Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarretWallace

i am gonna lmao when BLU goes live and the solo content gives the community something so fresh and unexpected that when the lv cap goes up and the devs keep tracking the job and balancing it for endgame content and them BOOM blu can queue for df and raids and naysayers are left speechless for a few nanoseconds trying to parse out all the Azure blooded goodnes of the new caster on the block.

(Head Butt) (Do you have it?)

---

And we'll gladly see it that way when it happens. Until then, no interest (or remote/moderate) for people primarily attracted to raiding and endgame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karshan

And we'll gladly see it that way when it happens. Until then, no interest (or remote/moderate) for people primarily attracted to raiding and endgame.

---

Don't forget pvp and deep dungeons. Possibly more according to the disclaimer in their slide during Fan Fest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarretWallace

i am gonna lmao when BLU goes live and the solo content gives the community something so fresh and unexpected that when the lv cap goes up and the devs keep tracking the job and balancing it for endgame content and them BOOM blu can queue for df and raids and naysayers are left speechless for a few nanoseconds trying to parse out all the Azure blooded goodnes of the new caster on the block.

(Head Butt) (Do you have it?)

---

I wouldn't call BLU fresh since it's using quite a bit of 11's framework (we still don't know where BLU's traits are coming from) and the Carnival is using traditional FF rules. Nor it is unexpected to a degree since Yoshi said this is how he saw adding BLU years ago. Doesn't mean I'm saying people can't be excited though. I hope one day to be excited about BLU along with you.

As for the rest of what you said, plenty of us "naysayers" are wanting there to be a separate BLU in some manner that is balanced for the full game and to leave limited BLU as is. So if that were to happen, there would be no scrambling to get caught up. It would just be learning how a new job functions.

Ya know...you guys ought to check the recent interview on Reddit. Yoshida explicitly explains why BLU couldn't be in XIV at first.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

Here's an excerpt from the interview that I believe is important, quoted from Yoshida himself:

"If we were to implement BLU as a normal job, there would be restrictions like "I can't raid until i learn all my new moves" or "I can't go to dungeons because i haven't learned those AoEs". You might think "I'm fine with that" at first, but you have to do that for every expansion. Everyone else is farming while you are learning to get to the startline, and it ends up being just annoying. Then what happens? The world fist teams won't use BLU. That doesn't mean we can just let BLUs have magic with extremely tilted synergies, because then BLU just becomes mandatory. If we are put in that situation where BLU has to be treated as a normal job, you won't be able to play BLU the way it's supposed to be fun."

This explanation tells us quite a bit about why BLU can't be brought into the raid scene. Let alone, there's more in the interview saying how difficult it could be to balance given it's a multi-purpose job. I'd recommend reading it so as to get an understanding as to Yoshida and the dev team's perspective on why they created a "limited job".

Tht's why i said no muiti roles if thy remove the muiti roles just give thm dps and heals and defense buffs we will be 1 role which is till good long as we keep blue away from combo system rotation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Ya know...you guys ought to check the recent interview on Reddit. Yoshida explicitly explains why BLU couldn't be in XIV at first.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

Here's an excerpt from the interview that I believe is important, quoted from Yoshida himself:

"If we were to implement BLU as a normal job, there would be restrictions like "I can't raid until i learn all my new moves" or "I can't go to dungeons because i haven't learned those AoEs". You might think "I'm fine with that" at first, but you have to do that for every expansion. Everyone else is farming while you are learning to get to the startline, and it ends up being just annoying. Then what happens? The world fist teams won't use BLU. That doesn't mean we can just let BLUs have magic with extremely tilted synergies, because then BLU just becomes mandatory. If we are put in that situation where BLU has to be treated as a normal job, you won't be able to play BLU the way it's supposed to be fun."

This explanation tells us quite a bit about why BLU can't be brought into the raid scene. Let alone, there's more in the interview saying how difficult it could be to balance given it's a multi-purpose job. I'd recommend reading it so as to get an understanding as to Yoshida and the dev team's perspective on why they created a "limited job".

---

It's still poor excuses in my opinion. Spell learning doesn't have to be so rare that it takes so much time that you can't be done with it by the time a raid opens. Blu being mandatory would be poor balance and something that's within their control if they chose to make BLU a full job. Final reason sounds like stuff the WoW devs have been saying for a decade. The "we will tell you what's fun" reasoning for things has not gone well for that game.

I'll admit that now it does look like they will just let BLU die if the limited job concept isn't received well instead of adding a way for BLU to be used in the full game so I'm done trying. I'll probably check on the game again in two years to see how everything played out and if I want to give the game another shot.

I honestly do hope others that were also asking for BLU for years and feel like what is being added next month is acceptable do enjoy it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

It's still poor excuses in my opinion. Spell learning doesn't have to be so rare that it takes so much time that you can't be done with it by the time a raid opens. Blu being mandatory would be poor balance and something that's within their control if they chose to make BLU a full job. Final reason sounds like stuff the WoW devs have been saying for a decade. The "we will tell you what's fun" reasoning for things has not gone well for that game.

I'll admit that now it does look like they will just let BLU die if the limited job concept isn't received well instead of adding a way for BLU to be used in the full game so I'm done trying. I'll probably check on the game again in two years to see how everything played out and if I want to give the game another shot.

---

Well, I guess we can see you whenever Shadowbringers comes out and BLU will still be here. They've already got enough development time on it and the Battle Team Lead already has a crapload of spells probably crammed for Lv 60, 70, and 80 already.

