BLM DPS!!!

i think the DPS of BLM is depend on how many firestarter(Fire III bonus) or thunder bonus that u got in fight.
and the question is how to get many many firestater and thunder bonus .... or what ur guys rotation to get that ?

I see you are a lalafell.

Sacrifice yourself and be Bahamut Prime's McNuggets, you will get your RNG blessing and procs.

But in all honestly procs are really RNG based, you can't do shit about it. But you can probably stack more crit if you like because if your other hits doesn't crit, even with procs your DPS still takes a dent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teeratong

i think the DPS of BLM is depend on how many firestarter(Fire III bonus) or thunder bonus that u got in fight.
and the question is how to get many many firestater and thunder bonus .... or what ur guys rotation to get that ?

---

Procs help. But in the worst case scenario of zero procs, a Black Mage is about fitting as much proper Astral Fire use as possible. Just enough Piety between stats, party bonuses, and food to fit that last Fire -> Blizzard III -> Thunder II. As much spell speed as possible to go through your rotation as quick as you can, since you should theoretically never have any MP issues once your rotation is down. Free casts can help you, but NOTHING about your MP costs will change from this point on, so it's literally a game of number crunching.
seriously, there's a topic on this with tons of resources available for you to look at.

Learn to weave @last fire. 30% chance u will get extra Fire3 in Astral3 instead of an extra Fire3 in Astral1 (after transpose after last Umbral3 tick)

I disagree with using transpose on a routine basis. In fact you should save it for that moment you screw up or crit a flare or two. The truly best way to maximize your DPS is to learn the fight. Know when and how far to move. If you are constantly readjusting without being forced to or running too far and back you are wasting time. Take Shiva for instance, on the very first AOE in sword form how many ppl do you see moving? 2 or 3 right? There's no need. Your healers can/should be able to handle a minor heal and you should keep casting & take the hit. Simple adjustment in mechanics can easily raise your DPS output 50 points. I never rely on RNG and neither do end game raiders. This is why people do a 5 minute run with BLMs on a striking dummy to gauge TOTAL DPS output. My standard rotation for single target boss: Thunder II, Fire III, Fire I (to 350ish MP; fight determines when I cast next ability) Blizzard III Thunder II rinse repeat.

(2/2) Use all procs at end of rotation (if it won't time out by then). Flares always at end of rotation unless a crit will finish boss/mob. Transpose saved for flare/oh crap moment. You will usually output more DPS damage by avoiding flares on single target bosses and using your rotation instead. By using Thunder II you save cast time and the additional OTE (over time effect) increases your damage as well. Keep in mind, each fight is different and should be handled according to boss health, phase, and total number of adds/mobs etc.

I don't know what Kael_Raiju means by using all procs at end of rotation, but that don't make any sense. You want to use your procs as soon as you get them. If you hold on to procs, you are potentially missing opportunities for more procs. The only time you should be holding on to procs are for movement purposes. For example: You get a proc but you know there is going to be an aoe in 3-5 seconds. Hold on to it so you can pop it while you are moving. As others have said, the biggest thing for BLMs is learning the fights. In order to maximize DPS, its all about up-time which requires as little movement as possible. If you are in a static, you should be coordinating with your group that you will not be in charge of movement heavy mechanics and if AOEs require a stacked group to spread out, you should be standing still while everyone else spreads away from you. Another thing is when to use transpose. It is my opinion that you should not be using your transpose for flares unless there are multiple targets. Don't use flare on a single target unless you have swiftcast/convert available. I specifically hold my transposes for when I get a fire proc while switching into Umbral Ice. So while I'm casting my thunder I/II, if I have a fire proc sitting there, I will transpose and the hit Fire III. This way you are already in Astral Fire and your Proc does 1100ish damage instead of 500.

