Over 36 RL hours farming my last Atma and counting

THANK YOU SE <.<

you sure you are in the right location? One description is wrong.

oh I am, 3 FC friends came and got theirs while I was still here <.<

Same issue here. Nearing 40 hr mark. Outer La Noscea.

I refuse to fate grind. Upgrading the Wave Codex or using the Allagan one will do me just fine.

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Originally Posted by Terius

I refuse to fate grind. Upgrading the Wave Codex or using the Allagan one will do me just fine.

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I already got mine, but was thinking of going this path as well. The effort isn't just worth it. Atleast for now, I hope.

Insert here obligatory comment about instant gratification from a very small vocal minority who loves Final Fantasy a bit too much.

Weird. Last weekend, after 26 hours of grinding, I still didn't have a single Atma. I saw people complaining about Outer La Noscea, and I figured I might as well go there as anywhere, since nowhere else was giving me anything. As soon as I ported in, that FATE with all the grenades popped, right near the camp. Boom, Atma of the Lion.

I'm still at 31 hours total and 3/12, but that right there gave me hope.

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Originally Posted by WrenDark

Same issue here. Nearing 40 hr mark. Outer La Noscea.

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Same for me! Outer La Noscea, been there farming 2 days now and still haven't found it :(

A lot of players really do not understand how this quest works, huh?

You could farm for 100 hours and have the same result as someone who farms for 5 minutes. Solution? Do NOT farm for 100 hours straight. I have done fates here and there where I feel like it, and probably spent about 2-3 hours on the quest so far and have 3 Atmas. It's not going to happen overnight so just accept it.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

A lot of players really do not understand how this quest works, huh?

You could farm for 100 hours and have the same result as someone who farms for 5 minutes. Solution? Do NOT farm for 100 hours straight. I have done fates here and there where I feel like it, and probably spent about 2-3 hours on the quest so far and have 3 Atmas. It's not going to happen overnight so just accept it.

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You obviously don't understand how chance works.

The more often you do a fate the higher your chance of obtaining the atma you need, it's unlikely anyone is farming for 100 hours straight either.

Many people don't like luck and chance for this reason as it rewards the fortunate and is unfair to everyone else who has to struggle for countless hours.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

A lot of players really do not understand how this quest works, huh?

You could farm for 100 hours and have the same result as someone who farms for 5 minutes. Solution? Do NOT farm for 100 hours straight. I have done fates here and there where I feel like it, and probably spent about 2-3 hours on the quest so far and have 3 Atmas. It's not going to happen overnight so just accept it.

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Except with quite a few people it did happen overnight. I was in Titan yesterday and 3 of them had Atma weapons. The problem is the massive disparity among the players that has NOTHING to do with skill and EVERYTHING to do with bs luck.

Feel free to take a break.
You'll have as much chance of getting it in a day than you do right now.

Meh that's Random Number Generators for ya =/
They don't care about your Ilevel
They don't care if you are Legacy or not
They don't care if you are nublet or elitist
You could have been logged in for 48hrs straight or just popped in after a month away

It may not seem, but it is... fair

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You obviously don't understand how chance works.

The more often you do a fate the higher your chance of obtaining the atma you need, it's unlikely anyone is farming for 100 hours straight either.

Many people don't like luck and chance for this reason as it rewards the fortunate and is unfair to everyone else who has to struggle for countless hours.

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Thank you, you just completely proved my point. Learn how RNG works.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Thank you, you just completely proved my point. Learn how RNG works.

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Except some people got it in a day by doing less than 50 FATEs so there goes any point about long lasting content and fairness.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Except some people got it in a day by doing less than 50 FATEs so there goes any point about long lasting content and fairness.

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That depends on how you look at it, really. RNG is in many ways the MOST fair you can possibly get in a game of this type, that's why it's so often used.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

That depends on how you look at it, really. RNG is in many ways the MOST fair you can possibly get in a game of this type, that's why it's so often used.

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For procs and damage rolls? Sure. For quest progression? Nah, there are much much better ways to do progression, many which have already been mentioned in the feedback thread.

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That depends on how you look at it, really. RNG is in many ways the MOST fair you can possibly get in a game of this type, that's why it's so often used.

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Comparitively, wouldn't the most fair you could be for this quest would be a 'Get highest ranking in 30 FATE's in this region. Then talk to this person to get the atma they hold.'

Most fair would be each person doing the same type of content goal like the above that has a set amount required. With no set amount...a person getting it in one FATE versus 100 FATEs...random =/= fair.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You obviously don't understand how chance works.

The more often you do a fate the higher your chance of obtaining the atma you need, it's unlikely anyone is farming for 100 hours straight either.

Many people don't like luck and chance for this reason as it rewards the fortunate and is unfair to everyone else who has to struggle for countless hours.

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The chance to obtain an atma following a FATE is the same regardless of how many FATEs you did previously. It's not a cumulative thing, it's a completely independent event.