As for their reasoning, I can see why they can't really just brute force it into XIV as another Caster job that "learns" as it levels...and to be honest, I want to believe that Yoshida didn't want a cop out of Blue Mage's origins just so that they could appease fans. Sticking true to its roots is what makes Blue Mage stand out, and what has defined it over the years with the learning archetype. I mean, we had XI's Blue Mage, but just because it's not going to be in raid content doesn't mean that they're not gonna allow it in there. You can pre-make Lv 50 Synced parties if you really want to challenge BLU's capabilities.

If you just up and say "Well, here's Blue Mage. Have fun with all the abilities you're going to get spoonfed!" It becomes rather dull considering how many jobs we already learn abilities and skills automatically from...about fifteen of them? Making a new job that actually stands on its own in a unique way allows more creative freedom with the game, instead of having to worry about balancing everything in place so the difficulty of the current raid tier isn't thrown out of whack. Yoshida already speaks volumes in the interview.

Just because it's not the same formula for creating a job doesn't mean they can't be inventive with new things. Allow them that freedom at least once and see what you think of it.

...also, before you get started talking about Diadem 2.0(Eureka), I'm just going to say that they simply are trying to make content that the community would want that's enjoyable. There's many differing opinions anyway about BLU and Eureka, so just "Agree to Disagree" as they say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

It's still poor excuses in my opinion. Spell learning doesn't have to be so rare that it takes so much time that you can't be done with it by the time a raid opens. Blu being mandatory would be poor balance and something that's within their control if they chose to make BLU a full job. Final reason sounds like stuff the WoW devs have been saying for a decade. The "we will tell you what's fun" reasoning for things has not gone well for that game.

I'll admit that now it does look like they will just let BLU die if the limited job concept isn't received well instead of adding a way for BLU to be used in the full game so I'm done trying. I'll probably check on the game again in two years to see how everything played out and if I want to give the game another shot.

I honestly do hope others that were also asking for BLU for years and feel like what is being added next month is acceptable do enjoy it.

---

It's a tissue paper Excuse That Yoshinda is to chicken to deliver that's all it means on (Blue Mage) can I see his point Yes .. Should Blue Mages be made this way yes. The Limited Job System is the One that needs taken out or change not the blue mage. this is how I do it 200 spells "Limited Job system in Place" and 80 at start of 5.0 and you raid only if all that is done. could it be possible Yes does Yoshinda think so No. he thinks it will force players to stop before they start. Sadly He's Dropping Feathers thinking there bricks that can hurt. But to be challenge I guess I need to go play GW2 or wait Pantheon is out. It's what he and his team did with the 3rd Ult this time woops we hurt them so lets only do 2 Ult and call it done for 4.X Series. All I see as of Now thanks to Yoshinda is better pack up and Get ready to Leave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huntrss

snip.

---

Yoshida says No for good reason in the quotation I cited. It's the same counter-argument I've been saying before this, too: You can't throw BLU into a raid tier saying it's gonna fit without breaking it; let alone, I think the people would be disappointed if BLU turned out to be just another familiar caster that doesn't learn from monsters at all when it's known to. If you want a good history on it, you should go play Final Fantasy V(Job), VI(Strago), IX(Quina), X(Khimari)/X-2(Blue Bullet ability) or hell, even go play XI and you'll still find that ever since its first iteration in V, it has learned from Monsters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Ya know...you guys ought to check the recent interview on Reddit. Yoshida explicitly explains why BLU couldn't be in XIV at first.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

Here's an excerpt from the interview that I believe is important, quoted from Yoshida himself:

"If we were to implement BLU as a normal job, there would be restrictions like "I can't raid until i learn all my new moves" or "I can't go to dungeons because i haven't learned those AoEs". You might think "I'm fine with that" at first, but you have to do that for every expansion. Everyone else is farming while you are learning to get to the startline, and it ends up being just annoying. Then what happens? The world fist teams won't use BLU. That doesn't mean we can just let BLUs have magic with extremely tilted synergies, because then BLU just becomes mandatory. If we are put in that situation where BLU has to be treated as a normal job, you won't be able to play BLU the way it's supposed to be fun."

This explanation tells us quite a bit about why BLU can't be brought into the raid scene. Let alone, there's more in the interview saying how difficult it could be to balance given it's a multi-purpose job. I'd recommend reading it so as to get an understanding as to Yoshida and the dev team's perspective on why they created a "limited job".

---

Thanks for sharing this quote. I think it's absolute horsesh*t, but it does give us a window into the devs' thinking about BLU.

Basically they are saying players won't want to put in the work to learn the abilities. I call shenanigans on that. If you didn't want to, you wouldn't be playing BLU to begin with.

So they're blaming the players because they're too lazy to make a balanced raid-worthy BLU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GrenGarm

Thanks for sharing this quote. I think it's absolute horsesh*t, but it does give us a window into the devs' thinking about BLU.

Basically they are saying players won't want to put in the work to learn the abilities. I call shenanigans on that. If you didn't want to, you wouldn't be playing BLU to begin with.

So they're blaming the players because they're too lazy to make a balanced raid-worthy BLU.

---

It is backed up by prior decisions. They removed ability rewards from job quests because people would not do them and queue up while missing skills. Now magnify that for an entire job. Sure, the committed people will collect them, but most people who want to try a new job aren't what I exactly call committed. A lot of people just lvl a job to either give it a shot or just to lvl it. Not much passion there. The usual way to remedy this is to make the spells automatically learned and that takes away from the learning aspect of BLU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GrenGarm

Thanks for sharing this quote. I think it's absolute horsesh*t, but it does give us a window into the devs' thinking about BLU.

