Adding fuel to the fire, Summoner's future

Just wanted to say I support everyone's gripes with the summoner regarding mechanics and underwhelming design, personally I'd like to see egis be more important to a summoner's dps etc. and more individuality regarding the egis' mechanics/uses, along with their models, to get some visual improvements, mostly detail and size. Making them a little bigger or giving them more detail shouldn't get in the way of anything regarding MMO limitations.

I can understand lore-wise if this is just the beginning for what is to come, so if you have plans to give each egi some sort of upgraded state/form with more importance to the job as the level goes up that would be amazing, and their current almost child-like forms would become a part of their development story-wise to summoning greater amounts of essence, although so far I haven't seen anything that would lead me to see that happening, so if you could give us any sort of info regarding the summoner's future I would really appreciate it!

I meant to emphasize more the future of the Summoner, more so than the problems we have now, and really I just wanted to put ideas out there! A rework isn't what I'm after, it's just a view on the direction that I think would be cool for the summoner.

Pet is already close to 1/3rd of Summoner's (very sizable) DPS so I don't know what you're talking about when you say "more important".

I don't know, maybe summoners want it to be 50 %, 75 % or even 100 %. Then when the next egis are developed (Levi and Ramuh for instance), it will be the one to use. Summoners will complain that they may have several egis but only one is worth using since it does 1 dps more than the others. Once they get what they want, other jobs will complain that summoners have several ways to dps and that their job does not allow such a diversity... No end to complains XD. Just kidding.

Seravi when I said more important I meant have our dps be made up more of the pets and less the damage over time, as Lewena said. Not drastically, but you know, having more focus with your pets as a summoner shouldn't hurt in my eyes :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estevo

Just wanted to say I support everyone's gripes with the summoner regarding mechanics and underwhelming design, personally I'd like to see egis be more important to a summoner's dps etc. and more individuality regarding the egis' mechanics/uses, along with their models, to get some visual improvements, mostly detail and size. Making them a little bigger or giving them more detail shouldn't get in the way of anything regarding MMO limitations.

---

I can't be the only one that wishes they'd have implemented FFXI version of Summoner. After seeing those summons, you can only be disappointed to see anything less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necaust

I can't be the only one that wishes they'd have implemented FFXI version of Summoner. After seeing those summons, you can only be disappointed to see anything less.

---

So you want to be one of the weakest jobs again? ...Alrighty then.

I will give you the graphics if you concede on the size. The screen blocking behemoths of the past have no place in a 'dodgeball' mechanic game, regardless if you put them in a corner or not.

I have no issues with the graphics. No desire to have some huge egi near me, either. I've seen some people say they'd rather not have the DoTs and direct SMN attacks, but rather have the egi be the "real" character, with us just remote-controlling it, but I don't think that would be very fun.

All in all, I like my SMN just fine. As far as growth of the job, rather than having the egis gain more power, I'd actually like to see the summoner gain the power to call more egis at the same time (have both Titan and Garuda out simultaneously, for example).

It would be nice to have more egis out at once, although at the moment I'm hoping for more quality over quantity. Not trying to say make them remote control, it's still important you work together with your pet, I just meant maybe the egis could have some more value in combat keeping the overall dps as is, unless dps should be nerfed or buffed. Also I believe pet mechanics and diversity will become quite important when they add Leviathan, Shiva and Ramuh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexPayne

have the egi be the "real" character, with us just remote-controlling it, but I don't think that would be very fun.
.

---

I remember a quest in Burning Crusade Wow, part of Ogre'la, where you possessed a demon to fight other demons and possess them until you could defeat the demon lord of the gate. It was a ton of fun and I'd totally play a class based like that. Even if was the Morpher from FFTA. For balance, the "summoned" form might not be easily healable to prevent it from tanking raid bosses since it'd deaths would just return you to normal, or expire after say 60 seconds and have a cooldown long enough that demanded you cycle through 2-3 Egis, the summoner would have to carefully manage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

So you want to be one of the weakest jobs again? ...Alrighty then.

