Top DPS in you t5 clearing groups?

What Classes do you see doing TOP DPS on all fights?

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Originally Posted by Sab

What Classes do you see doing TOP DPS on all fights?

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No job top dps in all fights thankfully. T1 it is usually the MNK or SMN, our MNK did 324 DPS tonight http://i.imgur.com/Zefgg6I.png. T2 is irrelevant due to game mechanics, not counting enrage nub strat of course. T4 is BLM heaven, while T5 is usually the SMN or MNK based on RNG.

DRG preform the same as MNK if skills are equal give or take. As for primals ex, Garuda BLM. Titan Bard/SMN/MNK/DRG/BLM preform very well there and can top off each others form fight to fight but an excellent Bard with DRG in the party can destroy everyone in Titan ex, Ifrit I forgot.

My own observation and experience. Yours might be different so don't hate.

T1 - SMN rules, no one comes close to the multi-DoTs. MNK is closest, with it being virtually a training dummy fight if you burn Cad.
T2 - depends on route but MNK can win
T4 - BLM depending on the other members' AoE. If BLM has less time on AoE SMN can pull ahead.
T5 - SMN from all the groups I've seen. MNK is a close second but it can't compete with SMN's multi-DoTs on the Scourges, snakes, and Dreadknights.

I can confirm the claim that SMN and MNK do really well in T5. From my experience, it is almost always me and a monk competing for the #1 spot in T5, assuming the monk knows what they are doing. We do not have a monk in my static and I do not often get to play with good monks, but the one time we had to pug a melee I was super impressed.

It's really hard to judge a job based on their overall damage/dps because, as Sleigh said, SMN will naturally come ahead because of their DoT spreads and the damage that ticks while they are dodging. What I like to see is where people spike and when. Useful dps is more important to me than overall dps/damage. Most importantly, I think the use of parsers should be constructive (not just an arbitrary way to say who is better)... One example would be my static group... One of our members was not pulling their weight in dps, so we were able to (politely) bring it up and they were able to practice and improve, no feelings hurt. We were frequently hitting the hard enrage timer prior to him bringing his dps up to speed, but we one shot it last week. We complimented him on his increased damage and he mentioned he had been practicing on a dummy. :D

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

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This guy/girl and his/her group knows how to use parsers. WP my friend :). I'm serious btw not trolloing or being sarcastic as I'm a supporter of parsing everything to improve myself and the rest of my group.

Well, in T5 it´s really hard to say. Overall, i would suggest SMN - because DoT´s obviously do Damage while the Caster is Moving, also Melees are able to dodge and Damage as well, so our Monk also does good DPS.

On our Yesterday´s clearling, I was top with 271 DPS, while the 2nd Blackmage was about 220...

While i made some short Damage Stops to have Mana Full when Knights or Conflag came, and still got the Topspot... while the equally equiped BLM got caught in Conflog and Knight often, so... in my opinion, pure numbers don´t say all about the fight performance...

That´s an interesting strategy, but risky for a BLM to deplete his MP so early (when Knight spawns), cause if something goes wrong, you could stand there long time with no Mana, and watching the Knight run towards your Partymember...

could fit in when you are missing the timing and the Knight spawns while you are Firespamming, but i usually prefer being full of Mana when this happens... it´s more on the safe side, in my opinion...

T1 - MNK
T2 - MNK
T4 - MNK/SMN/BLM
T5 - MNK/SMN/BLM

T5 and T4 are far too variable in terms of methodology and RNG for most DPS results to have any meaning beyond "you didn't suck".


T1 Cad parses are skewed moderately in favor of Summoners and Bards due to multi-dotting for half the fight. It's not unusual for top-end SMNs to exceed 380, probably hit 400. MNKs should ready 380 or higher. On my DRG my friend says I parse up to 370 on Cad with most runs at 360-365. Personally, I just want some of longnu's crit% luck. A 44% crit rate on my autos would go a long way towards an epic parse. With multi-dots, Bards can actually hit some pretty high numbers. IIRC they've parsed up to 360 or so.

T2 depends a bit on methodology, and also whether you're parsing the full gauntlet or just the ADSboss. That on top of other variables tends to make people ignore the fight for parses ... unless they're doing the enrage strat. If they're doing that, then their group competency is probably not at the level where their individual skill would put out meaningful numbers.


