Ranged DPS dominating Slaughter Mode

all they have to do is stay together in their safe zone and shoot. if melee enemies try to attack them they'll get killed in 2 seconds.

you'll see a lot of ranged DPS have the killing buff on their names and then Cometeor storm is coming.

this mode is horrible, I'm going back to Secure mode for now.

Yes after getting stomped a few matches and seeing the tally at the end...I need to lvl BLM

I notice that lol. Cuz my team was doing it, they just turtles the mid arena and i saw like 4 blms on my team that would just hide in the cluster of ppl unloading their cds on any melee coming in range. Wasn't surprised they got shut down just didn't expect it to be blm and not bard lol. I feel bad for the tanks now.

The 24 Man its not so bad.
But 72 is just a mid lag cometor nightmare.

It's like a big game of "Dont you cross this line" 3 Alliances huddled on a tile per Alliance lol and once you leave your tile as a melee, GOODNIGHT.

You forgot to add the part where ninjas try to camp the warp points with Hide up, spamming Overwhelm on anything that walks by. The mode is alright, but I think there needs to be changes to keep people from piling on up top. Its most certainly not fun as a non-ranged melee, and I didn't get much further as a WAR. I can foresee the rose tinted glasses wearing off quite quickly with this one. It's a shame too cause I was really looking forward to an awesome, new PvP game mode. I'll probably play it for a few more days, but I definitely prefer secure over this at the moment.

Starcraft reference:

Zealots vs Marines
http://youtu.be/g53WnsjC9nw?t=25s

This is what happens when melee over-extend. They die. That's how it is supposed to work.

As a healer, I'm not going to put myself within range of their DPS unless there is a significant advantage. So just pace yourself melee. This isn't 8v8 anymore.

You can avoid this by working with a healer for pocket heals, following your tanks, or flanking a side as a group to take out their backline.

So far, this is awesome PvP.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

I notice that lol. Cuz my team was doing it, they just turtles the mid arena and i saw like 4 blms on my team that would just hide in the cluster of ppl unloading their cds on any melee coming in range. Wasn't surprised they got shut down just didn't expect it to be blm and not bard lol. I feel bad for the tanks now.

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Why feel bad? I'm having a ball with it. I get to do all that overextending and make it out alive. My damage so far as been right up there with the ranged also.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

This is what happens when melee over-extend. They die. That's how it is supposed to work.

As a healer, I'm not going to put myself within range of their DPS unless there is a significant advantage. So just pace yourself melee. This isn't 8v8 anymore.

You can avoid this by working with a healer for pocket heals, following your tanks, or flanking a side as a group to take out their backline.

So far, this is awesome PvP.

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Then range dps is at a advantage. Just because melee dps has to put themselves in danger to be able to dps...while range can just sit back near the healers.

Overall, slaughter mode is a hot mess.

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Originally Posted by Domira

Then range dps is at a advantage. Just because melee dps has to put themselves in danger to be able to dps...while range can just sit back near the healers.

Overall, slaughter mode is a hot mess.

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Melee has the same advantages it always had. Just stop thinking you are going to run through an entire team to kill the healer on the backline. Patience...

all they have to do is stay together in your face and auto-attack. if ranged try to attack them they'll use their gap closers and kill in 2 seconds

you'll see a lot of mnks with their greased lightning 3 stacks or nins just running away from a dead body or a DRG just LB a healer

this mode is horrible, I'm going back to Slaughter mode for now.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

Melee has the same advantages it always had. Just stop thinking you are going to run through an entire team to kill the healer on the backline. Patience...

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I'd appreciate if you not try to put words in my mouth.

I'm not saying that if someone plays melee they should expect to run through a entire team to kill a healer. I'm saying in every game with mass pvp, it has the exact same problem. The more enemies in melee range, the greater disadvantage a melee dps has. There is a reason why in every mass pvp game it usually becomes a range vs range fight, than a melee vs melee fight.

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Originally Posted by Domira

The more enemies in melee range, the greater disadvantage a melee dps has.

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The team with more melee DPS has the advantage. Check.

Melee (and I'd say tanks as well) are almost completely useless in Slaughter mode. You have two options:
-Sit with your team and pray that another dps overextends into your territory so that you can try and get a kill, all the while SMNs, BLMs, and BRDs pummel you from their side of mid (also have to pray that your healer(s) can heal you and aren't busy with other people)
-Try to attack towards the enemy team and be instantly destroyed by the 24 enemy players.