---

I wouldn't exactly say weakest, but if they made smn like 11 it would change it to more of a support role rather then a dps...which...in a sense you'd still be right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necaust

I can't be the only one that wishes they'd have implemented FFXI version of Summoner. After seeing those summons, you can only be disappointed to see anything less.

---

With how many people that played SMN in XI that hated most of how it was implemented, yes, you could be the only one.

To put it another way I believe that we should have more focus on the summoning/pet aspect of a Summoner than on our DOTs, considering summoners use most of their power in summoning and controlling an eidolon in other games, I'd still like to see the player himself fight, yet at the same time have some more of our overall power be directed towards our summons. They ARE called summoners after all, not "Miasma Poison DOT Master"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blackheart

I wouldn't exactly say weakest, but if they made smn like 11 it would change it to more of a support role rather then a dps...which...in a sense you'd still be right.

---

It failed as both support and DPS. When Aht Urghan rolled around Blue Mage was trotting around on SMN's only selling points: decent spike damage and AoE buffs and Blue Mage put them out of business for a long time until SMN got Alexander. Everything pretty much hit rock bottom after that.

I have an idea I'm working on for Egi rebalancing (to include the 3 new ones) as well as a stance that simply alters gameplay (instead of focusing on DoT's and having aid from a DPS pet you can rotate Egi's in a specific order to maintain Enkindle usage to play similarly to oldschool SMNs). Still tinkering with it but it's essentially this:

This idea was imagined with the potential onset of a hybrid role system as hinted at by the developers and with current knowledge of an increased level cap and addition of new Egis with the 3.0 expansion. SMN would be reclassified as a hybrid role in this case focusing on DPS with the ability to add support to the team. Some of the current Egi's see some ability changes. The reasoning behind this is that with the onset of 6 total Egi's each one will need to have their own niche to fit or else the current trend of just using one of them will continue.

In addition to this idea SMN will gain a stance, Astral Flow, which will lower casting times for all "Summon" abilities (I'm thinking to around 2 or 3s), reduce MP costs of Summon I-VI, reduce the Summoner's DPS while increasing the Egi's DPS and allow you to combo your summons.

This stance is primarily to give players a play-style option. Without the stance up SMN will play like the current FFXIV SMN model using DoTs and Fester for the bulk of damage and using the appropriate pet as the situation demands. With Astral Flow up it will play like the classic FF SMN model calling out all of their pets for burst AoE damage and supporting their pet's damage with their DoTs. The DPS of both play-styles will be similar but the Astral Flow style will likely be a bit weaker to account for the support it adds and its large focus on AoE damage. This weakness is found mostly in the fact that Aetherflow charges will be used on Energy Drain instead of Fester to sustain the rotation and there will likely be times where DoT's fall off.

The combo system works in that summoning an Egi while another one is present will reduce the recast/cooldown of Enkindle in order to get more uses of it (I'm thinking to around 10s or so). They will only be boosted as dictated by the current elemental wheel as found in game:

"The spark of Lightning ignites when it strikes, and thus Fire is born."
-If Summon III is used while Ramuh is active Enkindle's recast/cooldown is reduced.

"The heat of Fire renders to ash all that it touches, and thus Earth is born."
-If Summon II is used while Ifrit is active Enkindle's recast/cooldown is reduced.

"The density of Earth shuns sun and harbors cold, and thus Ice is born."
-If Summon VI is used while Titan is active Enkindle's recast/cooldown is reduced.

"The armor of Ice melts away, and thus Water is born."
-If Summon IV is used while Shiva is active Enkindle's recast/cooldown is reduced.

"The moistness of Water mists and rises, and thus Wind is born."
-If Summon is used while Leviathan is active Enkindle's recast/cooldown is reduced.

"The gusts and sighs of Wind gather the clouds, and thus Lightning is born."
-If Summon V is used while Garuda is active Enkindle's recast/cooldown is reduced.

