Lower Level Dungeons Harder than WP / AK

They really need to increase the difficulty of WP and AK , right now it is so boring running these dungeons mainly due to the zero lack of skill needed to do them .

I recall that a lot of lower lvl dungeons being ALOT harder than these end game dungeons .

Why would they make game get easier instead of harder ? Coil being the only other challenge but that is locked out most of the time so useless.

Dungeon difficulty is focused on the assumption of all players never doing it before and are all geared somewhat closely on-level with with the mob levels they will encounter. Just because people can grossly overgear a dungeon and memorize the perfect paths/pulls to do it in less than 15 minutes doesn't mean the dungeon is easy. 4-man dungeons aren't catered to the hardcore minority, they are designed for everyone (including casuals). Hard Mode dungeons will solve your problem if you're looking for more "hardcore" focused content.

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Originally Posted by Velox

Dungeon difficulty is focused on the assumption of all players never doing it before and are all geared somewhat closely on-level with with the mob levels they will encounter. Just because people can grossly overgear a dungeon and memorize the perfect paths/pulls to do it in less than 15 minutes doesn't mean the dungeon is easy. 4-man dungeons aren't catered to the hardcore minority, they are designed for everyone (including casuals). Hard Mode dungeons will solve your problem if you're looking for more "hardcore" focused content.

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So what you are saying is that AK and WP are actually harder than ST , AV and DD ?

Because ppl can't run low level dungeon with iLevel gears 20-40 higher than the dungeon.
Also no one run low level dungeon 50+ times so they know the dungeon like the back of their hand.

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

Because ppl can't run low level dungeon with iLevel gears 20-40 higher than the dungeon.
Also no one run low level dungeon 50+ times so they know the dungeon like the back of their hand.

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I've levelled 2 tanks to 50 in dungeons only so I am the one that has run low level dungeon 50+ times. I pretty much know what mob is coming around what corner , when how, what they are wearing and how much they weigh lol :)

With this far superior knowledge of dungeons and boss mechanics that as you said , no one but me has , I can tell you that for example the last boss in AK is a joke compared to the last boss in AV or ST .

Wiping in WP on first boss almost never happens even with the worst group you can imagine . But in those low level dungeons you could say some of the first bosses are hard as hell .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

I've levelled 2 tanks to 50 in dungeons only so I am the one that has run low level dungeon 50+ times.

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But when ppl do AK or WP, quite possible every one has ran the dungeon for 50+ times.

Also gear level make a huge difference. In AV your gear possibly sync down to like 55, 6 more than dungeon level. Where in AK many ppl are in Full DL, which is 20 more than dungeon level, not to mention Myth/Coil/+1 gears are 40 levels higher.

When I do AV for the first time, 2 of the party member has ran that for few times so they know it well, we clear the dungeon in 1 try.
When I did AK few days ago, one of the party member only got iLevel 55 weapon, and don't know the fight very well so he has been hit by Deamon Wall's ground spell multiple times, we wiped 2 times.

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

Also gear level make a huge difference. In AV your gear possibly sync down to like 55, 6 more than dungeon level. Where in AK many ppl are in Full DL, which is 20 more than dungeon level, not to mention Myth/Coil/+1 gears are 40 levels higher.

When I do AV for the first time, 2 of the party member has ran that for few times so they know it well, we clear the dungeon in 1 try.
When I did AK few days ago, one of the party member only got iLevel 55 weapon, and don't know the fight very well so he has been hit by Deamon Wall's ground spell multiple times, we wiped 2 times.

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hmm ok so I guess the dungeon system end game is flawed a bit . It should sync players down to level of the dungeon ( like iLvl 60 maybe ) so that it isn't a snooze fest . People would probably not like that tho because they want to speed run them .

However some people actually like to stay awake when gaming lol .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

hmm ok so I guess the dungeon system end game is flawed a bit . It should sync players down to level of the dungeon ( like iLvl 60 maybe ) so that it isn't a snooze fest . People would probably not like that tho because they want to speed run them .

However some people actually like to stay awake when gaming lol .

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Find some of those people and wear nothing but AK gear to run AK with, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by AltaneenXIV

Find some of those people and wear nothing but AK gear to run AK with, problem solved.

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or do it in Bathing suits

Those dungeons are intended to gear fresh 50s. So yeah, once you get the stuff within and beyond of course they become easy.

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Originally Posted by TychoCelchu

or do it in Bathing suits

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heh yeah tried that , some BLM got sadface because he couldn't do as much dmg as he could if I was full DL and bailed .

