SMN - Pet Questions

So I've been dragging my heels on my SMN to play my DRG and now that my DRG is iLvl90, I'm playing it again and noticing things have somewhat changed.

Garuda > Ifrit

1. Contagion above average great and Radiant Shield a complete mismatch.
   
2. Garuda works with For Requiem while Ifrit works with Dragon Kick.
   
3. Garuda work off of spell speed vs Ifrit works off of skill speed(why?).

Does Ifrit at least put out more personal DPS than Garuda? It seems unlikely since the more high level gear you have, the higher the chance that spell speed will randomly be on it.

From where I'm standing, Ifrit looks terrible. And that seems weird since one of my 5 SMN job abilities were used to get him.

Any comments would be appreciated. Sorry if this has been posted before, search gave me a lot of things on ifrit and garuda ex this morning.

no ifrit is terrible never summon it ever. Garuda does slightly less damage than ifrit but makes up for it with contagion which makes your dmg stronger. = Profit

Using base damage Ifrit does more as he also does a basic attack every 2-3 seconds. Honestly I think it's more of personal preference. I like using Ifrit more than garuda, especially since his ultimate does more damage and attacks a target rather than just around himself. Remember they're two different jobs. This would be like saying BLM is better than MNK. Both have their roles to fill.

Honestly Ifrit in this game is the same as every single FF game before it. You use him til you get better summons and you never use him again. Sure in FFVI it was AWESOME when you got him and Shiva but it wasn't long before you lawled in his face as you rocked Bahamut. FFXIV went the way of FFXI Garuda ftw!

Please don't use Ifrit >.<, the only time it is ok is in PVP I have read because he chases and harasses the mages but I have not done any PvP so I would not take that to the bank. However no SMN that knows the best rotation and job set up would ever suggest as it stands using Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by DBthaONE

Using base damage Ifrit does more as he also does a basic attack every 2-3 seconds. Honestly I think it's more of personal preference. I like using Ifrit more than garuda, especially since his ultimate does more damage and attacks a target rather than just around himself. Remember they're two different jobs. This would be like saying BLM is better than MNK. Both have their roles to fill.

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not really even Topaz carby does better than ifrit, trust me Contagion > ifrit. your holding the party back with Ifrit especially if its a fightneed stun that ifrit spams that cancels out plds stun which is better than ifrits stun.

Ifrit has higher potencies but his attacks rely on your strength and attack stats. Garuda's attack has less potency but hers relies on your magic stat and int. Garuda's 100 potency wind blade will hit for 200+ while Ifrit's 120 potency move will hit for 120 and his auto attack for 60ish for me. Along with that his main attack is on a 4 second timer instead of a 3 second timer as it should be, so he lets it out slower. With both on Obey Garuda does slightly more dps (like 3-5, pretty tiny) but contagion weighs far too heavily in Garuda's favor for nearly every encounter.

Ifrit is useful in PvP though since he has an auto attack.

It makes you wonder how they are going to balance future egis and how they are going to make them useful for future encounters.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

snip

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Just as a note, Ifrit does scale off of INT.

However.

-Ifrit does less DPS than Garuda unless on Sic, where he's equal(but uses a stun and AoE)
-Ifrit is melee
-Ifrit uses Skill Speed and DK rather than Spell Speed and Foe Req

What I see some people do that I would not recommend, unless the fight is less than a minute long, is having a MNK and starting with Garuda. They would Contagion their RS DoTs, and then Swiftcast Ifrit for Rouse+Spur+Enkindle, and keep Ifrit out.
DK does have 100%, or close to it, uptime, so generally Ifrit in a balanced party will do more straight DPS.
However, this doesn't factor in repeated Contagion use(esp. with Foe Req), uptime on the mob due to ranged/melee issues, and uses a lot of MP. While we don't bottom out nearly as fast as before due to losing Thunder, we still have MP issues.

Oh he does scale on Int? Pretty sure he uses our attack stat instead of magic though. Otherwise his 120 potency move should be hitting for much more than it does.

