Ok so I was thinking about this last night.... And while we are all tied up on the existing model in which a Class branches into Jobs at level 30 with an alternate leveled to 15....
And since we all know that ACN was built ground up to branch into SCH and SMN at lvl 30... every other Class will eventually split the same way into the existing job and an alternate job to make way for 2 roles out of each Class....
I want to propose something different....
EACH JOB SPLITS INTO 2 NEW "JOBS" (lets call them SECTS)
At lvl 50 or 55, your Job's story line will go in the lines of finding "another" master like the one you already have been working with that is of a different mindset.... and would teach you a new way of doing things
ARCHER- lvl 30 BARD- lvl 55 RANGER or SUPER BARD
in this way.... the lvl 55 Bard would get more songs like minuet, foe lullaby, etc, etc
the RNG- would have all existing bard mechanics, but transition into a real DPS RNG with new LB
LNC- lvl 30 DRG- lvl 55 Templar or Super DRG
the lvl 55 DRG would continue on the path of the dragon, maybe being able to call in a wyvern for maximum dps
the TMP would become tank like, and would gain enmity generating abilities.... hence a LNC tank only upon reaching max current level
PUG- lvl 30 MNK- lvl 55 Dancer or Super MNK
ok at 55, you could be introduced to the female monk.... that has her own way of doing things in a support/healer role while being a melee as well.
If you follow my logic here.... and the Super tag can basically be changed into a new title which i leave open for your own interpretation....
My logic being.... In order to unlock the LNC tank option.... you will need to have a tank leveled as such to say 45 to unlock..... that way you arent thrown into a new alt role with out any mechanics learned....
A Ranger would need a SMN leveled to 45.... hence a ranged DPS to become a true DPSer.....
A MNK would need 45 leveled as a WHM to unlock.... opening up the buff abilities
This would make unlocking the "new" jobs/sect harder to achieve if you havent leveled all classes.... and not everyone becomes a dancer the day after the launch.... it also proves that you need to have experience in the complementary role up through the 40s before you can use it as well.... and more importantly... it creates a new model to branch jobs off...... where the Ranger can split again at level 65/70 into something else in 4 or 5 years to a engineer or something
New Idea for future "Jobs"
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02-07-2014, 11:51 PMSkyHighDNNew Idea for future "Jobs"
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02-08-2014, 01:08 AMGandora
They just need to add more base classes, problem fixed.
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02-08-2014, 01:49 AMMinimefuzzy
I'm okay with the classes ath the moment. I think that they should add more jobs like maybe Red Mage? That would be cool ^_^
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02-08-2014, 04:55 AMSkyHighDN
wow..... 2 replies, and neither even have any relevance to my original topic.... sooo
Before this turns into a "Why the Job system sucks/doesnt suck" thread....
I will restate my original topic...
The next "phase" of the Job system will take a CLASS (ARCH, ACN, GLD, MRD, THM, CNJ) to lvl 30 to unlock JOBS with the accompaniment of an alt leveled to 15.....
Now... the next phase will unlock a SECT (or whatever other term it can be called) at level 50/55 as a branch off from a JOB.... sooo stay on the path of a BARD, or branch over to a RANGER. The abilities would be linked still, and new skills will be introduced off of the Job in your new role. The SECT would require a level 40/45 alt to unlock
now... feedback ON TOPIC PLEASE -
02-08-2014, 06:06 AMMardelQuote:
Originally Posted by Minimefuzzy
Sadly, I don't want Red Mage to be implemented unless it becomes a spell blade of sorts. Otherwise it will likely be a heavily broken job :/'
As for the OP:
Not sure if going and making a class "super" or an advanced version of the existing class is needed. Essentially what would be happening would be just the same as getting a new class/job by the time proper changes were made to make it not-broken.
I mean I get where you are going but it's just the same thing... based off of job and not class. -
02-08-2014, 07:15 AMGandoraQuote:
Originally Posted by SkyHighDN
http://www.mcbroom.biz/Public/Icons/...palm-hogan.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by SkyHighDN
Hope this reply is relevant enough. -
02-08-2014, 07:18 AMSkyHighDN
I was just trying to think of a way in which the Dark Knight which we all know will get implemented eventually (can't wait BTW).... doesn't become the immediate highest population character played 3 hours after the patch that it arrives with..
