Zone Aesthetics

Purely a discussion for gamers...

We talk a lot about zones that are bland and repetitive.
So not talking about polygons or graphics engines....
Its not even a matter of right and wrong... just your personal choice?

Should every region be splendid and gorgeous and expansive and beautiful?

or

Having boring regions feels more natural... AS LONG AS beautiful regions exist also?


For example:
Instead of a zone redesign... what if SE had said,
"The current zones will stay the way they are (in regards to visuals, not MOB placement) and instead, we will just release 5 new zones that look and feel incredible.. that are diverse, with new MOBs and varied terrain and landmarks"

In a way, having bland areas that lead into incredibly diverse areas could be cool...
Perhaps a desert is supposed to be monotonous?

Sometimes a dramatic contrast is used to make the incredible parts stand out.
A dead zone may be ugly but add to the overall dynamic feel of Eorzea...
I don't know... what do you guys think?

I would rather a complete redesign.

The maps are way too big to just call them bland. I would not mind if let's say a sub-zone of the region is bland and monotonous if it serves the game. Like maybe the drybone area in Thanalan could be bland and monotonous, but then since the other sub-zones of Thanalan wouldn't be bland and monotonous, Drybone would feel unique as well in this regard so it would not feel bland after all.

The problem is you can walk 30min in the same zone and yet you feel like you are in the same place you started, this is even more noticable in the Black Shroud.

With the redesign, not everything has to be over the top unique and gorgeous, some zones or new zones could be more or less depending of the design, but have 2-3 different themes per regions like Yoshi-P confirmed will be more than welcomed.

I don't think people are complaining about the feeling of the zones, but the similarity within each zone. They didn't build enough assets for the size of the zones, so it's just constant copy/paste.

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For example:
Instead of a zone redesign... what if SE had said,
"The current zones will stay the way they are (in regards to visuals, not MOB placement) and instead, we will just release 5 new zones that look and feel incredible.. that are diverse, with new MOBs and varied terrain and landmarks"

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This means all the new players would hate what they experience when they see it - because it's what we went through as well.

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Perhaps a desert is supposed to be monotonous?

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I wouldn't really call Thanalan a desert, but yeah a desert is supposed to be monotonous; but that doesn't mean everything looks the same. Everything in the FFXIV zones do look the same, because they are the same. The placement of the environment in the Black Forest, for example goes XLOXLOXLOXLOXLOXLO over and over, and that's what pisses people off; not the sort of subdued aspects of it. When you also consider that there aren't any destinations to go to within the zones, and that there aren't visual sites worth considering within the zones - and that nothing within the zones has meaning - that's where they real problem lies.

The zone redesigns will be a beneficial thing for us, and the base zones do need to be redesigned; particularily Shroud and La Noscea.

Also, this is as good a place as any to say I LOVE the MOB detail in this game.
Yea, a lot of them are cute and far from menacing... but that fits in well with the theme of this thread
the fact that we only fight baby dragons means when we see an actual dragon... we could possibly be blown away, maybe???

It's another contrast... Whats your opinion? would you rather all the MOBs look more ferocious and tough?
I mean.. many do.. Mongrels look mean... Ogre's are very unfriendly...
But there is a lot of cuteness to Eorzea.... Would that be ok if you knew for sure that the big bad mean ones were coming later in new zones?

to answer the mob thing, I think they are fine for now and fits the world we are in. There are meaner looking monsters when you go further and I am positive there will be other models and unique looking monsters in the future.

Close to cities and established encampment, I find it normal that there is not many ferocious/menacing monsters.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

I would rather a complete redesign.

The maps are way too big to just call them bland. I would not mind if let's say a sub-zone of the region is bland and monotonous if it serves the game. Like maybe the drybone area in Thanalan could be bland and monotonous, but then since the other sub-zones of Thanalan wouldn't be bland and monotonous, Drybone would feel unique as well in this regard so it would not feel bland after all.

The problem is you can walk 30min in the same zone and yet you feel like you are in the same place you started, this is even more noticable in the Black Shroud.

With the redesign, not everything has to be over the top unique and gorgeous, some zones or new zones could be more or less depending of the design, but have 2-3 different themes per regions like Yoshi-P confirmed will be more than welcomed.

