Exactly what the title says. With a full version number update around the corner, imagine that you're sitting in that SE boardroom trying to think of the kinds of mechanic and rule changes that devs can only get away with at a time like this. They don't need to make sense or have any chance of being viable; they just need to be capable of shaking things up. Who's in? Here's my examples.
Stats and Gear
- Accessories are now class/job locked based on who uses the main stat primarily on them. STR goes to MNK/DRG, VIT goes to Tanks, etc.
- Doesn't it seem odd that Grade IV Main Stat materia gives more points of stat than Determination materia, considering the gaps between their benefits? Let's mess with that. There are no longer any Grade I Main Stat materia. Grade II is +1, III is +2, up to Grade V being +4. Vitality and Piety Materia are not affected.
- Crafted Accessories no longer have any guaranteed meld slots. Crafted Body pieces now has only one guaranteed meld slot. Crafting and Gathering gear is not affected by this change.
- Vitality is now the stat that primarily determines damage for Tanks. Alternately, both Vitality and Strength determine damage but Strength contributes less than Vitality.
- Parry is now on every single piece of Tank gear. Its allocation on gear will be "free", just like Accuracy on healer gear.
- Small amounts of Piety can now be found on Caster gear. It's allocation on gear will also be free.
- Dexterity is now found on Tank gear, in allocations equal to half of Strength. After all, what good is it to make a stat that explicitly benefits procs that only two jobs really use... and then not give it to those two jobs?
- Determination is removed from the game. It's too redundant.
- All secondary stats provide greater effects on healers in order to promote actual dichotomy between builds. Piety is not considered for these effects.
Mechanics
- In instanced content level 45 and above, any attack from a monster whose intended target is the player highest in threat will instantly kill that player unless the attack is mitigated somehow. Shield Oath and Defiance are considered to be mitigation for this purpose.
- Being outside of a Tank stance now halves aggro generation once a Tank Stance has been unlocked.
- Cleric Stance now reduces the heal potency of Eos and Selene's Embrace and Whispering Dawn.
- Fights which are built to require two tanks now properly enforce this property. If it is a stacking debuff that requires a swap, tanks will instantly die to the next attack at X number of stacks. If it is a debuff that makes a specific attack an instant kill, that attack eats through Hallowed Ground and Holmgang. If it is an attack intended to be shared between both tanks, then it will instantly kill everyone hit unless two of the targets are tanks. If there are adds that another Tank is required to grab, then they will gain significant damage up and vulnerability down buffs if they are too close to the boss.
- At Level 55, Black Mages can carry up to 3 stacks of Firestarter at once and 2 stacks of Thundercloud. However, letting any of them time out causes them all to be lost. Using one will reset the timer.
- At Level 55, Succor will be affected by Crits the way Adloquium is.
- The spell speed buff granted by critical hits from pets will instead increase critical hit rate for Summoners.
Raids
- Raid instances now feature a miniboss which drops a single piece of gear upon defeat. Regular bosses will still drop two. The difficulty of these minibosses will be tuned at approximately 66-75% of the proper boss's difficulty. There will be no miniboss in the last portion of a raid. Loot tables are split between all three chests in the instance.
- In addition to random drops from raid bosses, all players will be rewarded a token unique to that boss which can be redeemed for specific drops from that boss in high enough quantities(8 for body/pants, 5 for head/hand/feet, 3 for waist/accessory). If raids also drop materials to enhance alternate gear, then 2 tokens from any boss can be exchanged for right side pieces and 3 for left. Tokens are universal in respect to jobs and unique only in respect to the defeated boss. Weapon drops from the final boss of the raid cannot be obtained with these tokens.
- "Trash" monsters in raids are now actually dangerous and require strategy to defeat. Inexperienced groups may not actually reach the boss of a portion of the raid on their first attempt. Under no circumstances can these encounters be avoided or skipped.
So, um, well, I suppose that's a good enough start. Have at it. Be as silly and crazy as you want!
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03-03-2015, 01:17 AMDonjo3.0's Coming... What are the Craziest Game Changes you can Think of?
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03-03-2015, 01:25 AMMageBlack
The phasing out of the Class system and adjustment of the Armory system. Yoshi-P Commented on this quite some time ago and I want more details on what he meant and what direction this is taking!
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03-03-2015, 02:05 AMSumimi
Outside of Cleric Stance, WHM Holy aoe heals for Cure 1 Potency in addition to it's original effects.