Basically they are saying players won't want to put in the work to learn the abilities. I call shenanigans on that. If you didn't want to, you wouldn't be playing BLU to begin with.

So they're blaming the players because they're too lazy to make a balanced raid-worthy BLU.

---

Players already don't put any effort in and the last thing I need is some clown who slotted fish silence 24 times to be terrorizing my dr's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Yoshida says No for good reason in the quotation I cited. It's the same counter-argument I've been saying before this, too: You can't throw BLU into a raid tier saying it's gonna fit without breaking it; let alone, I think the people would be disappointed if BLU turned out to be just another familiar caster that doesn't learn from monsters at all when it's known to. If you want a good history on it, you should go play Final Fantasy V(Job), VI(Strago), IX(Quina), X(Khimari)/X-2(Blue Bullet ability) or hell, even go play XI and you'll still find that ever since its first iteration in V, it has learned from Monsters.

---

I get all that and plus I can't play FFXI even though I'm scribed to it and can log in and run around and go kill things for less then oh I say a min and then I go DC, Rinse and repeat that like 3 or 4 times get to level 3 DC again. now tell me to go play FFXI again because I would love to play it over FFXIV and it hand holding on everything but then again Yoshinda will not put FFXI on Unreal Engine 4 and bump it up to now and get rid of Playonline even if people are screaming we'll take the hit and one person (Ninja) offered 1 million for SE to do so and again No from Yoshinda even though he willing to put it on Phones with Unreal Engine 4 (Oh I forgot Do we Not Have Phones). Plus I have every old FF game and get Blue Mage needs to collect spells but it's all Bull what they are doing. He afraid we will cry we need to collect spells WHY when signing up for Blue Mage we are expecting that like going into Ult-Raid and expecting it to be Easy you kind of know what your getting and wanting from it. But oh No Yoshinda Kid Gloves are still on and can't wait to Collect them all is not what He wants to hear because he be proven wrong. besides ever hear of warning before saying yes to this your going to have to work for your spells. I really expected to work from 1 to 50 to 60 to 70 to .. don't hold your breath on getting 80 any time soon in 5.X (What and Why????). we have to work hard to be held back (Work your but off, Study, get good grades and Yoshinda will not give you the A you work hard for only to give you an F and hold you back).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huntrss

I get all that and plus I can't play FFXI even though I'm scribed to it and can log in and run around and go kill things for less then oh I say a min and then I go DC, Rinse and repeat that like 3 or 4 times get to level 3 DC again. now tell me to go play FFXI again because I would love to play it over FFXIV and it hand holding on everything but then again Yoshinda will not put FFXI on Unreal Engine 4 and bump it up to now and get rid of Playonline even if people are screaming we'll take the hit and one person (Ninja) offered 1 million for SE to do so and again No from Yoshinda even though he willing to put it on Phones with Unreal Engine 4 (Oh I forgot Do we Not Have Phones). Plus I have every old FF game and get Blue Mage needs to collect spells but it's all Bull what they are doing. He afraid we will cry we need to collect spells WHY when signing up for Blue Mage we are expecting that like going into Ult-Raid and expecting it to be Easy you kind of know what your getting and wanting from it. But oh No Yoshinda Kid Gloves are still on and can't wait to Collect them all is not what He wants to hear because he be proven wrong. besides ever hear of warning before saying yes to this your going to have to work for your spells. I really expected to work from 1 to 50 to 60 to 70 to .. don't hold your breath on getting 80 any time soon in 5.X (What and Why????). we have to work hard to be held back (Work your but off, Study, get good grades and Yoshinda will not give you the A you work hard for only to give you an F and hold you back).

---

To be honest, I feel like you're just butthurt with what you're trying to say here like many others. I understand people get that, but be reasonable. He's said his part, and let me say it again: Don't fix what isn't broken. The "Limited Job" Concept is more content that should be engaging for people, but to be honest if all you're going to whine about is "My Main Job Is Side-Content" then how about you create a system in XIV where the job isn't going to be behind each expansion if you have to collect abilities?

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I won't discuss further if all you're going to spout is hate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Auryan

The usual way to remedy this is to make the spells automatically learned and that takes away from the learning aspect of BLU.

---

There are like 16 other ways that you could make sure people are equipped to handle the content they're queuing for. The devs picked the laziest possible way, both for real jobs and for BLU.

Let's be clear: The learning aspect isn't a reason. It's an excuse. There's a huge difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

To be honest, I feel like you're just butthurt with what you're trying to say here like many others. I understand people get that, but be reasonable. He's said his part, and let me say it again: Don't fix what isn't broken. The "Limited Job" Concept is more content that should be engaging for people, but to be honest if all you're going to whine about is "My Main Job Is Side-Content" then how about you create a system in XIV where the job isn't going to be behind each expansion if you have to collect abilities?

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I won't discuss further if all you're going to spout is hate.

---

1, Blue Mage is not my main Job. 2, I said I understand him but I disagree. 3, He Said Limited Jobs.

1A, Blue Mage is Not my Main Job nor do I really care what they do to it until It Effects Me then Yes I have an Issue what the after effects are going to do.
2A, Already answered.
3, Limited Jobs (Blue Mage, BeastMaster and PuppetMaster) Now to him saying it will not work with this game (He May As Well Say He Has A Broken Game) because I'm really open to give him the benfit of the doubt on Blue Mage. But as far as Beastmaster and Puppetmaster even though they all share the same types collecting they are not the same at all that's like saying summoner doesn't work in this game then why did you put a Pet Job in this Game (how it should work is Summon 1 Pet at a Time which it already does and yeah the book can kind of be like Blue but that's where it ends). What is he going to say we Don't know what pet your sending out or what part your useing on your Puppet. The way I see it is yes both Jobs would be great side content but over all you may as well add Sch\Summoner to that Side Content and go after all this time this doesn't work in this game.