The main issue with T4 is the extreme skew towards SMNs and BRDs for the clockwork multi-target non-AOE phases, versus the heavy skew towards BLMs and DRGs for the AOE phases. The AOE phases themselves are problematic because a second player's AOE DPS will eat away from the first player's. As a general example, the highest SMN parse I've heard about for T4 was in a group where they (and another SMN) were the only AOE/multitarget DPS.

In a group with a BLM, the SMN would never have hit those #s because the BLM would have wasted the AOE phases too quickly for DOTs + multi-Bane + Shadowflare to really deal that much damage. When you throw down a BLM + DRG + WHM Holy, then all of a sudden you have so much AOE DPS that neither DPS player will really rack up huge #s in the final parse.


T5 simply has a ton of variables. Everything from conflag/dreadstun RNG where Monks get decked 10-15 DPS on the parse for every unfavorable event, to "who gets to pew pew the first two snakes". Normally a BLM is assigned that duty. Bards can also get extra DPS from it, even if that DPS is 80% fluff / stat-padding. Summoners are the most efficient Hygeia crushers, so they tend to gain a ton of damage pad on that phase, if the group leaves it to them to drop the HP (which they should). As a minor sidenote, BLMs are actually inefficient at dropping the first 2 small snakes.

For the first 4 Turns i see myself doing top DPS, if not me in T4 then its the BLM. In the T5 clear group i have we dont have a summoner, just a blm for casters, and he does miles more damage than what everyone else put out. mind you, i sacrificed myself to the hatch to save a healer so... tough to say from that 1 clear

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

As a minor sidenote, BLMs are actually inefficient at dropping the first 2 small snakes.

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Hmm, Fire III, 3x Fire II, Flare, Convert/SC Flare, Mana pot Flare bringing them to 40% or less in 20 seconds and then switching to ST Cad feels fairly efficient to me

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Originally Posted by xEscaflownex

Hmm, Fire III, 3x Fire II, Flare, Convert/SC Flare, Mana pot Flare bringing them to 40% or less in 20 seconds and then switching to ST Cad feels fairly efficient to me

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That's not how you measure efficiency.

Efficiency is a Summoner pressing 1 button (sidenote: ok they'd probably press 3) for the same effect over your 3x meh DPS Fire 2s that you spent close to ten seconds casting and 2x slowcast Flares which cost you another what, 7s or so? SC Flare is efficient. You could have dealt 10k more damage to Aslecpius in that time if you used a ST rotation.

BLMs have solid ST DPS, and great AOE DPS.

BLMs have bad multi-target DPS. Three targets = multi-target DPS. 2-3 targets is the worst DPS profile for a BLM, aside from their burst contribution from an SC Flare. Min-maxing means losing the least amount of single target Asclepius damage in order to achieve the necessary damage on the small snakes.

The only reason BLMs are commonly used for snake pounding is because they have "no resource pool" and because SMNs are uncommon -- with a side of an SC Flare actually being "free", efficient AOE DPS.

As a result their AOE does not detract from their ST DPS elsewhere in the fight. If you ignored TP, then in a generic group maximum snake phase DPS would involve tab-DoTing by the Bard, Dragoon, and Monk (assuming you have no SMN), with the BLM using 99% single target on Asclepius while throwing in the aforementioned SC Flare. There's also probably something you could efficiently work in with 1 AOE Ice spell during UI, but I'm not smart enough on detailed BLM mechanics to say what (edit: and it would probably require Spell Speed itemization). The BLM could probably also tab-Thunder the small snakes actually. You could probably rack up a ton of TC procs.

We have 2 BLM and BRD playing MP song during first 3 snakes. MNK doesn't even bother with them. Still have 5+ seconds before 2nd set of divebombs to focus big snake.

Not to mention if BLM uses whatever that move it that stops the next damage hit they can stay in the pocket and keep burning big snake without having to move and keeping the damage up.

Don't get me wrong I think a Top end SMN would probably dominate this fight but blm is by no means slow.

Efficient enough, i´d say...

and because of Mana-Wall, you can stand there DPSing, while others have to avoid Divebombs ... any damage there is more efficient than no damage ...

Our Group (2 BLMs) stands 10-15 Seconds in the Neurolink before Twintania shows up again, sure, could be more efficient, but as im counting on results... efficient enough for me ;-)

/edit: Soulburn? Wouldn´t "Foe Requiem" be the better Choice? Blackmages don´t tend to have MP Shortage ^^

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Originally Posted by wicked-one

because DoT´s obviously do Damage while the Caster is Moving

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Seriously... why do people still think this is a valid justification? Damage is only meaningful in relation to the GCD. Lose a GCD while dodging? You lost a GCD of potential damage. Having a DoT up has absolutely no effect on that.

