Why is SE so passionate about giving PLD's Critical Hit Rate on their gear?

Why is SE so passionate about giving PLD's Critical Hit Rate on their gear?

Probably because Parry is crap.

Because it makes the Flash HIT HARDER!!!

Guaranteed :=O)

because they get a skill at lvl 51 that makes your crit rate attribute make enemies want to crit you more often?

What's so bad about crit? :/

Because your threat sucks compared to a Warriors thats why.

Same reason they give it to any other class. Increase that deeps!

Yoshi just told me, he's gonna give you mega skill speed and no accuracy on your gear since you don't want crit

/loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

Yoshi just told me, he's gonna give you mega skill speed and no accuracy on your gear since you don't want crit

/loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

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Skill speed and acc are both quite a lot more useful lol, not sure what you're going for here.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Skill speed and acc are both quite a lot more useful lol, not sure what you're going for here.

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Say that after doing T7 and T8 on PLD. SS is the worst DPS stat by far for PLD, just because of how draining 123 is without any means to get TP back other than Paeon or Shield Swiping.

Probably because there are only 5 secondary stats and every piece of gear has 2? You don't want more than capped accuracy and skillspeed is really lackluster since it affects GCD and nothing else. Really, what else would you want? Just double DET on everything or loads of nearly useless parry?

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Say that after doing T7 and T8 on PLD. SS is the worst DPS stat by far for PLD, just because of how draining 123 is without any means to get TP back other than Paeon or Shield Swiping.

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Don't see the problem. In lieu of Paeon you can spam Stoneskin on yourself a few times in T7 (especially when you have Voice on you). In T8 you shouldn't especially have TP issues once brainjack phase starts.

I have a 2.40 GCD due to my Ruby accessories, technically faster since our SCH uses Selene, and my TP is "fine". I only take the aformentioned Stoneskin TP to ease time for healers and make sure I don't run out of TP mid-FoF.

SS is the worst stats for all class, not just Paladin, even for MNK.

Back to the topic: Because War is SE beloved child.

P/S: Nothing wrong with having more Crit than Parry. I personally prefer to balance out between Parry and Crit for good defence and good DPS

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Originally Posted by LionKing

SS is the worst stats for all class, not just Paladin, even for MNK.

Back to the topic: Because War is SE beloved child.

P/S: Nothing wrong with having more Crit than Parry. I personally prefer to balance out between Parry and Crit for good defence and good DPS

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Skill speed is the same importance as Crit on MNK.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

Nope, the more SS you have, the more struggle with TP you have in a long fight. Take T8 for example. I take SS as granted, never one it is one of my priority when it comes to gearing. The order should be Acc>Det>Crit>SS for MNK.

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No, I am right. Your example is quite literally the only place in the game where Skill speed is not on par with crit because there are no breaks to recover TP. Since they are the same weight, I gear Acc > Det > crit=ss (whichever is higher)

Nope, the more SS you have, the more struggle with TP you have in a long fight. Take T8 for example. I take SS as granted, never one it is one of my priority when it comes to gearing. The order should be Acc>Det>Crit>SS for MNK.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Say that after doing T7 and T8 on PLD. SS is the worst DPS stat by far for PLD, just because of how draining 123 is without any means to get TP back other than Paeon or Shield Swiping.

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Ehhhh I have done T7 and T8 on PLD, and I have no idea what type of connection you're trying to make there. While doing neither did I think to myself, "wow, I sure wish I had more crit!" PLD isn't a DPS. The SS is for using defensive/threat generating skills faster -_-; I didn't sing praises about how wonderful SS is either, I just said it's better than CRIT for a PLD, but so is almost everything... To be honest if you run out of TP you're doing it wrong, there is only so much thread that you need to generate, and there are a lot of other things you can do between rotations, put some stoneskins on your self for example, and take comfort in the fact that SS reduces the cool down of other skills besides 123. Even if you use all the CRIT that the game currently allows in gear for PLD, your damage will still be negligible... Use common sense.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

snip

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Few things:

1.) As a tank, both WAR and PLD, your main focus should be to survive. However once you reach the HP threshold for the content and have assured your survivability, DPS should be your 2nd highest priority. Whether you like it or not, your DPS contributes to the overall DPS of the group, so the key to be a good WAR/PLD is maximizing effective health to a point and then using everything else for DPSing.
2.) You gain more DPS from Crit than you do SS. You don't gain any mitigation from SS or from Crit, the only possible mitigation based secondary stats you can get are Parry (which scales like booty among a plethora of other problems) and Spell Speed (which afaik isn't available on any left side gear for PLD). Yes, the gains of any secondary stat are marginal and you can have gear with only Piety as your secondary stat and you will have only a small percent less survivability/damage over the course of the fight. This, however, goes completely against the point of your question - you could replace Crit with anything, so why does it matter that you get Crit? What would you rather have? Would you rather just have gear filled with Parry and nothing else? I'd be all for Spell Speed gear if WAR and PLD didn't share 99% of their gear, but as it stands the only things we'll get are Parry, DET and Crit. The only thing you should concentrate on is having as much of your main stats (VIT and STR) as you can get, trading VIT for STR when necessary (ie i90 crafted accessories vs i110 VIT accessories) and reach the accuracy cap for the content you are currently doing. If, one day, they make secondary stats useful then maybe you'll have some weight to your question but as of right now they could give you nothing but Crit on all your gear and it would only make the smallest of difference in your DPS, same with Parry on mitigation, etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Ehhhh I have done T7 and T8 on PLD, and I have no idea what type of connection you're trying to make there. While doing neither did I think to myself, "wow, I sure wish I had more crit!" PLD isn't a DPS. The SS is for using defensive/threat generating skills faster -_-; I didn't sing praises about how wonderful SS is either, I just said it's better than CRIT for a PLD, but so is almost everything... To be honest if you run out of TP you're doing it wrong, there is only so much thread that you need to generate, and there are a lot of other things you can do between rotations, put some stoneskins on your self for example, and take comfort in the fact that SS reduces the cool down of other skills besides 123. Even if you use all the CRIT that the game currently allows in gear for PLD, your damage will still be negligible... Use common sense.

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PLD DPS is not negligible, especially in content where you're not stuck in Shield Oath. That aside ...

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1523365/achievement/detail/890/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1523365/achievement/detail/891/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1523365/achievement/detail/892/

Whether or not you think your DPS is important or not is not in question. Because it IS important. If your monk could boost his DPS by 10, would you not expect him to? Also, Mijin you contradict yourself when you say that SS is better for using defensive/threat generating skills, and continue to say 'there is only so much threat you need to generate...'

A less experienced tank should realize when he is wrong, and just take the advice from people more experienced than himself.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/32...901/mkxCLA.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

PLD DPS is not negligible, especially in content where you're not stuck in Shield Oath. That aside ...

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/detail/890/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/detail/891/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/detail/892/

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I appreciate the effort that you're putting into what you think is discrediting me somehow, but unfortunately mapping achievements mean nothing. I took a several month hiatus from the game, and since my return a few weeks ago it is true that I've only been clearing T7 and T8 for a few weeks, but to be honest, the fact that I jumped into the content so quickly and easily after being gone so long also says something of my capabilities. You may not be aware, but the mapping achievements only show that a player has set foot in the entirety of a zone, and T7 and T8 have shortcuts provided the party leader who initiates the content has already made it to the boss in a previous party but failed to clear. When you are joining pugs, at least one out of eight people so very often have the shortcut unlocked for T7 or T8 that I have yet to even set foot in the maps outside of the boss fights there. I also have yet to attempt T7 with the same group as T8, so there is obviously no reason for me to have the mapping achievement, but it's also obvious that this has nothing at all to do with the fact that I have done the content.

Proof that I've at least cleared T7 this week.
Log file proof of T7.

So as you can see, I'm in the exact same place that you are, and if we're to go by your mapping theory, it seems that you've been stuck on T8 for quite some time. It will be interesting to see which one of us finish first.

That being said...T7 and T8 have no barring on the subject of this thread whatsoever, you only brought it up because you mistakenly thought you could prove that I haven't done them, and for some weird reason you thought completing T7 was something worthy of bragging about; it isn't. Since you're trying to assert your self-perceived superiority let me point a few things out.

I mastered this game before you even started playing.
I've cleared much harder content than you.

You would probably retort saying my achievements are worthless, and everything I've done is so easy because I've left you no other rhetorical options, but the difficulty of all content is subjective, and it's kind of pathetic to go around pretending to be superior to other people on the internet. I presume the because of your low self-esteem you're actually seeking affirmation of your self-worth through a video game character, yet you even got shot down in that category; that has to hurt.

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

Whether or not you think your DPS is important or not is not in question. Because it IS important. If your monk could boost his DPS by 10, would you not expect him to? Also, Mijin you contradict yourself when you say that SS is better for using defensive/threat generating skills, and continue to say 'there is only so much threat you need to generate...'

A less experienced tank should realize when he is wrong, and just take the advice from people more experienced than himself.

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

Mijin you contradict yourself when you say that SS is better for using defensive/threat generating skills, and continue to say 'there is only so much threat you need to generate...'

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

using defensive/threat generating skills, and continue to say 'there is only so much threat you need to generate...'

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

using defensive

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

contradict yourself

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I didn't contradict myself in any way, but it's really ironic that you just did. I was talking about being able to use defensive and threat generating skills faster. The faster you can get your threat capped, the faster you can use defensive skills. I didn't say anything about generating more threat (lol). By your post I can tell you have poor writing skills, so it's also fair to assume that your reading comprehension is probably also low, and as such I can see how you made such a mistake. That was funny though. Oh and I have quite a lot more experience than you, so be more careful with your words.

While the lesser DMG that tanks do may be considered important sometimes when the fight is a DPS race, the amount of DPS that CRIT will add to PLD is negligible. With all of the CRIT anyone can equip on PLD, the resulting increase in DMG is small. Regardless, in reference to your MNK comment, PLD isn't a DPS, defense should pretty much ALWAYS be a PLD's first priority. If you honestly feel you need more DPS in a particular fight go warrior.

Parry and SS are pretty negligible too, but the last thing PLD needs is CRIT (lmao). The concept is so absurd that the only place people who don't know what their talking about would actually argue about it is here. I could make a post on these forums about why rape is a bad thing, and I would get bombarded with statements defending rape, and explaining why it's good, and how I haven't even tried it. You guys are ridiculous, I love these forums. :D

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Few things:

1.) As a tank, both WAR and PLD, your main focus should be to survive. However once you reach the HP threshold for the content and have assured your survivability, DPS should be your 2nd highest priority.

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I'm gonna stop you right there. Parry and SS, regardless of how little, increase your ability to survive, which as you yourself mention is the first priority.

Come on guys. Seriously.

Forgive me I made a mistake. I thought I was discussing with someone older than twelve.

My sincerest apologies

What is the difference between:
A) PLD doing 100 DPS, DRG doing 350 DPS
and
B) PLD doing 150 DPS, DRG doing 300 DPS

Trick question, there is no difference. You end up with 450 DPS both ways.

Arguing that tank DPS "doesn't matter", for any reason, is lazy. You hold DPS to a high standard, and holding good healers to a higher standard (SCH DPS) is becoming more prevalent. Are tanks exempt because their job is "so hard"? (Spoilers: It isn't. Tanks are super easy crayon-drawing mode.)

Dying as a tank only happens for 1 of 3 reasons:

1) You forgot to pop a cooldown for a tank-killer. Your fault.
2) Your healers sucked. Healer's fault.
3) Mechanic wipes you. Somebody's fault.

None of these are gear-dependent. Parry doesn't help any of these.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

So as you can see, I'm in the exact same place that you are, and if we're to go by your mapping theory, it seems that you've been stuck on T8 for quite some time. It will be interesting to see which one of us finish first.

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Link says 4/13/2014 for Sleigh Presty. That's over 5 months ago.

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Originally Posted by Infina

Link says 4/13/2014 for Sleigh Presty. That's over 5 months ago.

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Not to mention

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/detail/889/

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Originally Posted by Mijin

So as you can see, I'm in the exact same place that you are, and if we're to go by your mapping theory, it seems that you've been stuck on T8 for quite some time. It will be interesting to see which one of us finish first.

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It says 4/14/2014 in the link you posted. Your achievements have not been gotten.

How is that the exact same place as you?

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Originally Posted by Infina

Link says 4/13/2014 for Sleigh Presty. That's over 5 months ago.

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... That's my point, there is no T9 mapping achievement, so unless they joined T9 with a shortcut every time in the last 5 months, they have't cleared T8 in that huge duration of time.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

What is the difference between:
A) PLD doing 100 DPS, DRG doing 350 DPS
and
B) PLD doing 150 DPS, DRG doing 300 DPS

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I'm going to go with C, those numbers are unrealistic.

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Dying as a tank only happens for 1 of 3 reasons:

1) You forgot to pop a cooldown for a tank-killer. Your fault.
2) Your healers sucked. Healer's fault.
3) Mechanic wipes you. Somebody's fault.

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Well this is pretty stupid, but rather that going into detail I'll give you one quick example. If a tank takes less damage healers are required to heal less, and as such they have more time/mp to heal others, this lowers the chance of people dying, and increases the overall success rate of the group. Also, mistakes are commonly made, so pretending that they never happen is a fairy tale fantasy.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

(Spoilers: It isn't. Tanks are super easy crayon-drawing mode.)

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All jobs are of equal difficulty (lol wow). Some fights are easier for some jobs that others, and vise versa. Think before you speak.

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

Forgive me I made a mistake. I thought I was discussing with someone older than twelve.

My sincerest apologies

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Yes because my articulately worded and well written response obviously shows that I'm an adolescent (lol). It's funny that you say that considering in your first post you told me that I suck (paraphrasing), and now you're essentially calling me names. In my opinion your two statements unquestionably suggest that you are a childish.

TLDR: I know you are but what am I. Keep the kindergarten sh*t coming; I love it.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

... That's my point, there is no T9 mapping achievement, so unless they joined T9 with a shortcut every time in the last 5 months, they have't cleared T8 in that huge duration of time.

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Battle > Raids > In Another Bind.

Try harder.

It's also not possible to get the mapping achievements unless you have beaten the turn; the exit area is an undiscovered section of map. So it is tantamount to a "I cleared this" in 90% of cases.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I'm going to go with C, those numbers are unrealistic.

Well this is pretty stupid, but rather that going into detail I'll give you one quick example. If a tank takes less damage healers have to heal less, and as such they have more time/mp to heal others, this lowers the chance of people trying, and increases the overall success rate of the group. Also, mistakes are commonly made, so pretending that they never happen is a fairy tale fantasy.

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Unrealistic in that in our real world scenario I can do 150 at least as MT while DRG can do 400+, yes. I was giving a very pared down example for your benefit.

"Mistakes" fall under one of the 3 categories I listed.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Battle > Raids > In Another Bind.

Try harder.

It's also not possible to get the mapping achievements unless you have beaten the turn; the exit area is an undiscovered section of map. So it is tantamount to a "I cleared this" in 90% of cases..

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That was the entire point of my post (lmfao) are you kidding me right now? Did you even read it? I'm saying that poster is in the same position I am in. They have yet to clear T8, and they're bragging about clearing T7 like it's hard. I didn't play the game for seven months, I came back and started clearing new coil content right off the bat, rust and all. I don't care how many times they've cleared T7, they've got months on me for that content, and I got it on the third try. That person has nothing to assert their authority with. /end of story.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Unrealistic in that in our real world scenario I can do 150 at least as MT while DRG can do 400+, yes. I was giving a very pared down example for your benefit.