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Thats a good point... a zone as big as Ul'dah being bland is a bit much
And yea, I saw the thing about 3 themes... I'm looking forward to it...
But you're saying you are ok with one of the 3 themes to match the current feel?
I think I'd like that

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I don't think people are complaining about the feeling of the zones, but the similarity within each zone. They didn't build enough assets for the size of the zones, so it's just constant copy/paste.

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Yea.. I can see that...
So you'd like the feel of each zone as long as they didn't have the exact same ridge repeated over and over?
I think I've seen a few people say they prefer the "over-the-top" fantasy aesthetic to the more subdued beauty of FFXIV....

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

This means all the new players would hate what they experience when they see it - because it's what we went through as well.

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thats funny cause it's true

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

to answer the mob thing, I think they are fine for now and fits the world we are in. There are meaner looking monsters when you go further and I am positive there will be other models and unique looking monsters in the future.

Close to cities and established encampment, I find it normal that there is not many ferocious/menacing monsters.

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I think the Beast tribes and Morbols look incredible... some of the best MOBs I've seen... they make you wanna play on the high settings more so than the environments even....

To any Devs reading this... please get word to whomever put all the detail into the actual MOBs.... tell them I said "WOW" (As an exclamation, not as an acronym for another game...haha)
I don't know if they really that is their biggest graphical feat right now.... I hope they continue with that and play it up even more in the future....
Even Marmots are breathtakingly well done

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Thats a good point... a zone as big as Ul'dah being bland is a bit much
And yea, I saw the thing about 3 themes... I'm looking forward to it...
But you're saying you are ok with one of the 3 themes to match the current feel?
I think I'd like that

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For sure I'd be ok with that, the zones aren't ugly by far, they are just too repetitive for too long. Yes there are some variations but they are too rare and not enough noticable to be called variations, plus the abusive use of copy/pasted huge blocks.

Black Shroud for exemple, sure they can keep an area with the overpasses and all, but them maybe the central shroud it could be more of an open forest, the east shroud more like a clearing. The western part could be those overpasses/mazes thing. Just so we don't feel like we are always in the same place regardless what level you are.

I think they should included same changes to area's during all these patches and beyond not an overhaul all at once but small increments gradually adding uniqueness to each area over time. If one thing they learn from ffxi imo is the copy/paste technique and using it way to much and need to move away from that approach when possible. There were time's when I would see something that caught my eye and said hey what that and head over to be disappointed. There's a sense of no lifeness in my opinion to the areas they need to gradually give npc's/mob some kind of pattern to counter that. But thats my two cent on the supject.

Complete redesign is pretty much required anyways, because the current zones already take you all the way to the cap and beyond. We have level 80 and 90-something monsters in the current zones.

I like the zones the way they are right now. I say just add some more ones.

Honestly i'd rather have small, unique zones. Where every zone has a Final Fantasy feeling to it, a different theme for each zone, etc. I'm sure many of you will agree with me here.

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Originally Posted by odintius

I think they should included same changes to area's during all these patches and beyond not an overhaul all at once but small increments gradually adding uniqueness to each area over time. If one thing they learn from ffxi imo is the copy/paste technique and using it way to much and need to move away from that approach when possible. There were time's when I would see something that caught my eye and said hey what that and head over to be disappointed. There's a sense of no lifeness in my opinion to the areas they need to gradually give npc's/mob some kind of pattern to counter that. But thats my two cent on the supject.

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There is a very long thread on adding life to Eorzea with NPCs that do more and like moving random carriages in the field and such.. and I agree wholeheartedly....

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Black Shroud for exemple, sure they can keep an area with the overpasses and all, but them maybe the central shroud it could be more of an open forest, the east shroud more like a clearing. The western part could be those overpasses/mazes thing. Just so we don't feel like we are always in the same place regardless what level you are.

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There are some parts in the northeast where you're actually up in the trees... and you're right, I think they could embellish that being "Up in the trees" feeling to really create some diversity... and maybe they will
And the center being more wide open... I would like that
Its a forest but you never really file like you're "Amongst the trees"
You just kind of wander through stone paths and clearings....

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Complete redesign is pretty much required anyways, because the current zones already take you all the way to the cap and beyond. We have level 80 and 90-something monsters in the current zones.

