[Discussion] The mechanics behind lockouts

This thread will be only for discussion. Meaning opinions will be considered least informational, speculations off of known facts and facts themselves will be considered much more informational. Therefore, please leave your opinions about how you feel on lockouts, off this post. We will only discuss the structural significance of lockoutshere. This way community members can better understand why MMOs do such things.

Lockouts:

Lockouts were seen fairly early in the MMO world but not at the beginning of the MMO industry. Today there are still MMOs that do no use lockout systems and some that use both lockout and none lockout. FF14 ARR uses non-lockout systems in lower-end/pre-endgame dungeons.

Pros [Non-Lockouts]:

-You can easily obtain the gear you need quickly to progress your story forward/endgame.

-You can do it at your set time and pace without having to worry of specific time limits and constraints. For example, having to come back weekly versus play this week, be free next 2 weeks and come back 4 weeks later, which can be nice.

Non-lockout systems were fairly popular due to the fact they allowed easy access to the dungeons/content. Alot of the complaints in these threads about lockouts are pretty much about this easiness in accessibility being denied.

In smaller MMOs, such systems seem to work fairly well. This is due to the fact that everyone knew everyone in the MMO world. Getting shunned for being a terrible player or a bad person meant a poor game experience, so smaller MMOs, non-lockout systems couldn't be abused too badly.

In larger MMOs, we have seen that they do not appear to be that way. The true giants in MMOs face terrible problems with non-lockout systems.

Cons [non-lockout]

-People can leave whenever they please because there is nothing to deter them from leaving. A 15 min lockout versus a 1 week lockout is insignificant. Also if you piss off these 7 people today, you can easily find another 7 people tomorrow and so forth for countless days because of the sheer size of the MMO.

-Its been common thru out MMOs that with non-lockout systems, players have no incentive to stay after bosses they want, are downed. People will simply just drop group and reque once again.

-People can be rude. Although we can report them for rudeness and harassment, non-lockout systems promotes players like these to do as they please. We already see duty finder complaints filling up the dungeons threads. Bad, disrespectful players, makes MMO gaming experiences terrible.

-It promotes instability in FCs. 1 player may be lucky and obtain all his/her loot in 10 hours. If the player plays the game with good morals, he or she may return the help by staying till everyone is geared. The smaller the group, the higher the probability of this occuring. The larger the group the lower the chance of it occuring. However, we know that people raid with different intentions. Some for gear, some for cosmetics and some for progression. Once their goals are obtained, whether or not they stay is actually truly up to them. We know players like these exist because this is why the lockout systems were developed.

When we draw it all out, the lockout systems help to deter such things from happening. These things are important because they are what makes MMOs what they are. People coming together to push progression content. MMOs are all about interactions with the world and working together.

Without lockout systems there is nothing to keep bad players from destroying groups, more or less, actually promote such behaviour because logically it is the fastest way to achieve 1 of the 3 goals mentioned earlier. However, it promotes terrible terrible gameplay experience. To solve these issues in the last decade, lockout systems were developed and they were successful.

We pay a small price of inaccessibility but at the same time, it increases your chances that people will stay in FC's or parties longer even if their goals are different. We have a tool to deter/smack bad players. We remove lockouts for accessibility but we face terrible consequences. Many of which have destroyed MMOs. Its not simply a milking mechanism, its a requirement to keep large MMOs and MMOs communities together. Cause if we don't have the community, we may as well all play Single Player RPGs, where the world interacts with us because we aren't able to interact with the unstable MMO worlds.

It can be simplified with, you get better quality of your experiences versus you get a high quantity of lower experiences.

Once again though, some people prefer the high quantity versus the high quality.

I could go even further in depth but this is just the general stuff. I'd also like to play the game today lol.

Please if you have any questions, please ask. Designing an MMO is simply more then putting 10,000 ideas together thinking they are compatible and problem free.

Wait, are you saying that all your experience to date with non-locked out content has been destroyed by the bad players?

SE is using lockouts purely to artificially extend the life of their game.

With the armory system being the base of this game, the currently lockout design is nothing more than torture on the player base.

You even have people creating new characters, leveling them to 50, clearing the story, and fully regearing all to bypass the myth cap and lockouts. By dedicating a character to a singular class you assure that your weekly coil lockout and myths can be spent just on that class and are no longer limited by the current system for multi class use.