Don't compare apples to oranges with SMN and BLU. SMN is there due to ARR implementation, and always has been since they added the Arcanist Branch(which they didn't expand on because it was a bad idea with that year's implementation of Stat Point Application). The pre-conception of "He May As Well Say He Has a Broken Game" doesn't hold ground because they've already got it built. It's content that's going to make it in here, and it's not going to break the game at all.

Even though stuff like WHM's Lilies on pre-conception were true because they DID say it was a bad system to go by for the job, that was the community's outcry due to something not even working with how the job is played at high level.

We don't even have BLU out yet, and we're still hating the term "Limited Job" because of the prefix for no reason except we want to be able to raid with it. It's like saying the term "Eureka" is a bad idea before it's even released due to how the system works(which honestly was pretty bad in Pagos...) But to put it bluntly...why are we so focused on the "what ifs" of other jobs that might get put under the list when there's no basis to go on for how this first job will play or even the Masked Carnival? It reminds me of kids always saying "We want it now!", and then after getting it they then say "I don't want it." because it's not the product they wished for initially. In all honesty, I believe it's better to critique something when you've had the time to play it and even go into depth with it before saying that it's a failure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Auryan

It is backed up by prior decisions. They removed ability rewards from job quests because people would not do them and queue up while missing skills. Now magnify that for an entire job. Sure, the committed people will collect them, but most people who want to try a new job aren't what I exactly call committed. A lot of people just lvl a job to either give it a shot or just to lvl it. Not much passion there. The usual way to remedy this is to make the spells automatically learned and that takes away from the learning aspect of BLU.

---

HH**** No leave farming along Tht's wat make blue mage fun u working hard to get super powerful unlike other jobs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

To be honest, I feel like you're just butthurt with what you're trying to say here like many others. I understand people get that, but be reasonable. He's said his part, and let me say it again: Don't fix what isn't broken. The "Limited Job" Concept is more content that should be engaging for people, but to be honest if all you're going to whine about is "My Main Job Is Side-Content" then how about you create a system in XIV where the job isn't going to be behind each expansion if you have to collect abilities?

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I won't discuss further if all you're going to spout is hate.

---

you sound like a blue mage hater the main ppl i really disliked in FF11

Huntrss he don't want anything in this game tht make elite players any better thn thy already are so ya you will do whatever you can to stop thm 1. We already bet alot of raids super easy 2. The game Content is super easy if you fail something is wrong with you 3. Combo system rotation need to go thy need to make this better now tht ps3 Can't play anymore also where is the hair thy showed we can change like make thm longer or shorter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Don't compare apples to oranges with SMN and BLU. SMN is there due to ARR implementation, and always has been since they added the Arcanist Branch(which they didn't expand on because it was a bad idea with that year's implementation of Stat Point Application). The pre-conception of "He May As Well Say He Has a Broken Game" doesn't hold ground because they've already got it built. It's content that's going to make it in here, and it's not going to break the game at all.

Even though stuff like WHM's Lilies on pre-conception were true because they DID say it was a bad system to go by for the job, that was the community's outcry due to something not even working with how the job is played at high level.

We don't even have BLU out yet, and we're still hating the term "Limited Job" because of the prefix for no reason except we want to be able to raid with it. It's like saying the term "Eureka" is a bad idea before it's even released due to how the system works(which honestly was pretty bad in Pagos...) But to put it bluntly...why are we so focused on the "what ifs" of other jobs that might get put under the list when there's no basis to go on for how this first job will play or even the Masked Carnival? It reminds me of kids always saying "We want it now!", and then after getting it they then say "I don't want it." because it's not the product they wished for initially. In all honesty, I believe it's better to critique something when you've had the time to play it and even go into depth with it before saying that it's a failure.

---

Lol masked Carnival is taking the place of duty finder for blue mage so its nothing new really... but you can keep on thinking it is if you was smarter you would know why we posting hate but your the type of person tht saids whatever idc abt it it look like something Tht's going to waste alot of my time whocares we wanted blue mage because we played it in FF11 up to lvl 90 till thy took all consoles down now its only on Pc but i hate playing on Pc so Tht's why i'm not playing it right now over FF14 so there you can take tht anyway you like it but this is bs they know they can balance blue mage into FF14 i seen it whn thy showed tht

Tht trailer of thm using blue mage spells.. 1. why don't the spells have levels.. the spells so far don't look to op so ya when i play it January 15 if its not hitting 8k damage or 7k damage its not op but ya i cant wait alot of ppl going to raise up then and join us blue mage should be in the game just like other jobs but i can still see some good from this too but if i cant do raids or other content ya i'm going to keep posting till it get fix because blue mage should be with other jobs i just feel like there's more to it but he not telling us what it is because level 5 death we don't need tht also level 5 death don't make blue mage be a blue mage look at FF11 Blue mage SO ya we will see soon

There is another interview (have a look at latest MeHappy video on youtube about BLU and Hydatos) where we have a bit more insight on BLU. There is indeed more planned to it, but this comes close to what many feared : It might not get to 80 during 5.X series. So if that happens, that would definitely mean no raiding with it, no matter what gameplay wise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karshan

There is another interview (have a look at latest MeHappy video on youtube about BLU and Hydatos) where we have a bit more insight on BLU. There is indeed more planned to it, but this comes close to what many feared : It might not get to 80 during 5.X series. So if that happens, that would definitely mean no raiding with it, no matter what gameplay wise.