Melee had a place in Secure, really isn't much point in bringing one in Slaughter.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

The team with more melee DPS has the advantage. Check.

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Oh yeah? What advantage would a heavy melee team have in a fight against 48 other players who maybe ranged?

It's the same way with Slaughter on JP servers. Occasionally there's the odd sucker playing Monk or Dragoon but the overwhelming majority of DPS are BLMs. The mainstay strategy is to hold their LB until they see Sleep going off, then it's a spamfest with Cometeor. I have yet to see a melee DPS or BRD get Battle High. For some odd reason in the last match I saw a SMN get 10 kills, but I bet he switched away from BLM at the last second to get the nexus bonus.

They should divide BLM magic damage by the number of targets in range but that will never happen.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

It's the same way with Slaughter on JP servers. Occasionally there's the odd sucker playing Monk or Dragoon but the overwhelming majority of DPS are BLMs. The mainstay strategy is to hold their LB until they see Sleep going off, then it's a spamfest with Cometeor. I have yet to see a melee DPS or BRD get Battle High. For some odd reason in the last match I saw a SMN get 10 kills, but I bet he switched away from BLM at the last second to get the nexus bonus.

They should divide BLM magic damage by the number of targets in range but that will never happen.

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I've been on Battle high on SMN, but it was a little bit of luck. But I do agree with "BLM is OP". So don't take much of this post as "opposition" to you, its not

BLM had been nerfed considerably, but its true... its pretty dominated. But this is more an oversight by the Devs i believe. I don't think they intended for all 3 alliances from all sides to jump to the middle and play "hide behind the lines" and huddle on healers... I think they probably meant it to be more like the CTF mode where groups split up in A/B/C. This is what some of you expected as well (since you were all whining about healers not going to be useful and such...)

So, we're partially to blame here, it was quickly adopted that everyone just go crazy up top. Personally, if they want to fix this, they need the spawned enemies to grant more point, and they need to spawn randomly in any of the three outer strongholds. This would I think, encourage players to spread out by alliance, making it more akin to the old frontlines, but still with the heavy death match feel.

But some people like the inner chaos that this causes, its enjoyable to just let loose and try to kill. But it is rediculously one sided toward Mages and ranged players, sorry for anyone trying to argue otherwise, you're flat out wrong. Check any post-game battle and you will see Ranged melee being the highest scoring players. In the current adopted Slaughter strategy, there is no competition, you go as a ranged, or you're useless as a DPS.

My first slaughter I tried to go on NIN, expecting it to be similar to the original and melee DPS having an advantage. Within moments, I was snipped by an army of BLMs and RNGs and killed, I didn't even over extend, I played it safe, but its hard to play safe when every team has the same strategy, sitting in a cluster ranging... After I died, I switched to SMN, my only ranged job, and did significantly better. It was all I could handle not laughing out loud at the carnage I brought.

I mean, I could just cast my debuffs on the middle mob that spawns, keep Shadow flare up, and Bane... and get kills because the melee DPS try to kill it. I only ended with 9 kills, but I did the most damage of my entire team minus one BLM, who, guess what... got 20 kills and did over 200k damage.

I wish people would stop ranged are OP in Slaughter, they are, everyone runs them and they absolutely destroy in teams. But again, this is due to the current strategy involved with Frontlines of "camping" in your corner of the upper arena and ranging.

"Ranged" Do not dominate the new mode, casters do. They are going to get nerfed really hard because its even worse than healer stacking ever use to be. I wonder how much its going to be gimped by.

It's worse when you consider the premades that figure out that ranged are what dominates, and more importantly, their limit breaks. I was in a match where the majority of what enemy did was bind and sleep spam and caster LB (adrenaline) spam. They just stacked loads and loads of limit breaks on one area and killed everyone and would get almost imediate battle high. This mode is broken right now with players like that, and the adrenaline gauge being the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Hollowed

"Ranged" Do not dominate the new mode, casters do. They are going to get nerfed really hard because its even worse than healer stacking ever use to be. I wonder how much its going to be gimped by.

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I'd have to disagree, BRD can easily pick off BLMs as easy as BLMs can pick off them... but, BLMs and SMNs do have more AoE damage output which indeed makes them more dangerous. but BRD have advantage over melee DPS still in this... Basically melee DPS, and by extension tanks, got shafted.

