Idea regarding A & S Rank Hunts

I've looked in many threads here in this section and none have appeared to suggest what I am about to suggest regarding hunts (Specifically A & S Rank hunts). I realized that I will not be heard where I posted my suggestion, nor would receive proper feedback on it because it was a thread where people were pretty much talking about pulling early etc and it seemed a tad heated lol. So here is what I was suggesting:

What if they made A & S hunts an instance.

A portal would replace the monster at the hunts spawn location. Say once the portal is discovered by a player, a message to all players in the zone would appear on their screen (Orange for A Rank and Red for S) to alert all players that a hunt has been discovered. Once the location is discovered a timer will then begin counting down, say 5-8 minutes), which would allow plenty of time for others to get to the location.

Those that make it there before the others would be taken to the zone where they will be in a lockout circle, until the timer runs out. Once the timer hits 0, the fight commences. The hunts HP should scale to the amount of players that showed up for the instance.

Thoughts?

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Updated to: As soon as the hunt is discovered a lockout circle is placed on the monster for a 2-4 minute period and sends a message to all players on the map (Color based on rank) where the creature spawned to allow time for people to notify groups and get to the location.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

... pretty much talking about pulling early etc ...Thoughts?

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By reviewing current situation, I think the idea just changes "pulling early" to "discovering early" ^^;

I just don't understand why they (SE) don't make the S & A ranks more like the Behemoth and Odin fights with a big pool of HP and some kick ass attacks. I also think a problem with the Hunts at the moment is the scarcity of S Ranks and to a degree the A ranks. You miss an S rank well that's it for quite a while and considering it has so low a HP pool it increases it's "desirability" for everyone. My only interest with Hunts is to get Alexandrites or at least get me a couple more but that is now so difficult to do since the seals have been increased AND there is Carbon Twine available.

Putting so many items into one type of event just adds more issues to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

By reviewing current situation, I think the idea just changes "pulling early" to "discovering early" ^^;

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I disagree. What I am referring to is that once the monster is spotted, that it is locked out immediately for about 5-8 minutes. The game generates a message to all players in that zone, that way people can alert their LS's FC or friends, so that they can get to the location before the time runs out. That way no one can complain about "early pulls." If you did not get there by the time the timer gets to zero, that's really your fault as if you think about 5-8 minutes is ALOT of time to allow players to get there to participate.

Anyone who would complain about discovering early with this change would seriously need mental help...

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Originally Posted by VTanner

I just don't understand why they (SE) don't make the S & A ranks more like the Behemoth and Odin fights with a big pool of HP and some kick ass attacks. I also think a problem with the Hunts at the moment is the scarcity of S Ranks and to a degree the A ranks. You miss an S rank well that's it for quite a while and considering it has so low a HP pool it increases it's "desirability" for everyone. My only interest with Hunts is to get Alexandrites or at least get me a couple more but that is now so difficult to do since the seals have been increased AND there is Carbon Twine available.

Putting so many items into one type of event just adds more issues to be honest.

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I'd even like to see this too, but it would require alot more work to each hunt than what I am suggesting.

Why are people so afraid of competition? No. I do not like this idea.

People have been begging for open world fights since before launch. This is SE's (imo failed) attempt to attempt to give them some. Some people really enjoy the idea of "I found it first and now I get to kill it and reap the rewards." And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

SE take out logs so this nonsense stop!!

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Originally Posted by Cadmar

Why are people so afraid of competition? No. I do not like this idea.

People have been begging for open world fights since before launch. This is SE's (imo failed) attempt to attempt to give them some. Some people really enjoy the idea of "I found it first and now I get to kill it and reap the rewards." And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

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It's not about competition. It's apparent that you just like conflict and confrontation. You have nothing constructive to add (which is apparent) and that's fine. But You strike me as one that would cry on shout when people did not wait for you on hunts.