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Unrealistic because every fight is different, and regardless of how much DMG a PLD does, the difference CRIT makes is negligible, maybe with max CRIT available 10% difference at the most, most certainly (laughs) not 50k dps. SS while adding even less damage, it still adds to both offensive and defensive capabilities. CRIT is the most useless stat you can use on a PLD. If the DMG increase from the CRIT they have available was much more substantial you might then have a valid argument, but as it stands now, it's not worth even replacing what small bonus SS offers in light of our only choices being parry, SS, or CRIT

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

everything fits into my 3 reasons for dying

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We're way off subject, but this sure isn't true. Here are just a few more examples: Lag, DC, gear sucks so they take more dmg, gear is broken, OT uses provoke by mistake, etc etc etc. Have some common sense. It's absurd to be arguing about this. It doesn't even have anything to do with the topic pf this thread. I already told you, even if you have decent healers, and people that hardly ever make mistakes on mechanics PLD's should always focus on defense rather than offense, it makes everyone else's jobs easier, but for arguments sake, those aren't the only three groups of mistakes that kill people.

P.S. It's nice that you know exactly how much damage you do from parsing it, but FFXIV APP is now considered a bannable offense. Third party software is against the ToS, and recently SE have actually started banning people for it. Of course, the only way they can find out if someone is using it is if they blatantly admit it like you just did. Sure would be a shame if some one were to report you.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

They have yet to clear T8

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Well since you don't understand what that achievement means, here you go

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they're bragging about clearing T7 like it's hard.

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Where?

By the way, your picture link doesn't work and your log doesn't say anything about Melusine dying, only that you forgot shield oath.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Ehhhh I have done T7 and T8 on PLD, and I have no idea what type of connection you're trying to make there. While doing neither did I think to myself, "wow, I sure wish I had more crit!" PLD isn't a DPS. The SS is for using defensive/threat generating skills faster -_-; I didn't sing praises about how wonderful SS is either, I just said it's better than CRIT for a PLD, but so is almost everything... To be honest if you run out of TP you're doing it wrong, there is only so much thread that you need to generate, and there are a lot of other things you can do between rotations, put some stoneskins on your self for example, and take comfort in the fact that SS reduces the cool down of other skills besides 123. Even if you use all the CRIT that the game currently allows in gear for PLD, your damage will still be negligible... Use common sense.

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Stoneskins for T7 and T8? If I have to choose between Stoneskin or DPS, I'll choose DPS.
MT casting Stoneskin should not be needed unless the healers suck.
Not to mention there aren't many windows for MT to cast Stoneskin, since most of the time the boss is attacking MT?

Also, getting all classes to 50 and completing relic quests are definitely not proof of skills.
It just shows you play more often.

Edit: Wow OP, you really need to do some research before giving some unfounded accusations.
The person you mentioned has achievement of clearing SCoB 10 times.
You can't get that without clearing T9 (and by default, T7 and T8 as well).
OP if you really have cleared T9 too, you should have achievement of clearing SCoB, which you clearly don't have.
Seems like you don't even understand how the achievement for SCoB works. :/

This thread....

SS and Crit are worth about the same.

In t7 dual tank as MT I always run out of TP it's not because of SS.

In t8 your TP problems should line up perfectly with the melee TP problems and the BRD will fix that.

SS is good for 9 hit zerks and faster aggro. CRIT is good for pictures.

I cleared 6-7-8 way before I got the map achievement. I scared my now static the first week we formed since I told them I had cleared 6-8 and got the 6 map achievement right after we started.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

They have yet to clear T8

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In Another Bind is "Beat T9". You generally don't beat T9 ten times without beating T8 at least once. So...

Quote:

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P.S. It's nice that you know exactly how much damage you do from parsing it, but FFXIV APP is now considered a bannable offense. Third party software is against the ToS, and recently SE have actually started banning people for it. Of course, the only way they can find out if someone is using it is if they blatantly admit it like you just did. Sure would be a shame if some one were to report you.

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I didn't admit to anything. Nice try though. You don't have to be "the one" parsing in your group to know your DPS.

Real nice attitude you have overall though. You played 1.0 so clearly you know what you're doing in this completely different game.