That is how bored people with even a slight abundance of time are.

IT IS MY PERSONAL believe that the current coil lock needs to be doubled(aka 2 coil lockouts on 2 differing jobs/roles), and that myth caps need to be slightly lower and per individual jobs and must be earned while on that job.

And to tilt the discussion of coil in an even worse direction, with the randomization on drops instead of a token system for coil, you can clear for WEEKs and WEEKs and never get drops vs people who have cleared 1-4 for 3 weeks and received every drop for that class.

I personally have cleared coil 1-4 for 6-7 weeks and have only received 4 drops on my main class and have no one to roll against.....

I also feel TC is rather unintelligent and sees no other option but STRONG harsh lockouts or infinite no lockouts. The issue is never as simple as left or right there is always something in between.

Every single con you listed for a non lockout system is something i've seen with this lockout system in place.

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Originally Posted by ChriskoOnAnotherLevel

IT IS MY PERSONAL believe that the current coil lock needs to be doubled(aka 2 coil lockouts on 2 differing jobs/roles), and that myth caps need to be slightly lower and per individual jobs and must be earned while on that job.

I personally have cleared coil 1-4 for 6-7 weeks and have only received 4 drops on my main class and have no one to roll against.....

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Technically you can't bypass the myth cap unless gear currently is not soul-bound/account locked.

Also if you allow seperate locks for your alts, you would need to lock gear just to that class as well, class specific pickup only. This is to prevent what you just claimed from happening. Picking up gear on your alt to gear your main. Your personal belief needs to be thoroughly looked at. Their are a lot of issues that arise with what you want. Also if you make loot class specific, alt gear is no longer able to be dished out. We run in to a conflict in the game design.

Your beliefs have too many logical counter arguments against it. This is why I want this thread to be discussed logically. Not arguing against the logics behind a mechanic with your personal beliefs.

If you want something, argue against the lockout with a new style of mechanic that can solve these issues and issues that arise with your mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Every single con you listed for a non lockout system is something i've seen with this lockout system in place.

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Imagine if we removed it.

Its like saying we have crime with police around. Atleast crime is kept down to a degree.

Imagine if we had no police at all.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Imagine if we removed it.

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I think the only assumption we can make is that there needs to be a form of lockouts, but not in such an extreme form we have now. There's currently no drive to log in for some outside of those once a week instances. Honestly, also there isn't a need for more than 8 people in a FC.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I think the only assumption we can make is that there needs to be a form of lockouts, but not in such an extreme form we have now. There's currently no drive to log in for some outside of those once a week instances. Honestly, also there isn't a need for more than 8 people in a FC.

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That's if those 8 people are a static. It's hard to form a static, They all need to be on at the same time for X amount of hours they agreed on, Some of the 8 may have to do something that day leaving the other 5-6 people left with doing stuff on their own. etc etc.

A lot needs to happen for a static to work.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I think the only assumption we can make is that there needs to be a form of lockouts, but not in such an extreme form we have now. There's currently no drive to log in for some outside of those once a week instances. Honestly, also there isn't a need for more than 8 people in a FC.

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Reducing the the lockout time frame will increase the requirement of people having to play on days they aren't available. Because if we put lockouts in intervals under 7 days, that means the reset timer will technically be different every week, meaning some people can not make that time for you and your fc setting you back.

What you mean is that there isn't a need for more then 8 people in raid. You don't need a FC to raid. FC have more purposes then to just raid.

So far, I have enjoyed answering all your questions and concerns. Please do not feel like I am belittling you or anyone else. If your arguments are sound and logical I am more then willing to agree with you or anyone else.

I don't think the complaints about lockouts are due to players "not having anything to do". If this were the case, then other non-endgame content would satisfy these players, which it doesn't. In fact CT is a loot lockout, not a character lockout, but the complaints still persist. This tells me that the majority of lockout complaints are not about a lack of content (which there is), but instead about the rate of obtaining endgame gear specifically (coil gear currently). It would be nice if any lockout arguments would just focus on that.

Since this game have armory system and there no point to level another character. The lockout applies to character instead of classes is simply making the armory system useless. I can take lock out on per class or job. But not this. This just making me less likely to enjoy the armory system.
I know many ppl just log to the game one day and take the rest 6 days off. Cuz that all we can do with a character lock out system. Although I'm still enjoy the game, who knows.

