#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

What is it with people coming in with multi-post text walls and somehow addressing none of the points of the strike? It's happened at least twice now.

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They're here to keep the strike topic at the top of the forum.

I will keep saying it, but the best they could do to add complexity in a good way to healers is giving attacks that use the Job Gauge... Lilies for WHM, Addersgall for SGE and make Energy Drain for SCH into an actually respectable attack and not just a 100 potency poke.

AST cards being a damage boost are always useful, but every other part is just RNG as you can only get MP regen from Astrodyne or a good damage boost. And Minor Arcana has a 50/50 chance to do effectively nothing.

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Originally Posted by BelleStarlily

The healer role is a caster role, so our main focus is doing damage and I agreed in my post that we need one or a few more damage spells to make it a bit more fun, however, even in it's current state I cannot say it's boring because you still need to optimize to get to the point where you're pressing your filler damage spell 90% of the time. Where it gets a little repetitive is when you're beyond that optimization point but quite honestly no matter how healers played once you know the fights and have lined up your cooldowns it's bound to be boring unless something goes completely wrong and you need to improvise.

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Saying that things get repetitive only when your optimizing is just factually incorrect. To prove this, I went and found some logs of healers who ranked very low, the idea being that low damage = not optimal. And here is what I found:

https://i.imgur.com/8FBjCa3.png

Even when you are not optimal, you are STILL spending the vast majority of your casts on one button. I did the math for this one and it was over 60% of GCDs were DPS. Again I REALLY do not understand why people are so against splitting that 1 enormous Glare bare into like 3-4 smaller bars.

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Originally Posted by Amity_Roji

But that's effectively "deleting" healers, like I said.

Healers want to heal. We don't want to be DPS - otherwise we'd just play the DPS jobs.

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I agree. Healers should heal more in all content, not just the occasional Extreme / Savage / Ultimate fight. It’s why I advocate for slight tank sustain / mitigation nerfs and minimum item level dungeons at max level.

However, this doesn’t mean the healer jobs don’t deserve their own mini-dps rotation. We can built such a rotation using each job’s current DPS kit.

Let’s take a look at WHM for example:

Glare III - Fine As Is
Afflatus Misery - Fine As Is
Dia - 30sec DoT ability
Glare IV - Locked behind a 120sec ability
Holy - Only used in AoE situations.

The problematic DPS actions are Dia, Glare IV, and , Holy. These three actions deserve to be used more in WHM’s dps rotation.

Let’s make some adjustments.

Decrease Presence of Mind’s CD down from 120secs to 60secs for more Glare IV’s.

Shorten Dia’s DoT timer to 12, 15, or 20secs. Make WHM press this button more.

Introduce a new trait that allows each tick / second of Dia’s DoT timer to proc into Glare IV. This works similarly to BLM’s old Thunder proc ability.

Change Holy into an AoE DoT ability after Presence of Mind is used. This makes Holy, a Final Fantasy staple, usable in a single target rotation for WHM as it’s new “finisher.”

There. A mini-DPS rotation for WHM with no new DPS actions included. The only thing left to do is to have the job gain a weaker version of Glare IV at an early level and have Cure I naturally upgrade to Cure II.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Try LotRO
Even there you won't escape the DPS.

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Ah but unless it has changed in the last few years LotRO didn't force the trinity. And yes it was possible to get a matchmade group that was not viable because there were too many squishys. It was also possible to get an unkillable group.

- A Mini player

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Have Cure I naturally upgrade to Cure II.

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Freecure outliving undraw really shows just how clueless whoever is in charge of healer design is,

the low level Glare 4 should totally be a water spell and I would like "Enhanced Holy" to be Aero 3 upgrading to Holy 2 somewhere around 60-70. Glare 2 can remain mysteriously absent because it's funny.

Xenosys finally reacted to the strike he caused, and what a shocker, he basically told healers to go play savage if they want to feel needed. Yes, you do need healers in high end content, but it doesn't change the core argument of how fucking boring they become after the initial prog of a fight. You have barely anything to optimise on this job. You mash one button over and over, and even in savage (as I have played it) you're just mashing glare for up to 30 seconds at a time before the next raid wide of body check mechanic hits.

What a shocker every youtuber who went to the media tour is basically dismissive of the healer strike and the general sentiment of healing in this game. I wonder why?

And let's not basically tell our midcore playerbase to fuck off to another game. This game is just two extremes now. Casual content is a complete snooze fest to anybody who puts a little bit of effort into the game, and extremes+ have gotten more and more difficult with current encounter design. Where's the middle ground?

Saying dungeons do not matter, or that literally nobody cares (he literally opened the thread where people care lol?) is just ridiculous too. We all have roullettes to do for tome-related gear and I'd like to do content which doesn't put me to sleep. I'd like for the healer role to be playable under savage and not miserable.

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

Yes, you do need healers in high end content, but it doesn't change the core argument of how fucking boring they become after the initial prog of a fight. You have barely anything to optimise on this job. You mash one button over and over, and even in savage (as I have played it) you're just mashing glare for up to 30 seconds at a time before the next raid wide of body check mechanic hits.

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Woah woah now hold up buddy.

Healers are boring DURING the initial prog as well!

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

I mean, people were even talking about blacklisting everyone they saw taking part in this thread / the strike.

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LOL. And they call people in this thread drama queens.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

At this point, the situation is like:

Striking people on this thread, Zepla to some extent

vs.

Almost all the other FFXIV streamers, hardcore players, most of the Japanese community, most players in-game (who are totally unaware of this or anything else that happens on the forums), WeskAlber and Xenosys and other content creators who think this is all stupid, the FFXIV subreddit, the FFXIV discord communities (besides the discord created for this thread) . . .


I feel like this thread would have a greater impact (besides being a source of entertainment for people not on the forums) if the thread's creators and supporters reached out beyond the forums and talked about their concerns with other FFXIV media and in other FFXIV communities. Or if they would produce content of their own on YouTube, etc. Right now this thread is attracting attention, but in a negative sense. I mean, people were even talking about blacklisting everyone they saw taking part in this thread / the strike.

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That's really not "the situation." The issues with healer are known and have been talked about for years and years and years. The devs will either change something or they won't. While healers suck, people who don't enjoy them will not play them anymore. And we will chat about it in this thread. That's it. People elsewhere talking shit don't matter at all.

I'm glad so many people are expressing how they feel about healing in FFXIV. It goes to show how passionate people are about this game. I think it'll be difficult to find the right foot forward since so many people like one suggested change, but others dislike it.

Either way I have faith the devs will do their best to respond to people's hopes.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

At this point, the situation is like:

Striking people on this thread, Zepla to some extent

vs.

Almost all the other FFXIV streamers, hardcore players, most of the Japanese community, most players in-game (who are totally unaware of this or anything else that happens on the forums), WeskAlber and Xenosys and other content creators who think this is all stupid, the FFXIV subreddit, the FFXIV discord communities (besides the discord created for this thread) . . .


I feel like this thread would have a greater impact (besides being a source of entertainment for people not on the forums) if the thread's creators and supporters reached out beyond the forums and talked about their concerns with other FFXIV media and in other FFXIV communities. Or if they would produce content of their own on YouTube, etc. Right now this thread is attracting attention, but in a negative sense. I mean, people were even talking about blacklisting everyone they saw taking part in this thread / the strike.

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Well, PCGAMER have picked up on it.
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/final-...g-them-at-all/

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

It's becoming spicy drama, for sure.

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Well, I was called a liar earier in this thread for stating I saw negativity outside of the forums about the strike. It clearly exists.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

At this point, the situation is like:

Striking people on this thread, Zepla to some extent

vs.

Almost all the other FFXIV streamers, hardcore players, most of the Japanese community, most players in-game (who are totally unaware of this or anything else that happens on the forums), WeskAlber and other content creators who think this is all stupid, the FFXIV subreddit, the FFXIV discord communities (besides the discord created for this thread) . . .


I feel like this thread would have a greater impact (besides being a source of entertainment for people not on the forums) if the thread's creators and supporters reached out beyond the forums and talked about their concerns with other FFXIV media and in other FFXIV communities. Or if they would produce content of their own on YouTube, etc. Right now this thread is attracting attention, but in a negative sense. I mean, people were even talking about blacklisting everyone they saw taking part in this thread / the strike.

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honestly I think biggest attention you will get is if enough players switch to something other than healer all together (no exceptions for friends or statics). Because the only thing I can see as likely to move SQEX to do anything about it is if healer numbers on SQEX own internal metrics shows a massive drop in healers. Even then you are looking at 8.0 imo as that is when redesigns of everything are supposed to happen.

As it is now what I see in game conversations runs along the line of "Time to dust off my healer for insta queues" or "What a bunch of whiners we are better off without them." Neither are my opinion just what I am seeing in chats in game.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

Yes, it's definitely vitriolic in many places outside of this thread. I feel like that could change if efforts at outreach and communication were made, but who knows.

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I'm not personally striking - but I do support this thread greatly because I agree with overall what it is trying to accomplish. I just think that the playerbase is too large, millions of players, for about 300 healers striking to make much of a difference. But, I do love how much attention the thread has gotten. Even if the strike itself does absolutely nothing, it brought a ton of awareness to the healer situation. Way more than any other Healer feedback attempt in recent years.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

LOL. And they call people in this thread drama queens.

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It's so surreal because the "call to action" of this strike is literally just "don't play healer if you don't like it", which is quite literally what people who think this thread is stupid have suggested us to do. So then if people do exactly that other people advocate they should get blacklisted.
Can't make this up.

What if we removed 1 healer of the traditional 2 healer party makeup? Basically replace one healer slot with a DPS?

The sole Healer gets more responsibilities, have their healing and DPS re-adjusted to make up for the loss of the 2nd healer, and their HP and MP Pools adjusted as well.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

What if we removed 1 healer of the traditional 2 healer party makeup? Basically replace one healer slot with a DPS?

The sole Healer gets more responsibilities, have their healing and DPS re-adjusted to make up for the loss of the 2nd healer, and their HP and MP Pools adjusted as well.

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I think many would argue that this puts too much pressure on the remaining healer, but at the same time I wonder how true that would be given that both tanks and DPS are getting stronger party mitigation and aoe healing in Dawntrail.

Like if the healer was truly alone then of course it’d be too much responsibility for a single person. But when you factor in the ways tanks can defensively support and heal the party, DPS having AoE heals and their own emergency heal with Second Wind, I’m not so sure just having one healer would be the same as ‘putting the whole responsibility of healing on a single player’.

Naturally though that would just cause a ‘counter-issue’ to arise where Tank/DPS have some responsibility to assist with healing depending on the circumstances, which I’m not sure many would enjoy

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

What if we removed 1 healer of the traditional 2 healer party makeup? Basically replace one healer slot with a DPS?

The sole Healer gets more responsibilities, have their healing and DPS re-adjusted to make up for the loss of the 2nd healer, and their HP and MP Pools adjusted as well.

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I'd personally miss healer team dynamics, and working with another healer to handle what healing is needed. I also enjoy having a pure heal and shield healer team. Most of the time though the other healer just lets me heal everything myself - which i'm okay with lol.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

At this point, the situation is like:

Striking people on this thread, Zepla to some extent

vs.

Almost all the other FFXIV streamers, hardcore players, most of the Japanese community, most players in-game (who are totally unaware of this or anything else that happens on the forums), WeskAlber and Xenosys and other content creators who think this is all stupid, the FFXIV subreddit, the FFXIV discord communities (besides the discord created for this thread) . . .


I feel like this thread would have a greater impact (besides being a source of entertainment for people not on the forums) if the thread's creators and supporters reached out beyond the forums and talked about their concerns with other FFXIV media and in other FFXIV communities. Or if they would produce content of their own on YouTube, etc. Right now this thread is attracting attention, but in a negative sense. I mean, people were even talking about blacklisting everyone they saw taking part in this thread / the strike.

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The real situation (because what you've said is misinterpreting what people say or outright lying) is that healers have been complaining for years and have been ignored and now are trying to be heard. Simple as that this is not a us vs them or anything and the fact that this thread grow so fast (and all the proofs showing healer "gameplay" if it can be called that) shows that there is a problem that needs to be solved

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

Excuse me, but I'm not "lying." I'm just stating what I've seen and experienced. I've been with this thread and on this topic for ages, too. There's no need to be rude to me.

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You say Xeno is against that, he outright talked about how the dps rotation should be changed
You say the hardcore community is against that, as someone that could be considered kinda hardcore I'm yet to find a healer main that does not support having our rotation changed
You say most people ingame are against that but when we get any community poll healers are the ones with the least satisfaction (and the majority would be indifferent)
You say the XIV discords, idk which because I've seen support on many as is well know that healer gameplay is shit
You say the XIV reddit, I've yet to find other than ffxiv which is known to be very adverse to even the slightest XIV criticism (and in some more serious like XIV discussion there is quite the dicussion and support behind it)

Almost all the streamers that were tone deaf were non healer mains which, to the surprise of nobody, don't talk shit because their income depends on being on SE and the toxic positive XIV community good side.

Once again this is a not us vs them, this is a collective of healers who are tired of our gameplay being the same of cookie clicker, especially when in the past we used to have much better gameplay and were able to do our duties as fine, if not better

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

You say Xeno is against that, he outright talked about the dps rotation should be changed
You say the hardcore community is against that, as someone that could be considered kinda hardcore I'm yet to find a healer main that does not support having our rotation changing
You say most people ingame are against that but when we get any community poll healers are the ones with the least satisfaction (and the majority would be indifferent)
You say the XIV discords, idk which because I've seen support on many as is well know that healer gameplay is shit
You say the XIV reddit, I've yet to find other than ffxiv which is known to be very adverse to even the slightest XIV criticism (and in some more serious like XIV discussion there is quite the dicussion and support behind it)

Almost all the streamers that were tone deaf were non healer mains which, to the surprise of nobody, don't talk shit because their income depends on being on SE and the toxic positive XIV community good side.

Once again this is a not us vs them, this is a collective of healers who are tired of our gameplay being the same of cookie clicker, especially when in the past we used to have much better gameplay and were able to do our duties as fine, if not better

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My experience was mostly on twitter, where I saw quite a few posts adverse to the strike. Some of them were rather rude about it, too.

I think the main issue with the strike itself is, from what I saw on Twitter was:

1. There are a lot of super-casual players who mostly enjoy socializing/modding their characters/glamor, who honestly don't want any increased difficulty or pressure on healers or the gameplay in general;
2. There are some newer players who actually find the game challenging because it's all new to them;
3. Most people aren't healer mains and don't want to be inconvenienced by the strike;
4. Some healer mains don't like playing the other jobs, like healing enough even if it's a bit dull, so will keep healing because that's why they play;
5. In-game awareness from people who don't visit XIV social media have no knowledge of the strike, or care enough about the game to do so.

So I think those are core issues with the strike. But, as an awareness-raising tool it's been an A+ effort. I'd have a hard time believing that the Dev's are unaware of this thread at this point.

I also find it surprising that people don't take more issues with the actual heals too. Those are pretty boring in their own right, mostly amounting to "Hit oGCD before/after damage occurs" with maybe a succor or a medica 2 if it's really spicy damage. My only other healing experience is WoW and oh buddy are those healing kits far more involved (and used far more cause there's more damage). Compare that to a Preservation Evoker:

https://i.imgur.com/OhgWevC.png

Night and day. And mind that in high end WoW content, you HAVE to make full use of your abilities to meet healing requirements.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

It's so surreal because the "call to action" of this strike is literally just "don't play healer if you don't like it", which is quite literally what people who think this thread is stupid have suggested us to do. So then if people do exactly that other people advocate they should get blacklisted.
Can't make this up.

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https://i.postimg.cc/TwbF3mXH/Strike.png

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

My experience was mostly on twitter, where I saw quite a few posts adverse to the strike. Some of them were rather rude about it, too.

I think the main issue with the strike itself is, from what I saw on Twitter was:

1. There are a lot of super-casual players who mostly enjoy socializing/modding their characters/glamor, who honestly don't want any increased difficulty or pressure on healers or the gameplay in general;
2. There are some newer players who actually find the game challenging because it's all new to them;
3. Most people aren't healer mains and don't want to be inconvenienced by the strike;
4. Some healer mains don't like playing the other jobs, like healing enough even if it's a bit dull, so will keep healing because that's why they play;
5. In-game awareness from people who don't visit XIV social media have no knowledge of the strike, or care enough about the game to do so.

So I think those are core issues with the strike. But, as an awareness-raising tool it's been an A+ effort. I'd have a hard time believing that the Dev's are unaware of this thread at this point.

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I personally can undertand those points (less so 1 because if there is not an increase in difficulty and just a diversification of actions the curebots aren't affected) but honestly I find extremely weird, if not selfish and toxic that people come trying to spread false information or try to mock the movement when all we want is simply to have fun.

But despite that is like you said, this movement is getting more talk about healers done in 10 days than 5 years of feedback which is great because at the core of this, all we want is the problems of the role to be acknowledged

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

Yes, it's definitely vitriolic in many places outside of this thread. I feel like that could change if efforts at outreach and communication were made, but who knows.

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The official FF forums is exactly the place for outreach and communication. Outreach to other places would be nice (though I can completely understand why people don't feel like placing themselves in another position where they'll be attacked over the strike, that happens enough in this thread already, and healers don't have endless energy and patience to deal with that), but I strongly disagree with the suggestion that healers that joined this thread are in any way responsible for toxic responses somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

I personally can undertand those points (less so 1 because if there is not an increase in difficulty and just a diversification of actions the curebots aren't affected) but honestly I find extremely weird, if not selfish and toxic that people come trying to spread false information or try to mock the movement when all we want is simply to have fun.

But despite that is like you said, this movement is getting more talk about healers done in 10 days than 5 years of feedback which is great because at the core of this, all we want is the problems of the role to be acknowledged

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I think about diversification of actions, the curebots you mentioned also are less likely to understand the strike, because they are already using their gcd heals a lot lol.

Gameplay wise even if they are just overhealing, they feel like healers.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

So I think those are core issues with the strike. But, as an awareness-raising tool it's been an A+ effort. I'd have a hard time believing that the Dev's are unaware of this thread at this point.

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Multiple streamers, online articles, multiplatform discussions and at least JP/NA/EU involvement. It would be pretty hard to not hear about it.

Naysayers can say it won't do anything, maybe it won't, but I'd say it's one of the largest attempt at a change request yet. In in end at least we can say we tried everything we could to get our point across, even through some ridiculous backlash. After that, it's in the devs hands. Personally, i'll be satisfied either way.

As a healer main, I don't think there's anything wrong enough with the role to start a strike.

I don't want more dps actions, we already have too many buttons. You wanna spice things up? Ask for a 123 combo compressed in one button then similar to DPS, but without so much dps (otherwise, you know, we'd be overstepping in THEIR territory too).
We ARE relevant and necessary in ALL content, not just endgame - or do all the random dps (and tanks too) you play with play so perfectly they don't make enough mistakes to not need a healer? Do you not think of the new players too? Mistakes that even experienced players make?

The healer job is supposed to HEAL, and it does a superb job at that.

Besides the complaints about class identity, perhaps, and WARs seeming to have a bit too much self-heal, I personally think this whole discussion is missing the point. It seems way blown out of proportion.

I just wanted to throw out there that I am a healer main and this strike does not speak for me.

Yoshi-P can't please everyone. I assure you that numerous metrics related to player engagement are being monitored as healers continue to be refined over time. It's not something worth getting bent out of shape over. Sometimes in life you just have to learn to roll with the punches

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Originally Posted by JimCasey_RF6

Yoshi-P can't please everyone. I assure you that numerous metrics related to player engagement are being monitored as healers continue to be refined over time. It's not something worth getting bent out of shape over. Sometimes in life you just have to learn to roll with the punches

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If they are balancing based on metrics (which is a silly idea but besides the point), then healers quitting en masse is the ideal way to get their attention.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

I agree. Mentioning it (almost) anywhere else has gotten "interesting" reactions.

Although, I've received rather hostile reactions on this thread, too, even though I like the topic. I suppose people are just angry and lashing out, even regardless of whether someone supports the idea.

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Yep, I popped into an r/ffxiv thread when someone in a sub-comment asked about the strike and the individual had previously been given several false or disingenuous replies. After a sincere attempt was made to be as neutral and respectful to educate the individual on the variety of issues that are part of the strike, I was told I'm wrong about the state of healing, my opinion and personal preferences on healing doesn't matter because I'm trying to exclude casuals, that I should "just play Savage", and finally that I should unsub if I don't like it.

The attitudes of the wider FFXIV community to being anti-constructive criticism isn't new, but by golly is it stale and exhausting at this point.

There will be angry responses on both camps. But for the most part, the angry supporters of the strike got fed up from all the gaslighting, and blatant disregard to the entirety of the movement when the detractors, themselves, avoid healing for the same reason that has been pointed out in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

I feel like what is most worrying are the people (especially progression groups) saying they are (or will, with the new Dawntrail updates) blacklist people showing support for this thread. I feel that could be at least a little concerning for anyone who doesn't have a solid group of friends to play with yet.

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I can't blame them honestly.
If people wants to prog a raid they might not want someone who might not (enjoy) take their role seriously if they aren't satisfied with what they currently got to play with.
They might see a Healer who support the strike (showing they aren't happy with healers) as a reliability in the group dynamic.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Surely there would be a counter thread with double the amount of likes if this statement was true?

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Originally Posted by JimCasey_RF6

Yoshi-P can't please everyone. I assure you that numerous metrics related to player engagement are being monitored as healers continue to be refined over time. It's not something worth getting bent out of shape over. Sometimes in life you just have to learn to roll with the punches

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A job rework is rolling with punches. Years of reworks compounded along with giving away the role to other jobs and nerfing the game difficulty are all collectively a deathblow to healers. You seem confused imo.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

I feel like what is most worrying are the people (especially progression groups) saying they are (or will, with the new Dawntrail updates) blacklist people showing support for this thread. I feel that could be at least a little concerning for anyone who doesn't have a solid group of friends to play with yet.

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That sounds pretty disgusting. I wouldn't mind looking at the psychology behind that decision just to understand how people could come to that conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

I agree. Mentioning it (almost) anywhere else has gotten "interesting" reactions.

Although, I've received rather hostile reactions on this thread, too, even though I like the topic. I suppose people are just angry and lashing out, even regardless of whether someone supports the idea.

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That is unfortunate. I do think most of the people who joined the discussion in good faith got a mostly normal response. But even a minority of toxic responses can leave a bad taste.

At this point this thread is a dumpster fire. Streamers have yapped about it and now their underlings have descended as though this game is some kind of esoteric science that not any one simpleton can grasp. Yet all the yapping streamers agree that the strike has valid points and Xenosys himself even agrees SE is driving the game into the ground.

Give healers some extra dps options, give us midcore content, nerf some sustains on non healer jobs. It's not really complicated. You don't need to run Ultimates to comprehend it. People are hiding behind experience because they just don't want to admit the game can improve.

And as far as it being called a strike...who cares? Don't participate. No one is forcing you to. Also attacking people and blacklisting people, especially this type of behavior coming from streamers who claim "You have no impact and nobody cares" only speaks to their immense fear of change that is all too expected of the core fossilized fanbase.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

Yes, I guess it's like Evergrey said, and that the progression groups might feel like someone who is "striking" would be a hindrance to the group somehow. But I've seen (you probably have, too) the people on discords saying they'll blacklist just because they think the whole topic is "stupid" or otherwise illegitimate, and for whatever reason they don't want to be associated with people supporting a "strike." It's wild how varied the reactions are.

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So first people said no one supporting the strike does hardcore content but now they think blacklisting will keep us from doing the content we do? Which is it? :D

I think the worst part is how these raiders continuously keep stalking Gemina's logs (and others) and immediately dismiss any claims without providing good argument -- especially non-main healer raiders who started in ShB.

This is why Yoshi-P will always be against fflogs and dps meters.