The Keeper of the Lake Elder primal

The elder primal, the keeper of the lake which i have forgotten the name of has peeked my interest but i know nothing about him, could anyone provide any information about him.

The BluRay calls him an elder primal, but that's a typo. His name was Midgardsormr and he was a king among dragonkind.

He's called the Keeper of the Lake because Eorzean legends state that Althyk and Nymeia, eldest of the Twelve, created Midgardsormr to guard Silvertear falls. When the Empire attempted to take Mor Dhona in 1562, and thereby control the great conflux of aether at the heart of the realm in hopes of preventing anyone from using it to summon primals (which they'd fought on another continent and had no desire to see ever again), it was like the gods themselves were validated when Midgardsormr appeared (they say he rose from slumber beneath the lake, but we never actually saw it, so, who knows).

Countless dragons from Dravania hailed the lord of the lake's call, and they united against the invading Imperial armada. Midgardsormr coiled himself around the Garlean flagship Agrius and dragged it to ground, but the crash ignited the ceruleum fuel tanks on board and the resulting explosion destroyed them both. The wreck you see in Mor Dhona, made of the bones of Midgardsormr and Agrius' wreckage, is what people currently refer to as The Keeper of the Lake.

ok that clears up a lot of things but do we know why primals started flying out of him when he lighted up.

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Originally Posted by KiritoKhun

do we know why primals started flying out of him

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Lots of guesses have been made, but it hasn't come up since that scene, as far as I know.

Even if it is exactly what it looks like, we don't know how or why.

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Originally Posted by KiritoKhun

ok that clears up a lot of things but do we know why primals started flying out of him when he lighted up.

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They didn't fly out of him, it's more so the Primals were set free when the ceruleum engines of the Agrias blew up as it hit the Silvertear Lake and destroyed some kind of seal. Hopefully the new dungeon will clear it up.

And if it's anything like every other story dungeon it's gonna have maybe a few sentences of story poorly tied together then drop it. Then have you do 50 tasks that nothing to do the main scenario like pick up some grapes.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

And if it's anything like every other story dungeon it's gonna have maybe a few sentences of story poorly tied together then drop it. Then have you do 50 tasks that nothing to do the main scenario like pick up some grapes.

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Well aren't you a positive ray of sunshine, seem to remember a recent HM dungeon that was filled with back story, Tam-Tara Hard. I'd assume though that the new Keeper of the Lake duty will be tied into 2.5's storyline, much like how Snowcloak was.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Well aren't you a positive ray of sunshine, seem to remember a recent HM dungeon that was filled with back story, Tam-Tara Hard. I'd assume though that the new Keeper of the Lake duty will be tied into 2.5's storyline, much like how Snowcloak was.

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Tam tara had good back story and what not. But snowcloak was the reference I was making. It had fenrir last minute in it for no real reason.

You barely had to deal with cult.

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Originally Posted by KiritoKhun

do we know why primals started flying out of him

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We know that Ceruleum is concentrated and refined Aether, and Aether is released when any living thing dies. We also know that during the many assaults by the Imperial Legion the beast tribes are fervently praying to their gods for deliverance.

It seems reasonable that the release of a huge amount of Aether, through the destruction of the Agrius and the death of Midgardsormr, is enough for the primals to take physical form and answer their followers prayers.

I don't think that's actually supported in any official lore, but it seems to follow what we know of the world and it's primals.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Tam tara had good back story and what not. But snowcloak was the reference I was making. It had fenrir last minute in it for no real reason.

You barely had to deal with cult.

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Fenrir was almost always a minor summon, I don't see why it was expected from him to have a major role in the story.

I can't see Midgarsormr being a dungeon boss, it's more likely that there will be a strong beast inside the Agrius though.

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Originally Posted by Saevel

We also know that during the many assaults by the Imperial Legion the beast tribes are fervently praying to their gods for deliverance. It seems reasonable that the release of a huge amount of Aether, through the destruction of the Agrius and the death of Midgardsormr, is enough for the primals to take physical form and answer their followers prayers.

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Honestly, confirmed or not, that's one of the best explanations for it being the literal interpretation of the scene that I've heard so far. If Garuda could force the summon by killing a small group of them and tearing out their aether as they prayed, it's perfectly possible. It requires two leaps of faith, one I'm completely comfortable with and one I'm not sure about. The former is that there were a lot of prayers going out at the time, at the same time. That I'd buy. The NPCs even referred to the time of the Fall of the Keeper being a time where if your life situation fully recovered from it, that was impressive.