People can leave whenever they want - They can do that now as well, as the lock out doesn't happen until you kill the boss or get your drop (In case off CT). Point is invalid.

People will leave after boss is downed - Happening anyway. Depending on how CT is made the incentive will be way bigger even, because you know 100% sure you won't get anything else out of the raid. Point is invalid.

People can be rude - Lolwut? Wut lol? This is just nonsense. Point is invalid.

It promotes instability in FCs - And this system doesn't do that? What nonsense. If a player is in a static for Coil he can't help his FC at all. But hey, that's not a source for drama? Same goes for CT. Why bother rerunning it after you got your weekly drop? Point is invalid.

Seriously, all your supposed cons are pretty much nonsense that will happen in any system because they're based on "people are jerks". Well they always are, no matter what system you put in place. People being jerks is simply people being human.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

People can leave whenever they want - They can do that now as well, as the lock out doesn't happen until you kill the boss or get your drop (In case off CT). Point is invalid.

People will leave after boss is downed - Happening anyway. Depending on how CT is made the incentive will be way bigger even, because you know 100% sure you won't get anything else out of the raid. Point is invalid.

People can be rude - Lolwut? Wut lol? This is just nonsense. Point is invalid.

It promotes instability in FCs - And this system doesn't do that? What nonsense. If a player is in a static for Coil he can't help his FC at all. But hey, that's not a source for drama? Same goes for CT. Why bother rerunning it after you got your weekly drop? Point is invalid.

Seriously, all your supposed cons are pretty much nonsense that will happen in any system because they're based on "people are jerks". Well they always are, no matter what system you put in place. People being jerks is simply people being human.

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No people can not do it now. They leave now and they still face a 1 week lockout.

Yesh people are leaving after bosses are down and if we remove lockouts they will simply be abusing it even further because nothing will deter them from not doing it.

People can be rude, yesh, look at yourself for example. Say what you want, do what you want. You feel like you can do anything because nothing is going to happen to you. When you know you can get punished or penalized for doing things you aren't suppose to, people are less motivated to do so. Is it 100% system, no but its better then your current logic which is no system at all and let people run rampant.

And your implying that you have found a better way to promote stability? I would like to know what system your comparing it to that makes you think this way. Logically you can't know if something is better then something unless you can compare it to something else. So what system are you referring to and comparing to that makes this one so instable versus yours?

We implement things like these to reduce the people who want to be jerks. Without things to deter people from doing things they want, they do it. We can never get rid of all of em, but we sure can swat quite a few of em.

Like I replied earlier to another poster who had the same thoughts as you.

Even with cops we have crime.

You feel with out cops its just the same.

In truth, thats not true.

Acting like these systems do nothing for us is just plain ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Hakoosum

Since this game have armory system and there no point to level another character. The lockout applies to character instead of classes is simply making the armory system useless. I can take lock out on per class or job. But not this.

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I've pointed this out to a poster before. Locking it to each class opens opportunities for it to be exploited. Each class now has the opportunity to get gear for your main as well.

To counter this exploit we would have to make loot, lootable only by your class. This now makes it no longer possible to pick up alt gear at all for any of your classes.

We run into a error in the design of the game. Once again, people are wanting things without looking at the design of the game. You can't just glue things together and make a MMO. If you want lockouts per class, you need to put out your ideas on how to implement it to work. Everyone just wants it, no one wants to work for it.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

I've pointed this out to a poster before. Locking it to each class opens opportunities for it to be exploited. Each class now has the opportunity to get gear for your main as well.

To counter this exploit we would have to make loot, lootable only by your class. This now makes it no longer possible to pick up alt gear at all for any of your classes.

We run into a error in the design of the game. Once again, people are wanting things without looking at the design of the game. You can't just glue things together and make a MMO. If you want lockouts per class, you need to put out your ideas on how to implement it to work. Everyone just wants it, no one wants to work for it.

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This is well said. Lockouts as they are designed now is what SE feels will be best for the game overall, and the community.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

No people can not do it now. They leave now and they still face a 1 week lockout.

Yesh people are leaving after bosses are down and if we remove lockouts they will simply be abusing it even further because nothing will deter them from not doing it.

People can be rude, yesh, look at yourself for example. Say what you want, do what you want. You feel like you can do anything because nothing is going to happen to you. When you know you can get punished or penalized for doing things you aren't suppose to, people are less motivated to do so. Is it 100% system, no but its better then your current logic which is no system at all and let people run rampant.

