Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

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Originally Posted by Godking

Deal with it. If they want to fix it, they will. If they thought it was a problem they probably wouldn't have released it like that. Also, they could've hot fixed it already.

Keep that in mind.

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This is the only reason i dont think its truly broken, i tested it and was getting 1k xp chains, 650+ per mob at 38 fighting lvl 49 mobs ...while this was nice, pre patch i was getting 450 xp solo on ixali's by camp glory lvl43-49 and a bit more duo (plus alot faster duo). On top of this i was getting 4.5k+ xp per leve at 5 star with friends (Which is very hard now). Also i know at lower levels i was able to pull off 650+ xp off mobs higher than me in 1.18 and it went faster with a party.

If anything this update simply streamlined xp, yes its faster, but not much faster. You have to remember that alot of mobs are grouped now and strategicly i might add so xp will be coming in faster in general not just with a plvl....i really like overall mob placement good job dev team on that one! What happens when you finally save up 99 leves and decide to burn them all with a group? I would say your going to level up pretty quickly!

While being powerleveled i didnt really consider it being powerleveled it was more like my friend asking me if i want to go kill higher level stuff with him, its not like he 1 shot the mob, i was still tossing heals and the occasional spell i could do to the mob.

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Originally Posted by Frein

Are you seriously suggesting that PL is the intended way to progress in the game?

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no, I am stating for a fact that Yoshi-P (you know, the PRODUCER of the game) did, however, so we all can help our FRIENDS and BUDDIES catch up to us and play together with them....

Straight from Yoshi - P: Power Leveling was given by Yoshi-P to the players with his blessing! /joy!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...810-07-2011%29

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Q: After the claiming system change in patch 1.19, I'm afraid everyone will be power leveling each other. What do you think of this?

A: It depends on what you consider power leveling. For example, if my friend and I were playing completely different games. I've already reached the level 50 cap, and then I invite my friend. Of course I want to do end game content like Ifrit with him, but I invited him, and he wants to play too, and we are really good friends so I want to help him out.

I can help him out with my level 50 character when he's being attacked by a monster. Of course it's going to lower the XP a bit, but I'd like to make it a bit loose and not too strict. I just want to make sure friends are able to help each other if they want to challenge content together by filling the gap.

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Much <3, Yoshi-P, much <3!!

I'm aware that he said that. What I'm not convinced of is that he understands how excessively effective it is right now, which would make it abuse of a design oversight. I'm not condemning anyone for grabbing on to the opportunity, that's the rational thing to do, but I do think it needs to be neutered as an option or at least significantly nerfed so that you'll only achieve a minor benefit from PL.

When you give players an easy way and a hard way, they'll eventually all start using the easy way only, which was evident in FFXI once PL for low levels was discovered. PL was very rare pre-2006. Then all of a sudden just about every <L30 group had a high level healer holding people's hands so they didn't have to worry about tanking, healing or enmity management. You still couldn't actually have them join the group and help you kill the target and the benefits quickly tapered off at 40+, but it was still hugely damaging for the integrity of the game at early levels. The skill level of less experienced players also noticeably went down because a whole generation of players never had to figure out how to play.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

The majority of people on Selbina I see are not being power leveled. Grouping by itself is such an insane way to gain XP that I really don't think PL ever will be the main form of leveling for everyone.

Just lucky bastards who have someone willing to power level them.

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Maybe you not going to the low level areas but everything i go there some person being powerlevel and i must find other spot to party with my friends. So just because you have not yet saw them does not mean it not happening.

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Originally Posted by Crica

no, I am stating for a fact that Yoshi-P (you know, the PRODUCER of the game) did, however, so we all can help our FRIENDS and BUDDIES catch up to us and play together with them....

Straight from Yoshi - P: Power Leveling was given by Yoshi-P to the players with his blessing! /joy!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...810-07-2011%29

Much <3, Yoshi-P, much <3!!

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He allowing powerlevel yes but he said you get less EXP not get the full amount or you can't read that part? You should not be getting 500+ exp for someone killing mob 10-15mobs for someone who level 15 and the mobs also 20-30+ level over the person. So at the end the game is broken and the powerleveling much be gimp so people don't get 500-1k+ exp for killing mobs for you that over 10+ level over you.

There a lot of things is broken in this patch the hate control being one of them.

It seem there over 70+ so people are agreeing that is broken all you people just want a easy way to get 50 without doing much work. The point of a game is to level up grind yourself up to max level and then do endgame. But it seem now at days everyone just want to do the endgame part without even trying to get max level.