Here's where it gets a little hairy. One of the primals seen in that explosion was Ifrit, and, though some primals were summoned the same year of the Battle of Silvertear Skies (Leviathan and Titan among them), Square Enix has in the past explicitly stated that Ifrit was not first sighted until two years later. He would have had to have been secretly defeated by something else, dissolved on his own without interference, or gone two years without bothering anyone (not his style). It also suggests that the Ascians were already here, already teaching the beast tribes before the Keeper fell, which is unconfirmed. We have no evidence of Sixth Astral Era Ascian activity in Eorzea before 1562, and we're not sure if that activity was pre-or-post Silvertear Skies. It's fully possible, perhaps even likely, but it's not something we can enter into the canon on assumption without building a huge house of cards.

But, as I sit here trying to think of a way to meld these theories, a thought occurs to me that hadn't before. Maybe it actually is a mix of the literal and metaphorical interpretations of the visual scene. If we're seeing Ifrit's essence, perhaps that's the representation of Ifrit is among those who can now be summoned - we're seeing his essence become available, even if he wasn't explicitly summoned. You can even take that theory a little further - what if that explosion of aether happening at the same time as a lot of prayers is not when the primals were summoned or released, but then the not-elder primals, those of this era, were created as true primals—

*FINAL COIL SPOILERS*

the same way Louisoix was turned into Phoenix when all that aether was released over Cartenau.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Fenrir was almost always a minor summon, I don't see why it was expected from him to have a major role in the story.

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This. Although I adore Fenrir, the only Final Fantasy game he's been of any relevance is FFXI. He had a huge part to play in FFXI, but if you look through the history of the game, he's always had an extremely minor role.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Fenrir was almost always a minor summon, I don't see why it was expected from him to have a major role in the story.

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Indeed. We may as well wonder why Siren of Pharos Sirius wasn't a summon as well, because, you know, she also guest-starred as a minor summon in other Final Fantasy titles.

Moreover, if one is truly interested in myths and lore, one would know that Fenrir is closely associated with the Norse myth of Ragnarok, the end times heralded by the arrival of the Fimbulwinter. So, it makes sense to associate a wintry dungeon with a legendary monster that has close links to devastating cold. FFXIV's Fenrir is actually a lot more faithful to the original Norse version than the FFXI's version was.

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

They didn't fly out of him, it's more so the Primals were set free when the ceruleum engines of the Agrias blew up as it hit the Silvertear Lake and destroyed some kind of seal. Hopefully the new dungeon will clear it up.

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I don't think the primals were trapped at all by the seal. The seal locked a huge amount of aether - and by its destruction, large amounts of aether was released into the world thus providing enough aether for Primals to be summoned.

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

I don't think the primals were trapped at all by the seal. The seal locked a huge amount of aether - and by its destruction, large amounts of aether was released into the world thus providing enough aether for Primals to be summoned.

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A primal was summoned in Othard before the Agrius fall, so it can't be that.

Is it really accurate to say that the primals were actually "summoned" when Midgardsormr was killed? We saw them flying out, but they didn't actually do much.

I was under the impression that the video was trying to make it clear that Midgardsormr's defeat had unsealed the Primals and allowed them to become summonable again, but the primals seen at the actual event were just the primals' essences, made briefly visible before they faded back into the Aether.

Pretty much, the Primals' way of saying, "Hey, everyone - we're open for business again! If you need us, give us a call!"

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

I can't see Midgarsormr being a dungeon boss, it's more likely that there will be a strong beast inside the Agrius though.

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I can't either. Also need to remember XIV 1.0 's "Futures Perfect" Story Mission proved that some of the Garlean Hardware still worked in the Agrius even after it's destruction. It might play a role in the new dungeon as well.

So if they were sealed in the first place coulnt we re-seal them?

So if they were sealed could we re-seal them?

oops didnt mean to post it twice

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Originally Posted by KiritoKhun

So if they were sealed could we re-seal them?

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We could, if we had the same level of technology as the allagan empire and their years in developping Anti-Primal devices ( Ultima Weapon and the seal of the lake )

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Originally Posted by KiritoKhun

So if they were sealed could we re-seal them?

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In-story, the NPCs (and our players) would LOVE to re-seal them, and doubtless there are countless people researching Allagan technology off-screen in the hopes of doing just that. It likely will never happen, though; the Summons are a staple part of Final Fantasy tradition, and it's doubtful SE would change the game in such a way that Summons were permanently removed.