I save my procs because you get a slight lull time by using them in the middle of your rotation. By continuing the rotation with Astral Fire III active and kicking out Fire I's I have noticed that my DPS increases when procs are used at the end. I'm not going to sit here and claim that what I do works for everyone else by any means. I'm comfortable with my rotation and I'm always behind the tank in hate regardless of fight. To me that's enough to justify to myself that what I'm doing works for me.

BLM is ultimately a situational class when you need to keep focus on your balances while watching where your standing and what procs. Knowing how much fuel is left in the tank for the switch is key as well as knowing when to switch from astral to umbral. In an optimal setting you can always bleed your mana low on fires but if your moving out of an AoE and moving back in you need to be ready to cast blizzard III just to keep the tempo alive, regardless of mana position. That and I don't bother with Thunder II ever since that's an extra button on my hot at (ps4 controller) that I don't need. Thunder III is just fine. <---that's just MY preference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tanthalus

Thunder III is just fine. <---that's just MY preference.

---

Just curious if you've considered the cast time of Thunder III. After Blizzard III, by the time you get Thunder III off your MP is full and there's usually a good second or two there before you can cast Fire III. Thunder II avoids that lull. Also, Thunder II falls off right when your rotation is ready to cast another Thunder II. Thunder III will show an additional few seconds which aren't needed as you'll be casting another Thunder. This is what I've noticed. I do use Thunder III to start a fight/phase though and I'm PC with a Naga mouse so that is a bit of a difference as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garotte14

I don't know what Kael_Raiju means by using all procs at end of rotation, but that don't make any sense. You want to use your procs as soon as you get them. If you hold on to procs, you are potentially missing opportunities for more procs. The only time you should be holding on to procs are for movement purposes.

---

^^This all the way.

Thunder III -> Fire III -> Fire [Raging Strikes] -> Fire [Int Pot/Quelling Strikes] -> Fire [Quelling strikes(if using pot)] -> Fire -> Fire -> Blizzard III -> Thunder I(!! Thunder I is the best DPS) -> Blizzard I [Transpose(if Fireproc)] -> Fire III -> etc.

You use the buffs between Fire's, because it will give you time to see if you get a Fire proc.

Always use Thunder I, except for opening attack, don't listen to people who say Thunder II is better. If you get an early MP tick, skip Blizzard I and go for Fire III directly, unless if you have a Fire proc on.

All this is to maximize your DPS though, the majority of your DPS will come from knowing the fights and how to get off as many spells as possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garotte14

I don't know what Kael_Raiju means by using all procs at end of rotation, but that don't make any sense. You want to use your procs as soon as you get them. If you hold on to procs, you are potentially missing opportunities for more procs. The only time you should be holding on to procs are for movement purposes. For example: You get a proc but you know there is going to be an aoe in 3-5 seconds. Hold on to it so you can pop it while you are moving. As others have said, the biggest thing for BLMs is learning the fights. In order to maximize DPS, its all about up-time which requires as little movement as possible. If you are in a static, you should be coordinating with your group that you will not be in charge of movement heavy mechanics and if AOEs require a stacked group to spread out, you should be standing still while everyone else spreads away from you. Another thing is when to use transpose. It is my opinion that you should not be using your transpose for flares unless there are multiple targets. Don't use flare on a single target unless you have swiftcast/convert available. I specifically hold my transposes for when I get a fire proc while switching into Umbral Ice. So while I'm casting my thunder I/II, if I have a fire proc sitting there, I will transpose and the hit Fire III. This way you are already in Astral Fire and your Proc does 1100ish damage instead of 500.

---

Holding off on Thundercloud isn't wrong at times...

Forgot to mention that above. You should always use Thunder III(proc) after a Fire... Unless you're in Umbral and have to reapply thunder dot.

If you for example have a fire proc and a thunder proc at the same time, don't go Fire III(proc) -> Thunder III(proc)... Go Fire III(proc) -> Fire -> Thunder III(proc)

Any thoughts on how we can compare the two in terms of numbers we could post here? I know I'm not the only one who uses the rotation I've described. I have yet to find someone running a different rotation able to outpace my numbers. Regardless of either rotation, neither will matter if you don't know the mechanics of the fight as I stated earlier. You HAVE to know when to flare, when to Fire II, when to move while casting, when to swiftcast, when to transpose/convert, manawall/ward. All of this plays into your ability to effectively DPS.