Abilities:
Potencies left out due to future rebalancing of current Egi's.
* Denotes Enkindle.

Quote:

---

4: Summon: Summons a caster-type pet to fight by your side.
4: Windblade: Deals wind damage with a potency of X. Recast: 3s.
4: Shockwave: Deals wind damage with a potency of X. Additional Effect: 15-yalm knockback. Recast: 90s.
20: Aerial Slash: Deals wind damage with a potency of X to target and all enemies nearby it. Recast: 30s.
40: Contagion: Extends duration of damage over time effects already cast by master by Xs. Recast: 60s.
*50: Aerial Blast: Deals wind damage with a potency of X to target and all enemies nearby it. Astral Flow: Recast: 300.

---

Garuda: Largely unchanged. This the go-to pet for sustained DPS when a fight will be long or MP intensive or when there will be a lot of target switching as she is a ranged unit. Astral Flow: Primarily used to extend your DoT's so you have more time for summoning and will otherwise be used for AoE damage.

Quote:

---

15: Summon II: Summons a tank-type pet to fight at your side (Titan). Melee.
15: Rock Buster: Delivers an attack with a potency of X. Additional Effect: Increased enmity. Recast: 3s.
15: Mountain Buster: Delivers an attack with a potency of X to all nearby enemies. Additional Effect: Increased enmity. Recast: 15s.
20: Earthen Ward: Decreases damage suffered by pet by 20% for 20s. Recast: 120s.
40: Landslide: Delivers an attack with a potency of X. Additional Effect: Pacification for Xs. Recast: 40s.
*50: Earthen Fury: Deals earth damage with a potency of X to all nearby targets. Additional Effect: Razed earth for 15s. Recast: 300s.

---

Titan: Largely unchanged. This still functions as your solo tanking pet. Astral Flow: Used for AoE damage.

Quote:

---

30: Summon III: Summons an attacker-type pet to fight at your side (Ifrit). Melee.
30: Burning Strike: Delivers an attack with a potency of X. Recast: 3s.
30: Crimson Cyclone: Delivers an attack with a potency of X to all nearby enemies. Recast: 30s.
30: Crimson Howl: Increases potencies and reduces duration of damage over time effects already cast by master by Xs. Recast: 60s.
40: Flaming Crush: Delivers an attack with a potency of X. Additional Effect: Fire damage with a potency of X for Xs. Recast: 90s.
*50: Inferno: Deals fire damage with a potency of X to all enemies in a cone before it. Additional Effect: Fire damage over time with potency of X for 15s. Recast: 300s.

---

Ifrit: Several changes. This is now the go-to pet for burst DPS when a fight will be short or will have little worry for MP. Astral Flow: Primarily used to apply 2 quick DoTs, one of which AoE.

Quote:

---

55: Summon IV: Summons a healer-type pet to fight at your side (Leviathan). Ranged.
55: Spinning Dive: Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of X. Additional Effect: A water ball drops on and heals the party member with the lowest HP for X potency. Recast: 3s.
55: Spring Water: Heals party member with lowest HP for X potency. If target is raised to 100% HP the excess healing is given to the next party member with the lowest HP. The process continues up to a maximum of one half of the current party's size. A single party member can only be healed by it once per use. Recast: 30s.
55: Water Spout: Creates a geyser under Leviathan for Xs which heals all who enter with a potency of X every tick. Recast: 60s.
55: Tidal Roar: Increases HP restored by spells or actions by X% on nearby party members for Xs. Recast: 120s.
*55: Tidal Wave: Deals water damage with a potency of X to all enemies in a cone before it. Additional Effect: Party members within 5y of targets that receive damage from this attack will be healed with a potency of X. Recast: 300s.

---

Leviathan: New addition. This will be the Summoner's healing pet. Overall DPS will see about a 20% loss due to having only one attack. Primarily used when a healer goes down or runs out of MP or other emergency support situations. Astral Flow: Used for AoE DPS and an AoE heal.