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I'm not talking about MOB placement though... I agree with you there... but Im talking purely aesthetic

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Originally Posted by FilthyDisco

Honestly i'd rather have small, unique zones. Where every zone has a Final Fantasy feeling to it, a different theme for each zone, etc. I'm sure many of you will agree with me here.

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I do.... and I am looking forward to splitting the zones up into themed areas...
But I do like the theme of each zone now..... The thing is, that theme should only be used in 1/3 of each zone.. with 2 other themes per zone being added

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I am looking forward to splitting the zones up into themed areas...
But I do like the theme of each zone now..... The thing is, that theme should only be used in 1/3 of each zone.. with 2 other themes per zone being added

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They stated several times that they plan to include 3-4 very characteristic zones in every region to favor uniqueness and build a stronger theme.

Imagine if every zone had 3-4 Mor D'hona-like sites with the fallen airship entangled in a dragon's bones, or the crags from XI, or a volcano etc. I don't think they would need complete redesign, just make sure to integrate these spectacular new elements well in the current landscape with a form of progression within the region between those different zones.

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Originally Posted by northernsky

They stated several times that they plan to include 3-4 very characteristic zones in every region to favor uniqueness and build a stronger theme.

Imagine if every zone had 3-4 Mor D'hona-like sites with the fallen airship entangled in a dragon's bones, or the crags from XI, or a volcano etc. I don't think they would need complete redesign, just make sure to integrate these spectacular new elements well in the current landscape with a form of progression in the region between those different zones.

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I know.. and we've mentioned that in te thread... I just wanted peoples opinions on what they like to see in a zone

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So you'd like the feel of each zone as long as they didn't have the exact same ridge repeated over and over?

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I have problems with the length of time it takes to get from place to place, and then once you get to that area you spend a little bit of time there; you're done, and then you have to make the long journey elsewhere - so that's a pain. There's nothing exciting that happens between the points, there aren't even things like vendors where you can unload goods, or even people to talk to. I do think a few points major standout points of interest that actually mean something and do something are really important, but the zones don't really have them. At the very least, large points of interest serve as a navigation ground. You can also have smaller points of interests. For example, you could have Fungar creatures populating an area where there are some giant mushrooms. That makes sense because it's like their camouflage. It's not something that's going to overwhelm a players' sense, isn't grandiose, and doesn't take away from subtle zone aesthetics, but it makes sense and adds some character.

I do think Black Shroud is a zone that needs more than just repeating the same ridge - this is because of the HUGE gaps caused by the corridor. Black Shroud needs a MAJOR overhaul. It's annoying that the Black Shroud's major features are lakes that look identical to each other. The lakes should have character to them; it doesn't mean they need a tower of Babel shooting laser beams from it, but it needs to have its own flavor and purpose.

La Noscea really needs performance optimizations, so that would be the change I would suggest for it.

Thanalan has the best zone design. You have easy access to several different tilesets within the theme, and even though there are many repeated assets it's easier to digest in this zone because of its open space and larger items.

Mor Dhana is a mess and I would just overhaul it completely. No one wants to go to Mor Dhana and fight pigs and toads. It's basically saying here's a giant dragon - but what you're going to fight are lizards, pigs, and toads.

Coerthas is somewhere in the middle. It needs some performance optimizations; but like Mor Dhana and the other zones- nothing there matters.

A part of the zone redesigns should also focus on music, they need to add lots and lots of music. People talk about how FFXIV's music is so great, and there are some really nice pieces, but there is so little of it and it ends up ruining the ambient experience.

Right now between the three main zones there is about 6-9 minutes of non-combat music per zone. [which is what you're doing the majority of the time]

I researched this a few months ago, but one of my favorite zones in World of Warcraft has about 25 minutes of music for the daytime cycle.

This music is trimmed apart into smaller bits that make it feel relevant to areas within the zone, and it's a great feeling and adds so much to the zone design.

Daytime cycle music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpyInx0ldfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nGXJ...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFaVY...eature=related

The Night cycle has 20 minutes music, but it's modified to fight the night time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLJSIsg3lh8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5s-8...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFaVY...eature=related

So for this zone, there is nearly 1 hour of music.

Take some time to read the comments there, because the theme of the zone combined with the absolutely superb music really evoked emotional responses from people. I've heard these tracks so many times and they give me chills.

