#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evergrey

"All publicity is good publicity."

---

Quoting "Art of the Deal" now? :D

I wonder if we will get a statement from Yoshi-P about his thoughts on the controversy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aiqa

My own favorite healer WHM will have 4 damage buttons for single target in DT. WHich should be enough to remove the feeling of using only Glare. People who don't want complex rotations already have to deal with those 4 buttons, but the buttons are implemented in a way that gives very little variation. For some reason the FF devs decided to make a system where Dia is only needed once every 30 seconds, Missery every 1 minute at most, and the new DT damage buttons every 2 minutes (3 times). So in between those huge cooldowns and DoT duration, you're just back to Glare spam.

---

WHM is my favorite Job in the game. I really wish Holy was usable in single target rotations. The action is a FF staple after all. If Glare IV wasn’t locked behind a 120sec ability, lower Dia’s DoT timer, and we can use Holy on boss / raid fights, that would solve WHM’s dps rotation. No additional dps buttons are needed.

The healing kit is great, though most abilities aren’t used much due to low damage output in all forms of content, which needs to be addressed. Despite my complaints about WHM dps, I want to heal more too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by currentlemon

WHM is my favorite Job in the game. I really wish Holy was usable in single target rotations. The action is a FF staple after all. If Glare IV wasn’t locked behind a 120sec ability, lower Dia’s DoT timer, and we can use Holy on boss / raid fights, that would solve WHM’s dps rotation. No additional dps buttons are needed.

The healing kit is great, though most abilities aren’t used much due to low damage output in all forms of content, which needs to be addressed. Despite my complaints about WHM dps, I want to heal more too.

---

Exactly, the changes we are asking for are so minimal

Make glare 4 proc off every 5 glares, have glare 4 have a 40% chance to generate a “diacloud” proc then give back aero 3 on its old 18 second timer and WHM would be literally flawless

We aren’t asking for the moon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Exactly, the changes we are asking for are so minimal

Make glare 4 proc off every 5 glares, have glare 4 have a 40% chance to generate a “diacloud” proc then give back aero 3 on its old 18 second timer and WHM would be literally flawless

We aren’t asking for the moon

---

Got any ideas to include Holy into WHM’s single target rotation? I’m thinking that it’d combo off of the 3 Glare IV’s used after PoM. Sort of like a finisher. Maybe get a buff that would allow apply a DoT effect on the NPC when Holy is used.

As for Aero III, have it be reintroduced as a weaker version of Glare IV at the early levels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by currentlemon

Got any ideas to include Holy into WHM’s single target rotation? I’m thinking that it’d combo off of the 3 Glare IV’s used after PoM. Sort of like a finisher. Maybe get a buff that would allow apply a DoT effect on the NPC when Holy is used.

As for Aero III, have it be reintroduced as a weaker version of Glare IV at the early levels.

---

That’s probably how I would do it, something like if glare 4 comes from 5 glare 3’s then POM could empower holy and holy becomes a gain on single target that you could use three of then that would trigger an empowered finisher

So empowered holy (sort of like how holy might works on PLD) takes the current place of glare 4, and glare 4 becomes a button that you press every 20 seconds or so and can proc diacloud’s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Somnolence

Quoting "Art of the Deal" now? :D

---

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/10...dd440969bb.png

The hardest content in the game mandates the use of all healer cooldowns.
Easy content is easier than hard content.
So easy content doesn't need all healer cooldowns.

What a simple argument. What are you asking for here exactly? Go do hard content that requires healers to heal. Or don't, not my buisness. Thread is full of people who only do easy content complaining that it is easy. Do hard content then. You don't want to? Great, but that's a personal choice, and you can't really complain when you don't take the hard content offered to you which actually does require healers to heal.

Incredibly, they actually haven't made easy content easy enough yet since plenty of y'all are still single pulling and ypyt'ing. Please look forward to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BunnyQueen

I wonder if we will get a statement from Yoshi-P about his thoughts on the controversy.

