Ehcatl Sealant....

Around 250k on the markets, You guys do realize you can get this stuff for free, don't you?

Only if you've levelled up ixals enough to start getting oak knots. Because they are only really good for levelling up lower crafting classes, a lot of high end crafter's never bothered with them, hence the demand for sealant. Price will fall once they level the tribe up enough to start getting it themselves

400-500 on Behemoth :D

Server Firsts ain't got no time for daily resets, yo.

Free? Don't you value your time? As a crafter it's much more efficient for me to just buy them, I make much more per hour crafting.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Around 250k on the markets, You guys do realize you can get this stuff for free, don't you?

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You get 6/8ths of one free per day assuming you never skip days ever, yes. You need much more than that to do anything meaningful with them.

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Originally Posted by KillyBamp

Because they are only really good for levelling up lower crafting classes, a lot of high end crafter's never bothered with them, hence the demand for sealant.

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You snooze you lose...lol

1.5m on Zalera :( And yeah it takes a bloody long time to get them "for free".

In principle this is a very clever way of shifting money around. Level 15 crafters can do these easy jobs for 10-15 mins / day and make a lot of money from high level crafting. But not many people (at least on Zalera) have figured out that this easy money is there for the taking...

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

You snooze you lose...lol

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Indeed, I'm loving the fact that I do, and have done these quests pretty much every day. Made 5m in the last 2 days from this alone.

when you need 8 oakknots for 1 sealant and 3-6 sealants to create stuff... well its simple math isn't it.

and this isn't even taking into account the fact people are crafting the new tools and gear to sell so even more demand.

so basically if you want this gear quickly you either buy of mb or craft buying mats. because as someone already posted it would take months to get all the sealant you need for every doh/l class. and no current crafter is waiting that long doing boring content. (yes I have cleared it, and yes I am earning sealants but im buying way more)

Free ... if you don't mind waiting a month to get everything.

If you want everything, you won't get it in a month. 10 offhand tools (8x DOH and 2x DOL) and each one of them needs 6 sealants so you need 60 sealants in total, assuming you HQ each one of them at your first try. 60x6 = 360 Ixal items. 6 per day means you need 60 days in total.

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Originally Posted by TimGoodacre

1.5m on Zalera :( And yeah it takes a bloody long time to get them "for free".

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Wow. What is going on with your server?

Here on Hyperion they've fluctuated between 200k-350k. Sometimes dip to just above 150k.

The Undercutting war is real.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Wow. What is going on with your server?

Here on Hyperion they've fluctuated between 200k-350k. Sometimes dip to just above 150k.

The Undercutting war is real.

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Crappy economy on Zalera. Very slow, and getting more so. If the sealants were 200k I'd have the lot by now. On the upside I just sold 2 canopy beds for 3m each :)

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Originally Posted by TomTom1968

If you want everything, you won't get it in a month. 10 offhand tools (8x DOH and 2x DOL) and each one of them needs 6 sealants so you need 60 sealants in total, assuming you HQ each one of them at your first try. 60x6 = 360 Ixal items. 6 per day means you need 60 days in total.

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This is the way you got to level 50 in the old days, so its a cake walk.

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Originally Posted by TomTom1968

If you want everything, you won't get it in a month. 10 offhand tools (8x DOH and 2x DOL) and each one of them needs 6 sealants so you need 60 sealants in total, assuming you HQ each one of them at your first try. 60x6 = 360 Ixal items. 6 per day means you need 60 days in total.

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your forgetting the new clothes which while not as big a stat boost as the offhands each one requires 3 sealants for 9 and 12 for another 21 * 8 / 6 is another 28 days of quests.

also your match is wrong since its 8 oaknots for each sealant not 6 so 60*8/6 80 days in total (it takes 1 and 1/3 days to get 1 sealant) so for all the new gear your looking at 108 days to get it all at yourself (assuming your starting from 0)

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Originally Posted by Yonko

so for all the new gear your looking at 108 days to get it all at yourself (assuming your starting from 0)

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And for those of you who do no find it obvious, it is this fac, tha is very daunting to many players.

Fortunately I had 150 Oaknots saved up. I did, in fact, HQ my first 3 off hands in one try each. They are the ones I needed to get started. I'm having a friend craft my new Atisan gear as I get the materials. After Artisan, I'll save up for my off hands, and save Foragers till th last, since I can already gather from all of the nodes in the game, and get more than enough HQ Ore to suit my needs.