FFXIV has Nobeo Uematsu - his contributions to making the FF franchise successful are immensely high; so let him use his works to make the game more immersive.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I have problems with the length of time it takes to get from place to place, and then once you get to that area you spend a little bit of time there; you're done, and then you have to make the long journey elsewhere - so that's a pain. There's nothing exciting that happens between the points, there aren't even things like vendors where you can unload goods, or even people to talk to. I do think a few points major standout points of interest that actually mean something and do something are really important, but the zones don't really have them. At the very least, large points of interest serve as a navigation ground. You can also have smaller points of interests. For example, you could have Fungar creatures populating an area where there are some giant mushrooms. That makes sense because it's like their camouflage. It's not something that's going to overwhelm a players' sense, isn't grandiose, and doesn't take away from subtle zone aesthetics, but it makes sense and adds some character.

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That was a long post... but I honestly enjoyed it... you were honest about what you disliked... but I felt like it came from a serious desire for this game to be better.. and not just blind hate....
You know, I was gathering the other day and saw Funguar... and I was like "It would be cool if there were mushrooms that looked like the funguars when they are rooted to the ground..." that would really make it interesting.... maybe even harvestable mushrooms... so sometimes the botanists accidentally aggroed a funguar by mistake

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I know.. and we've mentioned that in te thread... I just wanted peoples opinions on what they like to see in a zone

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Yeah initially I quoted your opening post but in the time I finished my post a few others popped.

What I wanted to do was to highlight that saying that current themes are nice but should cover maybe 1/3 of the current regions seemed pretty accurate since they plan to introduce 3-4 strong themes in each region.

Then I replied to your opening point: I think that including said themes in the current regions would greatly improve aesthetic without having to completely redesign the maps.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

what do you guys think?

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I think you have too many 50's.

Aside from that, I'd like it to be subtle, but have many "POI's" like SWG used to have, places to run out to and visit. Also, "completely random" spawning chests and NMs would be great - that is, nothing campable. Even small, soloable dungeons that adjust based on party size and rank could be done this way.

I think SE has done an OK job with the beginning zones being bland, and the ending zones being cool. Now they just need to keep adding reasons for us to go to said zones.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I'm not talking about MOB placement though... I agree with you there... but Im talking purely aesthetic

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Well... the two will kinda go hand in hand I guess, because the game is set up so it caters to every level increase. Why bother going to new zones when you've got everything close to the cities and in the same old zones, you know?

But if they restrict mob levels in the old zones so that high level players are forced to use the new zones, then that's just going to be vast, vast stretches of mobs and land that's going to be filled with cut/paste mobs and content.

Would just be easier if they redesigned the current zones before adding new ones. Maybe keep the climate similar, but break it down something like this:

South Thanalan: Rocky desert
North Thanalan: Sandy/Saharan desert
West Thanalan: Badlands or Savanna
East Thanalan: Savanna/Tree Savanna

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Originally Posted by northernsky

Yeah initially I quoted your opening post but in the time I finished my post a few others popped.

What I wanted to do was to highlight that saying that current themes are nice but should cover maybe 1/3 of the current regions seemed pretty accurate since they plan to introduce 3-4 strong themes in each region.

Then I replied to your opening point: I think that including said themes in the current regions would greatly improve aesthetic without having to completely redesign the maps.

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One interesting thing is how they talk about 3-4 themes in each region when they do the redesign.

Look at Thanalan though:
Main area - trunk trees.
East - Desert
North/South - Canyons
North - Ceruleum Towers
West - Low ravines

Are those what constitute a theme? If that's the case then Thanalan already meets their requirement for themes, but lacks assets within each theme. Or is a theme supposed to be the objective of the area?

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Originally Posted by northernsky

Yeah initially I quoted your opening post but in the time I finished my post a few others popped.

What I wanted to do was to highlight that saying that current themes are nice but should cover maybe 1/3 of the current regions seemed pretty accurate since they plan to introduce 3-4 strong themes in each region.

Then I replied to your opening point: I think that including said themes in the current regions would greatly improve aesthetic without having to completely redesign the maps.

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So do you think the redesign will be a complete remapping also? or just aesthetic touches and removing a few copy/pasted rock faces

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Originally Posted by Alexis_Arteme

I think you have too many 50's.