I would postulate that between these two rotations in discussion you won't see much of a difference in total numbers. Not enough to not do one or the other as they are basically the same minus when procs are used/not used. Now, if you're flaring at the beginning of a full MP bar I think we could all easily state that you'll have issues.

I do agree that you shouldn't be using Thunder III unless its a proc. The cast time is way too long and more often than not, you will be clipping your thunder ticks anyways which means you aren't even getting the full effect of that DoT. Of course I will never tell anyone how to play, because its their game that they pay for, but I jus try my best to offer advice to increase your play. The best times to use Thunder III are procs of course, and also when you have raging strikes and convert available. Since you will be adding a flare and an extra fire into that rotation, it takes slightly longer. So you are getting the most out of your extra thunder ticks. As far as PS4 controllers and hot bar limitations, I completely understand as I'm a PS4 player as well. But there is a way around that. There is an option called expanded controller layouts or something which allows you to hold L2+R2 together to bring up another hot bar that you set yourself. This gives you access to 8 other abilities without having to switch hot bars and switch back. If you are already hold R2 for example for your main attacks, just hold L2 along with it to access your other abilities and then let go of L2 to return. If you can master this, it is extremely useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craiger

Thunder III -> Fire III -> Fire [Raging Strikes] -> Fire [Int Pot/Quelling Strikes] -> Fire [Quelling strikes(if using pot)] -> Fire -> Fire -> Blizzard III -> Thunder I(!! Thunder I is the best DPS) -> Blizzard I [Transpose(if Fireproc)] -> Fire III -> etc.

---

no swiftcast flare-->convert-->fire 1-->bliz III to go with the int pot and raging strikes?

You all should just go check out this document done with real maths, not just assumptions (no offense).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DVkM1E#gid=117

First off, Open document, go to Calculator tab, check the dps number (says "DPS here")... The one with highest DPS (except some crazy rotations that doesn't work), is Thunder I -> Blizzard I -> Fire III as standard umbral rotation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

no swiftcast flare-->convert-->fire 1-->bliz III to go with the int pot and raging strikes?

---

Yes, sorry forgot... Thanks for pointing out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craiger

You use the buffs between Fire's, because it will give you time to see if you get a Fire proc.

Always use Thunder I, except for opening attack, don't listen to people who say Thunder II is better. If you get an early MP tick, skip Blizzard I and go for Fire III directly, unless if you have a Fire proc on.

---

I do use Thunder I. Thunder II isn't even on my hot bar. I have tested this multiple times and more often than not, Thunder 1 is a slight DPS boost as opposed to Thunder II. Either that or they are dead even with only a difference of 2-4 DPS. I prefer Thunder I because of the shortened cast time. I completely understand about weaving as I do use it myself when I have lethargy and other buffs available. It does benefit me in most cases.

Practice and test and see what you find works best for you.

There is a lot of bad info around about how do max DPS on BLM (a fair bit in this thread imo too ;D), but there are some useful things here and there.

Most useful tip I've seen anyone post is "make sure to always be casting".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kael_Raiju

I save my procs because you get a slight lull time by using them in the middle of your rotation. By continuing the rotation with Astral Fire III active and kicking out Fire I's I have noticed that my DPS increases when procs are used at the end. I'm not going to sit here and claim that what I do works for everyone else by any means. I'm comfortable with my rotation and I'm always behind the tank in hate regardless of fight. To me that's enough to justify to myself that what I'm doing works for me.

---

What do you mean there's a "slight lull time" when usng procs in the middle of your rotation? They have the same recast time as a regular fire I, and have higher potency. You're losing out on potential DPS if you aren't popping Fire III whenever firestarter is up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kael_Raiju

I save my procs because you get a slight lull time by using them in the middle of your rotation. By continuing the rotation with Astral Fire III active and kicking out Fire I's I have noticed that my DPS increases when procs are used at the end.