Let's make this clear. AK and WP aren't easy dungeons. They became easy because everyone and their grandmothers knows the dungeon by heart. And repeated them over and over again.

I'll just say the following thing. I belonged to the first group of people rushing through the storline. Which also meant that I did all the dungeons(except for Praetorium) with people that had never done it before. And didn't had access to the gear most of us have now. And many people that were there can testify that some of us wiped and didn't clear the dungeons.

I failed AK twice due to tonberry king and his rancor mechanics that none of us understood at the time. And many parties wiped at Demon wall. And not only because the dps was subpar. But because people couldn't dodge the lanes and didn't know when repel was coming. And I'm also guessing that people wiped at the dragon as well.

Long story short, the dungeons were hard. But we've all done them many times to the point it became a walk in the park.

There is a reason people hate Tiered item levels for endgame progression.

It ruins the difficulty of lower iLv dungeons.

Level sync wont work, they need item level sync.

Low level dungeon hard ??

The only 2 problems I've seen so far are
1. People refuse to teach and listen to each other.
2. FATE runner.

AV Last boss: I don't think it is too hard to just eat fruit, avoid Bad Breath and aoe fruit down isn't it?

Temple Last boss: I don't think it is too hard to kill everything that pop isn't it ?

Darkhold Last boss: Hm... avoid black floor and red line... hard ? Oh wait, tank might pull boss to the whole group and get his aoe spin that's why it seems hard.

tldr

The whole game is easy if you do it in gear according to the lvl of the content you are doing. Lowlevel dungeons often seem to be harder becourse ppl join them with average itemlevels 20+ benath the dungeon. An exception might be that doom-boss or golden vale. The issue there is that often ppl join with an average IQ 20+ points below the base human.

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Originally Posted by Aedra

Low level dungeon hard ??

The only 2 problems I've seen so far are
1. People refuse to teach and listen to each other.
2. FATE runner.

AV Last boss: I don't think it is too hard to just eat fruit, avoid Bad Breath and aoe fruit down isn't it?

Temple Last boss: I don't think it is too hard to kill everything that pop isn't it ?

Darkhold Last boss: Hm... avoid black floor and red line... hard ? Oh wait, tank might pull boss to the whole group and get his aoe spin that's why it seems hard.

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Tanking AK last boss , stand in corner hit 123 123 123 123 get bored or healer forgot that you needed a heal ? pop some cooldowns .. 123 123 123 no need to even move .
Tanking WP last boss , stand in middle hit 123 123 123 123 , boss got 3-4 stacks , pop some cooldowns .. 123 123 123 . no need to even move .

Tanking ST last boss, 123 123 123 123 123 run around like your life depends on it dodge lazers and frontal AOE
Tanking AV last boss, 123 123 move fast out of AOE or get debuff of death , 123 .. crap eat some fruit , crap frontal AOE ... avoid ... 123 crap he ran off to spawn adds . crap more AOE ... omg need more fruit .. omg frontal AOE .. oh yeah 123 123

I think almost every dungeon you have to move to avoid mechanics ... except for lvl 50 dungeons .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

They really need to increase the difficulty of WP and AK , right now it is so boring running these dungeons mainly due to the zero lack of skill needed to do them .

I recall that a lot of lower lvl dungeons being ALOT harder than these end game dungeons .

Why would they make game get easier instead of harder ? Coil being the only other challenge but that is locked out most of the time so useless.

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Your lvl is synced in lower lvl dungeons, so is your gear. So you can NEVER outgear it. AK/WP are easy because people outgear them.

Easiest example...with my current gear I lose 2k HP on my PLD when I enter Aurum Vale, which is synced to lvl49...so just 1 lvl below cap to get full benefit of my gear...

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Originally Posted by Grailer

I think almost every dungeon you have to move to avoid mechanics ... except for lvl 50 dungeons .

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Your problem is that you're the tank. Let's take WP for example. First boss fires attacks at the DPS/heals with red cones and circles. Second boss spawns ADDs that need to be killed, each one having a different effect if not killed in time. Then it will pick a random target and chase after them. Also uses Fire which you should avoid. 3rd Boss, Tonberry King, has ADDs running for your throat and increases his attack for each Tonberry killed. If you don't overgear that boss and you kill all the Tonberries you are likely to die.