Imagine it now.... They split the DRK character as a DPS-er off of Gladiator..... great!!! now EVERY SINGLE TANK will be switching their main job over to DRK, because it only requires a 15 THM to unlock it..... meaning the population of tanks literally shrank by half in about 2 hours.
My thoughts were basically to throw the unlock way higher..... like requiring a lvl 40 alt to unlock..... and again, there are a lot of lvl 50 across the board players.... but how many casuals, and end game tunnel vision players that play a tank role have actually leveled a BLM through the 40's.... not as many as you would think, and that being said, there wouldnt be this mad rush on everyone switching to the DRK. -
02-15-2014, 02:32 AMTwizffxiConsidering the Skill Set that Gladiator offers it will be safe to assume that if/when Dark Knight is added and branches from Gladiator that DRK will indeed be a Tank Class. only skills that Paladin get are Sword/Shield Oaths, Cover, Spirits Within, Hallowed Ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHighDN
Add in DRK skills such as Reaping, Souleater, and Drain. DRK will be a HP leech Tank.
PLD- Strong Mitigation
WAR- HP Pool and Strong HP Regen/Weak Leech
DRK- Medium Mitigation/Medium~Strong Leech
As for the OP topic. Secondary Branching from the Advanced Jobs sound nice.
WAR > Berserker(dps) & Defender(tank)
MNK > Brawler(tank) & Shaolin (dps)
BRD > Minstral(Support DPS) & Ranger (DPS loss of Songs)
WHM> Holy (Healer with Shields) & Divine (Healer with Spikes)
BLM > Blood (poisons/leech/drains) & Chaos (more Enfeebles)
SMN > Necromancer(yep...) & Umbral ( Fenrir!!!!!!)
SCH > Pupetmaster(yep...) & Astral( Advanced Carbuncle that combines Both Fairies into one.
DRG > Dragon Slayer(Stronger DPS and removal of Postion requirements) & Beast Master (Wyvern Pet + More Jumps) -
02-15-2014, 04:12 AMEhayte
GLD > DRK - Unless you set it so that you need like 2 or 3 OTHER classes/jobs @ 50 to get DRK, whether its 2 hours or 2 days, whoever is going to change is going to change.
OP - Yoshi has mentioned "Advanced Jobs," in which he said something like WHM50/BLM50 = RDM. I would imagine, if that is the way they go, those jobs would be the "support" jobs they have been hinting at, it would end up like this-ish:
50WHM/50BLM = RDM - support/dps (buff dps allies)
50THF/50MNK = NIN - DPS/Offtank, burst tanking abilities through evasion and short duration debuffs
50DRG/50SCH = BLU - DPS/support, adding max HP/MP/TP buffs with monster abilities, puesdo healer and some high risk dmging abilities all from melee range
50WAR/50BLM = DRK - DPS/Utility, high focus on DPS with utilities like aggro re-direction, blind, slow, poison, high magic/phys def. -
02-16-2014, 07:24 AMExstalDo you have a link to this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehayte
Didn't Yoshida also say Ninja will never be able to tank? -
02-16-2014, 07:50 AMKitruI'm too lazy to find a link atm, but I recall that he was saying it was just one of a number of ideas they've had for expanding/progressing the existing job system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
Yes. Multiple times.Quote:
Didn't Yoshida also say Ninja will never be able to tank?
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02-16-2014, 09:18 AMDyne_FellpoolQuote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
Thank God!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
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02-16-2014, 08:41 PMEdellis
I think more important than the classes they add are the roles they define.
I think that in the future, advanced Jobs should hold a special type of Role, instead of DPS/Healer/Tank. Maybe new role types that would actually allow you to replace one or two of the original roles in duty finder.
For instance, if Gladiator + Cnj = Paladin( Tank role), then Paladin + White Mage = Holy Knight, can queue as a Tank or a Healer
Dunno how it would work, or how you'd mix and match jobs, but my general idea is instead of DPS/DPS/Heal/Tank, you could have HybridDef/HybridDef/Hybrid Off/Hybrid Off.
