Forcing players to pay to keep housing is unfair.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Again: it is not a valid argument to claim that it's not worth fixing something because few people use or like the current crap system. That is why it needs to be fixed.

Aside from that, fully fleshed out secondary systems are what maintain subscribers. A housing system that can engross players for years building unique environments (a la WildStar) is a serious help for player retention.

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It's an 'incredibly' valid argument in the business world. Nintendo could have either poured even more money into 'fixing' the Virtual Boy, or they could have cut their losses and stopped supporting it. Guess what they did?

MMORPGs with really good housing, aren't so successful the entire industry tries to emulate them. They all try to emulate WoW. There's a reason for this.

I just got a house in ESO yesterday, instanced housing soooo i had no issue.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Nintendo could have either poured even more money into 'fixing' the Virtual Boy, or they could have cut their losses and stopped supporting it. Guess what they did?

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I would just like to point out the irony of this statement on the Final Fantasy XIV forums in the context of the history of Final Fantasy XIV.

That is all.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

I disagree with op.
Right now it's not great. but in 5 years time and FFXIV is dieing. people will still want housing. But you want non active players for 3 years to still have there house in case they come back.

Sorry big pictures. I sub I keep my house.

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I don't think anyone really disagrees with that. The problem is that right now, 45days is to small of a window. We don't want it increased to a span of a year or greater. That would be ridiculous. We just want a little bit more breathing space than 45 days. At least 3 months is more than enough time.

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Originally Posted by Keeroh

If you ever played Wildstar, you may understand why their housing (while amazing) lacked a real sense of location. You had "neighbors" at random, and were literally floating alone in the sky.

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There is nothing "lacking" here
https://68.media.tumblr.com/cec7f52a...l1qjo1_500.png

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

What you don't seem to understand is how our devs work. Their main concern is the MAJORITY.

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No, their main goal is providing a theme park game with attractions for any kind of player, otherwise this game wouldn't have raids at all if less than 10% of the players do them, no pvp either, nothing but play dress and tomestone grind.

Not to mention housing is casual content so if we go by your point there's even more of a reason to fix housing, it's content for the majority.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

This game is very casual friendly. Why? Because they are the MAJORITY.

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Housing is the epitome of casual content. I know many players in WildStar who have played for two and a half years yet barely level their characters - or only leveled to 50 to access some decor that's on rep vendors - because they spend pretty much all their game time in housing. When those ~*~*hardcore*~*~ raiders quit, it's the casual players who stick around. It's the folk buried eyebrow deep in housing plans who maintain subscriptions.

I don't know why you have a hate-on for housing.

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Originally Posted by PocketVolcano

There is nothing "lacking" here

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Nor here:

http://68.media.tumblr.com/53e1fb7ef...0ljo1_1280.png

http://68.media.tumblr.com/025e3472c...0ljo4_1280.png

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Originally Posted by PocketVolcano

There is nothing "lacking" here
https://68.media.tumblr.com/cec7f52a...l1qjo1_500.png

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As for the floating alone thing...taken from Chad Moore's last State of the Universe letter

" And lastly, we’re planning to release the long-awaited Communities feature later on this year, which will allow players to come together in housing plots and collaborate in new and exciting ways. Having already played with this feature myself, I can tell you that it’ll open up a whole new world of creative possibilities for our dedicated housing designers and their unlimited imaginations. I can’t wait to see what you guys come up with!"

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

I get what you are saying truly, but if they didn't do this new players would not have the opportunity to get housing and your neighborhoods would begin to stagnate as players who have quit would leave massive areas of housing empty and unused.

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That's why I agree that with any sort of zone/neighborhood/ward style housing system, some sort of inactivity timer needs to be implemented. The problem here is more in the specifics of how it's implemented.

It should be set up exclusively for the purpose of reclaiming housing plots from players who have quit the game, while anyone who has not quit the game is protected from losing their investment in the feature.

Changing the rule from 45 consecutive days of not entering the house interior to 90 consecutive days of not having a subscription to the game would be just as effective at freeing up housing plots from former players (since every player who quits the game will hit both of those conditions). But one of them allows those who are still continuing with the game to take short breaks from time to time, while the other doesn't.