Again, I concur, but I also think its slightly due to the now pronounced adopted playstyle for slaughter being "Gather in the center and battle royale", which, I don't think was anticipated XD

It's almost impossible for melee players to attack the Node because of Cometeor spamming. You'll need at least 3 Final Coil level of Scholars to save your life.

Thanks SE for making an unfair PvP mode like this. please fix it soon.

http://i.imgur.com/TIb8Mfs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rv8eysR.jpg

hey I forgot to mark the summoner on the left, he's on fever too.

I'm the drg by the pld with fever! (you see the "on" for Dragoon)

Melees problem is usually that they run far away from the healing range so it is usually impossible keep them alive. Some ppl think killing healers is always the first thing what 2 do and then healers kite those melees behind until they can not get any heals anymore. Melee should always stay in healing range. If opponent is running away, you should change 2 another target and if many players target on you, you should run back 2 your group with sprint. Also personal limit break should probably get 25% damage nerf or something like that because you can do it so many times in the battle.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Melees problem is usually that they run far away from the healing range so it is usually impossible keep them alive. Some ppl think killing healers is always the first thing what 2 do and then healers kite those melees behind until they can not get any heals anymore. Melee should always stay in healing range.

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I mean, you're right here for sure... but the problem is a Caster/Ranged can do their full damage while bundling on the healers... a Melee DPS cannot, as they need to be in melee range of the enemies to function. I don't believe you are arguing against that however.

Its plain to see the one sidedness of Slaughter atm, but what is it SE could do? I mean, without just completely nerfing BLM into being useless, what practical adjustments could be made? The problem stems from the players current strategy in Slaughter (middle ground huddling), not so much BLM OP... as in the CTF version, BLMs aren't OP. Its the same mages, just a different adopted style of combat, one favoring BLMs potential.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

Its plain to see the one sidedness of Slaughter atm, but what is it SE could do? I mean, without just completely nerfing BLM into being useless, what practical adjustments could be made? The problem stems from the players current strategy in Slaughter (middle ground huddling), not so much BLM OP... as in the CTF version, BLMs aren't OP. Its the same mages, just a different adopted style of combat, one favoring BLMs potential.

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Overall limits need to be changed to make it more fair. You build limit the same as always by taking damage or dishing it out, ranged do that far more easily. The amount of damage done by a cometeor is insane compared to melee and you don't have to worry about the target moving out of range, there is also the nigh unlimited damage potential and how easy it is to stack them.

A fix I'd like to see is making it so that melee lb is an oGCD skill with no channel. Not only do you have to risk your life to set it up but you also have to sit there for 3 seconds and they can just run away and you lose a crap ton of lb, and probably your life, for nothing. They could also make melee lb just charge faster, though tank and support lb would need to get the treatment first imo. They could reduce mage/ranged armour to less than a paper bag, with the risk to get them in this mode it would make sense.

They could just make all aoe damage like in XI where the more people you hit the less damage you do, really uncapped aoe damage in a mode where you're pretty much guaranteed to hit 3 or more people is silly. This is the best idea as mage damage numbers that are ridiculous for the amount of time spent.

http://i.imgur.com/R2XlDur.jpg

9 BLMs on Maelstrom all with Battle High then go on to dominate the match.

Time to level BLM

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

I mean, you're right here for sure... but the problem is a Caster/Ranged can do their full damage while bundling on the healers...

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If healers know how 2 position themselves, they can stay 30 y behind targets they need heal. Caster/Ranged have 25 y range so in theory healers will stick 55 - 30 y away from the opponents casters(if your alliance always attack nearest target) so it is impossible get hit that far away and not even point try 2 do that. I have seen ppl say "kill healers and win" but that is not true because healer is the hardest target kill because whole enemy team will cover him. That is only good option if healer fooling around in front of the party. Or if healers stick inside the flag in the secure mode. The thing that is the most effective in the battleground is fast swaps between targets and smash dps classes that is in easiest position. But well, it is almost impossible balance melee and ranged between battlegrounds and arena games. That same problem was in wow. Most of caster groups dominated battleground gameplay but melee work too if you know how 2 play it well and position yourself well. More crowded battleground is, more ranged dominate. Hope they do more 8man battlegrounds in the future because there is no point of balancing classes rounded by 72 players.

my suggestion:

- nerf Cometeor, make it do less damage when used against multiple target. Cometor or Meteor in the previous FF games didn't have 100% chance to hit all the enemies since the meteorites will randomly fall on the targets.