If it has a 5% drop rate, that's only an average of 1 in 20. But it's a 1 in 20 chance, on average, every single time. It would be great if probability worked on the concept that, by the 20th event you will guarantee get the atma. But, no, it doesn't work like that. All it means is that, if 1000 people participated in a single FATE, and you gathered the results of who got one and who didn't, you would expect ~5% of those players (ie, 50 of them) to have obtained an atma. It could be drastically more or less, because that's only 1 event. Repeat that over 10000 events (or FATEs), and you would start to see closer to an average of ~5% of players getting a particular atma.

So it doesn't matter how long you spend doing it, it's simply probability or luck. That's why you can get people who have all 12 in 4-5 hours, and some who haven't got 1 in 30+ hours. Thus, why there is no point in farming ad exhaustium and complain about how the system is unfair etc. Of course it's unfair; the drop rate is absurdly low. But at least SE can predict that only a small percentage of the player base will actually progress to stage 2.

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Originally Posted by Roris

For procs and damage rolls? Sure. For quest progression? Nah, there are much much better ways to do progression, many which have already been mentioned in the feedback thread.

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Well SE obviously think differently, and I tend to agree with them.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

random =/= fair.

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Technically speaking, random is completely fair. Everyone has the same depressingly abysmal chances, but some people get lucky. What random isn't, is equal, because of the fact that some people get lucky and finish early, and others are unlucky and have to put in many times the amount of effort to get the same thing, or may never even get it no matter how hard they work at it.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

Lol. No.

Do 50 fates in a zone, you get an atma.

THAT is fair.

Do anywhere between 1 and 1000 fates in a zone and you might get an atma is not.

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So many people confuse fairness and equality. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the grind was the same for everyone and luck was removed from the equation, but I can't pretend it's not fair, because it is. It's just not equal. I'm still only 3/12 myself, after having put in 31 hours, 23 of those before seeing my 1st drop.

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Originally Posted by Themis

The chance to obtain an atma following a FATE is the same regardless of how many FATEs you did previously. It's not a cumulative thing, it's a completely independent event.

If it has a 5% drop rate, that's only an average of 1 in 20. But it's a 1 in 20 chance, on average, every single time. It would be great if probability worked on the concept that, by the 20th event you will guarantee get the atma. But, no, it doesn't work like that. All it means is that, if 1000 people participated in a single FATE, and you gathered the results of who got one and who didn't, you would expect ~5% of those players (ie, 50 of them) to have obtained an atma. It could be drastically more or less, because that's only 1 event. Repeat that over 10000 events (or FATEs), and you would start to see closer to an average of ~5% of players getting a particular atma.

So it doesn't matter how long you spend doing it, it's simply probability or luck. That's why you can get people who have all 12 in 4-5 hours, and some who haven't got 1 in 30+ hours. Thus, why there is no point in farming ad exhaustium and complain about how the system is unfair etc. Of course it's unfair; the drop rate is absurdly low. But at least SE can predict that only a small percentage of the player base will actually progress to stage 2.

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Exactly.

I'm kind of glad I brought up the fact that many people don't understand how this works, because Jinko proved that I am right. Now maybe those who read this thread won't spend hours upon hours grinding only to get themselves in a tizzy and resort to venting on here.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

That depends on how you look at it, really. RNG is in many ways the MOST fair you can possibly get in a game of this type, that's why it's so often used.

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Lol. No.

Do 50 fates in a zone, you get an atma.

THAT is fair. Everyone has to do the same amount of work for the same reward.

Do anywhere between 1 and 1000 fates in a zone and you might get an atma is not.


Synonyms for fair
adj impartial, unprejudiced
candid
civil
clean
courteous
decent
equal

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Well SE obviously think differently, and I tend to agree with them.

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I love Final Fantasy too, doesn't mean I have to come up with silly justifications for every bad decision they make. I got my Atma on Monday, it was still a badly designed quest that only rewarded my luck, it's just plain bad.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

Technically speaking, random is completely fair. Everyone has the same depressingly abysmal chances, but some people get lucky. What random isn't, is equal, because of the fact that some people get lucky and finish early, and others are unlucky and have to put in many times the amount of effort to get the same thing, or may never even get it no matter how hard they work at it.

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Apologies, you're right in that the RNG is fair in one aspect.

However, the effort that some people have putting out for it is extremely disproportionate. And that disparity is why it feels very unfair. There is no skill involved. It's just luck. Which is rather frustrating to many people, as you can imagine.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

Lol. No.

Do 50 fates in a zone, you get an atma.

THAT is fair. Everyone has to do the same amount of work for the same reward.

Do anywhere between 1 and 1000 fates in a zone and you might get an atma is not.

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Everyone has the same drop rate, everyone is rolling a dice. It's fair as long as the same rules apply to everyone.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Well SE obviously think differently, and I tend to agree with them.

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Neither of which, makes it right.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Everyone has the same drop rate, everyone is rolling a dice. It's fair as long as the same rules apply to everyone.

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Seriously. I mean, its just like the lotery. We dont all go up in arms and complain when someone wins 50 million dollars when they had the same 1 in 10 billion chance to win.