In Cleric Stance, unchanged.
...what? I can dream!
In all seriousness, I wanna see stance dancing making a bigger impact on gameplay. -
03-03-2015, 02:08 AMInuk9
I want monks to be more mobile and a better AOE rotation besides using PB. And a real definitive High damage/High Cooldown skill (like Asura's fist in Ragnarok online)
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03-03-2015, 02:09 AMPterois
removing housing item limits inside and out for all sizes, allowing us to choose the gear (appearance) for NPCs in the house, embrace the housing glitch that allows people to place table top items anywhere and apply it to all items with the ability to resize objects as well.
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03-03-2015, 02:20 AMBrianmj
A complete redesign of SMN, cause they'd be crazy and it would piss off a lot of people...
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03-03-2015, 02:24 AMInuk9Lol, that would be funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianmj
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03-03-2015, 02:51 AMOMEGA_HACK
Reduce Recast of Invigorate from 180 > 120
Change combo from: Heavy Thrust > Ring of Thorns to Heavy Thrust > Phlebotomize (when used in this combo DoT potency increased from 30 to 40) > Ring of Thorns (when used in this combo Ring of Thorns adds: 5 second Bind)
Have the decrease in Life Surge go from 90 > 50 to 90 > 45 (this allows for a cleaner combo "wheel" with virtually no delay between off global and global cooldowns)
Remove Keen Flurry from Dragoon (give it to any tank job honestly) replace with Speed Surge (next non-global cool ability used will have no recast time applied OR 30 second duration: Spell Speed/Skill Speed is increased by up to 25% [increased from traits 15% originally] cooldown: 90seconds) -
03-03-2015, 02:53 AMKuwagamiNo thanks. Tank crafted accessories are crap for my WAR and I love my slaying stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
It's because it's secondary stat, and scales well with the other secondary stats's materias. Besides, I'd like to have grade V materias when 3.0 comesQuote:
- Doesn't it seem odd that Grade IV Main Stat materia gives more points of stat than Determination materia, considering the gaps between their benefits?
No thanks. Or you ease SBing by like 1000%, because it's a real pain in the ass as it is nowQuote:
- Crafted Accessories no longer have any guaranteed meld slots. Crafted Body pieces now has only one guaranteed meld slot. Crafting and Gathering gear is not affected by this change.
wouldn't work. I could somewhat agree on a "vitality increases your defense" like the stamina stat works in other games, but damage is not what vitality bringsQuote:
- Vitality is now the stat that primarily determines damage for Tanks. Alternately, both Vitality and Strength determine damage but Strength contributes less than Vitality.
apart forcing us to have parry, what does it do ? Just rework parry to actually be useful instead.Quote:
- Parry is now on every single piece of Tank gear. Its allocation on gear will be "free", just like Accuracy on healer gear.
only benefits SMN, and wouldn't be fitting. Also, WMN will be reworked for 3.0 with changes on Spell speed, so that may not even be necessary.Quote:
- Small amounts of Piety can now be found on Caster gear. It's allocation on gear will also be free.
Dexterity has no use for tanks except increasing parry rate by a bit. While being an increase, it's not fitting.Quote:
- Dexterity is now found on Tank gear, in allocations equal to half of Strength. After all, what good is it to make a stat that explicitly benefits procs that only two jobs really use... and then not give it to those two jobs?
removing a stat in a game where the few stats present are already boring is just bad design.Quote:
- Determination is removed from the game. It's too redundant.
unnecessary difficulty is just dumb. Leave instant kills and tank busters in raids, they do not belong in dungeons.Quote:
- In instanced content level 45 and above, any attack from a monster whose intended target is the player highest in threat will instantly kill that player unless the attack is mitigated somehow. Shield Oath and Defiance are considered to be mitigation for this purpose.
and again, no point. If you steal hate as OT, you're bad or your MT doesn't know how to 1-2-3. period.Quote:
- Being outside of a Tank stance now halves aggro generation once a Tank Stance has been unlocked.
it already does if you summon a fairy while in stanceQuote:
- Cleric Stance now reduces the heal potency of Eos and Selene's Embrace and Whispering Dawn.
No. Balance should prevail, and this throws balance out of the window.Quote:
- At Level 55, Black Mages can carry up to 3 stacks of Firestarter at once and 2 stacks of Thundercloud. However, letting any of them time out causes them all to be lost. Using one will reset the timer.
these two stats have nothing in common. Please be serious.Quote:
- The spell speed buff granted by critical hits from pets will instead increase critical hit rate for Summoners.