MP is definitely an issue in extreme primals. AoEs for garuda, Ruin2s on gaols for titan while getting thrown around.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Along with that his main attack is on a 4 second timer instead of a 3 second timer as it should be, so he lets it out slower.

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Wow.....it totally is 4 seconds.

I'm going to submit a ticket.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Oh he does scale on Int? Pretty sure he uses our attack stat instead of magic though. Otherwise his 120 potency move should be hitting for much more than it does.

MP is definitely an issue in extreme primals. AoEs for garuda, Ruin2s on gaols for titan while getting thrown around.

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I think it just scales differently, because if it did do 20% more than Garuda, AND he had an auto-attack--There would be no reason to use Garuda, ever.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

I think it just scales differently, because if it did do 20% more than Garuda, AND he had an auto-attack--There would be no reason to use Garuda, ever.

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Garuda > RS > DoTs > Contagion > SwiftCast > Ifrit > Obey

Good reason for Garuda right there. Also, Garuda is ranged, which makes target acquisition faster. Ifrit can also die a lot easier in cone or PBoA heavy bosses.

Ideally, Ifrit + MNK = Power Combo, just like DRG + BRD


The other thing is 120 potency is physical damage from Ifrit. Mobs take more magic damage than they do physical damage. So Garuda's 100 magical damage actually does more than Ifrit's 120 physical damage.

Also, you can gear Garuda for spell speed and it lowers her recasts. Ifrit works off of skill speed, which you won't have, and is slower DPS or equal to Garuda.

At least how I've been seeing it, and why I asked for other input on the forums, Ifrit looks broken down and bad compared to Garuda. That just reeks of bad game balance, which the rest of this game does not. So it seemed really out of place.

Ifrit on Obey with a MNK is still barely going to do more dps than Garuda without a BRD. And any fight long enough for that to matter is going to kill your MP. Also you should use swift on SF during your RS.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Ifrit on Obey with a MNK is still barely going to do more dps than Garuda without a BRD. And any fight long enough for that to matter is going to kill your MP. Also you should use swift on SF during your RS.

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Should have specified, IF Ifrit didn't suck, then it would be nice to have to it as an option for a good pair with MNK. As it stands, Garuda helps you do more damage and save MP. There doesn't seem to be any reason to bring ifrit anywhere since it's riddled with inadequacies.

Ifrit does more damage overall than Garuda, simply because Burning Strike (Ifrit's main attack) has a potency of 120 while Garuda's Wind Blade has a potency of 100. I generally go to Ifrit for normal tank and spank fights. A good use for Ifrit, for example, is in the Atomos battle where I can send Ifrit to beat on Atomos while I stand on the platform and handle adds.

Garuda, however, is better for multi-target fights, as Garuda can switch targets much easier than Ifrit can. Garuda's Contagion ability is also something that should be used often, especially in conjunction with Bane, as well as in boss fights with Raging Strikes. Quick-cast Ifrit when done, though, if you want to use Ifrit.

So, which is better? Depends on the fight and the situation.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

So, which is better? Depends on the fight and the situation.

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PvE: Garuda Better
PvP: Ifrit Better (Though pvp is still in early stages)


I already made a 10+ page thread on why Ifrit sucks Here, where the consensus was that Garuda is always better in reality.

It may be nice to theorycraft fancy rotations in front of dummies where it seems optimal to use contagion & then swiftcast Ifrit, but this is always an extreme waste of MP and less DPS because during the time you *swift* summoned Ifrit, Garuda could've hit a few more auto attacks, not to mention you lose future contagions and the huge advantage of ranged DPS.

The potency of Ifrit's attacks are misleading and for some reason most summoners overlook reality, where Ifrit has to walk all the way to his target in order to hit it, you lose out on the major DPS boost of contagion every minute, and Ifrit's enkindle only does more damage after the resulting DoT fully tics (garuda's is actually better for burst).

Even in "tank and spank" fights you are gimping your DPS if you use Ifrit instead of Garuda.

The main reason Ifrit is better in PvP has to do with the way the pet system works with Line-Of-Sight, and how you can't give your pets commands when they are separated by an object or significant elevation. I believe this to be a bug, because the error will say "cannot use while casting" when you try to spam a pet attack, even though pet attacks can be activated while casting under normal circumstances. In PvP specifically, Ifrit works better on Sic and does serious damage if/when he does catch up to his target, and will hit around corners where Garuda will be interrupted and almost never hit a capable player.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

Ifrit does more damage overall than Garuda, simply because Burning Strike (Ifrit's main attack) has a potency of 120 while Garuda's Wind Blade has a potency of 100.

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The potency doesn't matter when Wind Blade is magic and burning strike is physical. They hit about the same considering ifrit's auto attack, then his timer makes his dps gradually become slower. Sure he'll do slightly more on sic but you shouldnt leave him on sick

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Originally Posted by Keyln

Ifrit does more damage overall than Garuda, simply because Burning Strike (Ifrit's main attack) has a potency of 120 while Garuda's Wind Blade has a potency of 100. I generally go to Ifrit for normal tank and spank fights. A good use for Ifrit, for example, is in the Atomos battle where I can send Ifrit to beat on Atomos while I stand on the platform and handle adds.

Garuda, however, is better for multi-target fights, as Garuda can switch targets much easier than Ifrit can. Garuda's Contagion ability is also something that should be used often, especially in conjunction with Bane, as well as in boss fights with Raging Strikes. Quick-cast Ifrit when done, though, if you want to use Ifrit.

So, which is better? Depends on the fight and the situation.

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Ifrit does less DPS than Garuda straight out.

Don't just look at the potency.

Hi, not played SMN to 50 yet but is planning to, got a questiong if people have tried it.

From what I've read occasionally the pet uses stats from gear when >Summoned<, and you talk about Ifrit using str/skillspeed etc. So having a summon set and a dps set is a solution.

Anyone tried playing it that way or is the Garuda vs Ifrit all based on INT based gear when summoned?

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Originally Posted by UrbanLucrece

Hi, not played SMN to 50 yet but is planning to, got a questiong if people have tried it.

From what I've read occasionally the pet uses stats from gear when >Summoned<, and you talk about Ifrit using str/skillspeed etc. So having a summon set and a dps set is a solution.

Anyone tried playing it that way or is the Garuda vs Ifrit all based on INT based gear when summoned?

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1. You are correct but unfortunately when you use Spur or certain other buffs hit your pet it reverts to match the stats of your current gear, and you cannot change gear in combat.

2. INT is the stat that all summon damage is based on (regardless of which summon), but Garuda is unique in which he's the only one affected by spell speed and spell speed buffs. In fact, when Garuda crits and you get the 20% spell speed bonus, he benefits from that bonus as well while it's up. Ifrit does not.

So I have been using Ifrit in most cases, but was unaware of recent buffs to Garuda.

This may sound weird, but the reason I didn't like using Garuda before was because of Contagion. I felt like it threw my entire rotation off. Once all my DOTs were extended, Shadowflare was up, and Fester/Aetherflow was on cooldown, I would just end up spamming Ruin II until something else was needed. This caused me to run out of MP way too easily.

Using Ifrit and refreshing my DOTs normally seemed to work way better for my balance of damage and MP conservation.

Now that I know of the recent buffs, I feel like I should switch to Garuda again. Can someone suggest a proper rotation once all DOTs are active and extended so I'm not running out of MP, but also not just standing still?

You were spamming Ruin2 when you should never do that. There were no recent buffs to any pets, they all behave the same besides fairies.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

You were spamming Ruin2 when you should never do that. There were no recent buffs to any pets, they all behave the same besides fairies.

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That was my question. What should I be doing if not Ruin II? I'm not jut going to stop attacking until the DOTs run out.