So just changing that rule about when reclamation takes place would go a long way towards improving the system. But even then, there should be features in place to mitigate the loss for players who come back after losing a house. Instead of giving players just a few extra days to get back 80% of their gil and some small subset of their housing items, allow them permanent access to getting back that 80% of the gil and ALL their housing items, no matter how much later it is that they come back.

And by far the most important part of making an inactivity timer work for players who buy houses and risk possibly losing them is the initial problem with SE's housing system as a whole. There have to be enough houses for everyone. Reclamation isn't a fix to the shortage issue. It's a feature that requires that shortage to have already been fixed before it can work properly. If someone loses a house and then later comes back to the game, they have to have access to getting another house to replace the one they lost. When that's guaranteed to be available, and all their housing items are safely (i.e. permanently) held by the Resident Caretaker, then the loss of a plot is a minor issue easily fixed, and not the sort of thing that's going to drive people away from the game.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I would just like to point out the irony of this statement on the Final Fantasy XIV forums in the context of the history of Final Fantasy XIV.

That is all.

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And?

Doing what they did was most certainly a heavy risk. A risk companies tend to not pursue. An exception to a trend indicates there's a possibility but not necessarily a good enough chance to make a wise investment in.
It's still a valid point, that a drastic focus on a failing product could just result in not saving the situation. And in context to the line of discussion, would come at the cost of implementing features in this game that are the reason why most people play and enjoy the game.


Also that is not ironic, though humorously coincidental.
If I had said something like, "No company would ever support a failing product." Then that would be ironic.

The whole having to "enter" your house to reset the timer is really just a nuisance. An active sub is all you should need. The "walk through the door once a month" system that's in place doesn't alleviate the issue of people buying a house and not using them. There are still plenty of near-empty yards around my house that have barely been touched since the wards opened.

I mean, is the timer of "walking through the front door" actually preventing people from owning a house and not using it? Not really.. Walking in your front door once every month isn't using it. It's just purely an inconvenience to those that do need a short time away from the game or cannot login for a short time.

I am fine with an auto-demolish after a number of unsubbed days to keep the market churning over when people quit on a more long term level.. However going away on vacation for a month shouldn't put you at risk of your house getting demolished.


Unfortunately this will get little to no support because the number of people that don't own a house far outweigh those that do (not saying that every non-home owner is like this but).. Especially considering people use their own sour sauce for not having the opportunity to buy a house to penalize those that do own one, and are quick to jump on the train that is "I don't have a house so others should have to jump through hoops to keep it!"

Blame SE for the terrible housing availability, not those that did buy a house. Because I am sure in time, you will be one of the people that own one, and you will likely be crying out for a bit more leniency on the demolish timer..

What if you share your estate with a friend? Is your friend entering the state in your place resets the timer?

I can see the reasoning behind the timer tho, as it'll be way too much work to rework the entire system to make it instance. I mean that'll be the perfect plan, to rework everything so it works and everyone gets a place, but sadly I don't see that happening. Tho on the other hand I can also the other view of the timer needing to be shorter. Cause fact of the matter is it'll make the people who have them log back in faster to keep their house cause it's all about that sub. In the end, there's no winners here.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

What if you share your estate with a friend? Is your friend entering the state in your place resets the timer?

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Nope, sadly.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

Their main concern is the MAJORITY.

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I mean, we get a bazillion threads every other week on here and other sites complaining about how crappy the housing in FFXIV is. I think that would mean the issue is significant enough that the devs need to look further into it, and do something about it. Something more than just the bread crumbs they've given us. (Just can't with those apartments... step in the right direction, but they're basically an FC room...)

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

And?

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Why are you asking for an "and" after the statement of "That's all."?

There is no "and". There's an "end". With E. That's the meaning of "That's all.". That is all there is. I understand you're really insecure and take anyone quoting you as a direct attack, but please, show some reading comprehension.

Sometimes a humorous comment is just a humorous comment.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

. I could be hospital dying.

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Bruh. If you're dying in the hospital, a digital house is the least of your problems

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

Bruh. If you're dying in the hospital, a digital house is the least of your problems

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So you want to take away people's homes just because they got sick??? That's the very definition of discrimination... bruh.

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Originally Posted by Bahd_Monkey

So you want to take away people's homes just because they got sick??? That's the very definition of discrimination... bruh.

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Did we read the same post? I didn't see him write anything even approaching that.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Why are you asking for an "and" after the statement of "That's all."?