Quote:

---

60: Summon V: Summons a caster support-type pet to fight at your side (Ramuh). Ranged.
60: Shock Strike: Deals lightning damage with a potency of X. Recast: 3s.
60: Thunderstorm: Deals lightning damage with a potency of X to enemies within Xy of Ramuh. Additional Effect: Stun for Xs. Recast: 30s.
60: Thunderbolt: Deals lightning damage with a potency of X. Additional Effect: Stun for Xs. Recast: 10s.
60: Chaotic Strike: Deals lightning damage with a potency of X. Additional Effect: Terror for Xs. Recast: 120s.
*60: Judgment Bolt: Deals lightning damage to enemies within Xy of Ramuh. Additional Effect: Paralyze for Xs. Recast: 300s.

---

Ramuh: New addition. This will be the Summoner's enemy-focused support pet. Primarily used for stun duty to alleviate the need for PLDs. Astral Flow: Used for AoE DPS and paralysis.

Quote:

---

65: Summon VI: Summons an attacking support-type pet to fight at your side (Shiva). Melee.
65: Axe Kick: Delivers an attack with a potency of X. Recast: 3s.
65: Frost Armor: Creates a barrier around the party member with the lowest HP% that prevents damage of all sources totaling X% of target's maximum HP for Xs. Recast: 30s.
65: Mesmerize: Puts target and enemies within 5y to sleep for Xs. Cancels auto-attack upon execution. Recast: 20s.
65: Diamond Storm: Creates a designated area around Shiva in which party members will only suffer X% of all damage inflicted for Xs. Additional Effect: Deals Ice damage with a potency of X to enemies within the designated area. Recast: 120s.
*65: Diamond Dust: Deals ice damage to enemy and nearby targets. Additional Effect: Creates a barrier around party members within Xy of enemies damaged by this ability that prevents physical damage totaling X% of target's maximum HP for Xs. Recast: 300s.

---

Shiva: New addition. This will be the Summoner's party-focused support pet. Primarily used for her shield effects akin to SCH. Astral Flow: Used for AoE DPS and a shield effect.

Quote:

---

70: Astral Flow: Summon I-VI MP costs are reduced by X% and casting times are reduced to Xs. Summoner damage dealt is reduced by X% and pet damage dealt is increased by X%. Each summon using the elemental wheel order Fire>Earth>Ice>Water>Wind>Lightning>Fire will reduce the recast/cooldown of Enkindle to Xs. Effect ends upon re-use. MP Cost: X.

---

Astral Flow rotation will look something like this although you can start with any Egi: Dot's > Garuda > Contagion > Aerial Blast > Ramuh > Judgement Bolt > Ifrit > Flaming Crush > Inferno > Titan > Landslide > Earthen Fury > Shiva > Diamond Storm > Diamond Dust > Leviathan > heals/buffs as needed > Tidal Wave. Rouse/Spur/Fester to be used whenever they're up. DoT's re-applied as they fall off preferably during an Enkindle animation. Aetherflow charges will likely be spent on Energy Drain instead of Fester to facilitate Enkindles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estevo

They ARE called summoners after all, not "Miasma Poison DOT Master"

---

Back-to-back post and all, but whatever. Dude, we know. We've known and heard this argument since before the beta hit. What you're doing is this:

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/up...dead-horse.gif

You've just missed the party and that other thread didn't need a seven month necropost. If you have any semblance of common sense you'd do well to drop the matter, we seriously don't need a second Akiza.

Smn is fine the way it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

It failed as both support and DPS. When Aht Urghan rolled around Blue Mage was trotting around on SMN's only selling points: decent spike damage and AoE buffs and Blue Mage put them out of business for a long time until SMN got Alexander. Everything pretty much hit rock bottom after that.