---

which is why I said they are holding Blue Mages back. Mostly they are saying level 60 and then Level 65, Level 70, Level 75 basically find some how to hold it back so you can't hit 80 in 5.4 or 5.5 at all. you have to wait until 6.1 if that before hitting 80 and then not hit 90 until 7.1 if at all where the other Jobs are you guess it 10 levels above us.

Well with people like Starcake representing the "Elite players" and the retreading of nothing but old arguments I do believe I am done in this thread. Have fun people. Shame you would rather flame each other than actually try to see where the other side was coming from, and whether or not you like it. The information in those interviews actually alleviates and answers a lot of the questions and concerns that people had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Well with people like Starcake representing the "Elite players" and the retreading of nothing but old arguments I do believe I am done in this thread. Have fun people. Shame you would rather flame each other than actually try to see where the other side was coming from, and whether or not you like it. The information in those interviews actually alleviates and answers a lot of the questions and concerns that people had.

---

What is alleviated or answered? All I see is that it's worse and worse in terms of what's actually fun about BLU, and people who had unrealistic expectations about BLU getting to use the DF in Shadowbringers were dead wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GrenGarm

All I see is that it's worse and worse in terms of what's actually fun about BLU,

---

That my friend is subjective on a person-by-person basis. It's basically asking the same question in regards to any Job in the game: "What's fun about X Class/Job?"

You'd get a million different answers and reasons for it, I'm sure, but if the general populace doesn't like BLU in its iteration just because it's trying to stick to its roots, then perhaps people are just disconnected on what Blue Mage defines in terms of a job or have unrealistic expectations as you said.

The Thing about Blue Mage is it is not for everyone. If you want to play in Old content (Blue Mage is for you). If you want to play a Diffrent kind of Job (Blue Mage is for you). If your want to Solo (Blue Mage). If you want the Latest and greatest Raids, Dungeons and never want to look back but always looking Forward (Blue Mage is Not For you). to be honest Blue mage will be fun and Enjoyable and you get to Level 5 Death the Mob and I really think that Blue Mage will have no Need for LB (Limit Break) at all since you can just Level 5 Death Bosses (First and Second Boss in Dungeons) and have a blast Thanks we don't have to wait for Limit Break 3 to use the most powerful spell in Blue Mage Spell Book there no requirements on when or if we can or can't use it we Just 1 Shot the Boss and Move on. anyway we maybe hated but you didn't want to fight that boss anyway did you .. it's too late anyway moving on.

So...when's BLM getting it's Death, since Death is a Black Magic spell? :thinking:

This is a query, of course, because Lv5 Death is so critical to BLU's identity, then Death must then be critical to BLM's identity. So come on devs, Death in 5.0 BLM's kit please.

Lol idc i'll just wait it out F the hold back whn blu raise i'll play main stuff thn lets see how thy like tht tht mean i'll solo everything because this is wrong on the devs but i have a feeling its not all of thm but the director has the last say so... Ya i'm looking at you ^,...,^ and again ty blu hater look at pvp you suck because the director / devs don't want you soloing thy want you to stay with team took the fun out of the game if u a Smn you lost pets also u can heal you have to stay close to healers which sometimes let you die even if you stay close so look at the devs / director Team Team Team Team Team die as a Team hmmm thy should revamp the story too and make it the warriors of light and the bringers of light and always so team in cs because this game build for team ya i get it now Tht's why u kick blue mage out also thts why you took Smn pets away etc whats next

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starcake28

Lol idc i'll just wait it out F the hold back whn blu raise i'll play main stuff thn lets see how thy like tht tht mean i'll solo everything because this is wrong on the devs but i have a feeling its not all of thm but the director has the last say so... Ya i'm looking at you ^,...,^ and again ty blu hater look at pvp you suck because the director / devs don't want you soloing thy want you to stay with team took the fun out of the game if u a Smn you lost pets also u can heal you have to stay close to healers which sometimes let you die even if you stay close so look at the devs / director Team Team Team Team Team die as a Team hmmm thy should revamp the story too and make it the warriors of light and the bringers of light and always so team in cs because this game build for team ya i get it now Tht's why u kick blue mage out also thts why you took Smn pets away etc whats next

---

You can't Blame the Whole Game on 1 Man and his Team because the problem started in 2010 not 2013 Square-Enix themselves got Cocky and Rush out an MMO that shouldn't been release until it was ready (Are you done .. That was A Yes We are Ready ... Director and Developers answer we are Far from ready "they look at their 25% made game". it'll be out Tomorrow you have 24 to get it ready).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

So...when's BLM getting it's Death, since Death is a Black Magic spell? :thinking:

This is a query, of course, because Lv5 Death is so critical to BLU's identity, then Death must then be critical to BLM's identity. So come on devs, Death in 5.0 BLM's kit please.

---

Not true at all, but okay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starcake28

Lol idc i'll just wait it out F the hold back whn blu raise i'll play main stuff thn lets see how thy like tht tht mean i'll solo everything because this is wrong on the devs but i have a feeling its not all of thm but the director has the last say so... Ya i'm looking at you ^,...,^ and again ty blu hater look at pvp you suck because the director / devs don't want you soloing thy want you to stay with team took the fun out of the game if u a Smn you lost pets also u can heal you have to stay close to healers which sometimes let you die even if you stay close so look at the devs / director Team Team Team Team Team die as a Team hmmm thy should revamp the story too and make it the warriors of light and the bringers of light and always so team in cs because this game build for team ya i get it now Tht's why u kick blue mage out also thts why you took Smn pets away etc whats next

---

I'm not even going to attempt to read that. Learn English please.

