Legacy players punished by FC Housing prices

Yes, there are asshat legacy players out there. However, there are also other varieties as well.

I'm leading a semi-hardcore raiding FC of about 40 members, and we've been excited for months about the incoming housing addition to the game. But none of us expected these prices at all. A core community of players around this number is a good thing and we would like to keep it around this number, however SE has assumed the net worth of each of my FC members is 7.8 million gil and each of those players is willing to give it all up for land.

Yea, a few of our 1.0 players have 10-15 million, but over half of our playerbase are new to the game and a lot of membership is feeling punished for simply playing on a legacy server with friends and family to enjoy the wonders of ARR. We were expecting a 10-20 million entry-point just for the land, but 312m is f---ing stupid.

keep in mind that price is for the largest house on the "best" plot of land. There are a ton of cheaper options available

As far as anyone knows the premium land is just a location with a prettier view and the lowest end large plot is exactly the same in function

Luckily for you the entry level plot is 20m on Excalibur! Grats, all your dreams have come true.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

keep in mind that price is for the largest house on the "best" plot of land. There are a ton of cheaper options available

As far as anyone knows the premium land is just a location with a prettier view and the lowest end large plot is exactly the same in function

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The difference in price is still apparent for Legacy however. The newest servers plot price increases by 5 million per 'rank' of land for the largest. So 80 million for the cheapest and 100 million for the best spot. 20 mil difference.

For Legacy the increases are 16 something million. The difference between a low class to a top class plot is 62 million. Nearly the amount for a 'cheap' piece of land on a new server.

You have a lower subscription fee. Is that not enough?

To me, the widest misconception out there, by players and developers alike, is that people on legacy servers run around farting golden clouds of gil. There is more gil on legacy servers, yes. Most of it is concentrated in the hands of a very few super rich and RMT bank accounts. The rest of it? That's gill we EARNED. By PAYING for a subscription in 1.0, and EARNING that gil with our time and effort. It STILL has been hacked to 10 percent of what it was, and it's STILL being deemed 'too much' by the powers that be?

The fact that they are using CONTENT in the game as a means of wealth equalization is unbelievable to me. They have no right! We earned that gil in the first place! Why do they think they are entitled to charge us more, for the same exact content, just because we HAVE more?

And finally, as I said above, all of that is speaking generally. Concretely, so many legacy players have no more and no less gil than on non-legacy servers; especially those who chose to create new characters on legacy servers to play with friends. They are now being punished unfairly simply by association.

I'm getting tired of this trend that the players are having to take it on the chin for this game's problems. Server latency? Fix it, not zoom out. You've got RMT? I'm so sorry for you, do something to stop it. There are rich players in game? Who cares? It's not the developer's jobs to be great socialist equalizers, its their job to deliver content to their players.

Start doing it.

should of made everything the same price all content should be the same no matter which server has more loot, so now depending on server there going to make some content harder to even obtain. nice SE.

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Originally Posted by Fatestorm

To me, the widest misconception out there, by players and developers alike, is that people on legacy servers run around farting golden clouds of gil. There is more gil on legacy servers, yes. Most of it is concentrated in the hands of a very few super rich and RMT bank accounts. The rest of it? That's gill we EARNED. By PAYING for a subscription in 1.0, and EARNING that gil with our time and effort. It STILL has been hacked to 10 percent of what it was, and it's STILL being deemed 'too much' by the powers that be?

The fact that they are using CONTENT in the game as a means of wealth equalization is unbelievable to me. They have no right! We earned that gil in the first place! Why do they think they are entitled to charge us more, for the same exact content, just because we HAVE more?

And finally, as I said above, all of that is speaking generally. Concretely, so many legacy players have no more and no less gil than on non-legacy servers; especially those who chose to create new characters on legacy servers to play with friends. They are now being punished unfairly simply by association.

I'm getting tired of this trend that the players are having to take it on the chin for this game's problems. Server latency? Fix it, not zoom out. You've got RMT? I'm so sorry for you, do something to stop it. There are rich players in game? Who cares? It's not the developer's jobs to be great socialist equalizers, its their job to deliver content to their players.

Start doing it.

