Something is seriously wrong

I was doing Haukke Manor HM run earlier today with a group. Upon the start of the dungeon everything went well or at least I thought it was going well. Our DPS was comprised of a MNK and myself (BLM). I am not sure if the tank noticed this but the MNK only had 3200HP and I have 4931HP on my BLM and the healer had 2991HP (SCH). The tank asked me to use my aoe abilities so as to make the dungeon go faster. I died many times and we weren't even at the first boss yet. The healer couldn't heal through all of the dmg, the tank wasn't keeping trash off of me and I got thrashed every time lol. Knowing that the MNK has little aoe and the healer is relatively new to the dungeon as he stated so in the beginning, I told the tank that I refuse to use my aoe's anymore. After finally making it to the second boss fight and killing ash the tank started trash talking me and the voted dismissed me from the party because I wouldn't use my aoe's anymore. Can someone please tell me what I did wrong?

Yeah: you partied with some really lame players. Especially the tank if he couldn't hold hate.

If mage users start to outclass melee users in terms of HP, then that party is severely undergeared. I once had a run where me as a white mage had more HP than the tank, even though it was a few hundred points difference.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

If mage users start to outclass melee users in terms of HP, then that party is severely undergeared. I once had a run where me as a white mage had more HP than the tank, even though it was a few hundred points difference.

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Fresh 50s start with 3kish hp... some people would rather gear by dungeons then buy gear off the ah... people with the mindset that high hp/gear means "omg this person will be awesome" will be sorely disappointed..just saying. :p

Back to topic.. you did nothing wrong..i once had a tnk that couldnt keep hate off i65-i70dps but after examining gear i noticed he was gearing by dungeon so i slowed dps and gave him a little bit more time to get hatega. It was alittle slower yes but it helped. If you run into this again perhaps try to slow ur dps and give the tnk alittle more time to grab hate. Not everyone is overly geared as the older players and many like to actually gear by content. In any case the tnk should have seen the healer struggling and
1. grabbed less mobs
2. Agreed with you to single target kill

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Originally Posted by Marianno

...tank asked me to use my aoe abilities ...please tell me what I did wrong?

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Did he mean Blizzard II...^^;

Sorry to hear this. I did Haukke Manor yesterday and we absolutely steamrolled it. The tank was brilliant. We had a great healer and the other DPS and I were tearing down mobs. I'd love to run Haukke Manor again. Sadly on to bigger and better things I guess.

The tank's job regardless of instance is to keep mobs on him, if he was alive and mobs were attacking anyone but him, he was doing something wrong or poorly geared. Weapon can matter a lot.

You did nothing wrong and assuming the entire party was random and there were no premade portions, the other dps probably voted cause he didn't want to requeue.

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Originally Posted by Coth_X

The tank's job regardless of instance is to keep mobs on him, if he was alive and mobs were attacking anyone but him, he was doing something wrong or poorly geared. Weapon can matter a lot.

You did nothing wrong and assuming the entire party was random and there were no premade portions, the other dps probably voted cause he didn't want to requeue.

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It's not just the Tank's job to keep the mobs on him. It's also the DPS' job to watch their aggro and not take anything. The OP was doing his job correctly and got kicked for it. That's a problem.

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Originally Posted by Aelinau

Fresh 50s start with 3kish hp... some people would rather gear by dungeons then buy gear off the ah... people with the mindset that high hp/gear means "omg this person will be awesome" will be sorely disappointed..just saying. :p
l

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High HP may not equal high skill, but being pathetically undergeared (AF, PVP gear, etc. in anything beyond WP) is a trend among lazy people who want everyone else to work harder so that they can skip a reasonable gear progression. I was in Lost City with an AF DRG wearing a lvl 9 ring, an NQ one at that. Similar situation with a PLD wearing STR+ accessories (and not the good kind). Similar situation with noob SMN's and DRG's who have the HP - but because they added VIT instead of their DPS stats. The game is full of scrubs who need to be shamed and ridiculed, not coddled with talk of HP being irrelevant to skill.

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Originally Posted by Tigerclaw

. The game is full of scrubs who need to be shamed and ridiculed, not coddled with talk of HP being irrelevant to skill.

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How about shining some light on these players in "awful" gear then letting them cont in such a state? you are correct in that some people use things in the wrong way...(spirit bonding in dungeons for one) i was only pointing out that the OP ilvl was probably much higher then the tnk(we dont really know as it wasnt said).. therefor alot easier for him to take hate off said tnk.

On a side note haukke drops ilvl60 gear..for those wanting to gear through dungeons.. an ilvl 70+ on a geared for dungeon only tnk can take hate off said person. You cant expect people to spend 100k-300k i70 to 700k+ i90lvl (famfrit) off ah or lvl all crafts to 50 to chance crafting it themselves.. Casual gamers, Fresh players take time to gear. That being said im not making excuses for those "lazy" people you speak of but more giving another point of view on the matter.

It's just inconsiderate for people to queue up counting on the rest of the party to carry them. You ever have to wait 45 minutes for Titan H just to see an AF PLD with 3400 HP? I personally think all dungeons should have reasonable ilvl requirements. How many times do you have to see someone wearing a myth belt and a pvp ring and a pink head? I just get the impression that they are lazy and potentially get the RMT to get them to 50. It reminds me of key-whores in Abyssea. There should either be a filter, a way to boot them before 5 minutes are up, or at the very least a sync-up of gear's ilvl to one more appropriate for the dungeon, maybe to the average ilvl of the party minus 5.