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Originally Posted by Yonko

your forgetting the new clothes which while not as big a stat boost as the offhands each one requires 3 sealants for 9 and 12 for another 21 * 8 / 6 is another 28 days of quests.

also your match is wrong since its 8 oaknots for each sealant not 6 so 60*8/6 80 days in total (it takes 1 and 1/3 days to get 1 sealant) so for all the new gear your looking at 108 days to get it all at yourself (assuming your starting from 0)

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Doh, yeah it's 8 sealants, sry. And I did not include the master recipies because I do not have them and probably never will as it looks right now.

All that matter is i made a ton of gil selling my oaknots :3

It'd have been nice if these Sealants weren't tradable and came from a new Ixali token. As it is now the people that are rich and controlling the economy can just buy the sealants and the people that are behind continue to be behind because they actually need to farm these quests.

What's the point of having a crafting mat that's linked to a beast tribe quest and dailies (time throttled) if people can just skip all of this with gil?

This is comparable to having the new set of DoW/DoM gear be Soldery tokens and making Soldery tokens tradable for 2.4.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Around 250k on the markets, You guys do realize you can get this stuff for free, don't you?

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People who did the Ixal quests can get it for free
people who don't like to put some work into it should buy it with gil from people who did the work.

This is how MMO markets work ^^

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Originally Posted by Felis

People who did the Ixal quests can get it for free
people who don't like to put some work into it should buy it with gil from people who did the work.

This is how MMO markets work ^^

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It's not really a matter of work but rather the lack of any chance for people to catch up in crafting. If a crafter can afford to buy the sealants he's going to do it because getting those off hands gives him an advantage. A crafter trying to catch up doesn't have this luxury.

Which leads to the question of why bother attaching these mats to a daily if you are going to just let the rich crafters (or RMTers) skip all the "time gated" aspect and get to the finish line? It's not like it's going to make a dent in the crafters wallet and they'll make it all back when they start selling the high end items.

It just seems like it would have made more sense to have these be untradable so that people actually had to go through and acquire the mats themselves (like the Artisan Main Hand HQ turn ins) rather than just letting people buy their way through it all.

I'm just not sure what they were going for with the way these were implemented.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

It's not really a matter of work but rather the lack of any chance for people to catch up in crafting.

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It's the same way for everything. You don't just ding 50 as a DoW/DoM and get fully equipped in top level gear in a week or two. Within a couple major patches, you can very easily be on top.

Top tier crafters have put in quite a bit of effort to be in that position, you can easily reach it too with much less effort than it took them. If you don't want to put in the effort, you're always going to be a tier or two down from them.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

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I think you are slightly missing my point. The Oaknots are, more or less, equivalent to tomestones in the sense that they are time limited.

Now using your DoW/DoM analogy, imagine if the Ironworks gear cost soldiery (which people would have had capped) and the tomes were tradable. This is the same thing as releasing a new tier of crafting mats that cost the same token that the previous tier and having it be tradable.

Saying that I don't want to put in the effort is kind of a dubious argument on your part. I'm saying that rich crafters are buying the sealants, thus skipping the Ixali Quest line and all the dailies associated with farming up sealants. Isn't that also lack of effort?

>Every single crafting update

"This new crafting thing is too expensive!"
"lol stop being poor"

I hate sealant but if you're willing to take the risk, just devote all your money earned into buying sealant and materia. Instant catch-up. The real problem with the sealant is the non-crafters are the ones getting filthy rich from this while struggling-to-catchup crafters are being screwed over by it. Oh well, it's no longer my problem but still definitely a screwed up system.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

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So people that have worked hard to be at the top have an easier time staying at the top than someone starting out? That's pretty much every single aspect of every single MMO.

You sound like you want to be on equal footing with the top tier crafters, but even if they had made the sealant untradable that wouldn't be the case. Sealant isn't the only bottleneck in hitting 4 star crafting.

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Originally Posted by Songi

I hate sealant but if you're willing to take the risk, just devote all your money earned into buying sealant and materia. Instant catch-up. The real problem with the sealant is the non-crafters are the ones getting filthy rich from this while struggling-to-catchup crafters are being screwed over by it. Oh well, it's no longer my problem but still definitely a screwed up system.

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This is exactly my point. I'm farming my own Sealant, but I can't help but think why I even bother doing this because at the end of the day selling the Sealant will probably net me more profit than getting the off hand and the people that are already rich are just going to buy the Sealants faster than I can farm them anyway.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

So people that have worked hard to be at the top have an easier time staying at the top than someone starting out? That's pretty much every single aspect of every single MMO.

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Let's take SCoB. Some people beat T9 in a month and some people beat it in 3 months. When 2.4 dropped you were on the same playing field as any other group on FCoB so long as you beat T9 because your item progression is capped. So no, you are wrong.