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Housing is supposed to be a prestige thing and pricing was just calculated based on total server wealth.
Small guilds that aren't bloated with gil aren't supposed to be able to afford the gigantic mansion on a scenic cliff

that's why there are so many lower end houses and the entry level housing is affordable on any server including legacy.
What would be the point of even having different sizes and locations if anyone could get the best of the best with minimal effort?

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Originally Posted by Nihility

that's why there are so many lower end houses and the entry level housing is affordable on any server including legacy.

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O.O

40 million is affordable??

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

O.O

40 million is affordable??

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Maybe for the FCs with members and gil pouring from their orifices.....

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Maybe for the FCs with members and gil pouring from their orifices.....

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Seriously ^^

I'm rapidly losing all patience with people who don't see a problem with housing prices just because they are on a cheaper server.

Can justify paying that kind of money for this. It cost 2 billion dollars to build the Palace of Versailles which is a far cry from some dinky little fc house. Sorry, I like an equivalent exchange on currency for goods and services. 312 mil is 3.12 billion in 1.0. They took enough gil from us already.

http://i.imgur.com/4JygCII.jpg

I could understand the prices if there were actual physical pieces of land they were selling. The prices are simply cruel. 20 million gil for a dilapidated shack on Skid Row puts it hopelessly out of reach. And that's just for the land, can't forget all the other price barriers they put in the way. I simply don't understand why they would put such a barrier in the way of the fun.

Post 9 above by Nihility is an excellent example of missing the point of why many people are upset. I am going to demonstrate how:

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Originally Posted by Nihility

Housing is supposed to be a prestige thing and pricing was just calculated based on total server wealth.

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First, you have no idea that housing was supposed to be a prestige thing. That's what you've assumed. Sed contra, most of us have assumed that it would be relatively accessible, due to the "4-5 players pooling their gil after leveling a single job to 50" quote that has been posted on every one of these threads. Add to this the way they've been selling it so hard in every trailer and live letter since. The implication for most of us was that housing was supposed to be accessible content that everyone could participate in relatively quickly.

Second, its precisely the fact that prices were calculated based on total server wealth that is the problem. It's disconnected from the average wealth of an average player.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

Small guilds that aren't bloated with gil aren't supposed to be able to afford the gigantic mansion on a scenic cliff

that's why there are so many lower end houses and the entry level housing is affordable on any server including legacy.

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First, nobody said that small guilds are entitled to mansions. Don't attack arguments nobody is making. Secondly, the entry level housing is not affordable on many servers. Especially for smaller role playing free companies, who in many ways coveted this content more than anyone.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

What would be the point of even having different sizes and locations if anyone could get the best of the best with minimal effort?

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Fair enough. But with respect to legacy servers, the issue is that the devs are actively working to overcome an advantage (more total gil on legacy worlds) that those legacy players legitimately acquired, by playing longer. Which seems unfair. You don't have to go all the way to "legacy servers deserve mansions on day 1" to say "it seems unfair that legacy players and non-legacy players on legacy worlds are being penalized for................... what? For playing the game longer.

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Originally Posted by Fatestorm

To me, the widest misconception out there, by players and developers alike, is that people on legacy servers run around farting golden clouds of gil. There is more gil on legacy servers, yes. Most of it is concentrated in the hands of a very few super rich and RMT bank accounts. The rest of it? That's gill we EARNED. By PAYING for a subscription in 1.0, and EARNING that gil with our time and effort. It STILL has been hacked to 10 percent of what it was, and it's STILL being deemed 'too much' by the powers that be?

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Thanks for your well thought response. The average pocket of our FC members is 200-400k, and we've saved up a few million as a community. This was crappy shocking news.

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Originally Posted by Scarletyoshi

I could understand the prices if there were actual physical pieces of land they were selling. The prices are simply cruel. 20 million gil for a dilapidated shack on Skid Row puts it hopelessly out of reach. And that's just for the land, can't forget all the other price barriers they put in the way. I simply don't understand why they would put such a barrier in the way of the fun.

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This is Yoshi we are talking about...it wouldn't be "fun" unless a 40ft tall wall stood in your way and the only means of ascending it was your toothbrush from middle school....

And yes, part of the "fun" is to go and find your long lost tooth brush from middle school, GOOD TIMES!!!