---

Yoshi P: lol go play Ultimate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capstone

What are you asking for here exactly? Go do hard content that requires healers to heal. Or don't, not my buisness. Thread is full of people who only do easy content complaining that it is easy. Do hard content then.

---

I did some savage and was still spamming the one damage button most of the time. Where do I get to use GCD heals?

I think my "Be careful what you wish for" still stands. Those duties, granted during a period where people had less to their kit, were a result of people asking for challenges.

I know sure as heck I on war cannot keep 2 let alone 3 dps alive if the healer dies/is not in duty, and that's me knowing my kit. I can maybe do it on pld, but that's reliant on dps not standing in bad multiple times, and I am more skilled in Pld than I am on War.

Yes I admit that some content could be more challanging now, but not to the extent that a tank's kit needs to be nerfed.

Yes Xeno said he was sloppy on that run, but him sloppy on that run, he still is skilled. If I was sloppy on that run, people would die.

Let's be real there's like no healer main streamers so they obviously don't care. To them this is content to consume and entertain their audience we won't get anything interesting out of them for the conversation. YouTubers are different ones who discuss the game will probably have far more of an actual opinion and points.
It's just the differences in the hustle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuraflareRising

Yes Xeno said he was sloppy on that run, but him sloppy on that run, he still is skilled. If I was sloppy on that run, people would die.

---

You can learn to play warrior and become immortal in dungeons within an hour or two. Literally it's just cycling cooldowns something you should know as a tank by level 90 it's really not that hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ramiee

Let's be real there's like no healer main streamers so they obviously don't care. To them this is content to consume and entertain their audience we won't get anything interesting out of them for the conversation. YouTubers are different ones who discuss the game will probably have far more of an actual opinion and points.
It's just the differences in the hustle.

---

Aitherea is a healer main and she made an interesting video imo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI_z9yVIvZY

Xeno has played MMOs for years so he is still skilled even without his usual gaming mouse and keybinds.

That said I imagine Healer spec might be more engaging if they had WAR/BLU kit of very few but powerful Healing options and the rest is all DPS/Utility.

BLU has only 8-10 healing actions and the rest is just DPS or Utility.

Warrior has even less then BLU and both make for great and versatile Jobs that fit an All-Purpose Neapolitan Role that can do it all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

That said I imagine Healer spec might be more engaging if they had WAR/BLU kit of very few but powerful Healing options and the rest is all DPS/Utility.

---

I've told so many healer mains and tank mains which are bored to play blu. It's literally support with mechanics.
If anyone wants to still heal but wants to go on the healer strike play blu healer instead and run old hard content, you'll have so much fun. Even if it takes a while to get your blu levelling and skill acquisition done it's worth it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Xeno has played MMOs for years so he is still skilled even without his usual gaming mouse and keybinds.

That said I imagine Healer spec might be more engaging if they had WAR/BLU kit of very few but powerful Healing options and the rest is all DPS/Utility.

BLU has only 8-10 healing actions and the rest is just DPS or Utility.

Warrior has even less then BLU and both make for great and versatile Jobs that fit an All-Purpose Neapolitan Role that can do it all.

---

One is a limited job that gets a healer spec, other is a TANK.

A DRK main here.


I was reading the thread, My personal impression as a tank main, at least, is that some complaints are certainly valid, Especially, the WAR one. War is far too busted in the self sustain department, and I wish either for a hefty nerf or DRK to be buffed. How they achieve it, I don't care. I just want the level to be equalised a little as I feel DRK being a tad frail when it comes to certain content, which is probably something healer mains approve of? Appreciate, I guess? As we give them some work to do, or not. Who knows. I don't know the other side that well to call a judgement.


Anyway, I got the impression from some people here in the thread that dungeons are basically brain dead content and two or three heals see any tank through. With the consequence that they have barely any work to do and barely have to sue their full healing kit, which is why the healers call now for a damage increase to make them relevant again or an actual DPS rotation worth its salt.