AK, first boss is a lot harder not knowing the fight. ADDs spawn and do a giant frontal cone thing and the other one uses an unavoidable Obliterate. Then a giant one spawns and covers the whole room in AOE, only avoidable by standing outside of the circle or through LOS. Void Thunder 3 also has to be avoided the whole time, or silenced. Second boss, Demon Wall, road blocker of many and a true DPS check. Everyone has to avoid the mechanics of this fight and when the bees spawn there are several ways to deal with them. Both bees do an attack that inflicts para which means you either take it or have to stun both (if PLD) meanwhile still not getting hit off the edge by Repel and not bringing the bees too close to the DPS. The third and final boss does two attacks in a row (Rotten Breath and... I forget the other one) that do massive damage if you are averagely geared for AK. He also throws in The Look which does a good amount of damage as well. Meanwhile DPS have to run around, killing ADDs by themselves, moving bombs away from the party, avoiding Imminent Catastrophe, etc.

Basically, don't forget that this isn't a 1v1 fight. And that you likely outgear the dungeon when you find it EZ PZ.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Your problem is that you're the tank.

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Well now I know the problem I can fix that , time to not be tank and do another class .

its like people said, the dungeons are difficult but having people geared for them makes it trivial, but i know wp can be a pain if the tank isnt fully geared ._. same with ak, or if someone is bad and doesnt know how to play at lvl50........ lol

I'm going to take a guess and assume you didn't run AK/WP in the first couple of weeks that the game came out and that you just don't know.

You find WP and AK easy because you run it with iLvL 70 and 90 shit. The end.

when you have a tank with 6k life, even max grudge is *shrug* And when you have ilvl66->90 weapons, tomberry is kill in 3 shots. In Demon wall, you can ignore bees with a decent ilevel.

AV is quite easy if people know what's coming, but still put up a fight from level sync. Everything feels slow, and made worse without lvl50 abilities(and your 5th cross class ability), so there's there's always something off about what you feel you can do, and what actually happens.

There are 2 main reasons why 'end game' dungeons are easier.
1: people are familiar with boss mechanics
2: people have a higher iLVL than the content.

There are ways to even out-gear lower level content, usually this is having entire gear pink/green to your current level (or crafted/bought armor filled with materia).

Now, if you want to have a challange even knowing the mechanics, find 3 friends and everyone use their level 44 GC weapon along with full AF armor (I'm going to say darklight & AK accessories are allowed to be nice). Now go back through AK again, the way you would have with a full party of new people and you'll see that mechanics go a long way in the fight but you take a LOT more damage and kill things much slower.

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Originally Posted by Teleniel

Now, if you want to have a challange even knowing the mechanics, find 3 friends and everyone use their level 44 GC weapon along with full AF armor

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Wrong! Go into AK with 4 people that only equip level 30-39 grey weapon, AF armor, level 1 belt, no earrings or rings and maybe a level 20 wrist.

When you get to wall, you randomly have to have 1 person get repelled (basically last person who gets to middle needs to sacrifice himself). The healer can't cleanse unless the party member asks for it in party chat. When you get to final boss, same thing, the healer can't cleanse unless party member asks for it. Last person behind a statue needs to eat an imminent catastrophe. (Only sacrifice 1 person per boss to these raid mechanics).
Basically pretend this is your groups first time into this dungeon, just like duty finder lower level dungeons.

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We don't want players to have to spend a lot of time getting to level 50. The reason behind this is that we believe the game up to level 50 is basically your tutorial. The real game begins from level 50. We have the real challenges begin there.

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It's "harder" to let you experience it during the "tutorial" phase of the game (Levels 1-50) so that when you hit 50 and start doing stuff like HM Primals and Coil, you won't be a complete tool who thinks standing around is the only way to do it.

WP and AK had interesting mechanics when people first ran them. People adapt and due to the dungeons being required for most to cap out their myth tomes or to farm for philosophy tomes and equips to prepare them for harder content, it just gets easier.

It'll be the same in a few months time when most of the better players have killed twintania and conquered The Binding Coil of Bahamut. Would you then wish they came here and say "Lower Level Dungeons Harder than BCOB" simply because they're facerolling it weekly?

It's the whole point of "progression". The dungeons get easier the more times you run it. Also, there's definitely a higher % chance of running into a newbie going into lower level dungeons in your group as compared to WP/AK simply because people run WP/AK for tomes and majority of them aren't in the "newbie" phase anymore.

Having any decent group of people (with no connection issues) together will result in facerolling most if not all of the content currently in the game. Does that mean the game is too easy? Yes, for the people who are "MMO Veterans". No, for the people who are "Casual Players".

If you'd prefer slow runs for tome farming with more "challenge", I suggest you go run Titan HM till you get the tomes you require instead of asking for WP/AK to have an ilvl sync.

I'm pretty sure if you're the decent player you think you are, in just a few short days, you'll find titan HM easier than lower level dungeons as well but I doubt it.