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Originally Posted by Sigred

Seriously... why do people still think this is a valid justification? Damage is only meaningful in relation to the GCD. Lose a GCD while dodging? You lost a GCD of potential damage. Having a DoT up has absolutely no effect on that.

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Obviously, because I have no Endgame experience as SMN... and People keep saying that a SMN does most damage by his DoTs´,... so feel free to correct me.

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Originally Posted by wicked-one

so feel free to correct me.

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Sure.

The reason why movement doesn't impede Summoners as much is not because their damage is DoT-centric. It's because their normal casted filler damage (Ruin) is so craptastic that moving doesn't hurt them as much as BLMs (and they replace it with Ruin2, which is basically the same with a higher mana cost).

It's just design coincidence that DoT-centric classes tend to have stronger DoT damage per cast GCD and weaker direct damage filler abilities compared to direct-damage-centric classes.

BLM / SMN / BRD / Melee

This seems to be the best group to me for all content. Each has their moments to shine.

When Corsair comes out it will be interesting to see what people sacrifice to bring them.

In most fights with my group it's either our MNK or myself at the top, and we're almost always within a few thousand HP of damage or ~10dps of each other. In some fights I can overtake him drastically but that's because our BRD is really amazing with his song usage. He even knows I need Foes up before I re-apply dots for it to matter and tries to learn when I use raging strikes/int pots in each fight to optimize it further.

We don't usually parse fights though since we don't really need to, just if we're curious. Our MT PLD does use the Twintania stuff to help with calling out things or his own rotations, but even before that update he'd pretty much have every fight memorized.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

On my DRG my friend says I parse up to 370 on Cad with most runs at 360-365.

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Would love to see a SS of the turn 1 dps if you're doing that much.

We didn't run it last night so if I remember to ask my friend to save it I will.

all this thread did was open my eyes that maybe our SMN needs to step up his game. I parse top on all turns as DRG most of the time, and the only real competition is on T4 vs the BLM we are neck-and-neck at the end. Heck even on T5 I was about 25% ahead of the rest of the group. Our SMN is usually 15-20% behind on all turns on average, and that is counting pet DPS. But then again I don't do 360 on Cad... Think I hit about 340 but don't have Allagan Spear/Gloves/Boots yet. EasyMode you use ACT or App?

Last night I was parsed 331 DPS on Caudecus with my monk but I did kinda messed up my start so it took a while to get up there, would've gone higher easily but it died too quick since we just went with one tank. D:
Still missing my weapon too.

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

all this thread did was open my eyes that maybe our SMN needs to step up his game. I parse top on all turns as DRG most of the time

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You do count his pet damage though right? A SMN by himself will never be above a melee.

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

ACT or App?

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My friend uses ACT.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

My friend uses ACT.

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Just remembered that ACT stores data in history. Does you friend know he can pull up past encounters without the game up? =P
Looking through the cad fights from the last 6 weeks, I average about 320... I'll have to look into that but our SMN is pulling about 265 with pet dps. T5 was closer than I thought as our SMN pulled about 290 but still the DRG was over 310. Not sure how we are parsing higher on Twin than we are straight burn on Cad <__< kinda bizarre. I wonder if maybe something is skewing the data.

Twin has several other targets that you do damage to and is a longer fight, allowing for more cooldown usage.

I'd just like to point out that the best way to maximize DPS on T5 would entail a bit of poor decision making.

Throughout the entire encounter, hitting Asclepius after receiving four Disseminate stacks would do the most damage. If you saved offensive cooldowns for this phase and unloaded them on 4-stack Asclepius, it will skyrocket your DPS.

The smarter decision would be to use your cooldowns to kill the 3rd and 4th Hygeia. This is the real DPS race, because if you kill them too slowly and if they die too late, the off-tank and melee will still have the Disseminate debuff when Twintania does her Aetheric Profusion. A common misconception that Asclepius is the real DPS race, but in actuality, killing the Hygeia quicker means DPS can continue on Asclepius sooner.

Take "top Twintania DPS" with a grain of salt. It would be more meaningful if DPS couldn't make the bad decision of waiting for 4-stack Asclepius before they unload their offensive cooldowns and potions.