And your implying that you have found a better way to promote stability? I would like to know what system your comparing it to that makes you think this way. Logically you can't know if something is better then something unless you can compare it to something else. So what system are you referring to and comparing to that makes this one so instable versus yours?

We implement things like these to reduce the people who want to be jerks. Without things to deter people from doing things they want, they do it. We can never get rid of all of em, but we sure can swat quite a few of em.

Like I replied earlier to another poster who had the same thoughts as you.

Even with cops we have crime.

You feel with out cops its just the same.

In truth, thats not true.

Acting like these systems do nothing for us is just plain ignorance.

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Do you even Coil? How is there a one week lock out if I leave? Of course I've been locked out of the content I've finished, but not the content I'm leaving from right now. Do you even know HOW these lockouts work? Because the more you post the more it seems you don't actually know what you're on about.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

In truth, thats not true.

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That's deep.

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Originally Posted by KaiserFire

I don't think the complaints about lockouts are due to players "not having anything to do". If this were the case, then other non-endgame content would satisfy these players, which it doesn't. In fact CT is a loot lockout, not a character lockout, but the complaints still persist. This tells me that the majority of lockout complaints are not about a lack of content (which there is), but instead about the rate of obtaining endgame gear specifically (coil gear currently). It would be nice if any lockout arguments would just focus on that.

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The restriction on loot is not too clear to me atm. I'm not sure as for why they placed the loot restriction to 1.

However, I can share what I have speculated on this topic to you and maybe you and community members can fill it in.

Many people claim that the loot restriction is to extend the duration of the game but many feel its too much. It contradicts itself when your trying to get people to play your game and make money but you place such a harsh loot restriction making some not want to play, how many players feel like this we don't know. However, we know that not everyone gets loot each week in endgame content, so a 1 loot restriction is, when looked at it logically, is not too harsh. The issue arises when you get 2-3 of a classes loot drop which does indeed sometimes happen. In groups with multiples of one class its not a big issue but with groups with just one of each class its an issue. Possibly, gear you you could use is now aliquoted against your groups progression rate.

However, when speculated into future 24 man content, 1 loot restrictions, do not appear to be too bad at all. With more then likely multiples of each class you now have a game feature which guarantees you loot if your FC or PUG isn't really in your favor. For example you have 4 BRDS, you won't have all of one nights loot being aliquoted to the favored bard. Instead its aliquoted out to the rest.

At the same time I don't believe we have master loot in this game, so it prevents one person from taking all the loot by getting a LUCKY ROLL DAY. Also you can't have someone take 2-3 pieces and leave your party as well. At most they should only get 1. The important thing though is we should deter people from leaving period, one of the things that lockouts try to deter.

Also the CT content is to push casuals thru content faster so that the community should be ready by 2.2 for new stuff but the restriction seems to counter that idea.

I have yet to figure out what the whole idea behind the loot restriction is but I know its being placed for possibly something in the future. I've seen it done many times before where partial changes are put into place but won't be apparent to as to why till later on in the game, kind of like, how I was speculating it with 24 man raids earlier.

I will need to look more into the issue but I can't say if this is a good or bad feature for the community but we can see both good and bad things with the feature atm. What we want though, is more good then bad.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Many people claim that the loot restriction is to extend the duration of the game but many feel its too much. It contradicts itself when your trying to get people to play your game and make money but you place such a harsh loot restriction making some not want to play, how many players feel like this we don't know. However, we know that not everyone gets loot each week in endgame content, so a 1 loot restriction is, when looked at it logically, is not too harsh. The issue arises when you get 2-3 of a classes loot drop which does indeed sometimes happen. In groups with multiples of one class its not a big issue but with groups with just one of each class its an issue. Possibly, gear you you could use is now aliquoted

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This would be valid if people were actually going to quit over a new content patch. Overall, a loot restriction is going to have a minimal affect on game population.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Do you even Coil? How is there a one week lock out if I leave? Of course I've been locked out of the content I've finished, but not the content I'm leaving from right now. Do you even know HOW these lockouts work? Because the more you post the more it seems you don't actually know what you're on about.

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The content locks you to that specific instance, most of them these days do it after a boss kill, and allows you to pick up where you left for the week. However, if we remove lockouts, we promote people to leave and just start over, farming bosses they only want. We totally deter the idea of having any static parties. People will do whats fastest to get gear and that is, going into content, killing the bosses you need, leaving and resetting.