And yes, I expect them to let people be on an equal footing when they release new content otherwise people never have a real opportunity to catch. What is really the point of doing crafting if you just keep getting further and further behind because you have to invest time in the dailies when other people can just buy their way into the fast lane. All the PvE token gear is basically built around this concept when they release a new tier of gear. It's really not that hard of a concept.

I don't know why people complain that "filthy non-crafters" are getting knots/sealants and selling them. You know these aren't the easiest thing in the world if you don't even have one high level craft, right? Most of them are easy, but if you have to forfeit one for the day because of something like High Wind in Ishgard because it takes you an hour to make one HQ of the three needed (because you have no useful crossclasses), that cuts into your daily knots.

Furthermore, the time investment. I'm bringing up alts that happen to have 50 CUL already and it's still going to take a week before I have increased sealant production rate. Judge the market in a month when insane no-lifers have it on farm with multiple characters. Price will drop, supply will go up.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

Let's take SCoB. Some people beat T9 in a month and some people beat it in 3 months. When 2.4 dropped you were on the same playing field as any other group on FCoB so long as you beat T9 because your item progression is capped. So no, you are wrong.

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And the people that never did first turn aren't beating final coil now. They have to catch up, which is easier than it was for the top level raiders back then, before they can push ahead with the top content.

The people that beat T9 and 3 star master crafters from before 2.4 are in the same boat.

As far as selling your sealant, if you were in the 3 star boat you could make several times as much turning it into offhand tools, at least on my server.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

And the people that never did first turn aren't beating final coil now. They have to catch up, which is easier than it was for the top level raiders back then, before they can push ahead with the top content.

The people that beat T9 and 3 star master crafters from before 2.4 are in the same boat.

As far as selling your sealant, if you were in the 3 star boat you could make several times as much turning it into offhand tools, at least on my server.

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I could do 3-star crafting before 2.4 went out, but without a Supra. I didn't level GSM desynth because BSM, ALC and ARM are what I wanted to go. After seeing how absurdly skewed Mastercraft Demimateria was between GSM and everything else I lost motivation in getting there in a rush. Perhaps I'm missing something but MCDs are brokenly in favor of GSM to the point where you almost are required to level it if you want your Supras. I'm assuming the new artisan tools that are craftable will open more routes, but 8 days for a chance to get them seems pretty rough compared to the ease of Artisan Specs.

Off hands (NQ) on my server go for about as much as the sealants to make them. This isn't including the other mats required to make them. I realize I'm from a smaller server (Mateus) and the economy is likely botched horribly compared to a bigger server. From what I've been told HQing this is absurdly difficult in the sense that you need very good RNG.

And I'm assuming the bigger bottle neck you are referring to is the x3 HQ turn-ins for the Mastercraft II Books?

Artisan tools are just 3 star synths, the only difficulty is the 6 sealant can't be HQ. If you get the other items HQ you start with about 700 Quality.

The books are one of the other bottlenecks, mostly for the fieldcraft III. If you don't have leather desynth, you might as well just buy them off the market or have a friend that does and offer to buy in bulk off him. I desynthed 100 boots the other day, got over 30 FCIII for 600k, plus half a stack of wool cloth and some hard hippo leather.

Another bottleneck is the materia to meld onto them, it really starts to add up when you need to overmeld at least 2 tier III materia per tool. Another is the mastercraft if you still need to get supras. You can get mastercraft from forager hats if you have weaver desynth leveled, but it's a slower pace than making tomato relish for hours on end.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

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1.) Sealants are easy to buy or easy to get from dailies. You take time to make gil or do your daily quests.
2.) BSM is the best for getting MCD, you make and break artisan/forager tools and get 3 at a time. You sell 1 and it pays for 10-15 sealants.
3.) Offhands are 3 star and a joke to HQ
4.) Unlocking 4 star is 10x harder then anything unless you are a skilled crafter. If you just used others macros for 3 star or less, then you have to rely on RNG from hell. There was a few posts on how to do this manually without macros that works very well using hasty and rapid. This method is not "100%" but I made my HQ turn ins in 4-5 tries and reclaimed the low-quality ones, I am 12/16 HQ on 4 stars using this same method (I use NQ mats).

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Originally Posted by Rath

2.) BSM is the best for getting MCD, you make and break artisan/forager tools and get 3 at a time. You sell 1 and it pays for 10-15 sealants.

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"Up to" 3. I desynthed artisan needle and got a mere 1 FC3. It's not worth the gamble unless you do not have GSM desynth (even then, it'd be better to just do GSM).

Furthermore you could easily get about as lucky on Specs and get 1/5 where you go 0/1 for your triple chance on tool.