If SE was really bold, though, they COULD do this - and in some turn of plot give us other ways to interact with the Primals. Perhaps battling them on their own turf in the Aether... It'd take a great deal of magical technobabble to pull that one off, though!

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Perhaps battling them on their own turf in the Aether... It'd take a great deal of magical technobabble to pull that one off, though!

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Isn't that a good approximation of what happens in a pretty spoiler-y fight in FCoB?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

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If the primals had been sealed in the lake (under the lake?). Then it kinda adds a sense of Irony that the Garleans, who want to destroy all primals where an indirect cause, due to their actions, of the primals actually being released from where they were sealed.

Doesn't seem improbable that the Allagans where able to seal away lesser primals if they where able to contain and restrain Elder primals.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Then it kinda adds a sense of Irony

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Exactly! Though, one could argue that the irony exists regardless of semantics like whether primals or just aether (or a third option) were sealed. Either way, they achieved the exact opposite of their goals (and perhaps worse). Even Nael van Darnus' meteor project was steeped in that irony. "Just gonna drop this moon and there will be no more primals." <primal breaks out of the moon> "OH, COME ON."

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Doesn't seem improbable that the Allagans where able to seal away lesser primals if they where able to contain and restrain Elder primals.

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Not at all! Makes a lot of sense, even has some parallels. But here's the logical bottleneck for me: If the primals themselves, as individual existences, were sealed, then the Allagan sealed Ifrit and Titan, who were visible in the scene. That would make them roughly as old as Bahamut, and therefore they'd be Elder Primals - but they're not (inb4 theory that the Ifrit and Titan were actually Belias and Hashmal because Belias-egi looks just like Ifrit-egi). I can find a way around a lot of things, but I can't find a way around that. For me, it always leads back to the theory that the the primal essences were born into the aether of the beast tribes worship and it just didn't become feasible to summon them until the aetheric streams were warped by the breaking of the seal.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

I can't either. Also need to remember XIV 1.0 's "Futures Perfect" Story Mission proved that some of the Garlean Hardware still worked in the Agrius even after it's destruction. It might play a role in the new dungeon as well.

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That's actually incorrect - that blast that Gaius summoned to make his getaway during Future's Perfect wasn't actually from the Agrius, as it's an abandoned, completely inoperable wreck, but another airship that he had hovering directly overhead (earlier in that same cutscene just before Gaius engaged the Archons you could just see it obscured in mist in front of the wreck of the Agrius. In case there is still doubt about this here's some screenshots of that scene that quite clearly show that cannon salvo comes from another Garlean airship hovering above:

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps1be1dd6b.jpg
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps272281d1.jpg

So yeah, the Agrius is pretty defunct by the present day - that doesn't mean it still wouldn't make for an awesome dungeon I'll give you that. ;)

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Originally Posted by KiritoKhun

So if they were sealed could we re-seal them?

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Going off the Ramuh Main Scenario quests, I'd say it's more likely we'd use the technique to seal the Ascians, considering Primal Summoning is a planned thing. Perhaps the Ascians were even sealed there originally instead, they did teach the beast tribes how to summon after the fall I believe? There were Ascians in the introductory Echo section of the 1.0 quests, but we don't know how many. There does seem to have been a pick up in Ascian activity after the Battle of Silvertear Skies (if I'm correct about them teaching tribes after the battle), so perhaps a few avoided being sealed and set the events into motion to free the rest. Also... 1.0s Limsa story revolved around a horn used to wake the sea serpent seen in the opening, correct? That same horn was stolen by an Ascian towards the conclusion, and all of that took place in an Echo before the Battle for Silvertear Skies? Ascian steals horn which can wake sleeping serpents > goes to Silvertear Lake to wake Midgardsormr who was said to sleep in the lake, just as the Garleans arrive > the Garleans and the guardian of the lake (what was he guarding?) defeat each other and something is released, justasplanned.png

Regardless, from what I remember of the Ramuh quests, Ascians are similar enough to Primals that we could probably seal them in the same way, assuming there was ever actually a seal to begin with.

Given Icehearts parting words, I'm guessing this is all just leading to us being able to summon Primals as she did, though. The Allagan created the Summoner Job, so we know they had a passing interest in summoning Primals themselves with magic. Suppose the Echo was their missing link stopping them from properly summoning a Primal "perfectly", meaning we can summon Primals Iceheart style whereas they never could. Perhaps they attempted it without Echo and that is how Odin originated (his dialog suggests to me that he was once a man). Perhaps that failure lead to them taking a technological approach instead. Ultima Weapon already "captured" Ifrit/Titan/Garuda and utilized them in combat, perhaps their Weapons captured Primals and they analyzed them to consider their worth (Omega Weapon was used to subdue Bahamut, and they saw his worth as a orbital fusion reactor), worthless ones were permanently stored at what is now Silvertear Lake (which is right next to Crystal Tower, hint hint). Basically the Allagan were the Ghostbusters, and the Silvertear Seal was the Ecto-Containment System...