---

True again. All SMN could do really was help with magic burst when it came down to it which doesn't help now that elemental damage is no longer a thing. What we have now is probably the best we could hope for

I've suggest in a few Summoner threads that the while the way it plays at the moment is fine I'd like to see Summoner burst damage reworked so that it comes from the pet.
Enkindle reworked to be more impressive but locking the pet away for the enkindle cooldown, Fester maybe reworked so the pet is ordered to consume the DoTs you've placed on an enemy for instant damage.
Mostly flavor changes to be honest that wouldn't result in much change in overall DPS, although with SMN in the good spot it is at the moment any changes at all would have to be handled very carefully.

I hope to see some interesting changes in the expansion :) .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estevo

"Miasma Poison DOT Master"

---

That would be a cool but funny title for SMN!

I like SMN the way it is. All I could ask for is a different proc system. Spell Speed is useless for SMN and Pet.
I'd be happy if Enhanced Pet let you instant cast Shadow Flare or something like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estevo

Just wanted to say I support everyone's gripes with the summoner regarding mechanics and underwhelming design, personally I'd like to see egis be more important to a summoner's dps etc. and more individuality regarding the egis' mechanics/uses, along with their models, to get some visual improvements, mostly detail and size. Making them a little bigger or giving them more detail shouldn't get in the way of anything regarding MMO limitations.

I can understand lore-wise if this is just the beginning for what is to come, so if you have plans to give each egi some sort of upgraded state/form with more importance to the job as the level goes up that would be amazing, and their current almost child-like forms would become a part of their development story-wise to summoning greater amounts of essence, although so far I haven't seen anything that would lead me to see that happening, so if you could give us any sort of info regarding the summoner's future I would really appreciate it!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necaust

I can't be the only one that wishes they'd have implemented FFXI version of Summoner. After seeing those summons, you can only be disappointed to see anything less.

---

You both need to read the article addressing why the dev team decided to go with the design of the Egis that they did.

I don't have the direct link, but what they basically said:

1. Since there are multiple summoners, they don't want EVERYONE to be summoning THE Ifrit (for example.) So each person learns how to summon an "essence" of Ifrit. Thus, the Ifrit-Egi. They did not want them to be smaller "copies" of the same Ifrit model...like the summons are in XI.

2. They felt if the summons were like the ones in XI, it'd be very annoying (and possibly straining for people's computers) to have 50 garudas and ifrits and titans on your screen in a FATE like with Odin or Behemoth encounters. You all know how insane it is now. Now imagine XI styled summons instead of smaller Egis...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rex

You both need to read the article addressing why the dev team decided to go with the design of the Egis that they did.

I don't have the direct link, but what they basically said:

1. Since there are multiple summoners, they don't want EVERYONE to be summoning THE Ifrit (for example.) So each person learns how to summon an "essence" of Ifrit. Thus, the Ifrit-Egi. They did not want them to be smaller "copies" of the same Ifrit model...like the summons are in XI.

2. They felt if the summons were like the ones in XI, it'd be very annoying (and possibly straining for people's computers) to have 50 garudas and ifrits and titans on your screen in a FATE like with Odin or Behemoth encounters. You all know how insane it is now. Now imagine XI styled summons instead of smaller Egis...

---

These are basic, logical points that people who do want SMN changed aesthetically don't seem to understand and I don't know why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

These are basic, logical points that people who do want SMN changed aesthetically don't seem to understand and I don't know why.

---

We understand just fine. But having Egi that were the size of, say a Hyur or a Roegadyn, isn't going to cause the game to collapse into itself like the Hunt currently does. Also, as I've mentioned in previous threads, changing the size of monsters and spell effects is not without precedent, as they did just that in patches 1.16 and 1.17 because people complained that monsters weren't "intimidating" enough, and spells didn't look "flashy" enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skaterger

Smn is fine the way it is.

---

- Food doesn't affect our pets.
- It's been confirmed recently by one of the forum reps that spell speed doesn't affect our pets, making the stat as well as our passive trait Enhanced Pet Actions (+20% spell speed) worthless for them.
- Spell speed also has no affect on DoTs (i.e. our main source of damage), making it even more worthless.
- Garuda's Contagion questionably overshadows Ifrit despite the developer's feeble attempts to increase its potency, and could potentially overshadow any future Egi we receive.
- Enkindle has been known to, on occasion, not activate (and I'm talking about before the recent bug they fixed). This results in wasting a five minute cooldown that just barely compares to the potency of Flare, and that's after using Rouse and Spur in conjunction to boost its strength by 40%.