---

Of course you can do whatever you feel comfortable with. My only advice is that your reasoning is incorrect. There are no "lull times" in using a proc. The recast time is the exact same as Fire I. Only difference is the proc is instant cast. You wait the exact same amount of time if you were to use a Fire 1. If you can cast 5 Fire 1s in a single Astral Fire set, and you get 1 proc that you hold till the end, you add 1 extra fire cast. If you cast a proc immediately after you get it, you could potentially get 2-3 Fire III procs. This is not a slight boost in DPS, this is a huge boost. I won't say your numbers are bad cause I don't know them, but I am telling you that they could be much better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kael_Raiju

Just curious if you've considered the cast time of Thunder III. After Blizzard III, by the time you get Thunder III off your MP is full and there's usually a good second or two there before you can cast Fire III. Thunder II avoids that lull. Also, Thunder II falls off right when your rotation is ready to cast another Thunder II. Thunder III will show an additional few seconds which aren't needed as you'll be casting another Thunder. This is what I've noticed. I do use Thunder III to start a fight/phase though and I'm PC with a Naga mouse so that is a bit of a difference as well.

---

Yep and I've actually tried to implement Thunder II into my rote but the difference was almost non existent so I went back with what I like.
That and I always get my first Thunder off with a quickcast and hope to ride the procs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garotte14

There are no "lull times" in using a proc. The recast time is the exact same as Fire I.

---

When you hit your proc your character literally pauses and stands there. Maybe this is the game's way of ensuring you only get a damage increase on a proc but to me it should be insta cast and the ability to start casting your next Fire I without any pause. I can't be the only one who notices this. Either way... I typically save my procs for the sole purpose of movement. I'm not saying I never cast them in the middle of my rotation but my rotation is heavily reliant on the boss we're fighting. Every cast is based on the current situation. I never stick STRICTLY to any rotation. I.E. Boss is about to jump, there will be an AOE I'm at 1800MP, time to cast a Flare and hope for a great crit. This would be a good example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kael_Raiju

snip...

---

The reason you just stand there is because it's cast instantly, but it is still on the GCD. A regular fire I spends that GCD casting, whereas a Fire III proc goes off instantly and then gives you the cooldown after, like DoW skills. There are times where it might be better to hold on to it, but otherwise you should cast it as soon as possible.

I saw people saying "if you have thundercloud proc + first starter proc -> Fire III - > Fire I -> Thunder III "

Please explain that please.

Because from my reasoning, since thunder cloud proc could happen every 3 sedond you have thunder applied on a target(s) so if you don't use it as soon as possible (assuming no movement required anytime soon, so no need to save it) you could potentionally loose a proc because you waited longer than 3 sec and got 2 thunder procs in row.

So, why would "Fire III -> (potentially losing a thunder proc) Fire I -> (potentionally losing a thunder proc, but could get a new fire proc) [Fire proc came so Fire III(based on the earlier Fire III procs > Fire I > Thunder III we're going to use fire I again](potentionally losing a thunder proc) -> Thunder III" be better than "Thunder III ->(potentionally a thunder proc) Fire III -> (potentionally a thunder proc) Fire I" if you are in a situation where you have both procs up.

Note: if you'd got the thunder proc right after you used thunder III proc, you'll already be casting your Fire III/Fire I(assuming you're following the "always be casting" guideline) before it registers to you, so you're mostlikely not going to be doing Thunder III -> Thunder III -> Thunder III and then losing your AF III stack and thus fucling up your rotation.

