What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

To give my opinions on some things. I'm mostly fine with the 6.1 storyline I think. I do share people's concerns, though i cant help but derive some amusement for if the goal was to bury the ascians there not doing a good job of it since we are focusing on there mess ups.

But i dont think it's entirely mad science but more the easiest method or testing they have available to them (though i do find it odd/convenient that graha doesnt seem to offer much for how to travel to the other shards considering he did pull them there..) Plus its not like voidsent cant already be summoned.

But on another note, I hope they dont start to rewrite the echo or anything as anything vaguely attached to ancients will come off as "there rewriting it to make mommy look better"

And I feel people underestimate how easy it is to make a favorite character turn into a toxic dreg on the story, look at what happened to sylvanas

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Edit: I keep forgetting to mention if you haven't seen the new Lahabrea solo duty it's interesting. He basically effortlessly KOs the WoL, but then Hydaelyn revives you and gives you a power up to be able to defeat him. Obviously, I'm not keen on the Hydaelyn part, but I do like that they're consistent now with the WoL being easily defeated by the unsundered without significant assistance from outsiders.

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Damn, that's a much better fight sequence; and he's still said to be worn down. I assume Hydaelyn's intervention and him not taking a rest to recover properly from that is why he's weaker in ARF. So technically, that'd make him the first and one of the only characters to fell the WoL. Had a more powerful Ascian than Nabriales pursued them when the Blessing was gone, when she wasn't carrying the "bright little spark", it might've ended rather differently (at this point, I wish it had... :p) I'm curious as to whether they'll give him a fight in Pandaemonium - even if of the "oh no he's mind-controlled" variety - just to see him at his full strength.

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Originally Posted by PawPaw

Yep, assuming you're making the connection between twelve followers and "The Twelve", it's been speculation ever since that scene popped up in ShB. Yoshida said that their souls were entirely consumed by the creation of Hydaelyn, though, so if they are the gods then maybe they were created by her as some sort of weird "tribute".

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Part of me wonders if they're spontaneously summoned primals. The setting has some manner of collective memory or knowledge that survives in the Aetherial Sea, which Primals like Ramuh seemingly are able to draw upon - and apparently, Sephirot; this knowledge survives in souls in the form of dreams etc (questions 14 and 19 here touch on it). The notion of a wise and learned body of powerful specialists overseeing the world's affairs may have survived in that sense, and we know from Susano that spontaneous summons are possible. It may be why they genuinely are not beast tribe type primals and do not see themselves as such, but aren't "gods" (or at least not gods which are something other than man's creations), so much as summons of a kind. We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Edit: I keep forgetting to mention if you haven't seen the new Lahabrea solo duty it's interesting. He basically effortlessly KOs the WoL, but then Hydaelyn revives you and gives you a power up to be able to defeat him. Obviously, I'm not keen on the Hydaelyn part, but I do like that they're consistent now with the WoL being easily defeated by the unsundered without significant assistance from outsiders.

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Mankind must walk indeed. Or be carried in the arms of a winged goddess. At least he's less of a meme now.

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Originally Posted by Nilroreo

Wouldn't the fact that we're currently sundered imply that Azem didn't actually join them? The rest of her followers were consumed by Hydaelyn. Also, there's already dialogue that implies Azem ghosted everyone. "I had hoped that the defector, at least, would side with us, but I regret to report our overtures have gone unanswered."

Also I might be behind the curve, but upon reviewing that clip, I cant help but notice there's 12 Ancients just standing there with her...

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Those 12? Just well-wishers seeing off Venat as she alone sacrifices her flesh and soul to be the lone rebel of the evilbadboomer world order. Also, the Sundering was her stepping on Zodiark with a plushie squeak noise, then rainbows and Argos puppies flying out of the reality-cracks as the Ancients all suddenly see the light and agree with her philosophy and raise their arms to rejoice and cheer! :cool:

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Originally Posted by PawPaw

The response to this question in the LL was so ridiculous. If they have a plan for what Azem was canonically doing during the Final Days then just say "we can't speak about it, you'll find out later.". Saying "whatever you would be doing is what they would be doing" is like ????!!

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I wonder about that too for a couple of reasons. First, because the story of the sundering in ShB is different than what happened in EW. Second, because the only reason not to say what Azem is doing is either 1) because people want to think their Azem was working with Venat or 2) Azem was working with Venat but the divisive reception of her character made them retract it.

I've said before it bothers me that Azem not working with the Convocation is indisputable. This is made abundantly clear by Azem having been branded a traitor and Emet having had to create a memory crystal for them in secret.

Not so with Venat as the most we're told is Azem wouldn't respond to the outreach of her followers, which some have argued doesn't necessarily equate to a rejection. Plus, given the way they wrote her as the former Azem and mentor, it becomes a lot more questionable why Azem wouldn't have been colluding with her in some way.

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Originally Posted by Nilroreo

Wouldn't the fact that we're currently sundered imply that Azem didn't actually join them?

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You would think so, but there are plenty of people who believe their Azem willfully agreed to be sundered so that their future reincarnations could save the world. The writers certainly tried their best to make Venat and the WoL BFFs. I hate everything about it, but it's been a common take on Reddit and unfortunately the evidence Azem was against or even ignorant to Venat's plan isn't as concrete as it is with the Convocation.

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

Mankind must walk indeed. Or be carried in the arms of a winged goddess. At least he's less of a meme now.



Those 12? Just well-wishers seeing off Venat as she alone sacrifices her flesh and soul to be the lone rebel of the evilbadboomer world order. Also, the Sundering was her stepping on Zodiark with a plushie squeak noise, then rainbows and Argos puppies flying out of the reality-cracks as the Ancients all suddenly see the light and agree with her philosophy and raise their arms to rejoice and cheer! :cool:

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I think I'm just going to headcanon that everything after that Lahabrea killshot is a rabid fever dream. :p The WoL is 14's Squall now.

Sounds like some copium.

I do wonder at times if venat was a intentional attempt at emet but they missed what made emet so popular

And Venat kicked Emet's puppy as well!

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

And Venat kicked Emet's puppy as well!

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Clearly she was a Mentor. That makes it even worse.

But...yeah. I do understand the general dislike for Venat. Perhaps what separates me from those who dislike her is that I saw how things unfolded differently than some.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Clearly she was a Mentor. That makes it even worse.

But...yeah. I do understand the general dislike for Venat. Perhaps what separates me from those who dislike her is that I saw how things unfolded differently than some.

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Yes, some have expressed feeling a huge disconnect/dissonance between their own views and the "correct" view being pushed by the writers and developers, to the point where it destroyed any faith in the storytelling. Not just the handling of that one character, but how other story elements were thrown under the bus. Much like how your own faith was blown up by the entire catman hair situation and the huge disconnect there. One difference is that criticizing the gameplay and other elements is a little more acceptable than the story, which is held aloft as the main advertising point and "strength" of the game and has a sort of sacred cow status.

Between this and the reaction to some other things, maybe I should play my own game of "who will the devs anger next?" Bets? It's just getting funnier and funnier at this point.

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

Yes, some have expressed feeling a huge disconnect/dissonance between their own views and the "correct" view being pushed by the writers and developers, to the point where it destroyed any faith in the storytelling. Not just the handling of that one character, but how other story elements were thrown under the bus. Much like how your own faith was blown up by the entire catman hair situation and the huge disconnect there. One difference is that criticizing the gameplay and other elements is a little more acceptable than the story, which is held aloft as the main advertising point and "strength" of the game and has a sort of sacred cow status.

Between this and the reaction to some other things, maybe I should play my own game of "who will the devs anger next?" Bets? It's just getting funnier and funnier at this point.

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The biggest issue is that they pushed it being correct in a very 'world' way, like they set new rules into the story and world to FORCE a conclusion. Instead of making a conclusion be part of a personal character or group of characters. Meanwhile you could force a conclusion depending on the idea or theme but if it requires you to justify something many people find morally abhorrent you get into this situation. Even outside of ignoring the bad writing or convenient ignoring of past lore to justify venat to you

As i've said before, the difference between this and stormblood is that stormblood is just boring, elpis/venat actively retroactively fucks over tons of lore. And in all likelihood i cant imagine venat opinions getting better due to the fact that over time the new expansion honeymoon will end and thus more people will criticize her

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

And Venat kicked Emet's puppy as well!

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Oh don't be silly, Venat would never kick Emet's puppy, she sundered it.

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Originally Posted by Lucida3b

I do wonder at times if venat was a intentional attempt at emet but they missed what made emet so popular

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Not sure about that, but if that were the case then it would help for her actions to be consistent across the board. I believe Emet quickly endeared himself to most people by being an open book who rarely if ever lies despite having no obligation to help you, and even greets you by confirming right off the bat that while he still has every intention to cause the 8UC, he wont hinder your own plan to destroy the lightwardens. Meanwhile, as a result of what might be several retcons and shifts in story direction throughout the years, It seems like the writers accidentally portrayed Venat as a compulsive liar/manipulator. Even stranger is that her ideals weren't even imposed upon mankind indiscriminately.

Take her contingency plan for instance. Her moon ship was meant to Shepherd us to safety in the event that we failed to stop the final days, but that would’ve resulted in abandonment of the shards, essentially throwing everyone on them under the bus to save our skins. Considering how ready she was to incorporate Hermes’s ideology into her own, I find this decision to save us very out of character for her.

Reminder that this is the same person who ripped her own people to shreds when faced with the possibility that they might’ve eventually sacrificed innocent lives (Ironically ripping said innocent lives to shreds as well). Her contingency plan would’ve served as the very catalyst for our failure to pass their test, proving once and for all that we were no better than the ancients. Yet despite that, we were the ones granted the right to live past our failure. But why is that? C'mon Hydaelyn! bust out the o'l pizza cutter and eviscerate our souls! We deserve it lol! This is like a teacher handing us a cheat sheet for a quiz deliberately filled with wrong answers, then passing us anyways.

No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise…unless they’re sundered.

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

Yes, some have expressed feeling a huge disconnect/dissonance between their own views and the "correct" view being pushed by the writers and developers, to the point where it destroyed any faith in the storytelling. Not just the handling of that one character, but how other story elements were thrown under the bus. Much like how your own faith was blown up by the entire catman hair situation and the huge disconnect there. One difference is that criticizing the gameplay and other elements is a little more acceptable than the story, which is held aloft as the main advertising point and "strength" of the game and has a sort of sacred cow status.

Between this and the reaction to some other things, maybe I should play my own game of "who will the devs anger next?" Bets? It's just getting funnier and funnier at this point.

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That's fair. Believe me, I get it, even if I might not agree with everything that is being said here.

My assessment is as follows:

Thank goodness that it's the Void being pushed now instead of Meracydia. Good to see that the writers have pivoted away from the mystical land of kangaroos and hippotamuses. Thank goodness that we managed to retain Estinien and while Y'shtola is still an utterly stagnant character, at least she has begun to work on a goal and do something. I am hoping that rather than calling on the Scions again in patch 6.2 that instead they take the opportunity to finally introduce new party members.

After completing the patch we have the beginnings of a light party with ourselves, Y'shtola, Estinien, and Varshahn should they choose to give him a battle job. Given Vrtra's nature and personality I would not be surprised if he eventually became our healer, which leaves the matter of our tank. We will either be subjected to another expansion of Thancred's stagnation or be forced to put up with G'raha Tia being a general nuisance. Aymeric will not be joining us no matter how much I want to have an elven paladin on my team because he is too busy being a blue elephant terrorizing my new neighbourhood.

Or alternatively, in a completely unprecedented move, they could finally give us a new hero. When I think of a tank who will join us on our adventure into the void, I think of a hardened individual who likely has some kind of grudge against the voidsent, similar to how Estinien was during the Dragonsong War. As far as their appearance goes, I'm open to pretty much anything that does not resemble G'raha Tia. Ideally, I wish we could get someone like Vampire Hunter D but as an Au Ra in order to give off an imposing, dark vibe.

I am trying to remain optimistic about things regarding the 13th. With Garlemald's story dumped in the trash and nothing of interest remaining on the Source, by all means send us to the Void in 7.0. Short of another Heavensward, I suppose I can be content with this.

Going to try to make a quick post.
In response asking why Hydaelen saved Hades it's because the WoL would have died, TWICE, if she hadn't. Once through whatever Elidibus does and once before that through black rose; No Solus means no Zenos means blackrose doesn't get smashed = 8UC

In response to the spiral, it's a nautilus, a symbol of immortality and infinity in some cases. It definitely connects the Ancients to Sharlyan, or would have but it seems it was just scrapped. Sharlyan isn't sending out assassins anymore, so they're not really being as edgy as they once were perceived to be. Instead they're just a giant library with a starbucks. The spiral I though was also supposed to be the same one that's the underwrld...which I honestly though the underworld was going to be the last zone, where we get information from Hades. The character connected to it. Who really hasn't had any connection to it whatsoever other than side stories and pulling a cat out of it. I'm still in the belief they will do something about that, even if it's still beating a dead horse as people are wanting to call it. I'm in that line too. Wasted potential for the last zone of endwalker.

Royal family all dead? Did they even reveal the name of Varis's father?

Venat's codex entry was written by herself

The scions are tempered but they don't know and don't care to even consider it.

The shards are not planets, they're alternate dimensions. If they were planets then poor cat lady wouldn't need to figure out how to travel there when they have a SPACESHIP.

Not done with the patch, but I agree with Estinien about shoving Alphanaud through the void butthole. Throw his sister in there and seal it behind too.

It's been x amount of days and I'm still salty. Still hate endwalker. someone find a cure and fast.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Aymeric will not be joining us no matter how much I want to have an elven paladin on my team because he is too busy being a blue elephant terrorizing my new neighbourhood.

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I laughed way too much at this. My headcanon is Aymeric lost a bet with Estinien. I can't come up with a good reason for it otherwise. The bar for the junior writers is at an all time low if what I can expect going forward are serious characters in mascot costumes (see also Gaius). *sigh*

As for a new character, I'm still hoping against hope that Nerva had at least a child we don't know about yet. I hate the idea that the Solus line is gone. I don't necessarily care if they're male or female as long as they're in contrast to the Scions for a change. However, I do think we could stand to use more female, non-caster characters.

Frankly, if they're going to keep bringing side stories into the MSQ I wish they'd do the same for the DRK quest chain. I want to see my WoL struggle more with whether or not they're doing the right thing, being uncomfortable with what the Scions want them to do, feelings of wanting to escape it all, etc. Additionally, I'd like a new character who could be a friend to them in that way, someone who's not expecting them to be a hero or on the Scions' side of morality all the time. (This should have been done with the WoL regarding the Ancients.) DRK is the only job quest chain I was disappointed came to an end because I thought it explored some important aspects of the WoL's journey that don't get addressed in the MSQ. The level 30-50 arc particularly got to me.

So many Garlean characters have been introduced over the years that there's actually a good number just sitting around waiting to be used again. We could have had Nerva reluctantly approach the player character for aid and work to rally surviving Garleans to his side in order to help pick up the pieces and commit to reconstruction efforts.

The Ironworks would probably support such an effort now that the war is over. The crew of the Prima Vista could be reintroduced and would probably support such an effort. Jullus is right there twiddling his thumbs in the frozen train station and would almost certainly support such an effort...and then there's Gaius who could easily have deduced that maybe he can help nudge things back in his homeland in a better direction.

Who knows? Maybe that is what the general trajectory of a hypothetical reconstruction effort will involve but...it'd be really weird if 'yeah, some Garleans went to the moon but everyone else just stayed in the ruined city' is meant to be the conclusion to their story.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

So many Garlean characters have been introduced over the years that there's actually a good number just sitting around waiting to be used again.

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Man, I’m still bummed out the Ivalice stuff is just put on indefinite hold. They address the inevitable downfall of Garlemald during the Bozja stuff, while propping up Noah as someone who will salvage it and pull an even grander nation out of its ashes, only for everything to suddenly just stop, with Noah being assassinated… or something in supplemental material. His story could've at least served as an excuse to have a proper Othard expansion and cover regions we've missed in Stormblood.

That’s a good thought actually. Yeah they could have very easily used that storyline to let us explore regions in the far east we may have never been able to or even get to at this rate. Such a major shame. I was so looking forward to meeting with Noah as well, seeing how he would react to us, maybe he’d persuade us to join his cause?Wouldve been an interesting exchange for sure.

So, having recently delved into the bizarre landscape that is Twitter I happened to be directed to some rather interesting finds. Since some people seem to be insisting that there is absolutely no way for there to be potential bias involved in the handling of the game's script and localisation, here's a gem to whet people's appetites:

https://i.imgur.com/rKfFd2u.png

Source: https://twitter.com/BorgedFlan

Each to their own, I suppose, since everybody is certainly entitled to their own personal takes on the story even if they work for Square Enix...though I have to say that I think it's rather bizarre to see someone in charge of 'Quality Assurance' for localisation to be operating under the belief that Venat's genocide of her own people was the equivalent of her getting frustrated at being the only one working to protect Etheirys.

We know that isn't true simply at looking what was revealed during both Shadowbringers and Endwalker. To say nothing, of course, of Venat's refusal to even inform her people of the plight she was hoping to avoid.

Following on from this, the profile for Koji Fox's alleged successor happened to enter my Twitter feed as well:

https://twitter.com/fabulafatua/

I was quite shocked to see some of the things being 'liked' and retweeted by the individual in question and I must confess to finding myself wondering as a humble Scottish guy if someone so very deeply involved in the deepest reaches of the Twitter sphere is truly a good fit for someone who is meant to represent more than just Far Left ideologues where the game's English localisation is concerned. Not all of us are obsessed with identity politics, after all and even many LGBT people - myself included - are deeply troubled by those with a perpetual chip atop their shoulders perpetually directed at anyone who doesn't think, act or look like they do. I want to highlight that I do not post this with the intention to name and shame but merely to seek clarification and raise awareness about potential bias seeping into the localisation process.

Yeah, if we're going to start hunting down and trying to name and shame individual people on the team because we don't like their politics and personal views expressed on social media or whatever? Sorry. Count me out, hard. That's a line crossed. Get out of here with that nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Theox

This is so embarrassing and so American at the same time. Americans always think the whole world revolves around them and their social issues they constantly push on everyone else.

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Exactly who is the one pushing social issues into this thread right now, though?

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Exactly who is the one pushing social issues into this thread right now, though?

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It took one post for an American to remind us that voting for trump is bad and if you did then you hate gay people and also trans people and you're bad! This hyperfixation on specific themes is literally a pattern I see everywhere.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Exactly who is the one pushing social issues into this thread right now, though?

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The same people who claim to have a problem with idpol when someone's identity is one of the main things that gets them concerned about someone's work, of course!

6.1 impressions:

Golbez is cool. Glad they're doing something with Zenos' Avatar. Not happy with the Scions continuing to be focus characters, except maybe Estinien because we haven't really gotten enough of him yet. Otherwise, I do not care.

Hey, guys, what's go-floor on fire gif that no one knows the name of here

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I do not post this with the intention to name and shame but merely to seek clarification and raise awareness about potential bias seeping into the localisation process.

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Nice edit, but "my intention in doing the bad thing was not to do the bad thing" is some, shall we say, Venat tier logic. Once again, get out of here with that nonsense. Better yet, delete your terrible post and then get out of here.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

Better yet, delete your terrible post and then get out of here.

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Don't like it, hit the ignore button. He's under no obligation to delete his post because you don't like it, nor is he under any obligation to "get out of here".

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Don't like it, hit the ignore button. He's under no obligation to delete his post because you don't like it, nor is he under any obligation to "get out of here".

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Yes, I suppose he has the right to be as ugly a person as he likes and fall into individual targeting of the devs to continue his ongoing surety of the far left conspiracy "seeping" into this game, as you are free to auto-defend what he posted while sidestepping it's content entirely. Cool story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Don't like it, hit the ignore button. He's under no obligation to delete his post because you don't like it, nor is he under any obligation to "get out of here".

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Firmly agreed.

It isn't my intention to cause strife. I am simply raising awareness of a potential hiccup in the localisation process. I have very little interest in identity politics especially when they are only ever applied on a very selective basis. At the end of the day, the English localisation is meant to include and appeal to European players as well.

I also must confess to raising an eyebrow at some of the same posters previously dragging identity politics into their posts and arguments - as well as doing deep dives into the Twitter profiles of various employees at the company/guest creators - now turning around to state that it is apparently some deep red line in the sand that cannot ever be crossed.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Hey, guys, what's go-floor on fire gif that no one knows the name of here

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Community's darkest timeline gif?

https://c.tenor.com/lVz-gGL3Ne0AAAAM/the-darkest.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theox

It took one post for an American to remind us that voting for trump is bad and if you did then you hate gay people and also trans people and you're bad! This hyperfixation on specific themes is literally a pattern I see everywhere.

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They said this to a person who literally introduced unrelated Twitter posts to bring up complaints about the Far Left. I think the argument of "who wants to remind us what political ideology is bad" was already well underway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brinne

Yes, I suppose he has the right to be as ugly a person as he likes and fall into individual targeting of the devs to continue his ongoing surety of the far left conspiracy "seeping" into this game, as you are free to auto-defend what he posted while sidestepping it's content entirely. Cool story.

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Much as you are to auto-defend those Twitter accounts because they happen to align with your views. ;)

Yeah there's me deleting my posts from this thread. Regardless of my misgivings with this plot, fuck this shit. Some lines don't get crossed.
Be better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It isn't my intention to cause strife. I am simply raising awareness of a potential hiccup in the localisation process.

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The torrent of Venat tier logic and refusal to take responsibility continues. I guess it can't be helped once one has gone full mask off. By all means, keep "raising your eyebrows" because you're mad because SE isn't performing political background checks for their individual employees to suit your fancy.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Much as you are to auto-defend those Twitter accounts because they happen to align with your views. ;)

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I didn't say a single thing about the Twitter accounts, the people in it, or their content. Raking through an individual's retweets and likes and then posting them to stir up outrage on a thread that was critical anyway? Please. We're not all idiots or Theodric's friends who must rush to defend his posts, no matter how pathetic.

You're welcome to take whatever stance on the matter you so wish. I certainly don't make posts for the sake of any given individual's personal approval.

Multiple people have been linking to the Twitter accounts of the likes of Ishikawa and Matsuno, as well as specific Tweets and interviews that they have made. Nothing was said then, though suddenly it is a 'no go' when it comes to localisation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

You're welcome to take whatever stance on the matter you so wish. I certainly don't make posts for the sake of any given individual's personal approval.

Multiple people have been linking to the Twitter accounts of the likes of Ishikawa and Matsuno, as well as specific Tweets and interviews that they have made. Nothing was said then, though suddenly it is a 'no go' when it comes to localisation.

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Stop being disengenous. People referred to Matsuno and Ishikawa's tweets when they were responding directly to questions asked about their work on the game. We didn't go hunting through their likes to gain ammo for evidence of the FAR LEFT CONSPIRACY or "identity politics". But yes, you didn't mean to do a little Sundering, you meant well, you swear! We know, we know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Community's darkest timeline gif?

https://c.tenor.com/lVz-gGL3Ne0AAAAM/the-darkest.gif

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That's it, yeah, thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

You're welcome to take whatever stance on the matter you so wish. I certainly don't make posts for the sake of any given individual's personal approval.

Multiple people have been linking to the Twitter accounts of the likes of Ishikawa and Matsuno, as well as specific Tweets and interviews that they have made. Nothing was said then, though suddenly it is a 'no go' when it comes to localisation.

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'Grabbing tweets and interview questions which they made in direct response to people in a public context.' = 'Hunting down unaffiliated and unrelated people's content from other parts of Twitter as proof of agendas being at play.'
Okay Thatcher.

Things got...weird in here since I last looked. But yeah, let's not try to inject real world politics into this whole situation

Just because some members of the localization team have extremely hot takes against the people who didn't like certain elements of EW's story doesn't mean there's some conspiracy going on.