I'm guessing that whatever we find at The Keeper will be a "perfect" summoning method. It felt like Iceheart had Shiva on a leash (some nice imagery for you all), while it took a lot of Aether/Crystals for her to summon Shiva, she wasn't out of control and I imagine once Iceheart was done she could just hit dismiss and all that Aether would return to the planet without the need for a fight. When the beast tribes summon Primals, which they did so under the instructions of the Ascians, they're not on a leash. The summoning the Ascians taught was an "imperfect" summoning, which gives the summoned free reign to do whatever they want, and when you're the elemental aspect of fire all you want to do is burn (for example), which is bad for us, but exactly what the Ascians want.

Kind of makes me wonder if The Keeper of the Lake (Dungeon) will involve Ascian based enemies... If we're their to learn something which can foil their plans, it only makes sense for them to be there to stop us. I'd be down for a rematch with Lahabrea, assuming he grew a pair this time.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Kind of makes me wonder if The Keeper of the Lake (Dungeon) will involve Ascian based enemies... If we're their to learn something which can foil their plans, it only makes sense for them to be there to stop us. I'd be down for a rematch with Lahabrea, assuming he grew a pair this time.

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I'm still going with my theory that the next Ascian we get to fight is the one shown in the main scenario as "the power behind the throne" in Ishgard as I very much doubt that he would allow us free access to Ishgard while still pulling the strings.Removing that threat would unveil their eyes, so to speak.

Which beggars the question of when did that Ascian actually assume that mantel? Is it tied directly to Ishgard splitting from the alliance and shutting their doors to the outside?

Has the Ascians plans been in planning for ages that, maybe they where the cause of Xandes mad lust for power which led to the destruction of the Allag Empire? How far back, do we know, does the Ascians go?

Did they exist during the Allag Empire or created during? A top of my head thought :D Warriors of light where "the enemy" Xande feared, but when he tapped into the dark power that destroyed the Allag Empire the backlash corrupted the Original Warriors of light, turning them into Warriors of dark "Ascians" ^_^

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

I can't see Midgarsormr being a dungeon boss, it's more likely that there will be a strong beast inside the Agrius though.

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Given that he's the dragon in the logo for the expansion I would say if anything we'll see him resurrected as a result of that dungeon. Given Iceheart's words after defeating her I believe she received an echo vision from Midgardsormr that revealed to her the truth about the origins of the Ishgard/Dravania war. I'm expecting that we'll receive the same vision at the end of the dungeon and it will cause us to turn on the Holy See much as Iceheart did.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

That's actually incorrect

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Lol, my bad. Goes to show no matter how many times you watch something, something can be missed.

@ Alberel: We don't know if it is Midgardsormr in the Heavensward logo, it could just as well be Nidhogg

From 10/31/14;

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

And, finally, yes, Silvertear is from where the modern primals came. The Allagan used the lake to trap the weaker primals (trapping primals was kind of their thing). What's interesting here is that Midgarsormr was/is the "Keeper of the Lake", it's protector. This means it's likely that the Allagan assigned him this task using some variation of their dragon mind-controll devices.

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For reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC510DpbU0

The way I see it, the allagan seal was literally broken when the Argius reached a certain depth and that the 'lesser' primals were really released back into the stream of aether in that moment. Now, on them being as old as the elder primals, it's a non-issue. Bahamut and Odin could still be eons older than the primals seen in that scene.

Well the only real mention of the crash in terms of aether was the initial refences from 1.0 quests that explained the explosion unstablized the aether which caused all the aether crystals that aren't corrupted around Mor Dhona. So the primals we saw might have been an story idea that was dropped with the switch of team leads or just an explaination of a huge aetheral rip that released alot of energy and was shaped into the images of aetherial beings to represent how much energy was released.

I have a feeling that the dungeon will have more to do with Ishigardians and the Ascian plot for them then with the aetherial vein of the lake and Midgardsormr. But unlike all the other dungeons displayed that video is completely devoid of enemies, now if that is intentional as an intro video or an attempt to remove clues we wouldn't be able to say yet.