As for me, I would just want to have a real job system, ala FFT or Bravely Default with a primary job and a sub job. -
03-03-2015, 02:54 AMInuk9
I really want specs in this game. All Dragoons feel the same, all monks too, all blm...etc.
Even without changing the job's role a spec would make a difference and will help to motivate people to create more characters. -
03-03-2015, 02:57 AMVladyRedesign of summoner would bring in more players then upset. I know dozens in my old ff 11 link shell that was turned off from wow clone ff 14.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inuk9
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03-03-2015, 02:57 AMNiqoteAllow us to upgrade housing plots by either spending lots of time and resources (ie. upgrade small plot to medium plot = 1000 grade 1 soil) or by just paying a gil price. Same for the house itself. (wood, nails, tiles etc etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pterois
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03-03-2015, 02:58 AMTalia_Hailwind
Making spell speed so that as well as increasing speed of casting, it also increases the speed of DOT ticks and regen ticks.
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03-03-2015, 03:41 AMNominous
- More stats to choose between on gear. Critical Damage, Mp Regen, Tp Regen would be the three I'd choose since everything else is pretty well represented.
- Raids being changed to have 3 bosses, as you've said. For one, it makes the raid more of an actual spectacle (some time investment required once you learn turns). For two, it gives a better chance at loot, even at the cost of progressing faster.
- More variety of gearing options. One set of raid gear, all of which is 5 item levels above tome/other current level gear. One set of Tome gear at current item level. One set of alternative 'alliance' raid gear 5 levels below current item level. Alliance raid gear has one or two slots, and can only be melded that number of slots (cannot exceed 2).
- Cooldowns removed when you wipe. (This is something that should already be in the game).
- After that change above, it'd be way more viable to have 10 minute cooldowns in the game. Cool skills (Level 60) that are really flashy, and greater reinforce the strengths (and maybe even the weaknesses) of your Job.
- Multi-hit weaponskills/abilities. If your skill animates and looks like you should be hitting the enemy twice, split the potency (which may buff most attacks naturally), and have it hit multiple times with x potency per hit.
- Phoenix Down is able to raise a party member, but has a cast-bar (slightly less cast time than raise, can only be used once by every party member per raid).
- When you hit level 60, your Job gains a new name (for example Paladin->Holy Knight) and a questline that unlocks 'slots' for your skills.
- Skill Slot system. 2 per skill. The slots can be filled with skill-based materia. So instead of stat points, this Materia has skill-related bonuses. "TP Regen on hit", "Chance to critically hit +%", "Potency +", "Defense +" would just be a few of the basic materia. Then you'd have SPECIAL materia you could gain in other ways, like quests or high-end raids. Those special materia augment things like, "Jump distance + 5 yalms", "Goad effects all party members, less TP regain", "Trick Attack duration +5 seconds". -
03-03-2015, 03:43 AMKajukai
Deleting every single Lala? Please.
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03-03-2015, 03:45 AMKiroh
The combat system will be adjust so it's easier to see enemies in large groups of players.
On an unrelated note, the new tome gear will be upgraded through a new type of FATE... -
03-03-2015, 03:50 AMIromi
Hmm maybe some job redesigns? And some open world dungeons! ^^
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03-03-2015, 05:06 AMDonjoThe accessory thing addresses imbalances that currently exist with the stat systems and helps to prevent confusion over which accessories one should be wearing. Would you want your WHM wearing a full set of VIT accessories? It also speaks of awful, awful design when the meta for a particular role calls for them not to use the gear that's explicitly assigned to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwagami
The point is that 7 "Main Stat" confers so much more of a benefit than 6 Determination that it makes absolutely no sense that the main stat materia would provide more raw points. Determination materia is fine where it is but the main stat stuff should be scaled back.Quote:
It's because it's secondary stat, and scales well with the other secondary stats's materias. Besides, I'd like to have grade V materias when 3.0 comes
Right now, crafted gear is grossly overpowered. Unless you have some method in mind by which materia melding can be changed to be based on skill rather than pure RNG, then something like this is literally the only way to dial it down.Quote:
No thanks. Or you ease SBing by like 1000%, because it's a real pain in the ass as it is now
Wouldn't work? It already worked in the STR and VIT determines damage paradigm in 1.0 for Warrior, which people are tending to agree was a more robust and flexible stat system. It likely wasn't removed for any reason resembling VIT not making sense as a damage stat, but rather as a part of simplifying the stat system as a whole for ARR. Now that we have this solid base under us, the devs did express a desire to look into possibly adding more complexity into things again. Besides, I fail to see how a "hardier" person can't swing a weapon harder than someone who is less so.Quote:
wouldn't work. I could somewhat agree on a "vitality increases your defense" like the stamina stat works in other games, but damage is not what vitality brings
The other option is certainly making parry useful, but that is actually impossible when one considers the scope secondary stats are currently taking. As I said, these points of parry wouldn't count toward gear allocation. You'd just get parry because you're a Tank. There's literally no room to whine about it because it's free: you lose absolutely nothing for having it. If Dark Knight is truly a Dodge/Parry tank, then something like this will be necessary for anyone who wants to play as Tanks other than Dark Knight once in a while.Quote:
apart forcing us to have parry, what does it do ? Just rework parry to actually be useful instead.