Time to transfer to a non-legacy server.

My FC is about 90% new players on a legacy server with over 100 members. I've been doing dontations and money drives since launch, and all total we've had so many members dontate 200k which is usually over half of the money people have.

We currently sit at 3 million. I've been working really hard to save up and I'm at 1.25 million, I'm putting 1 million in myself, so currently we sit at 4million for a FC of 100 members, and this is something we started to save for right after launch.


It's just really out of perspective these prices they've made. Not realistic for most groups at all.

It's a situation where the only people who can afford the housing are the very reason noone else on their servers can afford the housing... aka bullshit

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Originally Posted by Zourin

Time to transfer to a non-legacy server.

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Except for the fact that they won't let anyone transfer off a Legacy server, you can transfer between Legacy servers but not off.

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Originally Posted by jetsette1

If I give you the 5 bucks extra for your sub fee, will you give me the 80mil gil extra for my FC house? Is THAT enough? We're saying the exchange is not equivalent.

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80 million? more like 562.5 million

People on low populations can populate a free company and 50 people would only need to contribute 0.5 - 1 mil (feasible just with progression) and buy a large house. And since they are on a lower population server they can also more easily obtain the house in the lower spectrum of the 90 day depreciation.

50 people on Legacy would need at minimum 5 - 10 million gil each.

The Big Problem SE failed to understand is that there is a big difference between obtaining that 1st million (which is barely more than progression) and accounts retaining an additional 9 million accrued purely through profitable non-progression related venues on the side. Just because the server has more gil doesn't mean the accounts perpetually hold that gil. Alot of the 'abundance' of gil on a Legacy server is like America where 0.1% of the population controls 99% of the wealth, however for the rest of the server their gil is the commodity traded in the markets as intended; tossed back and forth for valued purchases.

The average player on a Legacy server doesn't have this amazingly high amount of wealth. New players on Legacy server even more so.

SE knows the markets aren't healthy on Legacy servers... You can't sell anything for any decent amount to accumulate the amount of gil requested. Instead of being a lazy ass looking only at the total accumulated gil and then whatever bs algorithm they used. Actually pay attention to the fact that YOU the DEVELOPERS have done nothing to generate an economy even on Legacy servers. I would like ONE Dev to try to show how a Legacy player is supposed to accumulate the kind of gil they expect to contribute to Housing using the in-game content and Market! Even though people on lower population servers would only need to progress through the storyline and sell a handful of materia to afford a Large house.

Yea enough people could chip in for a small house but guess what the only House that has any utility other than vanity is the Large house so if you buy that small house all u did was rollback your accumulated gil making it even more impossible to ever utilize that basement.

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Originally Posted by Yolteotl

80 million? more like 562.5 million

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I wasn't using the worst case scenario server/plots. :'( But yeah that as well. The accumulation just steamrolls outrageously.

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Originally Posted by jetsette1

If I give you the 5 bucks extra for your sub fee, will you give me the 80mil gil extra for my FC house? Is THAT enough? We're saying the exchange is not equivalent.

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Don't get me wrong, the system is silly (IMO they should be auctioned off starting at 1 gil), I'm just saying that it's bad for everyone, not just Legacy. But I think that players (Legacy and standard) should just moved on, it's not going to change at this point so giving Square Enix your precious tears isn't going to help.

In some way its not quite fair for legacy players because of a few people that horded gil to gil cap in 1.0 not everyone did that.

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Originally Posted by Soulscare

Don't get me wrong, the system is silly (IMO they should be auctioned off starting at 1 gil), I'm just saying that it's bad for everyone, not just Legacy. But I think that players (Legacy and standard) should just moved on, it's not going to change at this point so giving Square Enix your precious tears isn't going to help.

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Yes, it's high for everyone. That's definitely agreed. But squeaky wheels get the grease. =)

This is coming from a player from non-legacy.

In order to afford a small home in my server, I have to sell atleast 30 titan runs at a price of 300K each. To find 30 people that's actually willing to pay for titan runs instead of upgrading their gear/investing on home is extremely difficult (Not including many free carries/FC fighting over prices). Until this day, I have yet to find anyone paying for a single titan run in the past week.