Here's the problem with BLU. I'm not opposed to it being "limited". I'm not opposed to it being "solo". I'm not opposed to locking it out of raid content. My big issue with BLU is that THERE ISN'T ENOUGH SOLO CONTENT IN THE GAME TO JUSTIFY BLU'S EXISTENCE AS IS. As it currently stands, the only things you can do with BLU are: kill overworld enemies, use party finder to do SOME basic dungeons, beat masked carnivale. That's it. That's not bad game design, that's TERRIBLE game design. Once you beat the masked carnivale, there's absolutely no reason to continue playing BLU. If they wanted to follow through with this design concept, they need to add FAR more solo content for BLU to participate in. For example, make BLU OP and give them the ability to cover all three roles in a dungeon while restricting party play altogether. Or ffs at least allow it to do the only fun solo content in the game, deep dungeons. If you're going to design BLU as a "solo" class, then you need to go all in. If you try to do everything, you'll achieve nothing. Actually tune BLU to do all content solo and treat it separately from party play. For example, have a world-first limited job race AND a world-first party race for current raid content. Limited jobs could be treated separately from party play and it would be its own thing at the same time as being just as viable and valid as any other job in the game.

TL;DR If you're going to create a solo-oriented job, there needs to be content to justify it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by negiman4

I'm not even going to attempt to read that. Learn English please.

Here's the problem with BLU. I'm not opposed to it being "limited". I'm not opposed to it being "solo". I'm not opposed to locking it out of raid content. My big issue with BLU is that THERE ISN'T ENOUGH SOLO CONTENT IN THE GAME TO JUSTIFY BLU'S EXISTENCE AS IS. As it currently stands, the only things you can do with BLU are: kill overworld enemies, use party finder to do SOME basic dungeons, beat masked carnivale. That's it. That's not bad game design, that's TERRIBLE game design. Once you beat the masked carnivale, there's absolutely no reason to continue playing BLU. If they wanted to follow through with this design concept, they need to add FAR more solo content for BLU to participate in. For example, make BLU OP and give them the ability to cover all three roles in a dungeon while restricting party play altogether. Or ffs at least allow it to do the only fun solo content in the game, deep dungeons. If you're going to design BLU as a "solo" class, then you need to go all in. If you try to do everything, you'll achieve nothing. Actually tune BLU to do all content solo and treat it separately from party play. For example, have a world-first limited job race AND a world-first party race for current raid content. Limited jobs could be treated separately from party play and it would be its own thing at the same time as being just as viable and valid as any other job in the game.

TL;DR If you're going to create a solo-oriented job, there needs to be content to justify it.

---

They designed Mighty Guard to be BLU's own tank stance. It is possible that it has other tanking abilities along with healing- and enhancing magic. It sounds to be a hybrid already. What BLU isn't though is OP, just funny and crazy. Just how I imagine the job.
As for just having the Carnival to do... Well it still has the rest of ARR content to enjoy. I'm planning to see if I can solo dungeons for spell learning, try to solo some extreme primals, set up BLU parties for Coil, and other fun things. This limitation is pretty, uh, limiting, but this will only be the case for its 4.5 introduction. That is likely to change when it reaches 60, 70 (and possibly 80) by 5.whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Auryan

They designed Mighty Guard to be BLU's own tank stance. It is possible that it has other tanking abilities along with healing- and enhancing magic. It sounds to be a hybrid already. What BLU isn't though is OP, just funny and crazy. Just how I imagine the job.
As for just having the Carnival to do... Well it still has the rest of ARR content to enjoy. I'm planning to see if I can solo dungeons for spell learning, try to solo some extreme primals, set up BLU parties for Coil, and other fun things. This limitation is pretty, uh, limiting, but this will only be the case for its 4.5 introduction. That is likely to change when it reaches 60, 70 (and possibly 80) by 5.whatever.

---

You can't Que up to Solo Dungeons (Blue Mages can't use Duty Finder which as you guess it the ability to go in your Self) ever go unsych that is the only way in for Solo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

What's disingenuous is you claiming that people at large asked for Blue as a Limited Job.

All that was asked for was Blue Mage. What we didn't ask for was to roleplay Mr. Jensen as we keep saying we 'didn't ask for this'.

And again this isn't some one or the other situation. All it would have taken was 15 minutes of scrapboarding to come up with an equitable design paradigm to keep the world progression and skill hunting and still fit that into Job Balance. That's it.

That's literally it. There's even multiple RPG games out there that -do that- they could have used as a springboard, but they chose not to.

I personally am disappointed because this is the laziest way they could have gone about it. I personally hope it is enjoyable, but it will forever be tainted by the fact that I can't raid with it, until that changes.

Which is what Feedback can hopefully get them to do, and not playing Uncle !@#%ing Thaumaturge.

---

FINAL FANTASY XIV is about more than just raiding. We asked for blue mage. We were told it wouldn't be implemented the same way as any other job. We kept asking. Now people like you complain that we're finally getting what we asked for. You do realize that learning spells is part of blue mage's charm, right? I doubt it from how you talk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huntrss

Everyone ask for Blue Mage and Yoshi-P said No. Now Yoshi-P found a way to put Blue Mage in and the reply is No instead of joy. They have said it will be going up to level 60 but I don't expect level 70 until all other Jobs are 80. this isn't going to be Current at all because then it some how break the game? Blue Mage is for old content like AAR and soon Heavensward and having fun in that. This is a Job you put away when your done not one you carry until the end of the game.

---

Exactly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Let me know when I started. Nowhere in my post did I attack you the arguer instead of your argument--rather the opposite, I said your argument was fallacious. Let me know when you're ready to debate in good faith.

---

But you didn't explain your reasoning. You just spoke of dichotomies. Also, considering your other posts in this thread (like how black mage should get Death), I don't think you even understand blue mage well enough to debate well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

We were told that's how Yoshi P was thinking he would add it. Same as how he though 2.0 SMN was a good idea. How he though bow mage was a good idea. Personally, I was fine with ARR SMN and liked bow mage but many people were not.

Most of us that kept asking for BLU regardless of how he thought it could work were saying it didn't have to be a solo job. Some of us gave ideas of how it could have worked. There were some people that wanted BLU but didn't think it would be added due to how would spell learning work and could the game handle learning a large amount of spells. Some wanted BLU but didn't want it to be put into a single role so said they would rather not see it. Then there were some that didn't want to see BLU take up a future job slot and wanted something else instead. It's disingenuous to say the majority that were asking for BLU wanted a job that is separated from large parts of the game.

---

Well, if you think you can do a better job than Yoshi-P, feel free to make your own game. What I said was that we asked for blue mage (fact), we were told it wouldn't be implemented the same way as any other job (fact), and we kept asking for it even with all the speculation and opinions you brought up (fact). It's disingenuous to say I think people asked for a job "separated from most of the game's content" when you don't speak for the entire population of the game. For many, "most of the game's content" is housing, glamour, crafting, and gathering. Also, this game's population's percentage of hardcore raiders is actually quite low.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

I would say the way you presented your points was pretty toxic. You used very extreme dichotomies that were pretty absurd and then went after the OP a bit at the end of your post. The OP didn't go after anyone in the forums with their post.

---

I think it's toxic of the community as a whole to be this hypocritical. We asked for blue mage. We were warned it probably wouldn't fit in the game's systems as they were. We kept asking. Now we have it, and people are mad instead of glad. To me, that's just downright stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

Are you implying those of us that want to play as the job we waited years for in the content we choose are lacking a moral compass?

---

See above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

There are two spells there as examples and it was the two you you used as examples in your post.

---

To refer back to the interview with Yoshi-P that was linked earlier in this thread, the charm of blue mage is learning your spells, and being held back from dungeons and raids because you don't know the right spells, and then having a BLU-only meta after that is pretty bad. I was trying to get to that same point, but I guess people on this site find thinking difficult.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

I understood that you were questioning why bring a BLU into dungeons and again it comes down to choice. Why bring a NIN or BRD or SMN into dungeons? People chose to play as those jobs. It's that simple.

---

Then what do you have against people who want to play blue mage?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

We are getting level 5 Death once BLU is raised to 60 cap but there hasn't been concrete info yet on the spell besides this article this other poster read. No idea if it's legit or not.

---

It sounds like it is from that interview.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

You can still play Dragoon and the Monk if you wanted in the content of your choice. I meant that every job should be for everyone instead of a job for solo people, a job for raiders, a job for pvpers, etc.

---

Blue mage is a job for everyone. The truth doesn't stop being true based on one's beliefs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

When did they attack you instead of how you were presenting your argument?

---

See above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

I don't get why people keep saying BLU was more capable of things on XI than it really was. It was a pretty strong DD and the self SC and MB that was possible every few minutes and then Cannonball or breath nukes at 75. It could tank and heal decently but RDM was far better at soloing. At 99 BLU can tank and heal a bit better now but still not as good as the jobs actually meant for those roles.

---

It's because of the level of combinations you could pull off, considering you had nearly two hundred spells and the job traits that resulted from setting combinations of spells. Blue mage could do literally anything, and the fact another job was "better" at that doesn't matter when you're Jevil with a sword or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

Many of us that wanted to main BLU in all content find this unacceptable. That doesn't mean we are against the solo content.

---

What I find most unacceptable is the overall hypocritical attitude of the community. Solo content is still content, and if you don't like it, don't play it. And don't hate on people who enjoy it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

Yeah I really want a caster tank after seeing how well they could work on Old Republic. They could make BLU fit into any role and did look like there was work to make it be the first multi-role job.

---

I'll be fair here, as I haven't played that game (I'm not a big fan of Star Wars to start with) and say I wouldn't mind a magic tank either, and we have that in blue mage thanks to Mighty Guard. Sure, you can't use it in Alphascape right away, but that's fine because the devs are rightfully worried about job balance, something you're neglecting in your arguments. Job balance was one of the greatest failings of FINAL FANTASY XI, in fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starcake28

Callach your wrong this blue mage nothing like FF11 also thy wasn't block from content and held back from joining other jobs.also blue mage wasn't Op from wat i seen in FF 11 every job was hitting really hard but ppl always try to point a finger at the most fun jobs because thy really don't like it. but thy will hide there true words just trying not to upset ppl i know this because i played FF11 and there was ALOT of haters on there because elite blue mage players could solo elite RDM could solo etc but thy always hated blue mage players more its so funny i wish i had posted it on youtube

---

Really?

