So if dps queues are so long....

wouldn't having future dungeons with a lite party help if they consisted of 3 dps instead of 2? for every one tank it would help 3 dps instead. Also, 5 man parties would be fun.

It still wouldn't change anything until more people stopped playing DPS and played healer or tank. People don't want to be a healer or a tank, ergo, long wait times for DPS.

dps queues for me arent that long at all tho.. 10 min max probably more like 7 but rounded it up abit.. only queue that is long for me is pvp but its long for every1 lol

Yeah I understand that not enough people play tank or healer which is the main culprit, but having 3 dps join per tank/healer instead of 2 would have to shave off some time.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

It still wouldn't change anything until more people stopped playing DPS and played healer or tank. People don't want to be a healer or a tank, ergo, long wait times for DPS.

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It would improve dungeon queue times regardless by reducing the number of DPS that are in the queue. The reason queues take so long on DPS isn't because there are no tanks/healers, it's because there aren't enough tanks/healers for the amount of people queued up on DPS.

That said, this suggestion has been made a lot already and the devs have only taken it into consideration for 24 mans so far.

Yeah I love pvping; I enjoy it in this game. However, My limited play time would be wasted waiting in pvp queue. Also, I'm a tank and figured dps queues were long by what people say.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

That said, this suggestion has been made a lot already and the devs have only taken it into consideration for 24 mans so far.

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They should also consider the fact that 5 mans are more fun than 4.
Yeah it's just my opinion; I wonder what the general population would prefer.

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Originally Posted by joe30174

Yeah I love pvping; I enjoy it in this game. However, My limited play time would be wasted waiting in pvp queue. Also, I'm a tank and figured dps queues were long by what people say.

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Haha pvp queues are a whole other beast all together. Those are long for tanks and healers as well I assure you.

Some of the reasons for long queues in pvp are that there is little to no incentive (set of vanity gear + mounts that take literally hundreds of hours grinding to get) and because people are locked into restrictions such as GC and the party job setup restrictions in wolves' den.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Haha pvp queues are a whole other beast all together. Those are long for tanks and healers as well I assure you.

Some of the reasons for long queues in pvp are that there is little to no incentive (set of vanity gear + mounts that take literally hundreds of hours grinding to get) and because people are locked into restrictions such as GC and the party job setup restrictions in wolves' den.

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Well it's fun for me, which is enough of an incentive to play. Just the queue times lol. I guess I can have a different perspective on it. Now I love the queue time.
1.) I get super excited when it is ready.
2) with slaughter being the only available lvl 50 pvp instance, I would grow to hate it if I was able to play it 50 times a day.

Having 3 dps, 1 healer and 1 tank doesn't slow down dps queues in other games, doubt it would here. Last time I played WoW it was like 45 minutes for me as dps, this game is actually the lowest I've ever seen for dps sadly.

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Originally Posted by Chek

Having 3 dps, 1 healer and 1 tank doesn't slow down dps queues in other games, doubt it would here. Last time I played WoW it was like 45 minutes for me as dps, this game is actually the lowest I've ever seen for dps sadly.

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Its hard comparing this to another game though. On wow if they changed 3 dps to 2 it may be longer than 45 minutes. Idk, it just seems like it would make sense that if there were more dps per tank/healer the dps would queue faster because dpsare waiting for tanks/healers. But surprisingly everyone is saying fps queues aren't a problem, which is good.

FFXI Style NPC that tank/heal if no player was founf in like... 10-15 min, even if their AI were not that good would help, even... make DPS more careful to not steal much agro or rush???? Dunno,maybe a couple of selectionable npc at start of dungeon that play different so party have a run more adapted

I'm asking for much, but yeah

Other option, less develop consuming, would be to let 3-4 dps join and give them an echo that boost their defenses or gives them regen.

Or the most dificult way to solve it: Make the community less elitist/whiny to tanks/healers that are just trying to have fun and learn, and give veterans a incentive to help new players

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Originally Posted by jazo

Or the most dificult way to solve it: Make the community less elitist/whiny to tanks/healers that are just trying to have fun and learn, and give veterans a incentive to help new players

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We can say goodbye to this option lol. I'm not necessarily new, but I progress slow due to my schedule. Luckily, I haven't ran into any elitists yet, but I haven't reached the high end raids and stuff. I know they exist though.