There is no "and". There's an "end". With E. That's the meaning of "That's all.". That is all there is. I understand you're really insecure and take anyone quoting you as a direct attack, but please, show some reading comprehension.

Sometimes a humorous comment is just a humorous comment.

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Adding a 'that's all' is pretty typical of a parting shot you'd see in any passive aggressive conversation you'd have in the real world.
The only other posts I've responded to in this thread was one wherein they questioned if I read something in a condescending way and 'eyerolled'. (Their following post was far more neutral in decorum.) Both of which were obviously meant to be taken in a slightly antagonistic tone, likewise with the underlined part of your post.

If people hold opinions differing from mine, that's great. I legitimately enjoy having conversations like that, me simply responding to the comments isn't indicative of feeling attacked, even if there's clearly some intention within the post. This is entirely separate from having a conversation with a point.

I find it oddly humorous that you tell someone to not read into things like there was an intended insult, and then go on to insult them.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I mean, we get a bazillion threads every other week on here and other sites complaining about how crappy the housing in FFXIV is. I think that would mean the issue is significant enough that the devs need to look further into it, and do something about it. Something more than just the bread crumbs they've given us. (Just can't with those apartments... step in the right direction, but they're basically an FC room...)

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Indeed. Aside from the glamour log, this housing issues are some of the most-repeated complaints on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Indeed. Aside from the glamour log, this housing issues are some of the most-repeated complaints on this forum.

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Agreed. Sadly, I suspect they won't do anything for a while. Housing is less an issue on smaller servers and it almost seems like they want that to be an incentive to not transfer.

Is really bad house system with so much limit. I agree
But to be fair.... FFXIV is a game with high pretty graphics.

Fact:
House ward zone is pretty huge data transfer back to back from server to you.

Why can there is so many apartment?
Apartment is same as FFXI moghouse/ingame INN is a small instance cast a lot less data.

Limit house = More content/minion/mount/gears ingame. So I can´t really blame SE with this house system.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I would just like to point out the irony of this statement on the Final Fantasy XIV forums in the context of the history of Final Fantasy XIV.

That is all.

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SE got lucky with it. Just like how Nintendo initially scored with the Wii. Only reason they did it was because a competent developer knew how he could make the game popular, and SE saw a long term investment gain from it. The plan was to emulate WoW and make it a big love letter to everything Final Fantasy. SE wouldn't have done it if they didn't know how to save this game nor if they thought that it wouldn't have resulted in a long term gain. Nintendo knew the Virtual Boy was a failure and they didn't know how to fix it. They didn't see any gain from it so they dropped it.

SE doesn't see the housing issue as a huge deal at the moment. If players REALLY wanted housing so bad, there wouldn't be any open plots on dead servers like Goblin or Zaelra. SE knows this so rather than pour resources into something that they don't even have a plan for, they leave it and instead put resources into projects that they know will work.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

If players REALLY wanted housing so bad, there wouldn't be any open plots on dead servers like Goblin or Zaelra.

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Once again trying to use either a server's lack of population or players' reluctance/inability to make use of a really terrible system as evidence that it's not worth improving... That's absurd.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Once again trying to use either a server's lack of population or players' reluctance/inability to make use of a really terrible system as evidence that it's not worth improving... That's absurd.

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Oh no I'm not saying that's right at all. I firmly believe that housing should be available no matter what server you're on to everyone. I'm just saying that's how SE probably sees it and they think it isn't an issue at all, when in reality it's a very big flaw that the game has compared to other games.

The only way I think SE is going to get the message is if someone prepares a question explaining the situation and has it presented at a Q&A session. Remember that really great question that was asked about WHM last time? Something like that. It would need to be live so that SE is forced to say something about it.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

The only way I think SE is going to get the message is if someone prepares a question explaining the situation and has it presented at a Q&A session. Remember that really great question that was asked about WHM last time? Something like that. It would need to be live so that SE is forced to say something about it.

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I want to do this. D:

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Nope, sadly.

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If it was an FC estate, FC members entering it resets the timer. Why can't the same be done to personal estates? Having your friend enter in your place should reset the timer if you share your estate with him.