Would make later dungeons way more interesting. -
02-16-2014, 11:26 PMThyrel
That second tier with jobs coming from 2 jobs instead of classes sounds really good.
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02-17-2014, 07:15 AMKitruPersonally, I think it sounds like a terrible idea because, at that point, you're forcing people to level up 4 classes, two to 30 and two to 15, in order to play the one class that they actually want to play. The current job system forcing you to play a secondary class to level 15 works, mainly because the game wants to force you to have at least a modicum of viable cross class skills, but forcing that much cross-class play just gets annoying. It gets even worse if you require a progression along a given job instead of simply having access to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thyrel
The idea of combining jobs to get new ones works for people that actively play multiple jobs already (of which I am one) but not everyone plays every job. For people like me, it's no limitation whatsoever, but, for people that only play a single job or limited number, it's an arbitrary hurdle.
Personally, I dearly hope that they don't feel compelled to add advanced jobs that act as fusions of two separate jobs because it would require dramatic reworking of the armory system without really adding anything new to the game. Combining WHM with BLM to get RDM makes no sense from a gameplay standpoint because WHM and BLM have completely different playstyles; to have the combination generate RDM, you'd have to create an entirely new class with a whole new set of abilities and traits, which isn't how jobs work (they're simply templates applied to a base class). They could just as easily create an entirely new class and have RDM act as a job for it instead of requiring the combination of two.
The entire idea of "advanced jobs" is bad. Jobs are already the "advanced/specialized" version of a given class, which is what the entire armory system is built off of. Advancing/specializing further makes no sense, especially if you're just looking for a new class entirely, because the jobs already provide the specialization to the baseline functionality of the class through a minimal number of abilities. An advanced job would have to render the current jobs completely and totally superfluous (keep in mind, jobs do not render classes superfluous because the classes still provide abilities as traits as you level up; classes provide 17-18 abilities and 7+ traits whereas all jobs only provide 5 abilities) or do so little that it means next to nothing. -
02-19-2014, 07:29 AMTwizffxiPeoples aversion to ninja Tank is just silly. Don't get me wrong i know that ninja are not a Tank and should not tank but concept for them to be an EVASION tank is higher then any other class/job in the entire FF Universe.Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by Exstal View Post
Didn't Yoshida also say Ninja will never be able to tank?
Kitru's Avatar
Quote Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Yes. Multiple times.
Thank God!
The Use of Shadows to Absorb hits is Unique to Ninja.
And if you where Faced with a Person who use Ninjustu to Confuse, Disorientate, and Distract the Enemy from the MAIN force While Avoiding Damage as much as possible then YES Ninja can and should be Classified a Tank.
Yes they are Soft and can't take hits. But they would be considered a High Skill and Risk Job with a High Return Rate on Success.
If i was in a Fight with a Guy in Heavy Armor with a Sword/Board, Another with Heavy Armor and a Giant Axe, and then a Guy with Black Armor Which looked like there was 4-6 of them who was Darting Around.
My Focus would be on the Black Garb darting around as HE would the most Dangerous regardless of the Presence of the Heavy Tanks nearby.
Heavy Armor does not mean Biggest Threat. -
02-19-2014, 09:40 AMDyne_FellpoolYou should have quit right there while you were ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twizffxi
The whole point of ninjas is to be stealthy -- to AVOID detection and fade into the shadows. They are the embodiment of the exact opposite of "holding enmity".
The idea of them purposely holding an enemies attention is silly.
The ONLY time Ninjas were remotely tanky is in FFXI, which was a terrible game and screwed up a lot of things about FF. It should not be used as a basis for anything ever.
I realize you likely disagree with that since your name is "Twizffxi" but surely even you must see that FFXI did a lot of crap to various classes to try to shoehorn them into an MMO context that just didnt mesh well with what they have traditionally always been in FF, Ninja perhaps most of all.
Ninjas dont want attention. They dont want enmity. They dont take hits well and dont magically dodge everything. They want to hide in the shadows, unseen, and wait for an opportune time to strike and then fade back into the shadows. Calling a Ninja a tank is like calling a Berserker a healer. I know it, the vast majority of FF fans (other than some ffxi fanboys) know it, and thank god Yoshi P seems to know it. -
02-19-2014, 01:32 PMExstalDancer or Berserker is a better job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twizffxi
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02-20-2014, 10:57 AMVonnHrothgore
I would like to see a class that dual wields pistols. Id throw my money at square enix for that.