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Originally Posted by joe30174

We can say goodbye to this option lol. I'm not necessarily new, but I progress slow due to my schedule. Luckily, I haven't ran into any elitists yet, but I haven't reached the high end raids and stuff. I know they exist though.

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DPS and Healers try this to me all the time in pre-50 stuff, honestly, with the whole elitist/whiny spiel :P I threaten the DPS with putting them back in the queue and tell the healers to pipe down till we start wiping more than once a boss, unless they'd like to be the meatshield instead.

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Originally Posted by Kuurei

DPS and Healers try this to me all the time in pre-50 stuff, honestly, with the whole elitist/whiny spiel :P I threaten the DPS with putting them back in the queue and tell the healers to pipe down till we start wiping more than once a boss, unless they'd like to be the meatshield instead.

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I guess I just get lucky. Well the first bit of dungeons were super easy. After they started getting a little more difficult I said I was new and made a couple of mistakes. The worst reactions to my mistakes were just talkative people becoming less talkative. I figured post-50 (not right away where people zip through dungeons like the first couple of raids) is where most elitists would be.

As a healer I had dps keep getting cleaved by being in front with the tank all I was thinking of this song in my head and wish for them to listen to it :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6viGS-T9QF0

I really don't see how people can argue that a 1:1:3 ratio wouldn't decrease queue times for DPS. It is just a mathematical fact. Look at world of darkness and syrcus tower if you don't believe math.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

I really don't see how people can argue that a 1:1:3 ratio wouldn't decrease queue times for DPS. It is just a mathematical fact. Look at world of darkness and syrcus tower if you don't believe math.

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I disagree. Before the weekly quests that gave out the carbon stuff came out, it was damn difficult to find people in DF signing up for the LOTA and even ST because there was no incentive to do them. They were old content with outdated rewards, thus no one had a reason to do them. Even certain trials don't get attention anymore due to everyone already getting what they want.

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Originally Posted by joe30174

They should also consider the fact that 5 mans are more fun than 4.
Yeah it's just my opinion; I wonder what the general population would prefer.

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Depends really. The advantage of 4 man parties over 5 is that, as a DPS, you pull more weight.

Ultimately, they need to make being a healer or tank just as fun as DPS to play, in order to get a more even mix. I don't know how to do that. 3 dps insted of 2 would help, but it would only be a temporary solution.

On a related note... the DPS Queues for WoD pre-patch were less than 10minutes. (usually less than 5)
Post-patch (20-30mins+) ... -_-;

Eh. The only problem is they'd have to go back and re-balance all that content for 5 players instead of 4. The content was created to be a certain difficulty level, and adding another DPS would skew that pretty severely.

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

Ultimately, they need to make being a healer or tank just as fun as DPS to play, in order to get a more even mix. I don't know how to do that. 3 dps insted of 2 would help, but it would only be a temporary solution.

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It's not so much about whether or not healer and tank is fun to play, but the responsibilities those two classes carry. As a DPS, all you gotta do is spam the hell out of your moves for those MAD DEEPS. Healers have to micromanage their MP, the HP of everyone, who to revive and when, removing debuffs, buffing the party, etc. Tanks have to maintain hate at all times and yank hate off other players that got them. Healers and tanks get so much flak if they even screw up once and having a bad healer/tank is just as bad.

A MMORPG is a community effort. You can't go on your own and expect everything to be handed to you.

If there are more plumbers in your city than the amount of plumbing jobs available, then either you become something your community needs, you find a way to deal with the competition or you go somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by LloydShade

A MMORPG is a community effort. You can't go on your own and expect everything to be handed to you.

If there are more plumbers in your city than the amount of plumbing jobs available, then either you become something your community needs, you find a way to deal with the competition or you go somewhere else.

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True in some respects, but this isn't a community issue. It's deeper than something so shallow as you prescribe. It points to a fundamental shortfall in the design of the classes themselves. In short, they haven't made their healing and tanking classes as fun to play as their dps classes. The real and permanent solution to uneven queues is to address this. How? I have no idea, but that is the root of the issue.

I've always been partial to 6 mans. 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 or 3 dps, 1 or 2 support.

I know it's not really plausible but it would be fun.

I really think all content should be built around 1 tank personally, there just arent enough ppl playing it. Healers and dps are fine.

I played a game where the party set up was 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 dps. They had 6 DPS classes, 2 healing classes, 2 tank classes (though 1 could also queue as a DPS because they were hella squishy), so it was basically the same as this game.