What that means is, bosses that are of interest to you are not necessarily of interest to others. Therefore you can farm that boss to your hearts content but at the same time, your party may not feel the same. This results in you or people who feel like you to leave. For example I only need loot off the first two bosses, so I can just continuously farm them but my FC needs the last 3 bosses. Instead of wasting countless hours with them I can just pug my own for the first two bosses because their is no need for a FC that does not have similar interests as I do. I just chunked my free company and every single pug I will join. However, this now applies to every single individual. Is the FC in my Interest? Will I benefit any further with them?

With loot restrictions and a 1 week lockout. Once you go in, you have to be dedicated to those players. We deter this idea of leaving after the bosses you want with lockouts. Its not 100% efficient but its better then nothing.

Are you sure you know what your arguing about?

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Originally Posted by Wyyote

Overall, a loot restriction is going to have a minimal affect on game population.

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Yes, based off the current drops, I feel that the restriction isn't too extreme. Its just in those special circumstances that it could be a frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Snip

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To be honest it seems that you're against liberty. If people want to leave, let them. Without character lockouts, a lot of options for replacement would be avaliable.

And you get locked out as soon as you enter a turn. So, to give you an example, I can't even try doing T4 because stepping a foot on it means I can't enter T2 anymore. Doesn't matter if I beat it or not.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Yes, based off the current drops, I feel that the restriction isn't too extreme. Its just in those special circumstances that it could be a frustrating.

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That's fair. I agree it's not a big deal.

My Idea: (This is solely for CT and any other new dungeon raids with the same system that might be added later.)

The first thing that comes to mind when reading the problems with the current loot-lockout after reading the cons is this:
After the loot drops for each boss (solely in the CT instance) the interface confirms that a particular person wins the lot.
However, all loot received for the entire dungeon will not appear in each specific players inventory until the final boss has been completed and the player leaves the instance.
Now, this has it's own set of pro's and con's.
Pro's:
-More players are more likely to remain in the instance and see it through to completion. (You feel more compelled to stay so that others, as well as yourself, get to receive loot at the end, creating a better sense of community.)
-A majority of the pre-made groups are going to either be same-server, same-linkshell, or same-free company.
-For the aforementioned Linkshell and FC parties (and perhaps even pre-built server parties,) this helps build a sense of "we need to finish this dungeon so player-x will receive his drop." So less people will actually drop from the party and leave the dungeon.
-Also, each boss drops a single chest on a per-party basis. Therefore, there will be no "loot jealousy" over a drop that goes to a different 8-man party. Actually, unless someone actually says something, the 16 other people outside of your group will not see what is dropped from your chest.
Con's:
-I can still see people who join through the duty finder, getting into a party with someone of the same class, lotting against said person, losing, and then leaving the dungeon just to grief the person who got the drop.
-However, I feel that should the party still succeed in completing raid after this occurs, it will not be a problem. 1 person missing out of 24 is not much.
-People randomly disconnecting or getting 90k error could prevent a group from finishing the content. However, as of patch 2.1, there will also be a afk-kick timer, d/c timer, and vote-to-kick put into place so this really shouldn't be a problem and I guarantee that plenty of people will be queuing up for "Party in Progress" for the myth bonus alone so replacing people won't be too hard either.
-The only other downside I can think of right now is people not being able to use the new drop they got while still in the dungeon. However, this is just part of the system and will be something to look forward to having once you have successfully completed the raid as a team.

If you think about it, in any regular RPG, you can go into a high-level dungeon and get all kinds of drops. However, if you don't actually clear the dungeon or find a save point before you die (which, as more tier's of content are added to this area, every individual "tier" where you leave and re-enter could be considered as a "Save Point,") you don't get to keep whatever you found on the way. The more I think about this, the more I like it.

well it seems that u guys are not familiar with loot drop systems. okay. so basically if we dont have lockouts we will have RNG % drop rates. right now there are CONFIRMED loot drops from every dungeon. The only ones having lockouts currently are the higher tiered instances. now, let's talk RNG % drop rates. let's say we have 10% loot drop chance from an instance boss, thats a 10/100 chance something will drop. and lets just say that in that instance, weapons will drop for all classes. that's a 10/100 chance to get a drop from the boss and a 1/9 chance it will drop your specific item on top of that. i dont see how this will be more fun.


so now currently we have myth gear, and we have a chance to get allagan drops every week and on top of that, CONFIRMED loot from CT before locking you out. i think those numbers are much better than the the % drop system. this system is much much more forgiving than having RNG % drops. i swear with no lockouts with the current drop system we have in the game right now, i would probably get every class of mine geared in ilevel 90 in a month. or probably even less.