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02-20-2014, 11:42 AMXanderOlivieriIf Merlwyb is anything to focus on, we'll have it. Paladins are somewhat based on the Sultana's Guards from what I saw of my brother's questline introing the Paladin's Soul Stone. I think some of the jobs still exist for specific NPCs to mirror. So if we have an NPC with a special type of job, it could be a hint towards what we can expect since they'd be based on the same concept of the Class/Job system.Quote:
Originally Posted by VonnHrothgore
That being said...what the hell was the shield bearing general from the Garlean army? I know there was a supposed "Shield" based class in one of the many "new Jobs" threads, I just don't remember what it was called. -
02-20-2014, 11:51 AMbarbosa
ninja was never meant to be a tank in 11 either yet it ended up being so..... but I wanna play ninja so bad no matter what role
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02-20-2014, 02:00 PMWarrlordd
I think that if they implement NIN and DRK one or the other would be a tank. Since NIN is a dumb idea for tank, well the odds are on DRK to be the tank in that one. Both seem equally desired and Yoshi said he'd prefer to implement classes that people are anxious for.
Btw in case anyone still thinks NIN oughta tank, it's a dumb idea. staaahhhp it. -
02-20-2014, 03:26 PMEnkidohPLDs are the royal guards of Ul'dah - they're called the Sultansworn, and PLD AF is their official uniform. The player is actually called a 'free PLD' though, essentially a hedge knight rather than one in service to a monarch like the Sultansworn are.Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri
The 'shield' class you refer to was actually in 1.0 at the start of service, it was called 'Sentinel' (or 'SEN' for short) - it wasn't a true Discipline of War though, but rather a sub-class opened up if you equipped a shield. However, although all classes that could equip shields gained Skill Points towards the class, only GLA could actually make use of SEN abilities, and then only if they were equipped with a shield. SEN was scrapped when classes were redesigned to allow Jobs to be added however, so this is now redundant. I presume Rhtitayn's class was a unique one that made use of his special magitek weaponry, like the other Garlean bosses, so it's highly unlikely such abilities would ever offered to the player.Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri
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02-21-2014, 08:58 AMTwizffxiCorrect Remain Hidden Until they Attack. Which Give them an Advantage and allows them to deal a Lethal blow. And then run away as they are not Suited for Sustained Combat? Incorrect. Ninja's would Attack and then be Chased. where they draw the target into a 1v1 or #v1 fight where they would have the Advantage. But this a game so that would never happen the ninja would have to stand and fight solo....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyne_Fellpool
Until they Strike. at which Time any enemy which has not been killed in the initial attack is Acutely and INTENTLY aware of there presence and is Actively and purposely seeking to eliminate them. IE giving Chase or focusing soley on that target while being draw to a location where he would be at a disadvantage and surrounded. But this a game so that would never happen the ninja would just Disappear and could return to kill the target who's health wouldnt regenerate after the ninja left combat....Quote:
They are the embodiment of the exact opposite of "holding enmity".
The idea of them purposely holding an enemies attention is silly.
I disagree that FFXI was a Terrible game. Considering the Platform it was developed for and the Overall design it was good for its time. And its Performance shows that i am not only one to agree. But yes it did Shoehorn alot... no it didn't Players did. Ninja wasn't developed as a tank it was Frontline Melee/cast Hybrid that players shoehorned into the role.Quote:
The ONLY time Ninjas were remotely tanky is in FFXI, which was a terrible game and screwed up a lot of things about FF.
I realize you likely disagree with that since your name is "Twizffxi" but surely even you must see that FFXI did a lot of crap to various classes to try to shoehorn them into an MMO context that just didnt mesh well with what they have traditionally always been in FF, Ninja perhaps most of all.
So we agree that Ninja should be a DPS class. Good.Quote:
Ninjas dont want attention. They dont want enmity. They dont take hits well and dont magically dodge everything. They want to hide in the shadows, unseen, and wait for an opportune time to strike and then fade back into the shadows.
i was simply saying that Ninja ALSO used tactics that would incite Fear in their targets which would spread stories that would cause anyone to focus on anyone that resembles a Story. As i said before Heavy Armor does not mean Biggest Threat.