I'm not saying we need an overhaul, but there are some very fundamental problems with Summoner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spellbinder

- Food doesn't affect our pets.
- It's been confirmed recently by one of the forum reps that spell speed doesn't affect our pets, making the stat as well as our passive trait Enhanced Pet Actions (+20% spell speed) worthless for them.
- Spell speed also has no affect on DoTs (i.e. our main source of damage), making it even more worthless.
- Garuda's Contagion questionably overshadows Ifrit despite the developer's feeble attempts to increase its potency, and could potentially overshadow any future Egi we receive.
- Enkindle has been known to, on occasion, not activate (and I'm talking about before the recent bug they fixed). This results in wasting a five minute cooldown that just barely compares to the potency of Flare, and that's after using Rouse and Spur in conjunction to boost its strength by 40%.

I'm not saying we need an overhaul, but there are some very fundamental problems with Summoner.

---

Obviously when I said they were "fine" I meant that in regards to the OP's concerns, namely the size/appearance of egis and the damage contribution of summons in relation to summoners in combat. But to address some of your other points

- I agree. Food buffs should apply to pets or at least give us the option to feed our pet separately.
-They have acknowledged the problem and will likely change it soon.
-There is a reason why SS/haste is one of the hardest stats to balance in MMOs. There was a period in Wow where haste was the only desirable stats for casters because it affected both cast speed and dots. A small change in haste can affect dps greatly. I have a hunch it would be the same here.
-Ifrit does 20 dps more than garuda for me in T8. I also use Ifrit for trash especially if there's a monk in the party and mobs die really quickly. Every Egi has its place. Even titan which I use to solo alexendrite maps.
-I have personally never experienced this bug, nor have I encountered the bug after 2.3 where garuda apparently fails to cast Contagion or aerial slash. But I have always trained myself to spam Contagion when miasma is at 3/4 cast bar so that Contagion hits immediately after bio.

Again these are mainly bugs and QOL issues, not really what the OP is alluding to.

As for the size of the Egi, doesn't really make a difference for me. I suppose they could make it the size of the felguard for warlocks in wow, though I can potentially see how it's size and elaborate spell effects some are clamouring for (aka ff10 style) can make it impossible to see some things in fights. And no, I don't like to turn off spell effects.

I also dislike the idea of having you control your pet as much as controlling the summoner. As things stand, it is challenging enough to optimize your dot rotation while micromanaging your pet and it's abilities. To control your pet like a second character would make it the hardest class to play. Well, maybe if they made summoner the highest dps... just maybe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skaterger

-They have acknowledged the problem and will likely change it soon.

---

Assuming you're referring to spell speed and pets...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings,

By design, pets aren't affected by their master’s spell speed, and there aren't plans to change that at this time. The benefits of the trait Enhanced Pet Actions apply to the master, and will not apply a spell speed bonus to your pet.

---

As for Ifrit, more often than not, I hear the caveat of "well, when there's a warrior or monk in the party..." as to the reason for why Ifrit can edge out Garuda in a handful of situations. We shouldn't need help from other Jobs to give incentive to change between the different Egi. I shudder to think what will happen when we have more of them if a better balance isn't struck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estevo

It's probably strange but I'm going to use pokemon as an example to explain my ideas for the future to come. Right now Ifrit egi is in every way a Charmander, a pre-evolved pokemon. Titan is close to a Geodude, and Garuda is similar to a Pidgey, even in their abilities they can be compared, and I'm guessing when they are added Leviathan will be a Squirtle and Ramuh a Pikachu. As the level cap grows, I'm hoping our summoners abilities will grow too, lore-wise I mean, to take on the giant dragons/other big baddies coming our way. To me, it would be pretty silly to take on one of those legendary Pokemon with a CHARMANDER, so as the summoners become more powerful, they would become able to extract larger amounts of essence from the primals, and essentially, we could have evolved forms of the egis we have now, with stronger abilities and forms. No not HUGE primals, still referencing Pokemon here, the final evolved form of Charmander is still only about the height of a human.