Granted, I don't know how these people run their content. And granted I am a casual here and basically dungeon peasant, which I find fun to run, but these views don't align with my experience.


At least, from my impression, some healers have quite a hard time. One, two or three heals and some mitigation don't cut it. It can be quite sticky at times. And from time to time, I bite the dust for being a bit too eager.


I might be wrong here, but I don't get the impression from a tank perspective like there is nothing to do for healers despite the claims dungeons being brain dead content. It runs counter to my experience.


Even in lower level dungeons, which I enjoy honestly at times with how hectic they can be. Especially, with some sproutier parties. Like Satasha. Brayflox. Quarn. Cutters Cry. Stone Vigil. Darkhold. Aurum.


But as said, I am a tank. I can only relate my side. I don't know the healer side. That is why I wonder, am I wrong and a bad player or are the healers here in the thread just better skill wise or do they have a different experience? I frankly don't know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

I did some savage and was still spamming the one damage button most of the time. Where do I get to use GCD heals?

---

Harrowing hell and jwaves for sure. Pretty normal in Wroth flames. Generally some in DKT's mechs too. WC2. Friction I guess? Probably a good idea in downtime too, like the end of wormhole. Have you done any of these mechanics?

Speaking of simple arguments. If a Tank can heal themselves, or the party, the same or better than a healer, the roles are homogenized.

I feel like 80% of people in this thread will just queue healer regardless when expac launches because the DPS queues will be 20 or so minutes long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capstone

Harrowing hell and jwaves for sure. Pretty normal in Wroth flames. Generally some in DKT's mechs too. WC2. Friction I guess? Probably a good idea in downtime too, like the end of wormhole. Have you done any of these mechanics?

---

So I would get to use a handful of GCD heals during a few mechanics in an entire expansion which lasts 2 years? Do you not see a problem with that? I'm asking what content type I can spend time in where I get to GCD heal the majority of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capstone

Harrowing hell and jwaves for sure. Pretty normal in Wroth flames. Generally some in DKT's mechs too. WC2. Friction I guess? Probably a good idea in downtime too, like the end of wormhole. Have you done any of these mechanics?

---

Yes I have, those mechanics may ask you to use a few GCDs, less if you optimize.

Now you wanna know what we do for the all remaining minutes of those fights? Wanna know what we do with the over 140 Gcds we have left? Do you wanna know what we do in fights that don't have those mechanics?

I'll give you a hint, it starts with 2 and is followed by several presses of 1.

And now an extra question, why is fair that healers are forced to being boring for the majority of content but tanks and dps dont?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ramiee

I've told so many healer mains and tank mains which are bored to play blu. It's literally support with mechanics.
If anyone wants to still heal but wants to go on the healer strike play blu healer instead and run old hard content, you'll have so much fun. Even if it takes a while to get your blu levelling and skill acquisition done it's worth it.

---

I mean you could tell them to play Criterion, too, if they want a challenge.

The problem right now is that healers--and even tanks--is a conflict of interest between Character Progression and Engaging Gameplay.

In other others, there's no real way to progress your character's gearscore or tomestones in a meaningful manner that isn't either extremely difficult and requiring a lot of prep (from a casual player's perspective: your statics, or ultimates, or whatever), or isn't completely braindead (your Expert Roulettes, Treasure Maps, even your Normal Raids aren't too tough after like week 2).

For the latter, which is a good deal of the community, it means you're basically sleepwalking through your role. If you're a tank though, at least you get a 1, 2 ,3. You get nice burst in the case of WAR and GNB, and you can even help out with Interject. In a way, it's a great "learning" class because you don't need to master all your buttons at once. You have a far less complicated rotation, but there's still plenty to do and get better at.