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

Just remembered that ACT stores data in history. Does you friend know he can pull up past encounters without the game up? =P
Looking through the cad fights from the last 6 weeks, I average about 320... I'll have to look into that but our SMN is pulling about 265 with pet dps.

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265 is extremely low for SMN in T1. I'm pretty sure you can do more than that with full DL + Zenith.

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

Just remembered that ACT stores data in history. Does you friend know he can pull up past encounters without the game up? =P

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Oh nifty, I'll ask him when I get home tonight and see ^_^. That would save some RNG.

T1- either me(monk) or the summoner
T2- me
T4-summoner
T5-either me or the summoner

T5:SMN top with no contest then DRG is a little higher than MNK.We did a lot of try now and I(the DRG) never successed to have a higher dps than our SMN.But i did have a higher DPS than the MNK but not by a lot.SMN first cause of the multi-dots.And DRG first before MNK i think because of the stronger dots you can put on Twitania before going away to dodge the Dreadknight and the fact that you won't miss your positional skills on her when she's throwning multiples AOE in P5.She turn a lot so the mnk miss some spells.Not all of them but enough to make him less stronger here.But he's still high in dps.Would say if the SMN is at 320 dps,DRG will be at 300 and MNK 295-290.

Reloading from the history database apparently results in some strange allocations. My friend said he had to go in and manually add two separate sections together to get the results, as depicted in this composite of 2 screenshots: http://i.imgur.com/ZIQmd39.png

Also of note, Selene is a factor.

Edit: *Cad parse.

@EMX

That screen shot is interesting. My friend runs ACT to parse. According to him I'm consistently around 300 dps for Cad (I typically just stay on one snake the whole time. The team feeds both slimes). I don't have the allagan spear, but wonder if he wasn't adding in auto attack dps per your screen shot. I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why other dragoons with full i90 claim to be doing so much more sustained than me. I believe I know have my answer. Thanks for that screen shot.

T1: MNK poops on Cad.
T2: Depends on the route. MNK if left, SMN if right.
T3: Whoever's tanking, lol.
T4: SMN.
T5: Depends on how the fight goes, but if all goes to plan, MNK. If things get hellish, SMN.

Garuda EX: SMN.
Titan EX: SMN.
Ifrit EX: SMN.

I'm the only DRG, but also the only BRD, so I don't get to compete for top DPS, just make the SMN DPS higher.

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Originally Posted by mythicrose

wonder if he wasn't adding in auto attack dps per your screen shot.

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Normal parses will have the AA damage included appropriately. That one seems to be odd because my friend reloaded the parse information from the ACT historical archive, which apparently messes with things.

Either way it's easy to check -- the regular parse itself should simply have an AA damage listing there, in the ballpark of 20-25%.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Either way it's easy to check -- the regular parse itself should simply have an AA damage listing there, in the ballpark of 20-25%.

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Hmm.. I'll have to ask him. Granted I don't have the allagan spear, I do use the optimal dps rotation with cool downs, HQ buttons in a blanket, and full i90 geared...but can't believe I'm only doing 300ish dps. *Shrug* I've been wrong before.

T1 - SMN
T2 - DRG
T3 - LOL?
T4 - BLM
T5 - SMN

My group SMN all the turns.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Reloading from the history database apparently results in some strange allocations. My friend said he had to go in and manually add two separate sections together to get the results, as depicted in this composite of 2 screenshots: http://i.imgur.com/ZIQmd39.png

Also of note, Selene is a factor.

Edit: *Cad parse.

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my friend isn't having that issue at all with his info. It seems to load up just fine.
http://s17.postimg.org/u75vfedbj/Twin_DPS.jpg

and here is our Cad from this week. Again, not hitting 340+ like you are, but it does turn out our SMN is doing more than I origianally thought.. but still not up to par apprently.
http://s24.postimg.org/3urvavdv9/Cad_DPS.jpg

EDIT: just to give ya an idea of what DRG can do in T4 also. This gets my TP very low but I never run completely out, and you can see DRG can keep up with BLM and we clear it in about 5 and a half minutes.
http://s28.postimg.org/tjy6i0559/T4_DPS.jpg

T1 - SMN
T2 - MNK
T3 - SMN (if you guys still count it LOLz)
T4 - SMN
T5 - SMN or MNK, depends how luck there, usually SMN but MNK is not second place at all if he did perfectly