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Originally Posted by Gamma621

That was my question. What should I be doing if not Ruin II? I'm not jut going to stop attacking until the DOTs run out.

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Ruin, instead of Ruin II. It's the same DPS at less MP cost.

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Originally Posted by Gamma621

That was my question. What should I be doing if not Ruin II? I'm not jut going to stop attacking until the DOTs run out.

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Ruin. always ruin

use FFXIVAPP to see your damage ........do not listen to ppl
everyone will say garuda <---- lol

garuda is good only in some fight cuz she is range and help in dot only
but for lot damage and total damge at the end of the fight...
garuda cant do 50% of ifrit damge
so use FFXIVAPP ...... see by your self
test all this
and about to keep your dot on mobs or boss
you have lot MP keep it up ....it is easy thing ^^

1 more time use FFXIVAPP <----- the prove is here ^^

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Originally Posted by Vamp007

use FFXIVAPP to see your damage ........do not listen to ppl
everyone will say garuda <---- lol

garuda is good only in some fight cuz she is range and help in dot only
but for lot damage and total damge at the end of the fight...
garuda cant do 50% of ifrit damge
so use FFXIVAPP ...... see by your self
test all this
and about to keep your dot on mobs or boss
you have lot MP keep it up ....it is easy thing ^^

1 more time use FFXIVAPP <----- the prove is here ^^

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FFXIVAPP track shadowflare? I don't think the prove is there

shadowflare or what ever you like from all skill and magic ^^ is not the point
damage at the end what i need <----- my damage
i need my damage to be the best in party .... not only 1 skill
total damage at the end what i am looking for ^^

I'll be honest, I don't totally see why everyone is completely against using Ifrit for certain fights. Garuda is fantastic, sure, but they both have their shining moments. What annoys me is when people do not seem to understand that Garuda only out shines Ifrit in fights that will last longer than a minutes without the mob going invulnerable (IE Garuda jumping). Fantastic if she is able to make your DoTs last another 15 seconds, does it matter though if the mob dies within the time-frame of the DoTs' original timers? No. In-fact, you lost dps if anything by having Garuda out instead of Ifrit for that particular part of the fight.

Also, don't be afraid to switch between pets during fights, keeping one or the other throughout the entire fight may not always be the best course of action. I think it's incredibly unfair to say that Ifrit has no place anywhere. He is viable, he is useful, and he is probably used the most for me aside from boss fights, and about 50% of the time during boss fights. Dat swiftcast pet switching is pretty fancy stuff if you know when to use it correctly.

All I can really say is for short fights, mobs die twice as fast for me when I send Ifrit in. Longer fights I always use Garuda. However something odd happened in Titan Hm last night-3 summoners joined and all used Ifrit. That includes me, we did not win but it wasn't for lack of DPS, I noticed Titans HP dropping faster then normal.

Thing is we tried all Garudas as is the norm but 3 Ifrits were melting her faster. Can't explain it but all know is we switched back to Ifrit the rest of night.

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Originally Posted by Pride

I'll be honest, I don't totally see why everyone is completely against using Ifrit for certain fights. Garuda is fantastic, sure, but they both have their shining moments. What annoys me is when people do not seem to understand that Garuda only out shines Ifrit in fights that will last longer than a minutes without the mob going invulnerable (IE Garuda jumping). Fantastic if she is able to make your DoTs last another 15 seconds, does it matter though if the mob dies within the time-frame of the DoTs' original timers? No. In-fact, you lost dps if anything by having Garuda out instead of Ifrit for that particular part of the fight.

Also, don't be afraid to switch between pets during fights, keeping one or the other throughout the entire fight may not always be the best course of action. I think it's incredibly unfair to say that Ifrit has no place anywhere. He is viable, he is useful, and he is probably used the most for me aside from boss fights, and about 50% of the time during boss fights. Dat swiftcast pet switching is pretty fancy stuff if you know when to use it correctly.

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Garuda.
Does.
More.
DPS.
Than.
Ifrit.

Period.