Sure, it might be unnecessary, but that's not the point. The point is to be silly and/or crazy here.Quote:
only benefits SMN, and wouldn't be fitting. Also, WMN will be reworked for 3.0 with changes on Spell speed, so that may not even be necessary.
"It wouldn't work" and "it's not fitting" seems to be a running trend with you. If giving Dexterity to the tanks is not fitting when it provides a benefit that only they would use, then what is the point of it providing that benefit at all?Quote:
Dexterity has no use for tanks except increasing parry rate by a bit. While being an increase, it's not fitting.
You know what's also bad design? Having more than one stat that does exactly the same thing. When we count together Weapon Damage, Main Stat, and Determination, we have three stats that do exactly the same thing. This point also assumed that perhaps they'd add additional stats in 3.0.Quote:
removing a stat in a game where the few stats present are already boring is just bad design.
The only increased difficulty here is a harsher benefit for losing hate... which some people desperately need if they're ever going to grow as tanks and some DPS need in order to learn that aggro is actually a thing that exists. This point, though, primarily serves one purpose and one purpose alone: preventing Tanks from "tanking" something outside of the Tank Stance while in party based content.Quote:
unnecessary difficulty is just dumb. Leave instant kills and tank busters in raids, they do not belong in dungeons.
If the MT is full VIT and the OT is a Paladin in full Strength, that MT is going to lose hate to the Paladin. But, this is really just another method of discouraging tanking outside of the proper stance.Quote:
and again, no point. If you steal hate as OT, you're bad or your MT doesn't know how to 1-2-3. period.
The idea is that if you slip into the stance while the fairy is already out, the healing potency decrease hits the fairy right then and there.Quote:
it already does if you summon a fairy while in stance
None of us have any business stating what will or will not be balanced at levels above 50. We should leave that word at the door for now.Quote:
No. Balance should prevail, and this throws balance out of the window.
They have nothing in common? If anything, what currently exists has nothing in common: it makes no sense that a critical hit from a pet would increase the master's spell speed. Isn't that odd on its own? It already makes more sense for a critical hit to enhance more critical hits.Quote:
these two stats have nothing in common. Please be serious.
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And finally...
Now this is a cool idea. Let's hope something like this actually happens! Progression would become more than just gear :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominous
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03-03-2015, 05:23 AMNominousQuote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
Yeah, I wish I could make some design recommendations for them. It's not so hard to implement balanced, and fun customization choices for people. -
03-03-2015, 05:24 AMLeandras
Minfillia's boobs receive a minor reduction in size. Oh the nightmares!
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03-03-2015, 05:26 AMPteroisThe kinda of people who benefit largely off wearing cross class accessories are the kinda of people who study (or at least read a little) about the full implications of wearing such gear. Start examining obvious end-game raiders (people who at the moment are wearing FCOB gear) and you will notice that for the most part the gear was created by the same person... which you could also assume they melded it as well... not just willy nilly putz'ing about on the MB and buying all the things cuz their rich... and then max melding them with vit I materia lol. But scaling the RIDICULOUS masterbook II wall and them pushing that gear to its highest level to reach caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
Everything you said about these accessories (and even stuff about stats in general) is completely wrong. The people who equip this stuff know exactly which one they should be wearing how to maximize its full potential through melds. Even if you don't use it for that purpose, and want to use it how it was intended then its pretty clear that the tank should wear fending, blm caster, whm healing... And if you are to stupid to figure out anything i just said then you have no place at end game accessories and REALLY hope they dont start designing this game towards them.
edit: oh and making meld's even more of a gil sink (no 100% spot) would not stop people form doing exactly whats being done already... just piss em off because you dangled that spot in front of them then took it away. -
03-03-2015, 05:38 AMHumsterMKX
Will a complete redesign of Lalafells be too crazy?