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Originally Posted by Tigerclaw

It\\'s just inconsiderate for people to queue up counting on the rest of the party to carry them. You ever have to wait 45 minutes for Titan H just to see an AF PLD with 3400 HP? I personally think all dungeons should have reasonable ilvl requirements. How many times do you have to see someone wearing a myth belt and a pvp ring and a pink head? I just get the impression that they are lazy and potentially get the RMT to get them to 50. (Snip).

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Problem is the dungeons do have a reasonable ilvl requirement. That said, you may need to balance cooldowns and or cc to manage a pull. The problem is a lot of people want to just run fast to complete so they either go too big and die to inability to heal thru, or they end up blaming party members who realize that they need to tone it back. Ive had to change blm gear mid dungeon to balance tank gear before.

All comes down to gear does not equal skill or role knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Zaero

Problem is the dungeons do have a reasonable ilvl requirement. That said, you may need to balance cooldowns and or cc to manage a pull. The problem is a lot of people want to just run fast to complete so they either go too big and die to inability to heal thru, or they end up blaming party members who realize that they need to tone it back. Ive had to change blm gear mid dungeon to balance tank gear before.

All comes down to gear does not equal skill or role knowledge.

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Not all players with good gear are good players, but all good players have good gear, at least relative to the task at hand.

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Originally Posted by Aelinau

hatega.

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The new AoE Threat ability we have been all waiting for.

But in regards to the OP. I would have responded "Don't let me die then". It is better that you moved on. Imagine the last boss :(.

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Originally Posted by Tigerclaw

Not all players with good gear are good players, but all good players have good gear, at least relative to the task at hand.

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I disagree with your whole sentiment. If you are trying to gear up and can queue for it. May as well. I have an i62 Dragoon and I want better gear. I can do CT, dungeons or using my i90+ pld or war to grind it out. See what I will be doing dungeons with the dragoon which includes Brayflox, Halatali, and Lost City. Will I slow the group down? Yes. But at the same time I am capable of doing the dungeon. It has nothing to do with the rest of the party carrying me. If you don't want to have the off chance of me dps'ing then do party finder, or find your own group.

It does no good for me to experience the dungeons over and over again on my paladin or warrior. It also reduces my chance on getting the gear I am looking for. So the majority of the time it is better for me to play on the class that I am aiming to get the gear for. I don't see how that makes me a bad player. The ilvl requirements on dungeons are to establish the minimum someone needs. They don't need to be anymore than that to successfully complete the dungeon.

Judging from OP story, I find it quite suspicious. Most likely that MNK & healer are actually spiritbonding, judging from their unusual low HP. Not that I against SBing in dungeons since I did that too, but when they realized party performance were getting bad, the SB players should consider switching back to their best gear. Or can just leave.

OP's not doing anything wrong. It's the tank that didn't realize party's overall capabilities and just ignorantly trying to rush things ahead by requesting those unnecessary AOE. If the tank actually planned to speed run, he shud do quick check if his party are quite up to the task.

IIn OP's place, I would do alot of those sleep spell on mobs instead, if they not resistant to it.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

The new AoE Threat ability we have been all waiting for.

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i use "Ga" on everything blame ffxi :p

Here's the thing. This will continue to be a problem and promote elitism for one big reason. Endgame dungeons have a minimum ilvl but no cap, which is awesome for premades and most df runs. But for fresh players it can be a nightmare. Ilvl 90-110 dps will murder a fresh tank. Unless they buy 90 gear. But that's a lot of gil for something so temporary.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

Here's the thing. This will continue to be a problem and promote elitism for one big reason. Endgame dungeons have a minimum ilvl but no cap, which is awesome for premades and most df runs. But for fresh players it can be a nightmare. Ilvl 90-110 dps will murder a fresh tank. Unless they buy 90 gear. But that's a lot of gil for something so temporary.

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This is very true as I have run into parties where either I'm highest ilvl, or the dps eclipse the tank/healer. As a dps or healer, having more hp than a tank is an indication that you potentially outrank their ilvl by at least 30-40 lvls. Knowing this can and has happened I generally adapt to what the tank can handle hate wise which can mean slowing DPS or waiting to engage until after they have done at least 1 full round of hate chain and are almost through a 2nd. This isn't 100% going to lock hate on them, but for trash mobs it will usually keep it on them until they are just about dead. When it comes to boss fights it is a matter of keeping an eye on the hate bar which some DPS do not want to do at all, but if you're going to queue into the lower 50 roulette then this is something you should already be prepared to do if you aren't going with premades.

LOL I did Brayflox last week without using AOE's with my BLM. No matter if 4,3 or 2 enemies or even a single one. The tank (he was a WAR and nicely equipped, 90 at least) could not hold the Aggro. I gave him more and more time before I attacked, used quelling strikes but still I caught Aggro from Trash and even the boss mobs. To make it even better, the Tank started yelling at me because I was "provocing" enemies as he said. Flarepull is what I could see as provocing. Starting to do damage through regular rotation after giving the tank 10 seconds to gain enmity isn't. I also play a WAR and know that is not the slightest problem to keep hate against 2 AOE spamming BLM's or a BLM/Bard combo. I left on the way to the second boss after a bloody Couerl killed me again, was the 2nd dungeon ever since Release where I was the leaving guy.