It's not about I found it first. If it was the case you'd be able to solo it... get off your high horse man. To further that you insult SE's "failed" approach but would rather see the failed idea continue rather than work towards something that could be good for all...

Yeh VERY productive of you... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

It's not about competition. It's apparent that you just like conflict and confrontation. If you have nothing constructive to add (which is apparent) and that's fine. But You strike me as one that would cry on shout when people did not wait for you on hunts.

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So.. I offer you my opinion.. which you asked for. And you respond with insults and accusations about my character? Seems rather uncalled for. That's like me saying that you are full of yourself for having your own quote as your signature.

If you don't want opinions that conflict with your own, then don't ask for "Thoughts?"

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Originally Posted by Cadmar

So.. I offer you my opinion.. which you asked for. And you respond with insults and accusations about my character? Seems rather uncalled for. That's like me saying that you are full of yourself for having your own quote as your signature.

If you don't want opinions that conflict with your own, then don't ask for "Thoughts?"

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I quote it for elitists that make everything about raids when dungeons and other content is in discussion. And that would be your opinion of me and I honestly would not care if you said that tbqf.

As for Thoughts. That was asking for input. Rather than insult SE's fail attempts, how about adding how they could better it vs a "no leave as is it's fine" approach? Especially, after you yourself said it's failed.

THAT'S what I am saying.

I did not insult your character, at least that was not my intent. I merely painted a picture of how I personally view you based on your response.

Nice try though...

here is the problem with the 5-8 minute spawn timer. I discover this because I am actively scouting. I have to go in and waste 8 minutes waiting on everyone to show up. Johnny Slacker says I can wait 5 minutes and go. Then we have the same problem, 50 people showing up in the last 60 seconds of the window, causing slow load times and people QQing about not getting max credits.

While the idea is valid, it will not solve the problem.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

...snip... Once the location is discovered a timer will then begin counting down, say 5-8 minutes)...snip...

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Sounds good. I think it should be 2-3 minutes? 5-8 minutes seems a little long is all.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

...snip... The hunts HP should scale to the amount of players that showed up for the instance...snip...

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Sounds appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

...snip... but it would require alot more work to each hunt than what I am suggesting.

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I agree. What you are suggesting would consume very little development time. I think they could've been designed a little better, but given what we have, your suggestion smooths off the rough edges of the design so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Cadmar

Why are people so afraid of competition?

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I don't know. BUT, there's a big difference between competition and "no compete". With the cheater programs available, true hunters aren't able to claim their reward properly at times....or so I've read.

Just a 2 min protection buff, against damage on each A/S mobs would do.

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Originally Posted by Cadmar

Why are people so afraid of competition? No. I do not like this idea.

People have been begging for open world fights since before launch. This is SE's (imo failed) attempt to attempt to give them some. Some people really enjoy the idea of "I found it first and now I get to kill it and reap the rewards." And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

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The problem is that theses mobs die in 1 second, not that anyone in particular hit it first. Seriously. It's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

I disagree. What I am referring to is that once the monster is spotted, that it is locked out immediately for about 5-8 minutes. The game generates a message to all players in that zone, that way people can alert their LS's FC or friends, so that they can get to the location before the time runs out. That way no one can complain about "early pulls." If you did not get there by the time the timer gets to zero, that's really your fault as if you think about 5-8 minutes is ALOT of time to allow players to get there to participate.

Anyone who would complain about discovering early with this change would seriously need mental help...

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Just brain storming, for example, when right after a mob is discovered, if someone spotted another mark, then players joined the first mark may miss the second mark, and then they may blame the player who triggered the second mark as "discovering-early"

A/S ranks act like wildskeeper reives from ffxi (le gasp)? Just my two gil but i had alot of fun and people worked together to bring it down.