Players will use jobs how they want and Fit them into any roll they can. Dragoon OT in Garuda EX is a prime example of that. They are not meant to tank but they can do it since players choose to. i have Used my MNK to tank bossing in Dungeons and Monk is CLEARLY not a tank class right? -
02-21-2014, 09:18 AMXanderOlivieriI only brought this up because in another thread (I think it was another. pretty sure it wasn't here) someone said that the Job Stones were for Jobs that no longer exists. To the best of my knowledge only Summoner and Scholar were lost arts and all of the other Job stone classes existed in Eorzea. I only knew about the Sultansworn cause my brother just unlocked his Paladin and I sat there and watched him do the opening quest. My point there was to the person I was responding to: Merlwyb uses 2 Guns as her main focus for a weapon and is most likely the Job class that follows the Musketeer. Kanna-E-Sanna is also a White Mage I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
Thank you for assisting my post with more accurate information though.
Taking his skills out of the equation cause even the chick in the White Armor and the guy in Red Armor had different skills than their supposed Eorzean Class. I would like to see a Shield as a main weapon based class. Like with Merlwyb, I'd like to at least count it as a possibility for a future Class/Job. Though that is simply my wishful thinking for more diverse Class sets. (Makes me think of Royal Knight from Ragnarok Online, the 3.0 Job Class for Crusader who uses 2 shields as weapons and can equip a shield in the main weapon slot.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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02-22-2014, 03:17 AMKitruIt depends upon how you define "lost art".Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri
The only remaining WARs are from a barbarian tribe far to the north that have largely died out. Curious Gorge is the last remnant of the WAR fighting style.
BLM is explicitly a lost art because you're tapping in to magicks that were sealed away long ago. You're aren't just *a* Black Mage in its story; you are the *Black Mage*. The others that you deal with are either heralds possessed by other powers or caretakers of secrets that they aren't entirely capable of accessing.
WHM is an art lost to anyone that isn't a Padshal (or whatever the race of the ruler of Gridania is) because they refused to teach it to anyone that wasn't one of them when it was sealed away in the same time that Black Magic was.
The most important thing to realize is that classes are accessible to pretty much anyone: you join the guild and, even if you're not great at it, you can still learn what they're up to. The jobs, on the other hand, are exclusive. WAR and BRD are only accessible through mentors who are caretakers of rare/lost arts; BLM, SMN, and SCH are lost arts only now coming back; WHM and PLD can only be taught by *incredibly* exclusive organizations with very strict admittance policies; MNK can only be learned by someone with a specific type of chakra; DRG is only usable by whoever literally carries the soulstone and is chosen as *the* dragoon.
Basically, classes are available to everyone while jobs are available only to a *tiny* subset of people with unique capabilities or destinies. Also, even if classes can be used by anyone in Eorzea, it's also important to remember that you're the *best* practitioner of that art in the entire guild; at level 30, you've basically gained skills on par with the guildmaster, who directs you to your job quest because they sense that you can do even more (and they are, themselves, at the limits of their skills). -
02-22-2014, 03:22 AMKitruI greatly doubt that Red Mage would be a straight up caster. The only game where Red Mage was like that was FFXI, which the ARR devs have shown a predilection towards not following too closely. Red Mage has, historically, been more of a melee/caster hybrid that uses swords, white magic, and black magic interchangeably. As such, if they don't implement the hybrid role, which RDM would be pretty much the archetype of, it would probably make more sense for RDM to be an mDPS melee fighter with a magical theme (e.g. sword strikes empowered by magic or sword strikes complimented by magic).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
The most likely next healer would probably be Dancer, since there aren't really very many healers in the FF series beyond WHM, and it fits somewhat (BRD would make *more* sense, but BRD is a DPS so that's out). There's a reason that the devs had to go with SCH, which has a tiny and very vague definition in the series, as a second healer. The "healer" for the series has pretty much *always* been WHM and nothing else. Besides Dancer and *maybe* Chemist (not likely due to the ALC DoH job), every other "healer" job is basically just a minute variation/specialization on WHM.