Eorzea's Voice (Change): Gathering Opinions for Ze Cash Shop

Well, first of all, decided to put the minion article on hold for a little bit, because the Cash Shop seems to be very popular topic at the moment. So, I'd like to get some official opinions on the subject (that I could personally use to write the article for Eorzea's Voice on Gamer Escape). Players can always copy and paste their opinions from other threads, and I will use as many responses as I am able to (as I will also be interviewing players in-game and using the Lodestone). Thank you for your participation!

As long as the Cash Shop sticks to vanity items that don't affect game balance, then there's no problem with it.

I think it is a great idea and I can't wait to buy some minions and mounts on the shop.

Really want them to put the ponies from EX primals because I done them for about 200 hours seen 5 ponies drop and never won the roll.

Omg I thought this thread was talking about more options for voice options! Hahaha I would totally pay to have more options to choose from. XD;

As it stands, being just vanity items, I don't care. I won't be using it since I'm not the sort of player who cares about mounts and minions etc.

Quoting myself from a different thread;

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Some people will tell you that the income from the cash shop will make the game better for everyone.

Personally, I think those people just don't realize that the stuff they're buying from the cash shop was made using our subscription money and should have been put in the game for us to aquire in the first place, not sold for more money. From now on, some development hours will flow into making minions, mounts etc. for sale in the cash shop, hours that would have otherwise flown into making minions, mounts etc. for us to earn in-game.
So far, I felt like paying our subscription granted us access to everything the game had to offer. Well, not anymore, now.

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So far I have nothing against it, but I will agree that it has the potential to upset a significant portion of the player base. For example:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Really want them to put the ponies from EX primals because I done them for about 200 hours seen 5 ponies drop and never won the roll.

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No offense or anything but I HIGHLY disagree with you. Those horses are the ultimate reward of skill, persistence, and luck. It is probably many (of the few that own one) people's most prized possession, and allowing another player to buy it for x amount of dollars would completely take away the value of having one of those horses.

As long as the content in the cash shop is filled with solely aesthetics that can't be obtained otherwise, I will completely support it. But please, PLEASE don't add any of the mounts that are gained from EX primals in there, or crafting materials/ primal furniture, etc, because right now those are the only things keeping the old EX primals relevant.

Also, I'm a huge fan of them adding old seasonal event costumes in the cash shop. I definitely plan to buy the ghost costume that came out for the halloween event back in 2013 that I missed. :D

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Originally Posted by Leira_Raine

So, I'd like to get some official opinions on the subject (that I could personally use to write the article for Eorzea's Voice on Gamer Escape).

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The critical concern is that this may very well be the first step towards a pay-to-win environment. While we can argue whether or not WoW's Level 90 offer is effective or not, the point is that people are able to purchase their way through the game in some form.) I've seen more than enough games start out with what appears to be an innocent enough cash shop for cosmetic "extras" move to the abusive cash shops we have in most Free-to-Play games today and this is what really terrifies me the most.

I don't object to a cosmetic item being sold (minion, mount) as I've been more than happy to grab the Postal Moogle, Art Book, Soundtracks (both), and so on. However I'm concerned that the back-end support for a cash shop will inevitably lead to the implementation of a Free-to-Play model.

When it comes down to it, I believe that SE believes that they'll stick to a fair no-pay-to-win setup but many others have failed to keep up to that promise.

No subscription game should ever offer items in its cash shop that are not attainable through normal game play means. To do so is double dipping your customer base. I am fine with those that like cash shops for the ease of access, some people do not have the time to gather, hunt, craft whatever the items through normal means. But to make anything exclusive to the cash shop when we are already paying them a sub is pure greed and playing on the impulse nature of the player base. Have all the cash shop items you want but put all those items in game or... do like Secret World does and give all subscriptions an amount of cash shop money every month for their sub that they can use to buy all the cash shop items.