---

I've heard the idea of "evolution" floated around several times since the game's release. And while I do find the idea interesting, I also recall a reply from the forum reps stating that the developers have no intentions of allowing our Egi to "grow" or change at any point in the future, and that they would take our feedback into consideration when designing new ones (although I doubt it).

It's probably strange but I'm going to use pokemon as an example to explain my ideas for the future to come. Right now Ifrit egi is in every way a Charmander, a pre-evolved pokemon. Titan is close to a Geodude, and Garuda is similar to a Pidgey, even in their abilities they can be compared, and I'm guessing when they are added Leviathan will be a Squirtle and Ramuh a Pikachu. As the level cap grows, I'm hoping our summoners abilities will grow too, lore-wise I mean, to take on the giant dragons/other big baddies coming our way. To me, it would be pretty silly to take on one of those legendary Pokemon with a CHARMANDER, so as the summoners become more powerful, they would become able to extract larger amounts of essence from the primals, and essentially, we could have evolved forms of the egis we have now, with stronger abilities and forms. No not HUGE primals, still referencing Pokemon here, the final evolved form of Charmander is still only about the height of a human.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spellbinder

I've heard the idea of "evolution" floated around several times since the game's release. And while I do find the idea interesting, I also recall a reply from the forum reps stating that the developers have no intentions of allowing our Egi to "grow" or change at any point in the future, and that they would take our feedback into consideration when designing new ones (although I doubt it).

---

More egis is fine, but by itself, It's not enough to make me excited to level up and progress, which I think are important factors in ANY rpg, mmo or not. I've left many mmos simply because the progression is uninteresting and there's nothing to see from character growth besides stats. As the saying goes, quality over quantity, I don't just want more skills and pets, I want growth and signs that I as a summoner are evolving, along with my powers. I think the same idea applies to all the jobs.


Just my two cents :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estevo

More egis is fine, but by itself, It's not enough to make me excited to level up and progress, which I think are important factors in ANY rpg, mmo or not. I've left many mmos simply because the progression is uninteresting and there's nothing to see from character growth besides stats. As the saying goes, quality over quantity, I don't just want more skills and pets, I want growth and signs that I as a summoner are evolving, along with my powers. I think the same idea applies to all the jobs.


Just my two cents :D

---

Changing the appearance and animations of spells and abilities like making the Egis evolve with powerful new abilities and changing appearance to resemble the Primals at the scale of a Hyur is about the quality of progression while increasing ilvl gear and stats is about the quantity of progression.

Allowing the Egis to evolve with stronger abilities and resemble the the Primals scaled down to human height is about the quality of progression while getting new ilvl gear and increasing stats is about the quantity of progression.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Allowing the Egis to evolve with stronger abilities and resemble the the Primals scaled down to human height is about the quality of progression while getting new ilvl gear and increasing stats is about the quantity of progression.

---

Exactly, I just feel like I'm seeing more quantity improvements and less quality improvements at the moment, but you know it makes sense, they want to give the game a foundation with new content, etc. and I can respect that. I'm just trying to put ideas out there for when quality becomes more relevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estevo

It's probably strange but I'm going to use pokemon as an example to explain my ideas for the future to come. Right now Ifrit egi is in every way a Charmander, a pre-evolved pokemon. Titan is close to a Geodude, and Garuda is similar to a Pidgey, even in their abilities they can be compared, and I'm guessing when they are added Leviathan will be a Squirtle and Ramuh a Pikachu. As the level cap grows, I'm hoping our summoners abilities will grow too, lore-wise I mean, to take on the giant dragons/other big baddies coming our way. To me, it would be pretty silly to take on one of those legendary Pokemon with a CHARMANDER, so as the summoners become more powerful, they would become able to extract larger amounts of essence from the primals, and essentially, we could have evolved forms of the egis we have now, with stronger abilities and forms. No not HUGE primals, still referencing Pokemon here, the final evolved form of Charmander is still only about the height of a human.