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pre-1.18 leve static... 8 people doing the big 8 religiously for like 6 months.....
I started at launch and my first 50 (Glad) took like 2.5 months... but each one after that was faster and faster

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Originally Posted by Alexis_Arteme

Aside from that, I'd like it to be subtle, but have many "POI's" like SWG used to have, places to run out to and visit. Also, "completely random" spawning chests and NMs would be great - that is, nothing campable. Even small, soloable dungeons that adjust based on party size and rank could be done this way.

I think SE has done an OK job with the beginning zones being bland, and the ending zones being cool. Now they just need to keep adding reasons for us to go to said zones.

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Yea, there are cool ruins and MOBs in some out of the way places... and no reason to go there at all...

The copypasta was the reason for the backlash. I for one appreciate the "frontieresque" feel of the zones, and I think a certain amount of relative boredom accompanies that. I think it's something they probably intended to expand upon in time, but Tanaka's approach to dealing with memory limitations was unacceptable.

Whenever I think about the state the game was in when it launched I get an overriding feeling that everything that was in place was rushed out to give the appearance of a finished game.

The game was all facade with no depth. From the horrible leve system to the copy pasta maps, everything gave me the impression that they needed to show someone something that looked like a finished game and when whoever it was saw it they said "Great, lets ship it."

That being said I don't think every inch of the landscape needs to be spectacular and amazing, I just don't want to go exploring and find 50 caves that are all identical. Or see the same rock formation strewn across the landscape but facing different directions.

I am all for the complete redesign of the areas... and if they end up having largely the same aesthetic feel I won't mind... just so long as when I find a cave I've never seen before it doesn't end up looking like the last 10 caves I've found.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Whenever I think about the state the game was in when it launched I get an overriding feeling that everything that was in place was rushed out to give the appearance of a finished game.

The game was all facade with no depth. From the horrible leve system to the copy pasta maps, everything gave me the impression that they needed to show someone something that looked like a finished game and when whoever it was saw it they said "Great, lets ship it."

That being said I don't think every inch of the landscape needs to be spectacular and amazing, I just don't want to go exploring and find 50 caves that are all identical. Or see the same rock formation strewn across the landscape but facing different directions.

I am all for the complete redesign of the areas... and if they end up having largely the same aesthetic feel I won't mind... just so long as when I find a cave I've never seen before it doesn't end up looking like the last 10 caves I've found.

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No one really talks about that... but the caves are a big area where FFXIV could shine if some effort was put into them... interesting and more diverse MOBs...... differing designs... some reason to go in them... something unique.... Also less light... the caves are way too bright to have absolutely no light source

I remember going into a cave area and there was a shrine of some kind with absolute no one around npc worshiping it I got to go back to that area and find it again but I remember it. First thing came to mind was wtf were the npc all I heard was echo's of my own voice in that cave...

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I'm not talking about MOB placement though... I agree with you there... but Im talking purely aesthetic

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I think mob placement does go hand-in-hand with the aesthetics of the zones. If you stepped outside the gates of Ul'Dah, and had to fight level 1 Cactuars, or outside Gridania and had to fight level 1 Bombs, or even outside Limsa Lominsa and had to fight Sahagin, people would know right away they're playing a FF game instead of having to run through squirrels and marmots and dodos and sheep before getting to anything that gives the game a sense of belonging to the the series. I think we'd all have been a lot more forgiving in the beginning if we had to fight our way through the different zones to get to the next camp with the next tier of FF monster.

Does any of that make sense?

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

One interesting thing is how they talk about 3-4 themes in each region when they do the redesign.

Look at Thanalan though:
Main area - trunk trees.
East - Desert
North/South - Canyons
North - Ceruleum Towers
West - Low ravines

Are those what constitute a theme? If that's the case then Thanalan already meets their requirement for themes, but lacks assets within each theme. Or is a theme supposed to be the objective of the area?

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Here is a part of an interview with YoshiP and Iwao (the map designer it seems):

Famitsu: Can you explain in more details about the large scale change being made to the map?

Yoshida: The method is already made and sample is also done so now working on the level design and work on the amount/resources. For concept it will be memorable place where once you step in you will not forget. For each zone/area having about 3 themes is the goal.