Now let's move away from selling titan runs, let's say I want to sell crafted items...
Philosophy tome items selling for 15K each, crafted pieces sell for at most 200K usually. Sure that's 65K profit if it were to sell of course. Looking at the AH history, only one or two pieces actually sell per week. (I'm not even going to bother talking about undercutting)

Why is this happening? Simple, people who already wanted upgrades has done it already. People who made most of the profits were the ones who maxed ALL their crafting in the first week or two after release. The moment more crafters starting to boom, the prices were crashing, but the few who maxed their crafting has made massive profit already.

Now is this my fault? Perhaps, you can blame me for enjoying story quests/dungeons over crafting and that lead to myself and my FC unable to afford a small home.

People are telling me they're going to increase gil rewards in leves, but as we all know there's a limit of 6 per day. And I highly doubt the gil reward will suddenly go from 1K to 10K.

There's also people who tells me, oh hey you can make and sell furniture! Oh guess what? The people who can afford the medium/large home can probably make it themselves no problem!

So what am I resort to? Trying to kill dungeon mobs for 50 gil each, sell tome items that will probably turn into 5K ea. Then beg for some rich guy to buy my treasure map for high price.

Selling pvp gear? Yeah good luck with that competition with lots of people being maxed craft.

I'm sure new players who have just joined legacy worlds to play with their friends feel the same. Except the price is a lot more ridiculous.

Sorry for my rant, and excuse my broken English.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Maybe for the FCs with members and gil pouring from their orifices.....

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FC who can buy a small land for 40m are too big for this small land.

i'll probably go to the housing area for sight seeing :D
what a nice empty house it is :D

maybe i'll go fishing

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Originally Posted by Impurrrsive

i'll probably go to the housing area for sight seeing :D
what a nice empty house it is :D

maybe i'll go fishing

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The Empty Housing Areas would probably be a good place to craft or queue without /sh spams

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Originally Posted by Fatestorm

To me, the widest misconception out there, by players and developers alike, is that people on legacy servers run around farting golden clouds of gil. There is more gil on legacy servers, yes. Most of it is concentrated in the hands of a very few super rich and RMT bank accounts. The rest of it? That's gill we EARNED. By PAYING for a subscription in 1.0, and EARNING that gil with our time and effort. It STILL has been hacked to 10 percent of what it was, and it's STILL being deemed 'too much' by the powers that be?

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Not to mention there are tons of us (myself included) who are on a legacy server but are not legacy players.

I like ,spent all my 1.0 gil on fireworks and blowing up materia.

Now I have none for a house

Anybody wanna buy some Lominsan Sparklers off me?

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Originally Posted by MagicofGaia

Yes, there are asshat legacy players out there. However, there are also other varieties as well.

I'm leading a semi-hardcore raiding FC of about 40 members, and we've been excited for months about the incoming housing addition to the game. But none of us expected these prices at all. A core community of players around this number is a good thing and we would like to keep it around this number, however SE has assumed the net worth of each of my FC members is 7.8 million gil and each of those players is willing to give it all up for land.

Yea, a few of our 1.0 players have 10-15 million, but over half of our playerbase are new to the game and a lot of membership is feeling punished for simply playing on a legacy server with friends and family to enjoy the wonders of ARR. We were expecting a 10-20 million entry-point just for the land, but 312m is f---ing stupid.

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You know who gets punished even more? New players who joined legacy servers.

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Originally Posted by Felis

FC who can buy a small land for 40m are too big for this small land.

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A couple people have retorted with: You can afford the small house. That is barely a studio apartment. 30-40 people would be miserable in a small home. The pricing on housing is based on an economy where it's incredibly tough to make gil at a decent rate. Due to SE's fuck up with the HQ crafting leves the over-abundance of 50 crafters has made the market a joke, and the average player is now being reprimanded due to the hoarders wallets.

I've seen groups the last 2 weeks selling turn 5 wins for 35 million, but we are not ready to give up those weapons yet as we just started acquiring them ourselves 3 weeks ago.

Incoming in patch 2.2:

Dungeon loot drop rate will now vary depending on how many drops are in your server.

*Coil and Crystal Tower lock out timer has been increased to two weeks for legacy servers, because, you know, LEGACY! :rolleyes: