Best Monk Set?

Maybe one day when there is better theorycrafting this will be disproven, but for now, with my arbitrary weights, this appears to be the best?

Monk
Rank: 1

• Weapon - Allagan Baghnakhs
• Head - Melee Circlet
• Chest - Allagan Cuirass of Striking
• Hands - Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
• Waist - Allagan Tassets of Striking
• Legs - Melee Gaskins
• Feet - Allagan Sollerets of Striking
• Neck - Allagan Choker of Maiming
• Ear - Allagan Earrings of Maiming
• Wrist - Allagan Bracelets of Maiming
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Maiming
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Striking

Accuracy: 132 Determination: 84 Critical Hit Rate: 166 Skill Speed: 32

The relic set comes in at:
Accuracy: 133 Determination: 81 Critical Hit Rate: 144 Skill Speed: 58

I was heading in the direction of a strong skill speed and determination set while also making sure to hit the accuracy caps through gear and proper food.

I haven't been able to find a reliable source for stat weights for monks due to the mysterious nature of theorycrafting in this game. Some monks hate skillspeed and claim it is "worthless" (even though it has the highest amount of it on gear vs det which has the lowest for example). I'm not sure which set I'll use :(

I personaly think crit is worthless, you'll rely on a higher "chance" to do more damage while skill speed is consistent, sure there are encounters where you have to get away from your target but some people just don't concider, that once you get used to the encounter you can maximize your uptime on the boss where skill speed starts to shine.

Skill Speed is consistent yes, but playing to the law of large numbers you get a higher return on points spent on crit than you do on points spent in skill speed.

Why not go for both Crit and Skill Speed? That's What I've been doing.

skill speed is needed in end game dungeons since you move alot. Loosing GL stacks are unavoidable.

Is that really the BiS? I think SS is very important for monk as stated by Yiell, its iinevitable you will lose GL in raids so the faster youget them back up the more damage you do. Not sure. Also was the relic se just relic pieces only?

The thing is SS is important in that you need to reach a certain amount so that your rotation is comfortable and there is more room for breaks (especially in coil fights to move). I never really understood why people would take crit over Determination UNLESS you had a ability that procced off of a crit. Monk has no abilities like that so I would rather choose Determination > Skill Speed (to a certain amount) > Crit

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

Is that really the BiS? I think SS is very important for monk as stated by Yiell, its iinevitable you will lose GL in raids so the faster youget them back up the more damage you do. Not sure. Also was the relic se just relic pieces only?

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The returns are incredibly low. Selene gives more than 100 SS, and that gives like .1 gcd reduction. That's comparable to what you will get from an entire gear set based on SS. That is simply not enough.

I would love for SS to be the monk's go-to stat. It suits us, however the stat isn't really at that point right now. If it increased auto-attacks and tp regen, it'd be valuable.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

The returns are incredibly low. Selene gives more than 100 SS, and that gives like .1 gcd reduction. That's comparable to what you will get from an entire gear set based on SS. That is simply not enough.

I would love for SS to be the monk's go-to stat. It suits us, however the stat isn't really at that point right now. If it increased auto-attacks and tp regen, it'd be valuable.

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Well, Selene is 30% increase so the more SS you have the better! Honestly it's all opinion, but I stand by Determination followed by whatever skill speed you want while feeling comfortable in your rotation. Crit last for me.

I think the best set will be:
Allagan Wep
Allagan Helm
Allagan Chest
Allagan Gloves
Allagan Belt
AF2 Pants
Allagan Boots
Allagan DRG Neck
AF2 Earrings
AF2 Bracelet
Allagan MNK and DRG rings

This gives us a total of 469 accuracy, enough to cap off with food, 488 str, 490 crit, 301 det, and 373 skill speed. Who knows if my math is correct. I much prefer Det and Crit to skill speed.

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Originally Posted by Shiji

Well, Selene is 30% increase so the more SS you have the better! Honestly it's all opinion, but I stand by Determination followed by whatever skill speed you want while feeling comfortable in your rotation. Crit last for me.

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It's only "opinion" until everything gets properly calculated and simulated. Then there will be a clear hierarchy of stats. All information thus far has shown that SS gives the lowest return by a considerable margin.
Crit and determination is up in the air, but most of the stat calculators put crit ahead. There is an error of margin, but it's becoming less and less as people perfect the algorithms.

Stats are math, and math is not opinionated.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

It's only "opinion" until everything gets properly calculated and simulated. Then there will be a clear hierarchy of stats. All information thus far has shown that SS gives the lowest return by a considerable margin.
Crit and determination is up in the air, but most of the stat calculators put crit ahead. There is an error of margin, but it's becoming less and less as people perfect the algorithms.

Stats are math, and math is not opinionated.

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Stats are math but often they are not applied to real situations. Simulations don't properly calculate fight mechanics, so they can show the correct stats for a "tank and spank" or target dummy fight. These typically don't exist.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just not 100% sold on the answers yet :)

Allagan leg is way better than AF2. Monk never had acc issue in coil.

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Originally Posted by Yiell

skill speed is needed in end game dungeons since you move alot. Loosing GL stacks are unavoidable.

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Thats true to some extent, but the returns on skill speed just don't make it viable. 100 skill speed will give you 4% haste whereas 100 crit will give more than 8% critical chance. (also TP starvation is a thing in coil)

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

Also was the relic se just relic pieces only?

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It was relic weapon only, all other gear was included.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

Allagan leg is way better than AF2. Monk never had acc issue in coil.

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This is a set of gear, not a single piece. The program I wrote to generate this takes into account every permutation of gear choice and weighs them to determine the best set.

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Originally Posted by Xell

This gives us a total of 469 accuracy, enough to cap off with food, 488 str, 490 crit, 301 det, and 373 skill speed. Who knows if my math is correct. I much prefer Det and Crit to skill speed.

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The only sets that were considered were those that provide a minimum of 131 accuracy, as capping with food has already been found to be a worse choice than being capped and using other foods to boost stats. Also, why are you counting strength? You are aware that allagan and af2 provide identical stat points, right?

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Originally Posted by Aeoliana

The only sets that were considered were those that provide a minimum of 131 accuracy, as capping with food has already been found to be a worse choice than being capped and using other foods to boost stats. Also, why are you counting strength? You are aware that allagan and af2 provide identical stat points, right?

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Haha, yeah. It was silly of me to include str.

As for the food, I guess I didn't look very deeply into that. I agree, buttons are better than accuracy food. I would then swap in the monk AF2 chest for 10 extra accuracy. Pre-food this would give us 479 acc, 466 crit, 301 det, and 397 skill speed. Post food it would be 479 acc, 474 crit, 316 det, and 397 skill speed. Essentially just swapping out some crit for more determination.

Its better to just use the raw stats off the gear...

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Originally Posted by Aeoliana

Its better to just use the raw stats off the gear...

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Sorry. 138 Accuracy, 115 crit, 99 det, 56 SS. Pre food. Comparable to your 2nd set, that's +5acc(Irrelevant if 131 hits the cap) -29crit, +15det, -2SS.

I guess it's hard to say what's actually better (unless the stat weights are correct, which I'm not sure they are). I prefer det, but probably not quite 2:1 over crit. I concede my set, I prefer yours. Actually I prefer your first with 32 SS.

If it makes you feel better, I didn't make it by hand, I let my computer consider all possible sets, so yours is in the list somewhere!

Nope, still going to go cry in a corner. If I can't beat a machine, what good am I?

Posted this in Monk Temple, but relevant here too:

I have melee helm and sphirai +1. Gryphonskin chest/legs/boots/ring (fully melded with crit and some determination and a decent amount of skill speed), Allagan Earrings of Maiming (I guess this is the DRG earring but it'll do... is the Striking one better you think?), Darklight everything else, and now deciding on what to buy with tomes next. What do you think is the best upgrade and the one that can be more considered best in slot when considering damage and keeping accuracy up, Melee Chest or Melee Pants? Not sure which one to save for next....

Is there agreement as to whether AF2 Chest is BiS in the scope of things? Or pants? Seems like ACC will be a problem, but their secondary stats are meh. I would much rather have Crit/Det....

Here is the best set using the Melee Cyclas, needless to say, it is phenomenally worse than sets using the allagan cuirass (there are 636 sets that are considered to be better than it)

Rank: 637

• Weapon - Sphairai +1
• Head - Melee Circlet
• Chest - Melee Cyclas
• Hands - Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
• Waist - Allagan Tassets of Striking
• Legs - Melee Gaskins
• Feet - Allagan Sollerets of Striking
• Neck - Hero's Necklace of Slaying
• Ear - Allagan Earrings of Striking
• Wrist - Hero's Bracelet of Slaying
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Maiming
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Striking

Accuracy: 135 Determination: 66 Critical Hit Rate: 105 Skill Speed: 58

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Originally Posted by Aeoliana

Here is the best set using the Melee Cyclas, needless to say, it is phenomenally worse than sets using the allagan cuirass (there are 636 sets that are considered to be better than it)

Rank: 637

• Weapon - Sphairai +1
• Head - Melee Circlet
• Chest - Melee Cyclas
• Hands - Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
• Waist - Allagan Tassets of Striking
• Legs - Melee Gaskins
• Feet - Allagan Sollerets of Striking
• Neck - Hero's Necklace of Slaying
• Ear - Allagan Earrings of Striking
• Wrist - Hero's Bracelet of Slaying
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Maiming
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Striking

Accuracy: 135 Determination: 66 Critical Hit Rate: 105 Skill Speed: 58

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That can't be right. Those numbers are far too low. Just compare it with the last one I linked, which did use an AF2 chest.

It says allagan chest...

Not only that but the stats you listed were wrong, its 128 acc 99 det 149 crit 32 ss

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Originally Posted by Aeoliana

It says allagan chest...

Not only that but the stats you listed were wrong, its 128 acc 99 det 149 crit 32 ss

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Right, those were the stats for it with Allagan chest. The stats linked my newer post were using the AF2 chest, sorry if that wasn't clear.

Can you post the entire set then? Because the set I posted is the best set including the Melee Cyclas that reaches the accuracy cap as far as I can tell.

Dropping the accuracy requirement to 120 brings the first AF2 Chest set to rank 35

I'm fairly certain there was an error in whatever program are using. The stats are just way too low. Only looking at skill speed, the weapon, chest, and boots push you over the total of 58.

The set I'm talking about is the same as the first one I posted with an AF2 chest instead of the Allagan.

Ooooh yep I was missing a number. Here is the revised AF2 Chest set, it now ranks 27th

Rank: 27

• Weapon - Allagan Baghnakhs
• Head - Melee Circlet
• Chest - Melee Cyclas
• Hands - Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
• Waist - Allagan Tassets of Striking
• Legs - Melee Gaskins
• Feet - Allagan Sollerets of Striking
• Neck - Hero's Necklace of Slaying
• Ear - Allagan Earrings of Striking
• Wrist - Hero's Bracelet of Slaying
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Maiming
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Striking

Accuracy: 132 Determination: 84 Critical Hit Rate: 142 Skill Speed: 56

Interesting that the only difference between that and the rank 1 set you linked is 24 crit into 24 skill speed. What are the weights given to SS and crit, if I might ask?

Critical Hit Rate is weighted at 1 and Skill Speed at .5

Once there is a better formula for how Skill Speed reduces GCD that may change, but not by enough to change the overall result

(I was told 100ss for .1gcd and 100 crit for 8% crit)

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Originally Posted by Aeoliana

(I was told 100ss for .1gcd and 100 crit for 8% crit)

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I can attest to that being true for SS, or at least close to it. It's more easily testable than crit considering you can just check the recast timer after increase. My test was with Selene. You can measure the increase in SS and the change in recast to get a decent formula.
Crit is obviously harder to measure.

Has anything changed in your calculations? In another thread, I found some neat builds, but I found none that matched yours that ranked #1. Yours is the same one I came up with just messing with XiV with scratch paper math. Anyway what do you think about them...

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

If you prefer Det>Crit>SS, 60%>30%>10%:

Boots: Either
Head: Allagan
Waist: Allagan
Chest: Allagan
Legs: Melee
Gloves: Allagan
Bracelet: Allagan of maiming
Neck: Hero's
Earrings: Allagan of striking
Rings: Allagan of striking & maiming

You'll get 476 accuracy (4 over), +134 crit, +81 det, +32 ss.

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This one is similar to Rank1, but was added up wrong, and Rank1 beats this build anyway....

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Edit:
Toying with different weights on this is silly. To shaft Skill Speed just a little less, here's one with .7 Det, .2 Crit, and .1 Skill Speed.

Weapon: Allagan
Boots: Whatever
Head: Allagan
Waist: Allagan
Chest: Melee
Legs: Melee
Gloves: Melee
Wrist: Hero's of Slaying
Neck: Hero's of Slaying
Ear: Allagan of Maiming
Ring: Allagan of Striking and Maiming

This gives 110 Crit, 103 Determination, 60 Skill Speed, and 133 Accuracy.

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This one is the 2nd batch of builds i found interesting. Like ours, we still have det and crit focused, however these builds come with extra det, a tad less crit, and some more skill speed. is it worth it?

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Originally Posted by Aeoliana

Ooooh yep I was missing a number. Here is the revised AF2 Chest set, it now ranks 27th

Rank: 27

• Weapon - Allagan Baghnakhs
• Head - Melee Circlet
• Chest - Melee Cyclas
• Hands - Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
• Waist - Allagan Tassets of Striking
• Legs - Melee Gaskins
• Feet - Allagan Sollerets of Striking
• Neck - Hero's Necklace of Slaying
• Ear - Allagan Earrings of Striking
• Wrist - Hero's Bracelet of Slaying
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Maiming
• Ring - Allagan Ring of Striking

Accuracy: 132 Determination: 84 Critical Hit Rate: 142 Skill Speed: 56

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So 24 crit pushed this down 26 levels? Might be worth while to get till you get Allagan body at least. I mean it is in Turn 4 and your not gonna be in DL forever right? lol 24 crit is like just over 2% CHR, seems a bit drastic?

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

So 24 crit pushed this down 26 levels? Might be worth while to get till you get Allagan body at least. I mean it is in Turn 4 and your not gonna be in DL forever right? lol 24 crit is like just over 2% CHR, seems a bit drastic?

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I think the important thing to remember about ranking these sets of gear is that the differences are incredibly small. The top 25-50% are probably all just a few points different.

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Originally Posted by Aeoliana

Thats true to some extent, but the returns on skill speed just don't make it viable. 100 skill speed will give you 4% haste whereas 100 crit will give more than 8% critical chance. (also TP starvation is a thing in coil)

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100 crit will give less than 8%. Current formulas have it at 6.9% unless there's been significant testing recently post-valk's. In addition, Monks have a good baseline average crit due to Bootshine mechanics and a traited IR.

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This is a set of gear, not a single piece. The program I wrote to generate this takes into account every permutation of gear choice and weighs them to determine the best set.

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The question is what stat weights are being used. I have Excel with a solver function that can spit out similar results, but it goes back to how much modeling vs. simulation vs. "gut feeling" / bias there is with the stat weights. I use stat weights based on a rotation model / partial simulation.

There's also legitimate strategic considerations like TP drain re: SS, which may or may not matter depending on the fight (and which also is really a "breakpoint" function where SS less than a certain amount has a normal value, but SS above the "softcap" will have TP problems in long fights and therefore has low value ... actually I could probably model that softcap).


Sidenote: What the heck is with this "rank" concept? There's basically T5 BiS and T4 BiS. Everything else is irrelevant for identifying because it's based on your personal luck with gear acquisition, which is unique to each player.

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Originally Posted by paradigmshift

This one is similar to Rank1, but was added up wrong, and Rank1 beats this build anyway....

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The build you just quoted was for someone using Relic+1 and weights 60%>30%>10%, Det>crit>SS
That's for a completely different scenario from Aeoliana's set in their original post. Their scenario is for someone using Allagan Baghnakhs weapon, and they're using different weights of Crit 1> Det .5> SS ? as mentioned in post #30

But, in that scenario of using Allagan Baghnakhs and having weights of Crit>Det>SS by 1>.5>0 (im using 0 as the weight of SS to imply that it's irrelevant, as I'm guessing Aeoliana did too)

Though i'm not sure what accuracy cap they are using. im assuming its 472.

in this case, my excel solver spits out:
Weapon: Allagan Baghnakhs
Boots: Either, they're the same
Head: Melee
Waist: Allagan
Chest: Allagan
Legs: Melee
Gloves: Allagan
Bracelet: Allagan of maiming
Neck: Allagan of maiming
Earrings: Hero's
Rings: Allagan of striking & maiming

Overall you'll have: Accuracy 473 (1 over), Crit +166, Det +84, SS +32

Aeoliana recommends:
Weapon - Allagan Baghnakhs
Head - Melee Circlet
Chest - Allagan Cuirass of Striking
Hands - Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
Waist - Allagan Tassets of Striking
Legs - Melee Gaskins
Feet - Allagan Sollerets of Striking
Neck - Allagan Choker of Maiming
Ear - Allagan Earrings of Maiming
Wrist - Allagan Bracelets of Maiming
Ring - Allagan Ring of Maiming
Ring - Allagan Ring of Striking

They got the same exact set I did, using the same exact pieces to also get overall you'll have: Accuracy 473 (1 over), Crit +166, Det +84, SS +32



So with the scenario Allagan Baghnakhs and Crit>Det>SS weighted as 1>.5>0, we got the same results.
So I have confirmed that given this scenario, then this is the best set.

However, if you would like to try sets with different scenarios (like what if you used Relic+1 for the weapon instead and you only need 94 accuracy instead of 131 acc to reach a 472 cap. Or what if you have a different cap you want to use? Or what if you want use different weights, maybe you want to try Det>Crit>SS instead, or maybe you want to go Crit>Det>SS as well but would like to have their weights of relative importance to be different (yes this effects how much the solver will go out of its way to grab one stat over another)? Then here is my excel sheet:

To view it you can look at:
https://docs.google.com/a/csu.fuller...tLTMtV0E#gid=0

To download it, and make adjustments of your own you can download it here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oeecuwfyic...14monkgear.xls

To make adjustments of your own, here are the steps:
1. choose your minimum accuracy requirement. at the bottom right you will see "accuracy YY >= XX" to change this, change the XX cell number on the right of the >=. To find what value of accuracy you need from equipment take your cap (472) and subract your base accuracy (341), you'll need 131 accuracy. if you are using Relic+1 which gives you 37 accuracy then you'll only need 94 from equipment instead.

2. Alter your weights to your content. On the right side under "relative importance" are how much you want to weigh each stat based on how important it should be. and no, it doesn't have to equal 100% it doesn't have to be something like 30/60/10, for example you could use 1/.5/0 if you want.

3. Click on the green box number, the total objective.

4. Go to the Data tab > then on the right click on "Solver" it has a question mark icon

5. Click solve. The solver will spit out the 0's and 1's in blue to tell you which pieces to use. It will also show you the sum of stats for the equipment, and multply the stats by the weights to show you what the total objective is which is the optimal point.



If you don't have the solver plugin on your excel here's how you can get it:
1. on excel go to file.
2. select options
3. select add-ins
4. select solver addin-in
5. click Go...

you can also find the other monk set thread here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...r-A-Discussion
I had to make a couple updates to my excel sheet, but now that those things have been fixed, especially now that i've compared it to Aeoliana's set following the same scenario and came up with the same answer, i can now say for certain that it is correct.

The only question left is really how much does a one point increase in crit, det, or ss effect a how much increase in dps. then we'd know what the actual weights should be.

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Originally Posted by paradigmshift

This one is the 2nd batch of builds i found interesting. Like ours, we still have det and crit focused, however these builds come with extra det, a tad less crit, and some more skill speed. is it worth it?

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I'm personally a goodly fan of that set. It satisfies my slightly selfish desire to "look" like I'm wearing the Melee set while avoiding the pitfalls of way too much Accuracy and Skill speed as a result of wearing too much of the set. Additionally, if Determination really is more important than Crit rate, then that 103 is going to wreck things. The only problem is getting that silly Allagan Weapon. It's the only non-trivial acquisition there :)

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Originally Posted by Xell

I think the best set will be:
Allagan Wep
Allagan Helm
Allagan Chest
Allagan Gloves
Allagan Belt
AF2 Pants
Allagan Boots
Allagan DRG Neck
AF2 Earrings
AF2 Bracelet
Allagan MNK and DRG rings

This gives us a total of 469 accuracy, enough to cap off with food, 488 str, 490 crit, 301 det, and 373 skill speed. Who knows if my math is correct. I much prefer Det and Crit to skill speed.

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Turn 5 you're gonna miss with 469, not that much but still... 473~ is the way to go.

I did had some miss with 471 Acc.


I havent made a set yet, despit the fact that i'm almost full ilvl90 (so i could reach good amount of STR asap and now i'm gonna work on changing some pieces), i'd like to have 2 or 3 sets.

One Crit. set (without bard that can't regen TP, and keep the Acc.473)
One Skillspeed set (With a Bard that can regen TP, and keep the Acc.473)
One full crit.det set (with loss of ton of Acc. for lower mob or maybe Crystal Tower)