Healers, on the other hand, have the problem where their DPS kits were removed. They're ONLY hitting like three buttons to DPS, and never at the same time: your DoT every 30 seconds, your AoE, and your single target cast. If you're Scholar, you have the BONUS of an instant cast on the move! And you can apply a debuff to the boss once every minute! Huuuuuuge! Too many one of those is every minute and the other one basically replaces your Broil cast.

You really need to actually heal once in a blue moon to understand this: if you're in a position where you're not healing, which is most of the time, you're otherwise spamming one button. Constantly. For a good 6-15 minutes.

Does that sound fun to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ramiee

I've told so many healer mains and tank mains which are bored to play blu. It's literally support with mechanics.
If anyone wants to still heal but wants to go on the healer strike play blu healer instead and run old hard content, you'll have so much fun. Even if it takes a while to get your blu levelling and skill acquisition done it's worth it.

---

BLU raids are fun, but they are 1-2 expansions behind and once you've done them there's very little reason to do them again.
SE also didn't give BLU any meaningful reward in level 70 and 80 updates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Someone made a post over in JP … screwed up.

---

With how the abyssos dps check was received and the correction for anabaseios, I don’t think it’s going to be an issue until r7s/r8s (or a19s/a20s, I’m unsure what they’re going to be referred to as). 700 potency under chain is already pushing 800 without factoring in any other raid buffs.

The 10% scholar in the data post being so broil heavy could well be in part due to the required damage to clear and how irrecoverable mechanics have been.

It’s just so weird that there would be this much necessary focus on healers doing damage while ensuring that it is so unengaging. It also seems to be a nightmare to balance on the design end, I just can’t fathom why they would do it this way. The margin to hit a challenging but attainable dps check for the cohort just seems vanishingly slim - how can a drifted buff be quantified in the development calculations?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

So I would get to use a handful of GCD heals during a few mechanics in an entire expansion which lasts 2 years? Do you not see a problem with that? I'm asking what content type I can spend time in where I get to GCD heal the majority of the time.

---

I'll take that as a no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

Yes I have, those mechanics may ask you to use a few GCDs, less if you optimize.

Now you wanna know what we do for the all remaining minutes of those fights? Wanna know what we do with the over 140 Gcds we have left? Do you wanna know what we do in fights that don't have those mechanics?

I'll give you a hint, it starts with 2 and is followed by several presses of 1.

And now an extra question, why is fair that healers are forced to being boring for the majority of content but tanks and dps dont?

---

It's whatever you make of it. I find week 1 prog healing to be very fun. Reclearing is more dull to be sure but it's dull on every job--opinion me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capstone

I'll take that as a no.

---

Looks like you are admitting there is no content in the game where healers are not spamming one damage button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flay_wind

BLU raids are fun, but they are 1-2 expansions behind and once you've done them there's very little reason to do them again.
SE also didn't give BLU any meaningful reward in level 70 and 80 updates.

---

If only I could do Criterion as BLU for the BLU weapon instead of being locked out of it. UGH

But hey at least I can solo farm Treasure Map Dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

Looks like you are admitting there is no content in the game where healers are not spamming one damage button.

---

Don't know what you're talking about. I asked if you'd ever done any of the mechs listed and you went on a tangent instead of answering. So I'll take your answer as a no. This is not meant to be dismissive--but if we can't talk about the intricacies of resource planning and management before during and after, say, jwaves, then we're just speaking different languages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assur

I was reading the thread, My personal impression as a tank main, at least, is that some complaints are certainly valid, Especially, the WAR one. War is far too busted in the self sustain department, and I wish either for a hefty nerf or DRK to be buffed. How they achieve it, I don't care. I just want the level to be equalised a little as I feel DRK being a tad frail when it comes to certain content, which is probably something healer mains approve of? Appreciate, I guess? As we give them some work to do, or not. Who knows. I don't know the other side that well to call a judgement.