I don't mind the implementation of the Cash Shop really, coming from and playing for many years in a previous pay to play mmo that has such a cash shop i'm pretty much used to it, and I will admit to having had purchased vanity items such as mounts and pets (yes i'm talking about WoW), as long as SE sticks to only selling vanity items i'm ok with it..

A question comes to mind tho...why when a company like blizzard has such a cash shop in place almost no one says anything?...as far as i can remember there was no major negative feedback when it was implemented like SE is getting now for the implementation of their own cash shop, although its been many years my memory might be faulting so there may have been, but as it stands now its been fine.

And i agree with Riepah's opinion to a point, but i hope that the cash shop will offer more in the future...just imagine them selling more than just vanity items...like say FF XIV plush toys or action figures, and yes i very well know the SE store offers those things already, but future items like those could be offered only on the XIV cash shop...food for thought.

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Originally Posted by Nici

A question comes to mind tho...why when a company like blizzard has such a cash shop in place almost no one says anything?...as far as i can remember there was no major negative feedback when it was implemented like SE is getting now for the implementation of their own cash shop, although its been many years my memory might be faulting so there may have been, but as it stands now its been fine.

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There was the same type of complaining by some people on their forums when it launched but then after awhile nobody cared.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

There was the same type of complaining by some people on their forums when it launched but then after awhile nobody cared.

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Which will also happen here. One can only complain for so long until they finally realize that nothing changed.

If it's stuff we get from veteran's reward at a later date, I'm cool with it.

Will things change? Probably not, doesn't mean it's a great idea.

A subscription based game should not have a cash shop. Simple as that.

Opinions are like... you know what. That being said, and for what it's worth:

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

1) Before the introduction of the cash shop you could buy past years' event items for a small gil fee. Now you have to pay real cash, just because.

2) As the dev. team doesn't have unlimited time, it means that part of the time that would otherwise go to develop things for everyone to enjoy will go now to the cash shop.

3) We're more than sure that they'll throw the cool looking designs to the cash shop, and the normal/ugly ones will be the ones that we'll get for "free". You don't have to be very smart to see that, as they want to be able to SELL them, not having them sitting there with no sales.

4) We already had this discussion when the extra retainers were introduced, with people saying "it won't get worse, you're paranoid", "it's just retainers, they won't put a cash shop", and "I'm sure that ventures will be hard to get", among other excuses. History is repeating again, and some people keep their blindfolds no matter what.

5) We're already paying a sub, and the game is very successful. SE doesn't need the money and, coupled with 1), it's a slap in the face of all of their customers. In other words, this not very customer friendly, and we're in our right to voice our concerns (and even stop paying if we so want).

6) Just because it's vanity that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. Everyone plays (or has been playing for over 4 years) the game for a reason, and they're in their right to enjoy it doing whatever they want to do. Just because you only care about raids that doesn't mean that other people shouldn't enjoy collecting vanity items (see housing, for instance). Getting some of it out of their reach all of a sudden is a cheap move on SE's part.

7) Minions attached to physical items don't fall under a cash shop category, even if they're almost crossing the line. After all, what you're supposed to be buying is the physical thing, and the minion is a gift. Not to mention that physical items can't be produced as fast as digital ones, so this doesn't have the same screwing potential as a cash shop does.

8) Expansions are NOT the same thing as this. The price of it VS it's value regarding content, systems, etc. is more fair that paying 2-5€ for a single digital item.

9) If we wanted to have a cash shop we could be playing another MMO, even those P2P ones that already had one. Maybe we were here partly because it didn't have that "feature"?

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As it stands now there are several vanity items which are no longer obtainable. Items like the "Snow" and "Lightning" outfits as well as the XIII weapon skins. FFXI and DQ minions are unavailable to any player who had missed or started after the special event. Do we expect them to run these special events indefinitely?

Maybe you joined or came back to the game a week after the summer event ended, and you just love the way the yukatas look. What effect does it have on the player community if a person chooses to spend extra money on an item that is seasonal or previously but no longer available in game?