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Originally Posted by ColdHearted

_snip-

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Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

-snip-

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Yes the timer could be reduced to 2-4 minutes (4 minutes being max). I just started the thread as a ROUGH idea. Will it need tweaks? Sure, but imho it's a fantastic idea. In reviewing what I wrote I would just change it to the hunt having the lock out circle for that time frame vs being escorted somewhere else. That would make more sense. Just lockout the hunt once discovered for the allotted time frame, technically they would not even need to scale the HP with this change.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Just brain storming, for example, when right after a mob is discovered, if someone spotted another mark, then players joined the first mark may miss the second mark, and then they may blame the player who triggered the second mark as "discovering-early"

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I disagree. There is no such thing as "discovering early" with what I am proposing...

If that were the case people would not wait for this proposal to complain about that as it would technically be applied now rather than later. To add to that there are other sites that show windows that are open for said hunts. Hunts are always "discovered" before many know about it.

They should make them like the BCNM's in FFXI. It will end this discussion on who pulled "early". It will just make it who can get their group together fast enough.

Updated Original idea per feedback...

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

....I disagree. There is no such thing as "discovering early" with what I am proposing....

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Right, if there is no "discovering early", howcome there will be "pulling early" ?
IMO the "pulling early" usually just means pulled before you want, so "discovery early" simply just means discovered (triggered the battle) before you want.

Your suggestion will make everyone escape from those marks to prevent involve in hunt when most ppl not hunting, like weeks ago.
Instead of your suggestion, I would suggest make it more simlpe and workable even only just a few men want to hunt. For example once a mark has been "pulled", the mark will turn into a green name npc, system messages for <pos> <t> would be sent to the world. Within a pre-defined period, everyone click on the npc can get the reward.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

They should make them like the BCNM's in FFXI. It will end this discussion on who pulled "early". It will just make it who can get their group together fast enough.

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I think you have forget the long queue at the BCNM entrance... ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Right, if there is no "discovering early", howcome there will be "pulling early" ?

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Pulling early and discovering early (which does not exist btw) are different things...

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

IMO the "pulling early" usually just means pulled before you want, so "discovery early" simply just means discovered (triggered the battle) before you want.

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It's not about you, it's about everyone. Discovering is just that. Discovering.... You don't choose when you discover something, you just do.

Conceptually the suggestion makes sense. Think about this:

You are a miner gathering whatever it is you gather. You run across a vicious beast (hunt discovered), You cry for help and take up arms to defend yourself (swap class and auto message appears on the screens to all players on the map), they come to your aid and the fight commences...

This "discovering early" you refer to is not a valid argument against the suggestion I am making. Or perhaps you are trying to say something else, in which case I may not correctly understand the point you are trying to make...?

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

I think you have forget the long queue at the BCNM entrance... ^^;

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I never did BCNM's in FFXI. Maybe I am just thinking on the standard NM's. Whoever claimed it first won.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

snip...

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the point they are likely trying to make is the same one SE already made. There is no such thing as "pulling early". Hunts were not designed to be server wide events. they were designed to be Brank = solo, A rank = 8 man, S rank = 24 man. anything more than that, is using them not as intended. If you have this number of people, you CAN kill it, which means the minimum amount of time before you should, by definition, be pulling has been reached.

We, as a community, have caused this issue. the solution, by strict standards, would be to restrict mapping of the mob, and disable the ability to announce hunts to LS's or shouts. make it so only the party or alliance that found the mark can attack the mark. this would not only eliminate the issue, but effectively let hunts work as they were originally intended.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

-snip-

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I get what you are saying with this response, but that is not what I am getting from Nicobo...

I don't complain about early pulling as it's very vague and you can't really determine what an early pull actually is. IMHO I feel others that say early pulling apply it as though someone did not wait for the person that said "Please wait. I'm almost there." and then the fight is over when they get there. I don't really define that as an "early pull."

Basically what I am getting at is there is really no such thing as an early pull, but even less existence of discovering early...