---

The part of complaints from healers that focusses on tank sustain isn't a blanket "tanks should have as little heals as possible". It's about the devs mostly ignoring healers, seemingly perfectly happy to let tanks take over the healer role, and then doubling down on that direction in DT. There is a lot of wiggle room between no self and teamheals on tanks, and the point where that starts to invalidate the healer role. And those complaints specifically target the tank jobs actually do that; WAR and PLD a close second. I haven't seen a single healer complaining about DRK sustain in this thread, and fully agree tanks shouldn't feel fragile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capstone

Don't know what you're talking about. I asked if you'd ever done any of the mechs listed and you went on a tangent instead of answering. So I'll take your answer as a no. This is not meant to be dismissive--but if we can't talk about the intricacies of resource planning and management before during and after, say, jwaves, then we're just speaking different languages.

---

Do you spend more time on GCD healing or GCD damage spells over the whole duration of those specific fights? I have done other savage bosses and would like to know the answer to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aiqa

The part of complaints from healers that focusses on tank sustain isn't a blanket "tanks should have as little heals as possible". It's about the devs mostly ignoring healers, seemingly perfectly happy to let tanks take over the healer role, and then doubling down on that direction in DT. There is a lot of wiggle room between no self and teamheals on tanks, and the point where that starts to invalidate the healer role. And those complaints specifically target the tank jobs actually do that; WAR and PLD a close second. I haven't seen a single healer complaining about DRK sustain in this thread, and fully agree tanks shouldn't feel fragile.

---

The generalizing issue is that there is nothing interesting to do when the "healing" part of the healer job has been solved. Having tanks with strong sustain only aggravates that issue since it naturally makes the healing part quicker to solve and leaves healers with nothing but their DPS kits ,witch are as barren and simple as they could be.

If our filler dps kits were satisfying, nobody would be mad at the tanks for removing healing time from healer roles. (well maybe just the people that want to play as heal bots)

I am not criticising here or objecting. I am just curious. Because mainly as a dungeon clearer as a DRK, I feel the need for a healer acutely. People say here that healers are not needed and that their role is made obsolete in easy as well as in hard content. I cannot agree with this statement. As a DRK, WAR is a completely different story, I can't clear even a normal dungeon without them. I need them. I depend on them. Otherwise, I die if they mess up. For me, you healers are essential, and I am glad to have one at my side.

And I feel differences in quality depending on the healers in question. There are more skilled ones. There are less skilled ones. They influence how I run my dungeon. But even with the skill ones, I have the impression that they quite the handful to do and often put to the test, which is why I ask.

Because I don't know the modus operandi of those who say their role is invalidated in dungeon clears, and they are just reduced to one button DPS spam. I don't see this reality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assur

Anyway, I got the impression from some people here in the thread that dungeons are basically brain dead content and two or three heals see any tank through. With the consequence that they have barely any work to do and barely have to sue their full healing kit, which is why the healers call now for a damage increase to make them relevant again or an actual DPS rotation worth its salt.

---

Or just more challenging content. I think many if not most healers want to...uhh...heal. Having a better DPS rotation is sort of a "well, if you're not gonna make encounters where we actually have to focus on healing as our main activity/priority then at least give us something engaging to do while DPSing instead of hitting two buttons."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assur

Granted, I don't know how these people run their content. And granted I am a casual here and basically dungeon peasant, which I find fun to run, but these views don't align with my experience.

At least, from my impression, some healers have quite a hard time. One, two or three heals and some mitigation don't cut it. It can be quite sticky at times. And from time to time, I bite the dust for being a bit too eager.

---

Emphasis mine. Have you ever thought about how the very concept of wall-pulling (your "eagerness" here) is an invalidation of the healer role? Damage is so inconsequential that it's standard practice for tanks to pull literally every possible mob they can and have the group just AoE everything down with no thought. In fact, most groups will get irritated with you if you don't wall-pull. Your experience is colored by this status quo, and the "issues" you're having with healers actually having to heal are probably because you're having healers who aren't synced to crap (newer players, people leveling healer jobs and aren't mega-geared, etc.).