Why not add these items to a cash shop?

Is it a sentiment of "I was there and you weren't" mentality similar to how some people feel about echo in the coil?

They aren't selling instant Atma --> Animus --> Novus --> Nexus upgrades here.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Opinions are like... you know what. That being said, and for what it's worth:

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Mmm.. I forgot for a little bit of time that extra Retainers were an extra thing.

I do not think SE will hold to its word, and not because they've flip flopped on other issues. Already I'm seeing players attempting to justify p2w deals on the cash shop. Even with Yoshida's assurances, SE is a company at the end of the day. And I believe they will give in to the temptation and attempt to sucker new and existing players with deals to go buy advancement, items, or levels. And people will defend it, saying that "its not bis, so its OK." , "money will never buy skill." Or "its only DoH."

The fact of the matter is this is not the first company that claimed to have made a vanity only cash shop. And if wouldn't be the last to renege on that promise if it did.

A cash shop is nothing like buying a soundtrack that comes with a code for an in-game item. The soundtrack/book/doll/etc has value beyond just a slip of paper inside. Someone may buy the item solely for the code, but that doesn't take away the fact that you are paying for and investing in more than just that one aspect of the purchase. I'm okay with investing in items like this. I know what all I'm getting out of the deal and am happy with that.

I'm very disappointed that they are going the cash shop route, especially since it is still vague as to how this revenue will be used. At the London festival they gave examples of how it theoretically could be used, but nothing listed concretely. That they are adding the shop in 2.4 yet don't know clearly how they are using that additional income makes me hesitant to invest in it. If I knew with certainty that buying a Slepnir mount directly went to housing server expansion, for example, I'd probably be more open to it. Transparency on the shop regarding what these funds are going towards would do a lot to ease those concerns and show goodwill to the player base that the development team's future focus is not going to be using their resources to pack the shop, that they will continue to bring solid content and vanity to regular subscribers who don't use the shop.

Finally, 'pay to win' cash shops are not the only kind that can be harmful or negative to customers. I've seen vanity shop systems, such as the one in TERA, which can be just as unpleasant. I want to know that Yoshida and the XIV team will not go this route over time either.

This is what I was thinking Icefall since you mentioned how it is vague to how the money could be invested.

I think to showcase an even more transparent aspect as to how the cash shop will be used to add even more items, they should allow people who purchase items through the cash shop to vote for what they would like to see in the future, and every month the polls could be made public and as a show of god faith they would focus on adding in new cash shops items that the people want.

AKA as an example you buy x minion and get the option to vote what you would like to see next, FF nostalgia, eorzea related, vanity costume. and then another choice could be used to expand, "cross-over event", "cosplay like outfits/weapons", unique mounts, unique minions from x series etc. This way people could visually see that their money is being spent to further expand the system and on the advantage of SE the one with the highest vote would most likely obtain the most profit so they would be in a win win, they make what people want and the people show that they want it with their money.

The Cash Shop is a response to the community's willingness to pay real-life money for in-game items. Of that, I have no doubts.

As long as the cash shop remains constricted to the following conditions, I will continue to support it as a service:

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-No items that directly affect gameplay. That includes items that alter stats or directly alter any other facet of gameplay with its use beyond triggering a universal cooldown from its use or applying a purely aesthetic effect to items or actions (i.e. fireworks, special glamour prisms, special dyes, special glow effects, etc).

-No items that look noticeably better designed than pieces released in the previous, current, or upcoming patch. That means it has to be reasonably comparable. No raid gear that looks like rags while the cash shop gets riches. Exceptions to this rule include Cross-Promotional gear (i.e. FFXIII, DQX, FFXI, FFXV, FFT0, FFVII, etc) and Seasonal Gear (Moonfire Faire, All Saint's Wake, Valentione's Day, Little Ladies' Day, etc.).

-No FFXIV 1.X glamours without putting it to a community vote first.