The problem with these stat questions is that you're all talking about philosophies, but not a single one of you is bothering to apply actual data in your examples so that what you're talking about can actually be anything other than anecdotes. That said the problem with your philosophies is your approach of "every little bit counts", a routinely common ideology for most MMO players who can't be bothered to really test out their theories. It's not just about increasing your damage mitigation or damage contribution, it's about increasing those values to a point where they matter.

As a completely detached example, say you are playing a game where it takes an enemy roughly 10 attacks to kill you. Does increasing your damage mitigation by 5% increase the number of attacks you can sustain to 11? If not then the damage mitigation you've added is effectively meaningless as its' not contributing anything towards your survival. If you didn't *need* a 5% increase to survive then it's definitely not contributing anything to your survival.

Obviously I haven't played far enough into *this* game to tell you what to do, but if you're looking for a method to back up what you're talking about nothing speaks louder than actual evidence and play testing. Clearly the people who regularly clear the content in question are able to survive doing so; I imagine that their damage mitigation is therefor sufficient for the task.

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Originally Posted by Warkupo

Obviously I haven't played far enough into *this* game to tell you what to do, but if you're looking for a method to back up what you're talking about nothing speaks louder than actual evidence and play testing. Clearly the people who regularly clear the content in question are able to survive doing so; I imagine that their damage mitigation is therefor sufficient for the task.

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Exactly my point.

I tank in full i90 Ruby accessories with 30STR allotment, both as PLD and occasionally WAR. Our group's WAR does T6, T7(OT), T8(solo or OT), and T9 (OT) in full STR accs and also 30STR allotment.

Survival is not an issue.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Exactly my point.

I tank in full i90 Ruby accessories with 30STR allotment, both as PLD and occasionally WAR. Our group's WAR does T6, T7(OT), T8(solo or OT), and T9 (OT) in full STR accs and also 30STR allotment.

Survival is not an issue.

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Well doing i95 tuned content in i110 gear survival is not an issue.

Non of us are going into t10 wearing STR accessories.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Well doing i95 tuned content in i110 gear survival is not an issue.

Non of us are going into t10 wearing STR accessories.

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If SE tunes the next coil as ridiculously low as they did T6-9, we very well might be having healers DPSing and i90 STR + VIT hybrid accessory tanks right out of the gate for T10+. I'd like to think they made the tank/healer/DPS checks so low because this was their first set of raids with a lot of mechanics in each turn, but considering their goal of keeping the game pretty casual I'm not so sure.

I don't expect T10+ to be require us to spec out of 30 STR (our aforementioned WAR has never ever changed from 30STR and STR accs since we downed Turn 5). It's going to be harder than 6-9 but easier than Savage.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

I don't expect T10+ to be require us to spec out of 30 STR (our aforementioned WAR has never ever changed from 30STR and STR accs since we downed Turn 5). It's going to be harder than 6-9 but easier than Savage.

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Yeah I have no interest in changing from 30/30 str.

I do plan on using VIT or Runy accessories or a combo of both.

You will also see a comeback of parry builds at least until strats are ironed out.

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Originally Posted by Infina

By the way, your picture link doesn't work

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PEBCAK friendly friend because it works for everyone else. Here is another source, for your convenience

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Originally Posted by Infina

your log doesn't say anything about Melusine dying

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Redundant in light of picture, they're just random snips of log files I guess I didn't get the one where she dies there's quite a lot to go through, I can't believe you actually did. That's a lot of free time you've got there.

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Originally Posted by Infina

shield oath

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Who cares. Everyone's done it.

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Originally Posted by Infina

Where?

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The fact that they even brought it up when it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. If they really believed it did then they are even worse than I portrayed them.

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Originally Posted by Infina

Well since you don't understand what that achievement means, here you go

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Oh well, I don't know the names of achievements that came out while I was away. I'm still better. The ironic and witty point I was making that if his theory of mapping achievements were true then they wouldn't have still stands.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Oh well, I don't know the names of achievements that came out while I was away. I'm still better.

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You are still better despite not having cleared T9 once, much less 10 or 20 times.

Ok then.