just want, want, want until eventually the synth window has a rank up button.

I am grinding ARM now because I want it to be 50 in time for 1.19 however there is no reason to ever grind a craft these days with such good leve rewards.

The only change that needs making is the distribution of leves. There's way too many rank 1s and rank 5s that are completely useless and not enough 40, 45 and 50s.

I have done practicaully all my craft leveling through the Levee Quest system and have done so since the Sept release. While the current system is more then sufficient for leveling the biggest problem that I see with this proposal is the imbalance in the number of available meaningful quest for a particular level group. Example when my Armour made level 39 the rank 35 quest yeilded so little in return that it became a waste of time to do them. Conversly I was stuck doing the same 4 synth level 40 quest until I reached level 40. This took me almost 3.5 weeks to do. For tose of you who say I should go to all 3 cities please be advised that I did and only Limsa had a quest. This problem is prevelent through all classes and all levels. If your idea is to be implemented then a major rebalancing needs to occur.
I am unsure of what skills could be added for Guild Mark purchases that would be beneficial to crafters. Guild Mark could be better spent in purchasing basic materials, i.e. Dark Matter, that are not available through gathering.
With the upcoming revisions to recipies the amount of Mats that you will need will be greatly reduced. Levee rewards can be adjusted to reflect these new requirements
As for making Gil we will need to wait till the changes are completed. Gil rewards for levee quests have been reduced, which I agree with. We should be able to make our Gil from selling our own creations. At the moment that is impossible. Hopefully that will change with the new recipies and the final overhaul of the Market Ward system. And no. I am not advocating an AH.

For those who are interested my crafting classes are 48Bsm, 40Arm, 35 Wvr and Gsm, 32Lth and 30 Alc

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

Surely to call another a troll, without any cause for doing so, reflects most poorly on one's own character than on the troll in question.

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and why do you post this thread to start a fight ?, if it is your opinion, then it doesnt matter what ppl call you right ?

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

and why do you post this thread to start a fight ?, if it is your opinion, then it doesnt matter what ppl call you right ?

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Yes, I'm the bad one. Everyone else is perfect.

The leve updates sound like leveling crafts will be a lot nicer since you can focus all your leves on it, and they will reset once you complete or fail a leve so you should be able to get that one high level leve you need =)

"Gifthorse": You're not all that bad, guy, most of the posts of yours I've seen haven't been that bad, some insightful, even. Maybe I haven't read the right ones!

I figure as long as you are making valid, well thought out arguments you aren't trolling... Dragonlord seems to be more the troll in this instance, but that's just speaking from the interaction I've seen in this thread.

Of course on any forum you encounter people who view every differing opinion as a personal attack on themselves... Can't do much but ignore it.

User201109011315, don't worry about the people calling you a horse. Just ignore them.
It seems that whenever someone doesn't like what a person posts on this forum, they're automatically labelled as "gifthorse", someone who used to post here quite a lot.

I Like!d your idea User201109011315.

Well, they had to simplify synthesis recipes. This is just unsustainable: Recipe

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...351#post329351

Thank you SE. Looks like my "stupid" idea was closer to the plan than i thought :3

Eat it haters! YoshiP forever!!!

We knew this was coming.

its one thing to let people accumulate leves, its another entirely to give them an everlasting supply.