FINAL FANTASY XI's blue mage had to see a move go off to possibly learn it. Blue mage could fill any role on a party by setting combinations of blue magic spells for job traits in addition to what the spells themselves did. Blue mage was great in any role and with any type of damage. To be able to do everything blue mage could do as a player without leveling blue mage, you had to level and gear multiple jobs.

FINAL FANTASY XIV's blue mage has to see a move go off to possibly learn it. Blue mage can fill any role on a party by setting combinations of blue magic spells for what they do, including stances to help fit the role. Blue mage will be fine in any role because we don't have to worry about the type or element of damage we deal. To be able to do everything a blue mage can do as a player without leveling blue mage, you have to level and gear multiple jobs.

They look the same to me. The only reason blue mage in FINAL FANTASY XIV will be fine is because it's a Limited Job. Otherwise, job balance would immediately be borked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Ya know...you guys ought to check the recent interview on Reddit. Yoshida explicitly explains why BLU couldn't be in XIV at first.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

Here's an excerpt from the interview that I believe is important, quoted from Yoshida himself:

"If we were to implement BLU as a normal job, there would be restrictions like "I can't raid until i learn all my new moves" or "I can't go to dungeons because i haven't learned those AoEs". You might think "I'm fine with that" at first, but you have to do that for every expansion. Everyone else is farming while you are learning to get to the startline, and it ends up being just annoying. Then what happens? The world fist teams won't use BLU. That doesn't mean we can just let BLUs have magic with extremely tilted synergies, because then BLU just becomes mandatory. If we are put in that situation where BLU has to be treated as a normal job, you won't be able to play BLU the way it's supposed to be fun."

This explanation tells us quite a bit about why BLU can't be brought into the raid scene. Let alone, there's more in the interview saying how difficult it could be to balance given it's a multi-purpose job. I'd recommend reading it so as to get an understanding as to Yoshida and the dev team's perspective on why they created a "limited job".

---

THANK YOU!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by negiman4

I'm not even going to attempt to read that. Learn English please.

Here's the problem with BLU. I'm not opposed to it being "limited". I'm not opposed to it being "solo". I'm not opposed to locking it out of raid content. My big issue with BLU is that THERE ISN'T ENOUGH SOLO CONTENT IN THE GAME TO JUSTIFY BLU'S EXISTENCE AS IS. As it currently stands, the only things you can do with BLU are: kill overworld enemies, use party finder to do SOME basic dungeons, beat masked carnivale. That's it. That's not bad game design, that's TERRIBLE game design. Once you beat the masked carnivale, there's absolutely no reason to continue playing BLU. If they wanted to follow through with this design concept, they need to add FAR more solo content for BLU to participate in. For example, make BLU OP and give them the ability to cover all three roles in a dungeon while restricting party play altogether. Or ffs at least allow it to do the only fun solo content in the game, deep dungeons. If you're going to design BLU as a "solo" class, then you need to go all in. If you try to do everything, you'll achieve nothing. Actually tune BLU to do all content solo and treat it separately from party play. For example, have a world-first limited job race AND a world-first party race for current raid content. Limited jobs could be treated separately from party play and it would be its own thing at the same time as being just as viable and valid as any other job in the game.

TL;DR If you're going to create a solo-oriented job, there needs to be content to justify it.

---

You've completely missed the point.
There's currently not much solo content because there's no job capable of soloing it all. Blue Mage is what makes all content solo content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

You've completely missed the point.
There's currently not much solo content because there's no job capable of soloing it all. Blue Mage is what makes all content solo content.

---

Are you dense? This is an MMORPG, it's designed for multiplayer. Of course it doesn't have much solo content. Which is why BLU as it is now is a stupid idea. You might have your own idea of how BLU will play, but it sounds to me like in order to solo something that was originally designed for a party, you need to overlevel and unsync yourself in order to be able to do that, so forget soloing level 50 dungeons as BLU until the level cap raises. The fact that in order to do a dungeon relative to your own level, you have to put together your own party to stand a chance is stupid. BLU should be specifically tailored to be anti-party if they're going to design it this way. The way it's being implemented, it doesn't magically make anything soloable, because that's not how BLU was designed, because in order to do things that were designed for parties, you have to make a party, which is counter-intuitive to BLU's entire design philosophy.

My point is: either go all in and make BLU completely solo-oriented, or brute force it into the tank/dps/healer paradigm. You can't have both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by negiman4

That's it. That's not bad game design, that's TERRIBLE game design. Once you beat the masked carnivale, there's absolutely no reason to continue playing BLU.

---

This particular line is utterly asinine. I leveled ast to 70 and haven't touched it since so clearly it was a waste of time. I haven't summoned my chocobo since I leveled through the sb msq over a year ago so chocobo companions were clearly a waste of dev resources. Haven't touched any of the deltascapes once I finished my glam sets, time to delete raids.

It is ok for content to have a finite lifespan. We don't even know if this is the case yet for blu but even if they completely abandoned it after this patch cycle, that would still be fine. It would just have been another side thing to do.

You also have no idea what blu is like in game. All they've showed off is like 8 skills out of 49 and of those we've only got numbers attached to 4 of them. For all you know maybe they can reasonably solo dungeons without egregiously oulevelling them.

Probably not, but maybe!

Blue Mages are suppost to be more powerful but we have to wait an see. As for Soloing Dungeons Blue Mage can only use Party Finder and as far as we know can't use Duty Finder. So how are they suppost to Que up for Soloing Dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Not true at all, but okay.

---

What's not true? That Death isn't a defining spell of Black Magic? It was a Black Mage spell in the very first Final Fantasy, so if that's not iconic to the job, why is Lv5 Death iconic to BLU?