Increase head size by 30% body shrink by 25%
HP replaced by Gil
MP replaced by F____ given. -
03-03-2015, 05:48 AMDhex
Add a MDT/PDT -% stat.
Return the direct Enmity (+/-) stat. (v1.0)
Increasing Skill Speed adds a Regain effect to the natural TP return. (TP Refresh)
Return gear special effects & bonuses.
Return gear set bonuses.
Paladin:
Alternative 3-step combo. (Example: Fast Blade, Riot Blade, -> Circle of the Round)
Return -> Holy Succor, Divine Veil, Phalanx (v1.23) - Holy Succor was essentially a Medica that Paladin had that returned 50% of the HP restored to your party members within range to the Paladin, Divine Veil added a Medica II style regen to those around you whenever you were healed, Phalanx was a reactive damage attack & debuffed the target.
Warrior:
Return-> Rampage, Might Strikes, Collusion, Antagonize (v1.23) - Rampage lowered Movement Speed but raised Critical Hit & added Counter effect, Might Strikes made all attacks Crits., Collusion stole enmity generated by the specified target, Antagonize essentially worked like Provoke.
Black Mage:
Return -> Burst (v1.23) - Burst was a heavy lightning based nuke.
Add Aspir & Drain spells. (v1.0) - Returned HP/MP respectively to the caster.
Add 4-step combo -> EX: Flare, Freeze, Burst -> Comet
White Mage:
Add Quake, Flood, & Tornado.
Add Regen II
Add Reraise
Bard:
Additional Songs (???)
Add Tenuto (Return 50% MP to Bard)
Add Pianissimo (x2 Song effect on a single target)
Add Ranged damage Limit Break
Dragoon:
Add 2-step combo Jump action EX: Fient -> Heavensfall Dive
Monk:
Return -> Hundred Fists (v1.23) - Increases auto-attack speed dramatically.
Return -> Spinning Heel (v1.23) - Kicking Attacks.
Summoner:
Eck too much to go over.
Ninja:
Add complex Ninjutsu -> Up to 6 inputs -> Increased effects?
Add Ninjutsu spells that grant buffs -> Attack Power, Crit. Rate, etc.
Scholar:
Sublimation -> Toggle Effect: Store Physick HP per cast as Sublimation bonus -> 2nd use heals party for amount of HP stored up-to 3,000HP
Sanctus -> Tether grants Refresh effect & 10% bonus healing for self & target while within range of each other. -
03-03-2015, 06:19 AMLeigaon
Someone mentioned the skill points materia. This reminded me of another thread that someone mentioned they wanted to use FF9 version of things. Combining them both would make a good starting point, but maybe it's too much?
Basically you would have gear that had Skill Traits on it "TP Regen II" or such on a piece of gear, use it and eventually you learn the strait to use. Then with the knowledge of the skill you can put that knowledge into material, which would go into a materia skill slot.
Make high end game gear give some decent skills on gear that could take a while to learn.
If they are going to insist on making larger crowds of mobs for us to take down, rather than making each job into an AoE machine, some sort of mechanic that lets people participate together and create AoE damage. I don't want to say the FF11 term because that puts everything in that mindset. And I don't know what but something.
Someone also had a good idea about creating dungeons that have alternate paths, that make the rest of the run and boss fights harder and much more challenging. This would give more things maybe additional chests or higher currency of some sort. To prevent it being over powered though you would have to have an iLV limit or have the boosts to the dungeons scale by some sort with the party iLV avg.
Hardest part is going to do something that makes every person happy...I wish them luck.