---

If we're going to talk Pokemon here, then my response to you is what I've always felt Summoner should have..which is a unique Limit Break that "transformed" their current pet into an "almost lifesized" version of the actual Primal and used their "ultimate"...and I guess in Pokemon talk, it'd be like a short and sweet mega evolution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spellbinder

We understand just fine. But having Egi that were the size of, say a Hyur or a Roegadyn, isn't going to cause the game to collapse into itself like the Hunt currently does. Also, as I've mentioned in previous threads, changing the size of monsters and spell effects is not without precedent, as they did just that in patches 1.16 and 1.17 because people complained that monsters weren't "intimidating" enough, and spells didn't look "flashy" enough.

---

I'll agree that they don't feel intimidating. But I know that it has already been said that they decided to go with the smaller form factor and not making them the size of a Hyur or Roegadyn because of the reasons I already stated.

I feel like they shouldn't have been a pet class. I think that it would have been more interesting to have larger damage spells (with a cool down) that summon a primal who came out and did the attack and left. Much like summoner's in previous non MMO FFs. Then our filler dps our spells could have taken on aspects of the primal attacks or something like that. I realize that mechanically this would have a much larger over lap with BLM and would probably not be a desire able game design... But SMN and BLM have always had a slight role over lap in FF games.

Anyways I think the current design is quite solid for the class... I just don't feel like they nailed it for designing SMN (and seriously please no FFXI type of SMN. Their only saving grace was it was cool to see the summon. The game play for them was quite uninspired)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rex

I'll agree that they don't feel intimidating. But I know that it has already been said that they decided to go with the smaller form factor and not making them the size of a Hyur or Roegadyn because of the reasons I already stated.

---

Making the Egis the size of a Hyur or Roegadyn will take less resources and a strain on the servers then hunts when 300 players are occupying one small area.

Patch 2.4 - Summoner Changes:

-Summoner has been renamed to "Warlock"
-Egis have been renamed to "Minions"
-Warlock's "Energy Drain" has been removed entirely
-Warlocks now have a channeled HP/MP Draining skill

I played Warlock in WoW. I wanted a real Summoner. Give me a real summoner. :|

Hey, another misinformed thread with people that have 0 clue about balance or game design coming to bitch about what they want!

Sweet, we dont have like 100 of this threads already or anything!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

Hey, another misinformed thread with people that have 0 clue about balance or game design coming to bitch about what they want!

Sweet, we dont have like 100 of this threads already or anything!

---

"we will not let the game be held back by preconceived notions of what an MMORPG should be. Instead, we will challenge ourselves to innovate, providing our players with a game truly befitting the FINAL FANTASY title." Quote directly from Yoshi P's live letter

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...808-27-2013%29

...just saying.

So do we also want to eliminate tanks using aggro abilties and healers throwing those cure spells because other games have done it too? Or are we just cherrypicking one class?

Complaining that a class uses the same types of abilities as seen in other games of the same genre is plain stupid. It's like moaning that every FPS has at least one rifle in it. Well, duh, it's a shooter, get used to it.

They could have just as easily NOT had the SMN or SCH class in this game. Then what would people harp about incessantly? Dragoon? Monk?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexPayne

So do we also want to eliminate tanks using aggro abilties and healers throwing those cure spells because other games have done it too? Or are we just cherrypicking one class?

Complaining that a class uses the same types of abilities as seen in other games of the same genre is plain stupid. It's like moaning that every FPS has at least one rifle in it. Well, duh, it's a shooter, get used to it.

They could have just as easily NOT had the SMN or SCH class in this game. Then what would people harp about incessantly? Dragoon? Monk?

---

Then they would complain there in not a SMN or SCH in the game.