The queues were 45 minutes anyway, especially for end-game content. They had 10-man raids and it took easily 1-2 hours to get in if you weren't pre-made.

DPS queues are always going to be bad in every MMO, because normally there's more DPS classes than there are tanks and healers. I don't think I've ever played an MMO with a queue system and the tank/heal/DPS set up that didn't have 15-60 minute wait times.

Changing the party make-up will destroy the way the current dungeons are set up and the only dungeons where it would work is new dungeons where they would be made for the set up.

A feature like this would break the game.

Problem is really a few things. I think adding a 5 man dungeon would be a good idea OR they could address root issues.

1. If the tank blows it - everyone knows it. If the healer blows it - everyone knows it. If the DPS blows it... well they might realize it but there will be 2 or 4 of them so blame is dispersed.
2. Since SE frowns on parsers no one gets on DPS's case. If a healer isn't healing well or a tank doesn't hold hate they get blamed. Easy fix... create an in built parser within the game.
3. People are shallow. Oooohh big #s!!!

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

True in some respects, but this isn't a community issue. It's deeper than something so shallow as you prescribe. It points to a fundamental shortfall in the design of the classes themselves. In short, they haven't made their healing and tanking classes as fun to play as their dps classes. The real and permanent solution to uneven queues is to address this. How? I have no idea, but that is the root of the issue.

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It's not just this game, though. Shortage of tanks/healers is common to a lot of MMO's.

You know what would reduce queue times?

The ability for jobs to fulfill multiple roles rather than being pigeonholed into one.

I normally tank in MMOs, but I don't tank here because I have no interest in the paladin or warrior jobs.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Problem is really a few things. I think adding a 5 man dungeon would be a good idea OR they could address root issues.

1. If the tank blows it - everyone knows it. If the healer blows it - everyone knows it. If the DPS blows it... well they might realize it but there will be 2 or 4 of them so blame is dispersed.
2. Since SE frowns on parsers no one gets on DPS's case. If a healer isn't healing well or a tank doesn't hold hate they get blamed. Easy fix... create an in built parser within the game.
3. People are shallow. Oooohh big #s!!!

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What the....

#3 implies you're not elitist, but you want a built in parser which is basically encouraging elitism 0.o my brain is about to fry like a robot's circutboard when you say "The next thing I say will be the truth; I always lie" lol.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I disagree. Before the weekly quests that gave out the carbon stuff came out, it was damn difficult to find people in DF signing up for the LOTA and even ST because there was no incentive to do them. They were old content with outdated rewards, thus no one had a reason to do them. Even certain trials don't get attention anymore due to everyone already getting what they want.

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Why are you bringing up Labyrinth of the Ancients? It is a 1:1:2 ratio. You are just proving my point. You can disagree with math all you like, but you are wrong. The only DF content with a 1:1:3 ratio is ST and WoD and they have tank queues that are about equal to or longer than DD queues.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Changing the party make-up will destroy the way the current dungeons are set up and the only dungeons where it would work is new dungeons where they would be made for the set up.

A feature like this would break the game.

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Break the already faceroll difficulty of the current dungeons? None of them have strategies that would be easier with 5 people. All they'd have to do is scale the monsters HP to offset another DD.

well... you can like, make friends and one of them happen to be a tank/healer, or you have friends that are both....

and then BADDA BING!

There are enough Tanks and Healers but 90% of them dont use the DF and sometimes i can understand why.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

On a related note... the DPS Queues for WoD pre-patch were less than 10minutes. (usually less than 5)
Post-patch (20-30mins+) ... -_-;

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They opened up Final Coil, so a lot of tanks and healers will just want to spam that instead of WoD so therefor longer queues for WoD.

DPS queue times are just as long as your buddy tank/healer queue time as long as you queue together ;)

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Originally Posted by Ryans

I really don't see how people can argue that a 1:1:3 ratio wouldn't decrease queue times for DPS. It is just a mathematical fact. Look at world of darkness and syrcus tower if you don't believe math.

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I shall attempt to challenge you with something I learned recently: Induced demand

I think that increasing the amount of DPS that can queue will increase the amount of DPS that will queue, because there are people who find queueing as tank/healer more convenient even though they want to play DPS. Some will switch when it becomes more convenient to queue as DPS.
And so, nothing changes as the proportion of DPS stays the same.