I guess in terms of QoL:
1. Make elemental resistance mean something and have it be usable.
2. Make alchemy items more useful. Not the STR Pot but things that remove silence or blind, reduce those down a great deal in recast time. -
03-03-2015, 06:19 AMLethallinThis would require a core change of the entire dot system, as dots and hots tick for everyone at the same time, presumably to reduce workload on the server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Talia_Hailwind
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03-03-2015, 06:38 AMmyahele
SMN will no longer have battle rez. They'll get rid of egis and replace them with different colored carbuncles
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03-03-2015, 07:23 AMDonjoThere is, in fact, a severe imbalance existing within the game. SE royally screwed up, mostly with encounter design admittedly but with stats in one major area: most jobs have their main stat and their damage stat being exactly the same. Therefore, maximum potential is achieved mostly by maximizing this one stat. Tanks, however, are the odd duck. Their main stat is Vitality but their damage stat is Strength. This alone, though, wouldn't cause the huge problems we're currently experiencing with what is known as the "aggressive tank". All of the following things make it the case that for Tanks and Tanks alone, one cannot unambiguously reach a maximum potential while maxing their main stat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pterois
1. The main stat and damage stat are different.
2. Crafted Accessories allow primary stats(STR, DEX, etc.) to be melded to them in enormous amounts(in relation to their benefit to the character in comparison to the secondaries), which allows Tanks to benefit most from them.
3. Encounters at the endgame are simply not doing enough damage to Tanks, thus allowing them to trade a disproportionate amount of their main stat for Strength. This is further compounded by the fact that many of them are, at these levels of hp, tanking the bosses outside of their tank stance for 90% of the battle. But, that particular diddle is caused by...
4. Single Hit Tank Busters are such an awful way to make an encounter "difficult". They directly propagate the logic of "if I can survive this one hit every time, I have enough HP". SE has already shown they can move past this kind of mechanic by providing examples of both multi-hit tank busters(Bahamut's Claw, Sword Dance, etc.) and encounters without busters but high constant damage(Shiva EX). The single hit buster should be eliminated entirely. Additionally, every single buster in the game should be physical damage. This would make encounters more dynamic and somewhat less formulaic in addition to making parry and block procs more useful.
SE didn't anticipate just how powerful crafted gear was going to become. When people can craft together things on day one of the existence of a raid and meld them to be explicitly better than the stuff the new raid gives, there's a problem with the intended speed of gear progression. Tanks wielding accessories with both STR and VIT on them are the most profited by all of this, which is why I directly targeted them so much in my suggested changes.
-Accessories are class locked: Tanks can't wear Slaying accessories anymore
-Main Stat materia is nerfed + no guaranteed slot on accessories: You're right; people will still try to do this anyway. But, they'll literally cry trying and be able to do nothing but max that other main stat, if there is enough room in the first place for it.
-Vitality determines Tank Damage: Now Tanks are in the same boat as everyone else; maxing the main stat = maximum potential in both mitigation and damage.
-Unmitigated attacks instakill: Stops tanking outside of tank stances. Buuut, this one is probably overkill considering the change above, unless bosses start doing enough damage to really need the extra mitigation.
Now, switching damage from Strength to Vitality for Tanks would solve the problem alone. Now they have to use the gear assigned to them like everyone else. It, however, is the "easy" solution. The alternate solution is "if Tanks can have two primary stats that are so important to them, why can't everyone else?", but that opens the can of worms known as "balance". I'd love to try and suss out possibilities for this as it could make gearing very interesting. -
03-03-2015, 07:29 AMDoctorPepper
Personally would love to see them add unique stats/abilities to hard to obtain gear. Would also love it if they expanded the cross class system so that you can always pick the available abilities from every class so that we can make some hybrid jobs instead of everybody being the exact same.
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03-03-2015, 07:32 AMKrr
Honestly?
The tank str/vit split is probably one of the best design accidents this game has had. Yeah, it's bullcrap that costs WAY too much gil, time, and effort to make for an unfair reward, but it's a good template for future loot and reward design to give players an actual sense of power over their character's abilities. I want more tanks and healers doing interesting stance-dance "exploits" to maximize their contribution, I want more things like Dragoons and Bards clutch-tanking/kiting in emergencies, where skilled and adaptive play defines success, not the ability to perfectly recreate fight scripts or instantly shut down. -
03-03-2015, 07:37 AMInuk9
we need more "WOW THAT'S SO COOL" abilities. Like WHM Holy or BLM Flare. Like I said, MNK needs a single target super damage and high cooldown ability with a lot of punish (like stop TP regen for 20 seconds or something). A super punch or something would be cool.
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03-03-2015, 07:38 AMAirget
SMN and SCH will lv from 50-60 separately. That's my guess on a "crazy game change" lol.