I have to say that the housing system in this game is quite possibly (not saying it is) one of most punishing Housing systems (or at least just the Demolition part of it) I've seen in a MMO.. I mean For FC's, the FC Leader = Owner of the house.. Though despite that anyone can reset the timer but it doesn't work that way for personal houses which is odd and don't see why it shouldn't work both ways.. it kinda defeats (or actually does) the purporse of giving others access to your house lol Would be nice if they had some kinda of in-game protection fee/Insurance/Rent/Property Tax?? Something to help protect your place should you inactivate your account for a little to take a break. (lol Feels sorta like extortion only legal xD) It's hard seeing new players ask about the housing in this game only to watch there reactions turn to uninterest when they hear how it works lol I feel for the OP but as it stands now, those are the rules set for the game. And if we can get enough people to stop bashing each others opinions then maybe something will get done. until then only thing that can be done right now is deal with it

Meanwhile....back on Balmung...

The things I would do to get a different housing area for Free Companies and individual members. It bums people out when they learn about housing but--NOPE, CHUCK TESTA--I can't count on my hands and toes how many places on Balmung have single-player mansions all to themselves while 80 man Free Companies have small plots to share amongst one another. Doesn't really make much sense, when you think about it. Imo? There ought to be FC-specific Wards comprised entirely of medium and large-scale houses that are accessible only if your Free Company has made it to a certain rank with their respective allied nation.

Let the rich people have their mansions on their own wards, sure...but I personally believe that Guild Housing ought to be a staple in MMOs, and it is entirely puzzling how Square hasn't pulled this off yet, when so many less qualified and equipped companies have.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

If it was an FC estate, FC members entering it resets the timer. Why can't the same be done to personal estates? Having your friend enter in your place should reset the timer if you share your estate with him.

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Exactly this ^ Because this pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the shared estate feature because your basically a resident of the house.
http://i.imgur.com/wyhKgKb.jpg

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

As evidenced by Jade's post, with the proper permissions a friend can do a LOT with your private residence. If your friends are manipulating furnishings, gardening, stabling chocobos, etc, then personally I'd consider that house to be "lived in", even if the actual owner has to be away from the game for a while. Remember, the goal of auto demolition is (or should be) to free up housing that's not being used. If your friends are using your house, then yes, your house is being used.

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I was sadly involved in this problem with a friend and watching her house (and all the time/work/gil we put into it) just vanish right in front me =/ (though some friends of a friend of mine were able to move in, it still sucks.) One way they could help with this is to give shared housing the ability to reset the timer but by accepting the shared housing feature you forfeit your right to buy a house because technically your already apart of one (gotta have give/take somewhere)

http://i.imgur.com/jp9UbWD.jpg
Leaving the shared house will give you your right back and put the house back into a state of demo after time has exceeded the limit

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Originally Posted by Yeol

If it was an FC estate, FC members entering it resets the timer. Why can't the same be done to personal estates?

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It's probably because if they do that, you'll hardly see any housing demolition at all. I've lost count of how many personal houses I've seen demolished and get new owners, but I don't believe I've even seen a single FC auto demolish, but obviously that's just based on what I've seen.

I'm not saying the system is perfect at all, but right now at least (on most servers) you have a chance to get housing if you actively check, if they let tenants also reset timers, people will be adding people to their houses just to save their houses until the end of time... and if you're actually actively using the house this shouldn't be a thing that really bothers you either.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

It's probably because if they do that, you'll hardly see any housing demolition at all. I've lost count of how many personal houses I've seen demolished and get new owners, but I don't believe I've even seen a single FC auto demolish, but obviously that's just based on what I've seen.

I'm not saying the system is perfect at all, but right now at least (on most servers) you have a chance to get housing if you actively check, if they let tenants also reset timers, people will be adding people to their houses just to save their houses until the end of time... and if you're actually actively using the house this shouldn't be a thing that really bothers you either.

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As evidenced by Jade's post, with the proper permissions a friend can do a LOT with your private residence. If your friends are manipulating furnishings, gardening, stabling chocobos, etc, then personally I'd consider that house to be "lived in", even if the actual owner has to be away from the game for a while. Remember, the goal of auto demolition is (or should be) to free up housing that's not being used. If your friends are using your house, then yes, your house is being used.

And it's not as though this is issuing a free ticket to preserve your house forever: even if friends COULD save your house, just adding them is not enough. They'd presumably have to do exactly the same things you would do to save your house (i.e., walk through the front door every month or so).