-No Reward or Bonus Items. That includes (but is not limited to) Pre-Order Bonuses, Collector's Edition Bonuses, TGS Earrings, Contest Chokers, Fanfest gifts, and Special Codes from Physical Merchandise.

-If special hairstyles, facepaint, or body tattoos get added to the cash shop, the FFXIV 1.X back tattoo is not allowed to be sold. The FFXIII hairstyles, however, would be permitted.

-All Cross-Promotional and Seasonal Items should have an event tied to them with all items made available through in-game methods for them to be attainable on the cash shop in the next patch after the event ends.

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As long as those conditions are met, I will be more than happy to continue my support of a cash shop.

Full Disclosure: I do not own any 1.X items, I do not have the 1.X back tattoo, I do not have the Mandragora Choker item from the more current events. With these conditions, I would likely never get any of those items except through in-game means.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

TOO LONG!

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^THIS GUY
Totally agree with; those are some solid points.

I mean let's take a look at some commonly themed cash shop PAY TO WIN items.

A lot of people are worried about what it'll mean for the future of FFXIV's "Optional Items Shop"
But seriously, why worry that far ahead, this game will have to really tank in the months to come for them to RELY on cash shop revenue to keep their paychecks coming.

I simply CANNOT see them putting in a "Character BOOST to LV50 option" as they did in WoW (1-90 for 60$ LOL), I mean that's a 60$ boost to max level with "appropriate gear", and WoW's toons don't have 20 classes on their's, an option like this is simply ridiculous for FFXIV.

EXP Boost Potions? BE SERIOUS, We already have Helm of Light 1-10, Armoury Bonus 1-50 (AFTER HAVING A LV50), Heat of the Battle I + II

STAT Boost Potions? WE HAVE ECHO its FREE

Increase Drop Rate Potion? Ninja has Mug, plus WTF are you going to increase drop rate on? Open world monsters? LOL, they don't drop squat, Blood spatter logs on NMs? Really now their SOO EASY to get.

What pay to win feature can they add in this game that will break it's mechanics?

Vanity is Vanity, as long as they don't do stuff some of these people already stated, like make normal gear look like complete trash and cash costumes look amazing (LOL DRAGON NEST).

THIS SHIP (Censored myself there guess what I said) IS HANDED TO US ALREADY LOL.

If you are truly looking for opinions, please read this thread. It has a lot of back and forth from both sides of the fence:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...shop-confirmed

And I have a feeling the majority of people against it are tired of repeating the same thing over and over again so you'll likely see less responding here.

Something I said in another thread:

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

[Quote: What content is being locked behind the cash shop? Because vanity, pets and mounts really aren't content.]

Maybe not to you. But considering that a large portion of crafter "end game" is vanity gear (spring dress/skirt, glasses, swim suits -- yes, desynthing counts as part of the crafter experience, possibly gatherer [experience] as well), it does raise questions regarding what will happen to their end game if the cash shop starts taking pieces of the gear they'd normally be producing. I know several people who have one or two combat classes at 50, but prefer to spend their game time with their eight DoH 50s, crafting things and either using the items themselves, giving them to friends (or selling at discount/mat price), or putting up on the marketboard for other players.

There are people who don't log in with Progression foremost in their mind. There are even those who wouldn't care less if they had an option to unlock an extra Final Coil run for the current week... for a price, because that's not content they're interested in. Just as vanity is content you're not as interested in. Just as that extra coil run would count as P2W for some, those exclusive vanity items count as P2W for others.

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Originally Posted by Nici

A question comes to mind tho...why when a company like blizzard has such a cash shop in place almost no one says anything?...as far as i can remember there was no major negative feedback when it was implemented like SE is getting now for the implementation of their own cash shop, although its been many years my memory might be faulting so there may have been, but as it stands now its been fine.

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They had threads like this in their forums and also a lot of angry posters in the official news article. They still implemented it anyway and it's working good for them.