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03-03-2015, 07:39 AMDonjoHm, a design accident. I like that way of putting it. As I said, I'd love to try and brainstorm ways of making "alternative" primary stats viable for other classes the way STR and VIT interact for Tanks, but I'd have no idea where to start. It'd probably involve lots of changing the way the stats work entirely so that benefits can actually spread. One example I always thought of was giving MNK and DRG Dexterity as another stat to stack that provides small boosts to damage but also increases TP regeneration(or alternately reduces TP consumption), as dexterous limbs are not only fast but move efficiently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krr
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03-03-2015, 08:25 AMGiantbaneOh, you were SERIOUS about those accessories changes and weren't just proposing CRAZY things that SE might do to piss off their players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
Those changes to accessories are AWFUL
GOD
F)*#$@#$
AWFUL
(i'm sorry if that's a little harsh, but seriously, I cannot emphasize how much I do not like these changes)
All it does is serve to take an already terrible overmelding system (that's only benefit is that it's less terrible than the 1.0 overmelding system, but it still sucks) and make it worse by removing guaranteed slots. They've already nerfed the crafted accessories by taking a secondary stat off them, if anything they should add in a 2nd guaranteed slot to the accessories now that they've been nerfed. For better or worse, these accessories are now designed and balanced around being max melded, so it only makes sense to ease the very frustrating and unfun aspect of getting there. Making the accessories more random and frustrating to meld is absolutely no way to fix the problem at all.
Seriously, the whole stat system and how it relates to materia is screwy. Elemental materia are completely pointless. Main stat materia are ONLY good on accessories (and really, only STR/VIT have much if any purpose, DEX/MND/INT are borderline useless too), and you pretty much want to kill that off. -
03-03-2015, 08:33 AMSlappahAs someone who mained a warlock in wow and was extremely serious about it, in both a hardcore raid environment and high ranked PvP environments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlady
I can promise you 100% that summoner plays absolutely nothing like wows warlock besides the fact that you have dots you put on mobs, and have a pet. -
03-03-2015, 08:39 AMAshkendorThe only people that I see that may be confused about what accessories to wear are newbies that don't really understand how their stats work yet. I don't see what imbalances you're talking about, honestly. o.OQuote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
Yeah... making it so the target gets one shotted unless they're mitigating is overdoing it a bit.Quote:
The only increased difficulty here is a harsher benefit for losing hate... which some people desperately need if they're ever going to grow as tanks and some DPS need in order to learn that aggro is actually a thing that exists. This point, though, primarily serves one purpose and one purpose alone: preventing Tanks from "tanking" something outside of the Tank Stance while in party based content.
I honestly don't see why there's such a problem with tanking things in Sword Oath if you can hold aggro.
Not necessarily. If MT has a significantly better weapon than the OT, or if their gear is about the same and OT is out of their tank stance, it's not too hard for the MT to keep aggro while the OT puts some DPS on.Quote:
If the MT is full VIT and the OT is a Paladin in full Strength, that MT is going to lose hate to the Paladin. But, this is really just another method of discouraging tanking outside of the proper stance.
You seem to have a real problem with non-DPS classes wanting to add some DPS... -.-Quote:
The idea is that if you slip into the stance while the fairy is already out, the healing potency decrease hits the fairy right then and there
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03-03-2015, 09:16 AMDonjo1. I never said anything about SE making changes intended to piss people off or posters in this thread only submitting ideas they wouldn't like to see implemented. I'm not quite sure where you got that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantbane
2. Crafted Accessories themselves are awful for game balance.
3. The only other way to address the problem is to eliminate crafted accessories from the game entirely or make main stat materia either non-existent or nigh-useless. At least this way the most persistent can make their god piece eventually.
4. Yeah, that's why it needs an entire rework. It's so hopelessly broken that it's better off removed than existing in such a state.
1. I explained the imbalance a few posts ago. I hope it's pretty clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
2. Yeah, possibly, especially if Tanks are forced to stack VIT.
3. Sure, play around with whatever you want in the dungeons. That's all fine and dandy because they're supposed to be facerolls. In Coil, being out of your Tank Stance should always be nigh suicide. The ways people are doing the "hardest" encounters exposes so many mistakes in encounter design it's not even funny.
4. As I said, if the OT is a Paladin and has significantly more strength than the MT, it's very possible to steal hate because the only thing a Pally can do to DPS as OT is Halone.