In short, the game has devalued healing to such a severe extent that the gameplay meta assumes healing is not needed - and when it is (your "eager" instances) it's considered a flaw in the healer, not the meta. That's the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assur

I don't see this reality.

---

So this basically means that if you get randomly paired with players that know their kits and avoid damage your class/role gets reduced to a 1 button spam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GrimGale

The generalizing issue is that there is nothing interesting to do when the "healing" part of the healer job has been solved. Having tanks with strong sustain only aggravates that issue since it naturally makes the healing part quicker to solve and leaves healers with nothing but their DPS kits ,witch are as barren and simple as they could be.

If our filler dps kits were fun nobody would be mad at the tanks for removing healing time from healer roles.

---

I don't agree with that. There are multiple issues with the healer role, listed quite well in the manifesto in the opening post of this thread. Just tweaking the damage buttons is not enough. There are even people who are perfectly fine with the damage buttons, but still support the strike because they are concerned about the other points.

DRK does need a healer to clear a dungeon efficiently, TBN is good but it doesn't max your HP + Mitigate 15~% + do your laundry + spot heal the Dragoon.

DRK also has no answer to healing raidwides, because why would they? WAR sure does though just shake it off. Even still DRK has all the power they need to wall pull dungeons and solo boss fights so what the hell is WAR doing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amity_Roji

Or just more challenging content. I think many if not most healers want to...uhh...heal. Having a better DPS rotation is sort of a "well, if you're not gonna make encounters where we actually have to focus on healing as our main activity/priority then at least give us something engaging to do while DPSing instead of hitting two buttons."


Emphasis mine. Have you ever thought about how the very concept of wall-pulling (your "eagerness" here) is an invalidation of the healer role? Damage is so inconsequential that it's standard practice for tanks to pull literally every possible mob they can and have the group just AoE everything down with no thought. In fact, most groups will get irritated with you if you don't wall-pull. Your experience is colored by this status quo, and the "issues" you're having with healers actually having to heal are probably because you're having healers who aren't synced to crap (newer players, people leveling healer jobs and aren't sync'd to hell, etc.).

In short, the game has devalued healing to such a severe extent that the gameplay meta assumes healing is not needed - and when it is (your "eager" instances) it's considered a flaw in the healer, not the meta. That's the problem.

---

I am not sure how wall pulling is devaluating the healer’s role. Unless you are WAR, doest it put more strain and responsibility on the healer? Without a healer, I as a DRK would certainly not survive my pulls in a satisfying manner, so I see them as quintessential to my approach, unable to do without them. But that is, admittedly, a tank’s perspective. And it might not be that challenging enough for your healers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

Do you spend more time on GCD healing or GCD damage spells over the whole duration of those specific fights? I have done other savage bosses and would like to know the answer to that.

---

The flaw with this line of reasoning is that the existence of filler doesn't negate the existence of non-filler. The healer identity (To me--This is an opinion of course) isn't Dia and Glare; it's Temperance and Pulse of Life.

The tanks I know feel awesome when they sink a huge buster or nail some tight invuln timing. It would be much more dull to them if they had the ability and the need to do that every GCD. DPS players pop off when they get a huge crit in their 2-minute, or execute some niche optimization. Why then should healers object to doing filler between mechanics?

It's what you make of it. I've met many people who have tried healer but found it dull because it wasn't a caster dps. That's a fine opinion--the world needs more red mages!

The point of the thread is that you can 1/0/3 a dungeon (we have been doing this for years not sure why people care now tbh). My view is merely "of course you don't need healers for dungeons. But they feel great to execute when actually stressed." No, that is not every gcd. If you wish it was, probably you will have more fun playing dps. And that's perfectly fine, we need dps players.

Are there problems with the healer role? Sure! But there's problems with every role and every job. Going on a strike because you can 1/0/3 some baby mode content is, however, laughable.