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Originally Posted by Rath

1.) Sealants are easy to buy or easy to get from dailies. You take time to make gil or do your daily quests.
2.) BSM is the best for getting MCD, you make and break artisan/forager tools and get 3 at a time. You sell 1 and it pays for 10-15 sealants.
3.) Offhands are 3 star and a joke to HQ

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1) I never said they were hard to get from dailies. Also it varies from server, but on mine they go for 400k per sealant. My point is why make them attached to a daily if you are going to make them sellable.

2) 50 HQ turn ins for one attempt that has the chance to drop 1-3 or 5 attempts at getting a chance to drop 1. Even if it were guarranteed to drop 3, the Artisan specs win unless the tools have a higher drop percentage than specs do.

3) I'm not really sure how I see this considering the 6 sealants aren't HQable. All I can say is I've only seen 1 HQ artisan up on the board and from talking with other crafters on the server there is a decent amount of RNG involved to get it HQ.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

"Up to" 3. I desynthed artisan needle and got a mere 1 FC3. It's not worth the gamble unless you do not have GSM desynth (even then, it'd be better to just do GSM).

Furthermore you could easily get about as lucky on Specs and get 1/5 where you go 0/1 for your triple chance on tool.

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Do would you happen to know if a successful desynth of an artisan weapon increases your desynth the same as an artisan spec? I realize this is a full patch ago but I'm blown away how easy GSM has it.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

Do would you happen to know if a successful desynth of an artisan weapon increases your desynth the same as an artisan spec? I realize this is a full patch ago but I'm blown away how easy GSM has it.

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You have 50% success rate for an item of the same recipe/i level as your desynth. You will have 50% chance at a i70 item (like Arty specs or tools) at 70, and 100 at 100. It's not exactly a 1 to 1 increase, just 30 over cap is the point when you hit 100% success and stop getting skill (speaking strictly for the higher levels, not always true for extremely low levels).

So, yes.

And yes, they are both level 70, so they would give the same increase to desynth. They will level you up to 100, but it will be incredibly slow for the last 20 levels; it will take you about a thousand of them to hit 100.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

And yes, they are both level 70, so they would give the same increase to desynth. They will level you up to 100, but it will be incredibly slow for the last 20 levels; it will take you about a thousand of them to hit 100.

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Thanks. And one last thing. Do you know if the drop rates of MCD are the same between Specs and Tools? I'm aware tools can drop up to 3, but I find it absurd to say that this some how balances the 5x cost that every craft besides GSM (and Weaver) have to pay to get these. That's not even taking into consideration that it's statistically more favorable to take 5 cracks at it for 1 than 1 crack at it for a possible 3. I'd think there would be some type of higher percentage to balance this out.

Did they really want to pigeon hole everyone into leveling GSM as a desynth?

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

"Up to" 3. I desynthed artisan needle and got a mere 1 FC3. It's not worth the gamble unless you do not have GSM desynth (even then, it'd be better to just do GSM).

Furthermore you could easily get about as lucky on Specs and get 1/5 where you go 0/1 for your triple chance on tool.

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You can always get 0, but I have only ever received 3 MCD when I get MCD from an artisan or forager tool. The key you are missing is the forager tools are FREE and take a minute or so of your time to work towards every game day. Also, I have gsm at 100 and BSM at 100. Before I leveled bsm I made 10 specs a day and usually got 1mcd every 2 days, some days I did get two, but some I also got 0. I then leveled bsm and make 2 tools a day, that is the same amount of synthes (and to the person that said "HQ synthes", really? these are 100% with a macro) I get MCD once every 3 days, that is 3 MCD in 3 days or 1 in two days, both with 100 synthes a day. Plus you get them from miner and botanist tools every couple days if lucky.

Edit: I have also tried Artisan needles with my gsm and have never received MCD from them. I make them whenever I get enough HQ twinthread from desynthing bridal pants. If anyone has obtained any from an Artisan needle, please confirm if you can, I am beginning to wonder.

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Originally Posted by Rath

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There are a lot of statistics here that we don't know and just because you have only seen 3 doesn't mean that is always the case.

If the tools have a higher percentage chance to yield MCD, maybe double what the specs do, then yes maybe those are on par. But with the way RNG can be, having 5 chances at 1 is more favorable than having 1 chance at 3 because you are less susceptible to bad RNG. Once again, this assumes they have the same MCD drop rate.

The only argument that you really bring up that is good is that BSM can desynth Foragers as well as artisan which allows them to double dip. If you went with the forager hat's and artisan specs you'd have to have GSM and Weaver leveled up.