Really thundercloud proc should take priority over firestarter. Also i really am not certain of those of you starting off with T3, just curious and has Puro crunched numbers with it?
I rather only use T3 when i get thundercloud in those situations. Or at times were i get some lag and such and mana does not fill up after Ice 3, then the cast time of T3 allows mana to be refilled by then

To get great and sustainable DPS, >>> ABC <<<

Always
Be
Casting

Firestarter and thundercloud procs are nice and definitely help, but you generate NO DPS if you aren't casting anything. Thundercloud procs come from a 5% chance on a DoT, not much we can do to control that one, RNGeesus owns it.

Firestarter is a 40% chance to activate on a successful hit. There are times in my astral rotation where I have gotten 4/5 firestarter procs, and others where i have gotten nothing or just 1. Accuracy might help here, due to the wording of successful hit. Crit is nice as if and when it does pop you have a good chance of getting the big numbaz on it. I usually don't Raging Strikes until after the first fire is cast when in astral, cos I want that proc, if it does happen right away to be juicy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maero

Really thundercloud proc should take priority over firestarter. Also i really am not certain of those of you starting off with T3, just curious and has Puro crunched numbers with it?
I rather only use T3 when i get thundercloud in those situations. Or at times were i get some lag and such and mana does not fill up after Ice 3, then the cast time of T3 allows mana to be refilled by then

---

The reason most ppl start off with T3 for their opener is because of the extended DoT time. This allows you to get off your Swiftcast/Flare/Convert/Fire1 while the Dot is still ticking. For example if you were to use T1 or T2, it will fall off before the end of your opener giving you a few seconds where thunder is not ticking. At least thats what I think. I personally do not start off with thunder at all. I just start with Fire3>Raging Strikes>Fire1, etc. With not casting a Thunder spell, it allows me to get an extra fire spell off with the Raging Strikes buff. This is just my preferred method.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maero

Really thundercloud proc should take priority over firestarter. Also i really am not certain of those of you starting off with T3, just curious and has Puro crunched numbers with it?
I rather only use T3 when i get thundercloud in those situations. Or at times were i get some lag and such and mana does not fill up after Ice 3, then the cast time of T3 allows mana to be refilled by then

---

I disagree slightly, but only with thundercloud procs taking priority. You have 12 secs to use it. When it pops I toss out a fire, most time it procs(or has procced same time or shortly close to thundercloud). SO usually I go, Firestarter > Fire (if procs use again) > Thundercloud.

I only go this way due to Fire having a larger proc rate.

I agree with not starting with T3. Should be using T2 most of the time to start if you start with it. The difference is only 3 secs on duration and the initial difference of 10 potency. Waste of MP for little gain, and longer cast time keeping you from entering AF.

But again just my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maero

Really thundercloud proc should take priority over firestarter. Also i really am not certain of those of you starting off with T3, just curious and has Puro crunched numbers with it?
I rather only use T3 when i get thundercloud in those situations. Or at times were i get some lag and such and mana does not fill up after Ice 3, then the cast time of T3 allows mana to be refilled by then

---

The DPS difference between using thundercloud proc right away and weaving it, is minimal, as is the difference between starting rotation.

The real difference between BLM's is how people handle their movement, while dealing with boss mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maero

Really thundercloud proc should take priority over firestarter. Also i really am not certain of those of you starting off with T3, just curious and has Puro crunched numbers with it?
I rather only use T3 when i get thundercloud in those situations. Or at times were i get some lag and such and mana does not fill up after Ice 3, then the cast time of T3 allows mana to be refilled by then

---

If you start with T3 you might not have the mp to F1x5 so you'd dps on your starting Rotation before next AF 3 (especially if you are using RS+ pot)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AniCelestine

If you start with T3 you might not have the mp to F1x5 so you'd dps on your starting Rotation before next AF 3 (especially if you are using RS+ pot)

---

I d'ont start off with t3, lol
T2 is usually what i start off with

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

The DPS difference between using thundercloud proc right away and weaving it, is minimal, as is the difference between starting rotation.

The real difference between BLM's is how people handle their movement, while dealing with boss mechanics.