5. Not necessarily. What I'm sniping at with the Cleric Stance change is that Scholars can add their DPS far more easily than a WHM can because of their fairy healing at 100% throughput while they're in Cleric Stance. If that is removed, they're on equal ground in this regard. Regarding the Tanks, it's that the current tank meta exposes massive failures in stat and encounter design that brutally killing the aggressive tank would be a side effect of fixing. -
03-03-2015, 09:31 AMNatsunoThen they'll like my crazy idea! Scrap everything (again), and turn this into FFXI-2 lol :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vlady
(but srsly, hands off smn ;p)
Quoted for truth. In fact, not all of the 3 specs specialize in DoT damage either. >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Slappah
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03-03-2015, 09:36 AMKaren_Cerfrumos
Is this a spot-a-person-who-doesn't-really-raid thread?
Awful, awful ideas.
Crafted gear isn't superior to the top tome/raid gear available. The fact that it allows to progress faster however is a good thing. It allows players even if unintentionally to find unconventional ways to tackle content, overcome it through the use of mechanics outside of the actual battling. This makes the game feel whole. If you want all balance all the time might as well remove all the gear and preset all the stats. That's gonna be fun.
Scholars and White Mages are NOT gonna be on equal ground if you gimp the fairy through Cleric Stance because White Mages have Regen. Also Scholars tend to DPS more not only because of the fairy but because they have easier ways to restore MP and a super useful tool called Lustrate.
(Also no, it doesn't matter if you summon the fairy while in Cleric Stance, her stats aren't altered)
Two-tanking is already properly enforced in FCOB, very creatively, by multiple mechanics. There's no need for every enemy move to be a tankbuster.
Nobody likes to fight trash. Especially not when the raid goes on farm. The content is built around the idea of repeatability and pretending trash is anything but a minute obstacle is just gonna get on people's nerves. Trash right now is used to wake people up for the raid essentially and that's a pretty good use. -
03-03-2015, 09:45 AMAshkendorWhat you need to remember is that the people tanking FCoB in Sword Oath are people that are pretty much already overgeared for FCoB and have the timing on the fights down pat by virtue of the fact that they have the turns on farm. People that are still progressing through FCoB are most likely using their tanking stances as normal. How much time you spend in your tanking stance depends on the comfort level of your healers in whatever content you're in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
One word: Holy. White mage can deal massive damage AND reduce tank damage in one fell swoop. WHM is better for mass pulls, while Scholar excels at single target DPS (I rarely leave cleric stance on a lot of trials).Quote:
5. Not necessarily. What I'm sniping at with the Cleric Stance change is that Scholars can add their DPS far more easily than a WHM can because of their fairy healing at 100% throughput while they're in Cleric Stance. If that is removed, they're on equal ground in this regard.
They seem pretty even to me when you take that into account.
Honestly, I don't get what you have against the "aggressive tank" meta. It makes playing tanks a lot more fun. Probably the worst part about playing a tank is the feeling of utter futility when it comes to solo play. Everything is a battle of attrition - you mayaswell just leave yourself on autoattack and go afk for all the fun you're having dealing 100-200 damage at a time with your skills. Sure, you aren't really killable but neither is whatever you're fighting. Let's face it, mobs in the overworld aren't really even a threat for squisher classes anyway so all you're doing is slowing yourself down if you run around in a fending set.Quote:
Regarding the Tanks, it's that the current tank meta exposes massive failures in stat and encounter design that brutally killing the aggressive tank is just one step in resolving.
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03-03-2015, 09:52 AMGiantbaneNo I just assumed that's what you meant, given that's all those changes accomplish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
Crafted items are super narrow in their usefulness. Only crafted accessories are really decent for anything and those are already nerfed in their usefulness by both removing the 3rd stat and the fact that they get released a full patch cycle after everything else does.Quote:
2. Crafted Accessories themselves are awful for game balance.
3. The only other way to address the problem is to eliminate crafted accessories from the game entirely or make main stat materia either non-existent or nigh-useless. At least this way the most persistent can make their god piece eventually.
4. Yeah, that's why it needs an entire rework. It's so hopelessly broken that it's better off removed than existing in such a state.
The "problem" is very limited to the highest tier of guilds. "Fixing" the problem by destroying crafted items is no way to fix it.
A better solution would be to put VIT on all accessories and then balance around that so that there's not so much discrepancy between the two.
Even better, give tanks another secondary stat that actually reduces incoming damage in some way and/or make parry better so that tanks WANT to stack defensive stats, instead of ignoring them like they often do currently.