- nerf the AoE Sleep already, it's been overpowered before and still overpowered now. reduce the success rate, I mean at least not 100% for god sake.

- the mecha enemies on the battlefield, whatever it called, need to do more random AoE to make it impossible for the players to just stand in the same spot. and make it target on the players with Battle High/Fever statuses more than the players of losing teams.

- make market/manor/temple ADS spawn 3-4 times throughout the match, stop these 24 vs 24 vs 24 in the middle.

Or just simply make it always 8v8v8 and remove 24v24v24 mode. That would make queues faster too.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Or just simply make it always 8v8v8 and remove 24v24v24 mode. That would make queues faster too.

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but 8v8v8 matches are boring. the map and all the mechanics were designed for 72 players. they just need to reduce the chance that all 72 players will fight in the same spot.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

but 8v8v8 matches are boring. the map and all the mechanics were designed for 72 players. they just need to reduce the chance that all 72 players will fight in the same spot.

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I think for slaughter it would work very well, just keep secure as it is.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Or just simply make it always 8v8v8 and remove 24v24v24 mode. That would make queues faster too.

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/agreed

/10

melee in large fight are always in a trouble, because they can't do brainless dps as usual, but need to stay with their group, protect the healer, and peeling ..usually, as a sch, i stay back, but in a couple of frontline, i found some drg and nin that know how to play properly, i follow them into the enemy team, they protect me all the time, and i heal them all the time, we together destroy the entire team, and no one of us die..it was amazing! best frontline ever! a good melee can do the difference, the truth is there's many , many ,many braindead melee in pvp, run away alone into the enemy group and think they are immortal lol

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Originally Posted by lotti

melee in large fight are always in a trouble, because they can't do brainless dps as usual, but need to stay with their group, protect the healer, and peeling ..usually, as a sch, i stay back, but in a couple of frontline, i found some drg and nin that know how to play properly, i follow them into the enemy team, they protect me all the time, and i heal them all the time, we together destroy the entire team, and no one of us die..it was amazing! best frontline ever! a good melee can do the difference, the truth is there's many , many ,many braindead melee in pvp, run away alone into the enemy group and think they are immortal lol

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They seem rather replaceable by a STR spec'd tank.

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Originally Posted by Domira

Then range dps is at a advantage. Just because melee dps has to put themselves in danger to be able to dps...while range can just sit back near the healers.

Overall, slaughter mode is a hot mess.

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Range isn't at an advantage though because the majority of ranged damage comes from casters who are auto-interrupted by a melee just breathing on them. Melee also have a host of gap closers that casters struggle to counter due to having such limited CC options. Essentially you need to coordinate melee to shut down the casters with good timing.

It's nice to see the melees complaining now though, considering they've had a massive advantage in Frontlines up until now due to shutting down casters with auto-attacks.

I've only be playing Slaughter as healer, first because Flames never have enough heals, and second because otherwise I would go as MNK and I just know I wouldn't last long unless we have a decent among of melee.
As WHM I can obviously see that the lone melee (and tanks) in our party that decide to go attack because he ain't gonna stay behind the whole fight, get targeted and focused first, which is logical, but such an inconvenient.
If you have multiple melee attacking together that would be the idea? but if you're alone then I hope you have heals that can react quickly. Talking of the middle the ADS also seem to hurt melee a lot? which make things even worse. Like with the other FL, if you try to beat the mob you're just offering yourself to mage and their LB.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

stuff

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Are we talking specifically about 1v1's or in general? Because in general ranged and melee were relatively balanced as far as Secure goes. The fact is, any melee that dares get close enough to interrupt any caster in Slaughter mode will be melted within 5 seconds as the entire enemy team focuses him down. Did melee have an advantage in secure? Maybe slightly in some situations, but ranged have an overwhelming advantage in every situation in Slaughter. The only way to "effectively" play melee is to turtle up with your team and hope other players are stupid enough to overextend into your third of mid. And even then you're still extremely vulnerable to the will of enemy ranged and the benevolence of your team's healers.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Or just simply make it always 8v8v8 and remove 24v24v24 mode. That would make queues faster too.

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Yep!
Why they even felt we even needed another 72man is completely beyond me and i just hope their plans for the future isn't to just keep adding lol72man maps all the way, it's very hard to get big scale battlegrounds right and they haven't been doing the best of jobs.
So yeah, they should fix Slaughter or just simply make it 8v8v8 which just works and is fun.