---

Actually i do not use thundercloud as soon as it procs, if there is to be movement i save it for that, otherwise i would maybe cast a fire or 2 before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maero

I d'ont start off with t3, lol
T2 is usually what i start off with

---

I wasn't aiming it at you, but I didn't feel like thinking how to say it in " if one was to use..." passive, because I mostly forget it mid post and confuse people with using "one" and "you" in same context.

All the min-maxing in the world doesn't mean squat if a BLM doesn't excel at balancing movement and casting. I've seen a few who have optimized their gear and rotations to the nth degree and yet have a difficult time skating.

Glad that some good BLM players have come in to clean up this topic. There's a lot of misinformation in the first couple pages.

/my2cents

BLM is my 3rd Class, and actually i try to get some 120/130 Gear.

But i'm not sure which 2nd Stats I should focus now.
I read that i raise my dps with spellspeed (cause endless mp), but i just can't believe that this is the only thing to go for :D
How much crit do you actually prefer? about 500? 550? Does it matter at all?
How much do determination improve dps, is it worth to go for?

I know how to play BLM, but with the current gear i stuck a bit what it's worth to go for...

FCoB gear is currently not possible i think, cause of low dropchance and there are main smn/2nd blm). (blm is only my 3rd class)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AniCelestine

I saw people saying "if you have thundercloud proc + first starter proc -> Fire III - > Fire I -> Thunder III "

Please explain that please.

---

None of the replies for this have really mentioned the true benefit, so let me tell you that it's for the purpose of fire-weaving the next Fire I using the Thundercloud proc.

Thundercloud is the only ability that you can fire-weave with no dps loss if it fails, and the potential of gaining an additional GCD via a non-wasted Firestarter proc is much greater than throwing out the Thundercloud immediately on the off-chance of getting another (5%)proc within your next 2 GCDs.

Blm is that one class that everyone will have their own set way of doing things., that's the beauty of blm, no two blm are alike.

Our only golden rule is always be casting.

Ofc that doesn't mean just cast blizzard 3, blizzard 2 and freeze, because you think you're an ice mage...you could but....a lot of pissed off people :x


As for thundercloud procs I've gotten it 3 times in a row, it's just pure rng, sometimes you may not see any during a fight, sometimes you'll see multiple back to back or other second. I get a few during long fights I'm not sure if it's just lucky or %4 is more like 10-15% or idk.

Firestater however, if you don't get at least 8-10 procs on a decent length fight....well god just hates you. 40% is pretty damn high.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arg0n

BLM is my 3rd Class, and actually i try to get some 120/130 Gear.

But i'm not sure which 2nd Stats I should focus now.
I read that i raise my dps with spellspeed (cause endless mp), but i just can't believe that this is the only thing to go for :D
How much crit do you actually prefer? about 500? 550? Does it matter at all?
How much do determination improve dps, is it worth to go for?

I know how to play BLM, but with the current gear i stuck a bit what it's worth to go for...

FCoB gear is currently not possible i think, cause of low dropchance and there are main smn/2nd blm). (blm is only my 3rd class)

---

I cannot speak for all but I believe the accepted norm for Primaries is INT and CRIT. Acc is kind of natural on most pieces we get. Can fill in gaps if needed. Then it splits. Either stack more CRIT and DET, or go for SS.

SS is good, but your timings start to get out of wack for umbral phases etc. If you don't balance in some ACC with more CRIT, then, well; it doesn't matter how hard you COULD hit for if you aren't hitting it at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dextro

None of the replies for this have really mentioned the true benefit, so let me tell you that it's for the purpose of fire-weaving the next Fire I using the Thundercloud proc.

Thundercloud is the only off-GCD ability that you can fire-weave with no dps loss if it fails, and the potential of gaining an additional GCD via a non-wasted Firestarter proc is much greater than throwing out the Thundercloud immediately on the off-chance of getting another (5%)proc within your next 2 GCDs.

---

That makes alot sense, haven't thought of it that way. And yeah, thundercloud has really low rate ( and loses on dmg vs fire III if I remember right), thanks for clearing that one out!