Ideally, just having a subscription should be enough to preserve your home. If that's not going to happen, friends should be able to preserve your home, just as FC members can preserve FC homes.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

It's probably because if they do that, you'll hardly see any housing demolition at all. I've lost count of how many personal houses I've seen demolished and get new owners, but I don't believe I've even seen a single FC auto demolish, but obviously that's just based on what I've seen.

I'm not saying the system is perfect at all, but right now at least (on most servers) you have a chance to get housing if you actively check, if they let tenants also reset timers, people will be adding people to their houses just to save their houses until the end of time... and if you're actually actively using the house this shouldn't be a thing that really bothers you either.

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Well I am checking on Moogle nearly daily for an open house and yet in the last few months I only saw around three opened up houses. Two small ones and one big. Either we have lots of active players or maybe I am always looking at the wrong time but I dont get the feeling that someone that is new, finally has the money and rank to buy it really has that much more of a chance thanks to the timer. Ironically the time where my old FC got the fc house and I get my own small too was before the timer.

At the same time this is not even near perfect, its in the end a really really bad bandaid..at least on the big servers even if you would need to check in each week we would never have enough housing for everyone. Its simple math. Number of players and maximum amount of housing -> far from enough.

And really if someone has tenants for their houses and they in some way are using it (even if its just going into it once or maybe planting some stuff) they would be still be using it. Also you would still need the owner to pay his sub. If I am quitting the game I will not continue to pay the sub.

At the same time I just looked in the party finder some days ago and around three people wanted to sell their houses..two people even had two small ones to sell and the third person had one small too..as long as people like that are not punished..as long as its still possible to buy multiply houses through the use of alt characters..that is the same time where I will post here complaining that those that just want their house for use will still be punished for a break or unfortunate situation.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

I could be hospital dying.

...if I want to be away for one short month I should be able to without being punished.

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If you were unfortunate enough to be in the hospital dying I would hope that the first thing that you would be thinking when you came out would be "I'm glad i'm alive"
instead of "damn, i lost my ffxiv house :("

They have to put a timer on house demolishing because otherwise houses that were bought years and years ago would become haunted. Where do you draw the line?
Personally I think that they have been very reasonable about many matters regarding housing.
If you were playing long enough you might remember that they extended the house log in time because of Japanese Earthquakes.
"not log in for one short month" is quite different from being hit by a disaster. Square Enix don't have a detector for every ffxiv player's personal problems but they still try.

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Originally Posted by Keileia

They have to put a timer on house demolishing because otherwise houses that were bought years and years ago would become haunted.

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I have a whole different feeling about my strangely empty neighbourhood now.

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Originally Posted by Keileia

If you were unfortunate enough to be in the hospital dying I would hope that the first thing that you would be thinking when you came out would be "I'm glad i'm alive"
instead of "damn, i lost my ffxiv house :("

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This is such a stupid comparison. I know that if I'd just recovered from a life-threatening illness, I would want to return to normalcy as soon as possible, and yes, I'd probably get pretty upset when/if I found out that the house I'd worked hard to obtain had been taken away.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

This is such a stupid comparison. I know that if I'd just recovered from a life-threatening illness, I would want to return to normalcy as soon as possible, and yes, I'd probably get pretty upset when/if I found out that the house I'd worked hard to obtain had been taken away.

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This is ridiculous. You can say 'if I was' or 'I would probably' all you want, but until it actually happens, you can only guess what your priorities would be. And if losing a few 1s and 0s in a digital game is the worst thing you have to deal with after an extended hospital stay, you are lucky as hell.

This is wildly off topic anyway. I don't see the point to going on ad nauseam on a single, hypothetical example that isn't even the situation that the OP is in.

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Originally Posted by Alynn

You don't wanna pay? There's other people who would pay to have your house. In a world where housing is limited, there is no such thing as fair or unfair for you. As much as I hate the word, entitlement is what I smell from this post.

I'm sorry that money is tight though but the reality is the reality.

Edit: I'm saying this as someone who owns a house.

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Entitlement? He sunk his own time, and bought a house. That took work. Everyone should be able to have one if they work for it.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Entitlement? He sunk his own time, and bought a house. That took work. Everyone should be able to have one if they work for it.

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Arguing that everyone should get one is entirely different than arguing that the demolition timer is unfair.