The only time to use Ifrit is if you have a MNK, and your BRD isn't using Foe Req at all(if the fight is short enough to not use 2 Contagions).

Do not switch pets unless you have a reason to, DPS-wise. If you don't, do not do it. Unless you have a MNK and a no-Foe Req BRD, there is no reason to. It costs too much MP.

Oh, and that still only applies until the second contagion. Contagion makes up for the difference(and more) in DPS versus a No FR Garuda vs DK Ifrit. Not to mention a multitude of other benefits.

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Originally Posted by Vamp007

use FFXIVAPP to see your damage ........do not listen to ppl
everyone will say garuda <---- lol

garuda is good only in some fight cuz she is range and help in dot only
but for lot damage and total damge at the end of the fight...
garuda cant do 50% of ifrit damge
so use FFXIVAPP ...... see by your self
test all this
and about to keep your dot on mobs or boss
you have lot MP keep it up ....it is easy thing ^^

1 more time use FFXIVAPP <----- the prove is here ^^

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http://i.imgur.com/KncsHRD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KncsHRD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eSN0wrF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eSN0wrF.jpg

sup?


Updated(I hate you T0rin, book won't drop):

http://i.imgur.com/c3A7rPS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/c3A7rPS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HoazZCF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HoazZCF.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pride

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Any fight longer than a minute is a boss fight. Any boss fight I'm using my swift on shadowflare. Ifrit isn't worth as much as contagion on any boss fight either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vamp007

use FFXIVAPP to see your damage ........do not listen to ppl
everyone will say garuda <---- lol

garuda is good only in some fight cuz she is range and help in dot only
but for lot damage and total damge at the end of the fight...
garuda cant do 50% of ifrit damge
so use FFXIVAPP ...... see by your self
test all this
and about to keep your dot on mobs or boss
you have lot MP keep it up ....it is easy thing ^^

1 more time use FFXIVAPP <----- the prove is here ^^

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Garuda Obey: http://i.imgur.com/f8mYFTH.png
http://i.imgur.com/f8mYFTH.png

Ifirt Obey: http://i.imgur.com/5Gpx16l.png
http://i.imgur.com/5Gpx16l.png

Ifrit Sic: http://i.imgur.com/EMwgK1W.png
http://i.imgur.com/EMwgK1W.png

Sup? "the prove is here ^^"

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Updated(I hate you T0rin, book won't drop):

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Updated(Sorry): Here is a nice anecdote that should make your day. Since I didn't need any more gear from T5, I swapped FC raid groups to another one that was still working on T5, to help them get it down. The SMN that replaced me in my T5 farm group got his book on his first Twintania kill. I also hate every SMN that has seen Allagan Pants drop. Curse my luck. :P

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Originally Posted by Icehunter

+1 ^^ Is that robomongo or sql viewer?

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Oracle SQL Developer. It is a piece of crap, but it gets the job done.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

I also hate every SMN that has seen Allagan Pants drop. Curse my luck. :P

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Ever since I started doing Coil I've NEVER seen the pants drop once either. I feel your pain. @&#! you for having the book though, 7 twin kills and still no drop :(.

P.S- Ifrit sucks

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Originally Posted by xxalucard

Ever since I started doing Coil I've NEVER seen the pants drop once either. I feel your pain. @&#! you for having the book though, 7 twin kills and still no drop :(.

P.S- Ifrit sucks

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Summoners: We enjoy great comradery amongst our brethren. Until one of us gets a drop the other has been waiting on. Then @&#1 you.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

I also hate every SMN that has seen Allagan Pants drop. Curse my luck. :P

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Same here, some groups rub it in my face when it drops because that is all I need!

Surprisingly the book was the first allagan piece I got not counting ring and earring.

10 min parses.

http://i.imgur.com/EeWiP6R.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wylrLR9.jpg

:|

???

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Originally Posted by Seobit

10 min parses.

http://i.imgur.com/EeWiP6R.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wylrLR9.jpg

:|

???

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Garuda on Sic?