<edit>

Had a thought maybe that was the original idea for primal specific aetherites. Before Yoshi P took over. Around the 1.0 world before the adjustments there were oddly specific things around the world for a world intentionally devoid of most land marks. There are a few videos but this was the only that shows it specifically in my small search.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHhQAIKd9SA

So maybe what we are seeing was the initial idea to primals being bound to specific crystals and that explosion scattered them across the world. When they introduced the primal fights alot of these areas were no longer able to be accessed as I tried to get back to the aetherial crystal cave prison thing after garuda was released to find invisible walls and caves that do to no where.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Now, on them being as old as the elder primals, it's a non-issue. Bahamut and Odin could still be eons older than the primals seen in that scene.

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I think the "The Seal contained the primals, and they were trapped by the Allag" theory is plausible, but to dismiss the entire question of why would Ifrit not then be an Elder Primal is overreaching (imho). I'm not discounting the possibility that Ifrit was sealed by the Allag, but I find more evidence than not that he wasn't around in the Third Astral Era. Every contemporary primal has lacked the elder description, and every primal of the Allag age has been called such. The absence of the black swan required for the theory to function is more than a "non-issue" (again, imho).

Odin and Behemoth are easily overlooked only if Odin was already the Dark Divinity (explaining why he was sealed) and the Meracydian brood is older than the Third Astral Era - nothing gamebreakingly contradictory, there, I suppose. But Belias is harder to make work with the theory. The summoner storyline tells us that Belias was summoned and defeated (at least once, probably multiple times) in the Third Astral Era by an Allag summoner. The memories of the summoner's victory, which enabled him to form and control Belias-egi, were encoded in his soulstone. This implies that, unlike Odin and Bahamut, Belias didn't have to be sealed away, and he wasn't that powerful. By extension, this likely makes Belias to his age what Ifrit is to ours - a contemporary primal. But, in our age, the Ascian refers to Belias' essence as that of "a slumbering elder primal." If the theory is true, it implies that Belias was ages older than Ifrit, but Ifrit was sealed whereas Belias was defeated by a summoner and his memory eventually lost to the ages.

It seems much more likely to me that Belias was a newer primal then and an older primal now, which means Ifrit would be more likely to be a newer primal now. I can't really find a way to make the IF BELIAS X, THEN IFRIT Y situation work in a way that's backed up by the story so far. It's like putting a puzzle piece in the middle when all you've completed are the borders. It fits, but will it still fit when we have more pieces there? Is it possible that Belias was older than Ifrit at the time? Sure. Is it possible that Belias was sealed later and forgotten? Also, sure. Again, I think the theory is still on the table, but we can't just write off the Belias v. Ifrit problem without adequate explanation beyond a guess, can we?

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Originally Posted by Sakasa

I tried to get back to the aetherial crystal cave prison thing after garuda was released to find invisible walls and caves that do to no where.

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I don't know if it was blocked for a short time (or perhaps you later took a wrong turn on the way? It was a confusing location to reach, to be sure), but the crystal cave was open all the way to the day the servers closed and was a flag-trigger for two Seventh Umbral Era quests. The only thing that changed about it was that the three-sided shape in the middle of the largest crystal was removed and the symbol of Thaliak was carved into it. It was first seen in Like Father Like Son, where Cid referred to it as The Crypt of Xandes I and said that it was at Silvertear Falls. This implies that the crystal formation was actually the spire of Syrcus Tower, albeit in an entirely different location than it is in 2.0. The cave was later seen in Living on a Prayer. It's the location of Louisoix, Urianger, and the player's final interaction before the Battle of Cartenau, and Louisoix states that from that location he can "feel the gods stirring."

Now that I think about it, if the crystal cave was the 1.0 location of Syrcus Tower's spire, then it suddenly makes sense why one language referred to Crystal Tower's location as west and the other as east - perhaps one referred to the current crystal caves, and the other referred to the eventual location in 2.0...