However I am trying to move forward with a solution vs all the unnecessary rage and drama with people claiming not waiting for every person that hollers "wait"

The suggestion I'm making would technically allow some time for others to actually get there and if they don't by the time the lockout circle disappears and enough people are there to beat it, then they can't blame no one but themselves for not getting there in time.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

....This "discovering early" you refer to is not a valid argument against the suggestion I am making. Or perhaps you are trying to say something else, in which case I may not correctly understand the point you are trying to make...?

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I am not trying to argue anything with you.
But since your OP states that "because it was a thread where people were pretty much talking about pulling early etc"
therefore it leaded me to think you made the suggestion to resolve "pulling early".

So I just want to say, if we agree "early pull" is an issue,
and then by reviewing some players behavior, I foresee they will just blame others when "the fight is started before they want".

For example, even you discovered a mob as a miner, call the world, wait 30min, eventually a perosn just returned from a dungeon and rush to the mob, but he is locked out, very likely he will /sh outside and blame ppl "early whatever". ^^;

So regardless how good of your suggestion, I don't think it will resolved the "early pull symdrome".


In addition, your lockout idea conficts with the original design of hunting.
By reviewing YoshiP's messages, hunting is designed as "anyone can join at anytime" intentionally, and explicitly said that players can do hunt without restriction.
So I would think for example, other than you scout and find the mobs, you may just walk over unintentionally and see some ppl are fighting a mob, you can join and help like joining a FATE. I believe this situation should be more closed to the intentional design.

The main problem of lockout is, the lockout (battle field) must be triggered by something, for example, someone aggro (head pull) the mob. Unless you suggest "see it" then trigger the battle field, otherwise the starting time of discovering(starting of the battle field) is controllable as long as no one has triggered the event. Right? That's why I said "ealy discovery" bcoz it should be controllable.

Even someone unintentionally aggro, and triggered the battle filed, then he should be able to escape from the "lock out zone" immediatley or he will be sent back to HP after being killed. ^^; and then, how about the mob? It shoud be sitting there and waiting for another "discovery". In other words, the lockout battle should be resettable, just like ppl resetting a mob, then it is predictable ppl will /sh "PTs incoming, reset the fight" .

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I never did BCNM's in FFXI. Maybe I am just thinking on the standard NM's. Whoever claimed it first won.

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ic, in FFXI, BCNM = Burnning Circle Notorious Monstor
In short, there were some entrances namely Burning Circle in the world, usually located at the ends of the map so players need to spend around 30min to reach it. Players need to trade an rare-ex-item to enter the fight. This item is obtained by trading some token item with a npc in the town. Therefore a 6ppl PT may have 6 fights as each person trade one time.

However, the BC has "room" limitation, it only allows a few fights to be carried out simultaneously.
Therefore very often, a PT arrives the BC after 30min travelling, and find that there are many PT waiting to enter the BC. And very often this PT need to wait for an hour or more until their turn to fight.

Ofcoz, when the game was new, some players just kept spam trading item to the BC until they could get in (with drama). But some time later, everyone became polite and queue up automatically. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

The main problem of lockout is, the lockout (battle field) must be triggered by something, for example, someone aggro (head pull) the mob. Unless you suggest "see it" then trigger the battle field, otherwise the starting time of discovering(starting of the battle field) is controllable as long as no one has triggered the event. Right? That's why I said "ealy discovery" bcoz it should be controllable.

Even someone unintentionally aggro, and triggered the battle filed, then he should be able to escape from the "lock out zone" immediatley or he will be sent back to HP after being killed. ^^; and then, how about the mob? It shoud be sitting there and waiting for another "discovery". In other words, the lockout battle should be resettable, just like ppl resetting a mob, then it is predictable ppl will /sh "PTs incoming, reset the fight" .

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Now I understand what you are saying.

However every idea, change, whether nerf or buff ALWAYS conflicts with the "original" idea of x design... that's why it's called a change.