Iwao: It will function as a landmark

Taken from Reinhart's thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post281974

Now I'm not so sure but the 1st time I read it I focused on "memorable place" more than "theme" so I hoped it would be more like something stunning that melts in the zone theme rather than a different type of landscape that is the theme like you describe in your post.

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Originally Posted by quantumsaint

I think mob placement does go hand-in-hand with the aesthetics of the zones. If you stepped outside the gates of Ul'Dah, and had to fight level 1 Cactuars, or outside Gridania and had to fight level 1 Bombs, or even outside Limsa Lominsa and had to fight Sahagin, people would know right away they're playing a FF game instead of having to run through squirrels and marmots and dodos and sheep before getting to anything that gives the game a sense of belonging to the the series. I think we'd all have been a lot more forgiving in the beginning if we had to fight our way through the different zones to get to the next camp with the next tier of FF monster.

Does any of that make sense?

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Makes sense lol

Since I still have that interview on my browser:

"Famitsu: after the large scale changes, for the current land marks or name of locations how much will be utilized?

Yoshida: Even it’s major change, Eorzea is Eorzea so the world Iwao made will still be there. But we think the monster placements needs changes from the root and for monster strength it should be 1 zone with 1-2 theme.

Iwao: If you can think of it as more deep settings for the maps.

From Reinheart's thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post281974

It does not have to be a completely different set of mobs, but I think you gave good examples of how they could further emphasize the different themes right from the start

I wouldn't want to fight cactuars at level 1 =P

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Originally Posted by quantumsaint

I think mob placement does go hand-in-hand with the aesthetics of the zones. If you stepped outside the gates of Ul'Dah, and had to fight level 1 Cactuars, or outside Gridania and had to fight level 1 Bombs, or even outside Limsa Lominsa and had to fight Sahagin, people would know right away they're playing a FF game instead of having to run through squirrels and marmots and dodos and sheep before getting to anything that gives the game a sense of belonging to the the series. I think we'd all have been a lot more forgiving in the beginning if we had to fight our way through the different zones to get to the next camp with the next tier of FF monster.

Does any of that make sense?

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I agree... completely... I just didn't include in this thread because it really requires a thread all it's own.... It sounds like SE is on the right track with it though... which is a very good thing... I'm willing to give it time and let them do it right....
But... what are your thoughts on putting 1 (or more) high level non-aggro mob in a starter zone just to serve as a little flavor fro the lower level zones... like how the wild Saurian was in the Dalmasca Eastersand in FFXII....
Even a little ecology like having one lvl 10 or 15 mongrel spawn in an area with a bunch of star marmots.... And as long as there are star marmots there... it will attack them... and will turn on you once the star marmots are dead. It would even work with the new claiming system as it would even be able to attack the MOB you are fighting....

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Originally Posted by northernsky

It does not have to be a completely different set of mobs, but I think you gave good examples of how they could further emphasize the different themes right from the start

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*Nitpicking alert*
I'd like it if there was more variance within the MOBs so the low level cactaurs don't look exactly like the high level cactaurs... or the drakes, guivre and biasts don't all look the same but different colors... I know I am being petty... but I feel like if I've been playing for a year... I should be able to play with names off and still be able to tell what level of MOB I am fighting... based off of how they look....
*nitpick over*

Wait before new regions I want Ishgard and some dungeons to be released.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

I would rather a complete redesign.

The maps are way too big to just call them bland. I would not mind if let's say a sub-zone of the region is bland and monotonous if it serves the game. Like maybe the drybone area in Thanalan could be bland and monotonous, but then since the other sub-zones of Thanalan wouldn't be bland and monotonous, Drybone would feel unique as well in this regard so it would not feel bland after all.

The problem is you can walk 30min in the same zone and yet you feel like you are in the same place you started, this is even more noticable in the Black Shroud.

With the redesign, not everything has to be over the top unique and gorgeous, some zones or new zones could be more or less depending of the design, but have 2-3 different themes per regions like Yoshi-P confirmed will be more than welcomed.

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What he said I think most of the landscapes aren't worth saving in the game and they should just do a complete overhaul. few statues here and there won't do it. It'll be interesting to see what SE comes up with since so far they tend to go for the easiest solutions that require the absolute least amount of work but good environment design has no workarounds.