Here's a list of the things in that video:

• 00:00 The Crypt of Xandes I (1.0 Only - See Above)
• 00:34 Dark Aetherial Node (1.0 Only; Dunno what it was. Weak gate? Void entrance?)
• 01:08 Gwyr-Aen (Still Exists)
• 01:31 Ishgardian Vigil (Still Exists; Design and size have been retconned)
• 01:59 The Falcon's Nest (Inaccessible in Coerthas Western Highlands)
• 03:03 Amberscale Rock (Still Exists; guarded by powerful elementals in 1.0 storyline; associated with dragon legend; looks like a dragon)
• 03:16 The Guardian Tree (Still Exists; heart of the Twelveswood)
• 04:00 White Tree (Unknown; Likely just an early Hedgetree)
• 04:13 Burnt Tree (1.0 Only; Burned by Khrimm in the storyline)
• 04:25 Lifemend Stump (Still Exists; Associated with Moogle Lore)
• 04:40 Gelmorran Ruins (Destroyed; remnants visible in ARR. Rocks missing, look similar to Amberscale, shaped kinda like tonberries)
• 05:08 Thal's Respite (Still Exists)
• 05:48 The Red Labyrinth (Still Exists in name, doesn't glow like that)

I'm expecting either those Giants outside CT or some old Magiteks. Once we beat the dungeon Midgard shows up and says "3.0 Bitches" then flies off to Ishgard.

:b

I can't speak much on Belias as I haven't done anything SCH or SMN related. I still think NPCs use the term "elder" far too loosely for how we interpret it. When I call something elder it's been around for-fking-ever, it's big, bad and all kinds of powerful. Bahamut is the 'eldest' by that definition, followed by Odin and Behemoth. Everything else (that I know of) is a 'modern' primal as far as I'm concerned. Again, idk where Belias would fit in that specrum.

It could also be that 'elders' get that title from their popularity. The elemental primals are only known by their respective tribes and a few handfulls of the spoken, whereas elders are known by pretty much everyone who's ever heard the term "primal" and probably worshiped by far, far more in comparison to the others. So, maybe Belias is considered elder because he was widely known to the spoken races in the 3rd Astral Era (at least the whole of the Nymian civilization?).

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Every contemporary primal has lacked the elder description, and every primal of the Allag age has been called such.

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Is it possible that only Primals that have been inactive for a long enough period are called Elder? For example if Ifrit and Bahamut had existed side by side in the past, but Bahamut stopped being summoned people would come to refer to him as an Elder Primal, but Ifrit wouldn't because he never stopped regularly being summoned.

I've heard the expression Old Gods to refer to the gods worshipped by the Greek or Norse, but gods that are currently worshipped aren't called old even if some of them have existed for as long as Greek deities. The difference being I think is that few if any people worship the old gods anymore. So the title isn't because of age, but rather a lack of people who believe in them.

I think something similar might be happening in Eorzea.

Kind of unrelated, but is Behemoth actually a Primal? I never got that impression, I just thought he was supposed to be a big monster that wandered around. Likely missed some mention of it if he is, but seems odd with King Behemoth and such then. Only bringing it up since I saw on this latest page a couple mentions of Behemoth as a Primal.

I always figured the whole Elder Primal thing was quite literal; Bahamut and Odin were summoned and sealed during the Allag times, and have maintained since. Bahamut certainly, Odin is a bit of an oddity but I don't think we actually defeat him in the FATE, maybe in the upcoming Trial. Meanwhile, Ifrit et al are continually being defeated and resummoned. Their physical "lives" end almost as soon as they begin, while Odin and Bahamut have "lived" for eras. How does Belias fit into that? Well, he maintained physical form for a significant amount of time, thus becoming "Elder", before finally being put down and forgotten. Alternatively Belias, like Odin and Bahamut, maintains a physical form to this day and when he was described as a "slumbering elder primal", he literally is slumbering in some corner of Hydaelyn.

Kinda like a Primal leveling system;

Bahamut, summoned and undefeated for X years, leveled up to Elder Primal.
Ifrit, summoned and defeated in 5 minutes, still a Primal.

It could explain why Primals are so intent on being summoned and maintaining physical form. The longer they're out, the stronger they get.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

Is it possible that only Primals that have been inactive for a long enough period are called Elder? For example if Ifrit and Bahamut had existed side by side in the past, but Bahamut stopped being summoned people would come to refer to him as an Elder Primal, but Ifrit wouldn't because he never stopped regularly being summoned.

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If that were really the case, I would have expected Koji Fox aka Fernehalwes to explain it that way. But he said quite clearly that elder primals are "elders" simply because they've been around for that much longer. It's really that simple.

As for whether it was primals or a surge of aether that burst forth from Silvertears Lake after the destruction of the Agrius, I'd go with 'Moose's theory that it wasn't the primals per se that were locked away. I prefer the idea that the surge of prayers in the immediate aftermath of the battle was so strong that the newly released aether were able to coalesce into the primals almost instantly.

It's a bit like the Big Bang: We went from utter nothingness into an infinity of everything in just one second.