There would be nothing different with the hunt other than the lockout/protect buff circle for a short period of time. After that the monster would be free game (basically everything else remains the same as it is now).

I don't really participate in hunts as my load times in to zones can be a little longer than others sometime for some unknown reason as everything else runs smoothly, but when I run across one I will call it out to my hunt LS and FC and then participate. But as is I don't want to be the one to inconvenience others because my load and travel time and I am sure others get his issue too and it's even a little worse after this recent hotfix.

Something like what I am suggesting would give players a little breathing room for errors like that as well as allowing players to get there without crying about the "early pull" as if they could not make in those couple of minutes before everyone is organized and ready to pull, then that would mean you just need to wait on the next hunt.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

Now I understand what you are saying.....

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Sorry for confusing you before, english is not my native language ^^;
Actually I agree you were trying to improve HUNT by good suggestion, at the first place I just wanted to say "early pull" is an arguable condition.
Regarding the original idea/design, I don't object make changes, but I just don't see they will make it,
because for this case, I think "the original idea/design" should be an important factor, reason as follows.


Before HUNT implementation, there were ppl requesting "sociable open world content" which was referring to NMs fight. Btw, there were also some discussions about open world NM would be claim-able or not, at this stage I understood that some requester's "sociable open world content" actually referred to "playing with their friends" but not with strangers.

And eventually HUNT was created to fulfill this request, maybe not exclusively for this request, but they said HUNT would be the solution for this request. However, the non-preemptive NMs fight was not what those requesters want to have, but nevermind, most ppl have forgot the association between "sociable open world content request" and "the HUNT", and now players mainly focus on "reward of hunting" and "unsuccessfully hunting".

TBH, I objected to the whole hunting when it first implemented, because I have foreseen these problems.
However, one day I read a post which I was not expected, I read many ppl who appeared rarely posting, they said HUNT was fun and like it.
And then new patch released, all NM marks became alone, until this patch, the cycle restarted, ^^;

the current hunt system is all about hunting smart and actively hunting.
if you're not doing either of these, then you're basically punished with "being slow".

although your suggestions are interesting, it would also mean that you'll end up rewarding people for.. well, doing nothing but waiting for links in LS.
i'm not sure if this would be something SE wants to adopt; rewarding people for doing nothing.

keep in mind that SE did intentionally "hide" hunt mobs by not making it into fates or having world wide announcements.
they want us to work for it, and thus the ones that do so are rewarded.
hunt links in LS are really just "acts of kindness" by active hunters, which may have given the impression that hunt mobs are meant to be server wide events but in reality they are not.

I'm an avid hunter, loved the idea since patch notes, was a long time player on FFXI and I was excited to hear that FFXIV would have NMs randomly spawning. Wicked.
That in mind, the system is flawed, but, for better or worse, no point changing it now. If you want more "instanced" content, request SE to add more Guildhests before changing the Hunt. Sure, they drop Carbontwine, but it's no different when Oil was available and everyone was grinding Hunts for their 110's. I'm part of 4 Hunt LS and an avid submitter, I still miss hunts. On Zalera we try to make it fair for everyone involved, but sometimes that is not the case, and ppl lose out. Instead of stiff upper lipping it like an adult, ppl /shout expletives and act like immature brats, kind of like this thread. Call it what you want, disguise it as an "Idea" but this is comparative to that person missing out and crying about it. They're random content, if you miss one or do not get full rewards, suck it up, look for the next hunt.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

It's not about competition. It's apparent that you just like conflict and confrontation. You have nothing constructive to add (which is apparent) and that's fine. But You strike me as one that would cry on shout when people did not wait for you on hunts.

It's not about I found it first. If it was the case you'd be able to solo it... get off your high horse man. To further that you insult SE's "failed" approach but would rather see the failed idea continue rather than work towards something that could be good for all...

Yeh VERY productive of you... :rolleyes:

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And slagging this guy for giving his opinion, Congratz to the OP, real mature