Atma was not intended to be farmed, it was intended to be gradually obtained over time. The fact that the wave and tidal wave equipment and high allagan gearbis a testament to this! Get your atka when you get it, farm your tidal wave weapon (which is vastly superior to the atma weapon for at least 4500 myth and three quests or more following your attainment of it).

well as long as we are arguing semantics,
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fair
fair (adj.)
:agreeing with what is thought to be right or acceptable
:treating people in a way that does not favor some over others
:not too harsh or critical

*stirs the pot*

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Everyone has the same drop rate, everyone is rolling a dice. It's fair as long as the same rules apply to everyone.

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Fair, in this sense, is a very grey area. But the ranges of which people acquire these items is so ranging that it does make people question things.

Also, your reply to Djeserit's comment actually reinforces his idea. You say that as long as a rule applies to everyone, then that rule is fair. His idea would apply to everyone, and by your own logic, is fair.

A lot of people just want a more tangibly visible progression. Even if you were to double Djeserit's suggestion it is, at least, a better way have handled this feature. In its current form you can get the item you need for this quest 1 min from now, 1 hour from now, 1 day from now, 1 week from now, etc, etc, or never. A player's ability to progress on this quest is directly impinged on this.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Neither of which, makes it right.

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Sure, if you want to bring such a juvanile element to the debate. Those who are arguing against the content do not make it wrong either. Shall we go on the see-saw now?

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

Atma was not intended to be farmed, it was intended to be gradually obtained over time.

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This is probably true. I think SE underestimates just how much the player base detests FATEs and thinks they are boring. Outside of leveling (back when dungeons were crap XP so you had no choice), did anyone ever do any FATEs at all before there were Atma to be gained from them? Of course not, we don't like them. As open world content, they are a failure because nobody does them unless they are forced to do so.

Also, you can't just release a quest (yeah, technically it's not a quest, I'm using the generic term here) and assume that people will be chill about it and not try to complete it as soon as they possibly can, people just aren't like that.

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

Well just as a heads up you have to do even more farming after the atmas. 13000 myth of farming (thats 260 dungeon runs @ 10-20 minutes each) and more fate quests and low level dungeon quests after. So try not to burn yourselves out.

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See, I don't have a problem with that. It's a visible goal with a counter I can increment just by putting in effort. Is the Atma portion of the quest like this? Nope. Any one Atma can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 100 hours of effort, with no way to know when/if you will ever be finished. In another thread someone pointed to this article Why Waiting Is Torture, here's a quote from it: "Uncertainty magnifies the stress of waiting, while feedback in the form of expected wait times and explanations for delays improves the tenor of the experience." I'd recommend taking a look at this article for anyone who doesn't understand why people are complaining.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Sure, if you want to bring such a juvanile element to the debate. Those who are arguing against the content do not make it wrong either. Shall we go on the see-saw now?

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We can if you would like. I was merely trying to point out that, while you were on your high horse, being there does not make it the right position.

Well just as a heads up you have to do even more farming after the atmas. 13000 myth of farming (thats 260 dungeon runs @ 10-20 minutes each) and more fate quests and low level dungeon quests after. So try not to burn yourselves out.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Fair, in this sense, is a very grey area. But the ranges of which people acquire these items is so ranging that it does make people question things.

Also, your reply to Djeserit's comment actually reinforces his idea. You say that as long as a rule applies to everyone, then that rule is fair. His idea would apply to everyone, and by your own logic, is fair.

A lot of people just want a more tangibly visible progression. Even if you were to double Djeserit's suggestion it is, at least, a better way have handled this feature. In its current form you can get the item you need for this quest 1 min from now, 1 hour from now, 1 day from now, 1 week from now, etc, etc, or never. A player's ability to progress on this quest is directly impinged on this.

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First of all, I'm not interested in the type of debate you want to have. Only seeing 2 or 3 of your comments it's clear you resort to trying to sound intelligent rather than saying anything worthwhile. If you want proof of this, your comment that I was 'reinforcing' Djeserets proposal only makes his solution an alternative and doesn't refute my original point at all. You are, as they say, arguing for arguments sake.

Secondly, you make it increasingly clear that you do not understand WHY Square Enix have opted for this route of progression. So yeah, to be short i'm just not interested in what you have to say.

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

Well just as a heads up you have to do even more farming after the atmas. 13000 myth of farming (thats 260 dungeon runs @ 10-20 minutes each) and more fate quests and low level dungeon quests after. So try not to burn yourselves out.

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That's fine. At least then I can measure my progress and I know that after every single dungeon I do, I know that I'm that much closer to the next part. Atma farming is just a crap shoot with no measurable progress toward the next Atma.

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Originally Posted by Drizz7

THANK YOU SE <.<

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You are lucky this grind do not involve, over 100 hours of farm >_>.

4 days farming North Shroud and nothing, so I moved to East shroud and got it within 30 mins -.- Then I tried Central, again, within an hour. Went back to North to finish off Gridania's, nothing all day. Either I have horrible luck on that zone or SE set the % differently per zone

Outer La Nocea? It wasnt until I made a joke about praying to Tom Cruise to use his witchcraft for a drop that it did drop right after! shoulda took a screenie.