I Think this is has kind of turned off topic in a sense. This discussion has more turned into morals of lockouts.

In truth the sole reason for Lockouts is not to prevent bad behavior but to extent said content. If we could go in willy nilly all day every day we could literally burn through the endgame content within a week and be fully geared.

That creates a problem for the Devs as they look at it with wide eyes thinking they just burned through 3 months worth of content in a week and its still more than 2 months til the next set of content gets put out.

This is nothing new to MMOs but it is to the FF series... mostly. FFXI had lockouts it was only a bit of the endgame content that was affected by it. But those were short times only a couple of days

Dynamis the biggest example, Einherjar, Nyzul was another as it could only be entered as many times as you had allowances which replenished every so often. There were others but not much.

KSNM/BCNMs were kind of a lockout but only in the sense of having the seals farmed which took time. Similar to Taper farming back in 1.0.

Overall, the purpose and original intent and use for Lockouts are to keep people coming each week and to extend the content til the Devs can create the next patch. Nothing more to it, its not any but that nor is it anything close to trying to define the natural of God or whether he exists or not.

Plain and Simple.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

i swear with no lockouts i would probably get every class of mine geared in ilevel 90 in a month. or probably even less.

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I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

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Originally Posted by RynaultB

I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

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no i meant with the current loot drop system we have right now. no lockouts with current loot system is making things way too easy.

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Originally Posted by RynaultB

I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

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Call me crazy but that's what I expect from a MMORPG, a huge time sink.

I don't mind other people getting ahead, if catching up doesn't means I have to wait so many weeks (simply wait, not try again if I'm up for it). The idea of everything, every new content or function, having a "timer" just to extend it scares me. It allows the developers to get lazy with the content. Just see Coil... that's a really poor excuse of a dungeon.

Having all the gear in the game won't matter if I can't run the dungeon anymore.

Eight weeks of coils, never seen a single aiming piece drop.

Lock outs can suck my D.

[QUOTE=KaiserFire;1638442] snip

The coil turn lock out is fine, but the CT look lock out is not. XI has endgame systems that worked but they refuse to even try some of those. A one week lock out on loot is the worse thing they could probably due. Lets change it from one week loot lock out to a 3 day entering lock out or something.

The player who said making a static for coil is hard, it is not. I am sure with all the players that play you can find 7 other players who can be on at the same time for scheduled runs. It only takes 2 hours to finish coil and it can be done in a day.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

I\\\\'ve pointed this out to a poster before. Locking it to each class opens opportunities for it to be exploited. Each class now has the opportunity to get gear for your main as well.

To counter this exploit we would have to make loot, lootable only by your class. This now makes it no longer possible to pick up alt gear at all for any of your classes.

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How is that an "exploit"? Lock outs by class, for tomes and gear, is the ONLY way for the armory system to even be viable. As it sits now, sure, it will take ages to gear multiple classes, just like it did in XI.

Honestly though, after watching some of you play your "main" classes with all your i90 gear fail at such simple strategy as WP sr, I\\\\'m thinking it should take even longer than it already does to gear.

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Originally Posted by meJojo

Eight weeks of coils, never seen a single aiming piece drop.

Lock outs can suck my D.

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Bard's allagan pieces suck anyway. So much skill speed, pretty much no accuracy.

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Originally Posted by ProxyTooMuch

Bard's allagan pieces suck anyway. So much skill speed, pretty much no accuracy.

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Not the point.

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Originally Posted by meJojo

Not the point.

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maybe you should stop relying on RNG to gear then.

I wish they'd LOCK OUT the discussion on lockouts. I'm sick of it.

The only reason lockouts exist is due to the impracticality of creating new content faster than the hardcorest gamers can clear it. It's as simple as that.

There's really only one alternative to point caps, lockouts on attempts or lockouts on rewards, and that's placing an exhorbitant number of points /requirements on obtaining items, but this only makes them more unobtainable to the majority of people, so I don't consider it a very "fair" solution.