There many way SE can help ppl get more exp and level up faster, "EXP ring" "Link account" and the person still have to grind just take less time. Right now i can get 1-38 and ask a friend or my gf to powerlevel me while i'm sleeping. Then 38-50 i do stronghold and get 1+k and make 80k or over. I still don't understand why you people think this is ok there not even enough to do at 50 for us to be level up this fast. I understand if we talking about FFXI or wow where there lot's to do but even then FFXI and wow had stuff to do low level. FFXI garrison at 20 and then again at 30 there BCNM you could hunt down NM you could do lot's of rewarding and fun quest.

So getting level 50 in this game just to do what? dungeon,ifrit, strong holds? that not even enough stuff to do to make hardcore or casual something to do. All we have Atm is level up or maybe i just don't see the big picture here we can make this game casual but still be hard and fun i guess people don't understand that.

The entire point of this thread is to let the devs know, hey this is not okay.

But it's also to find out where the majority opinion lies. I'm still waiting on finding out. Because if the majority of players on FFXIV want to skip 40 levels in a day, levels being the meat of any MMO, then I really don't want to be around. If the majority wants this removed, great, I want to be around.

Make levels pointless in a MMORPG and you simply have a new kind of game. Let's call is MMOAG. Massive Multiplayer Online Adventure Game. In any RPG I have EVER played, leveling was a core mechanic and you couldn't just skip through the levels. I must be crazy, but I still enjoy the progression aspect after a couple decades.

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Originally Posted by Issac

But it's also to find out where the majority opinion lies. I'm still waiting on finding out. Because if the majority of players on FFXIV want to skip 40 levels in a day, levels being the meat of any MMO, then I really don't want to be around. If the majority wants this removed, great, I want to be around.

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Yeah, this is exactly how I feel. I've played hardly any since the patch, cause if this is how it's meant to be and how it stays, I won't be sticking around.

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Originally Posted by Frein

People generally enjoy cheating at least in the short term. That doesn't make it a good idea to let people cheat.

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The game being programmed like this on purpose is considered cheating? Who would have ever thought!? It is not an exploit, it is not a computer bot leveling your character up for you, so please do explain to me how it is cheating? Oh wait you just can't, too bad so sad.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

The game being programmed like this on purpose is considered cheating? Who would have ever thought!? It is not an exploit, it is not a computer bot leveling your character up for you, so please do explain to me how it is cheating? Oh wait you just can't, too bad so sad.

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Yes, it's true. After all, games ARE always programmed correctly the first time, every time, with no unintended consequences that are brought to light by the community. Touché.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

The game being programmed like this on purpose is considered cheating? Who would have ever thought!? It is not an exploit, it is not a computer bot leveling your character up for you, so please do explain to me how it is cheating? Oh wait you just can't, too bad so sad.

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You don't read do you? it's a Exploit because you getting more EXP then you should by killing high mobs for a low level. You should be getting less for someone killing a 30 but no you getting 500-1k with exp chain that how it become a Exploit and top of that should not allow this type of powerleveling.

And it seem a like think the same about this issue that what the forums are for to ask for stuff and also tell them to take stuff out.

In my opinion, PL'ing this way should be removed. Soon the population will be like XI is now...Abyssea/Astral burnt 75/95's not knowing how to play their jobs all wanting rewards for counting to 3.

Yes, Yoshi-P should in fact consider the learning curve one needs to go through to earn their rewards. Not being spoon fed by high level friends.

UNLESS he considers putting a BIG ICON on the players showing "I am a Powerlevelled player! (I have high level friends - you have not!)"

Ppl are proud to be Level 75 in FFXI back in the earlier days, simply standing in town as a higher level shows how much you've gone through.... but going on like this it's no longer 'special' to be high level. Diminishes the sense of pride in being at higher levels.

I'll ask again, can we please get a rep response? I understand you guys are busy, and that this is a touchy subject that might carry some negative PR, but it's a pressing matter.

Thank you.

Seconded. A change this drastic that generates one of the most popular/controversial threads on the boards should be addressed pretty quickly.

I do find it odd we've got 34 pages with nary a sound from any official source.

A simple, "Yes, we want Casual Fantasy XIV, deal with it", or "Oh shit, we screwed up, we'll fix it" would shut all of us up.

Because at this point, there is literally no way they haven't seen this thread.

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Originally Posted by Nanaya

I do find it odd we've got 34 pages with nary a sound from any official source.

A simple, "Yes, we want Casual Fantasy XIV, deal with it", or "Oh shit, we screwed up, we'll fix it" would shut all of us up.

Because at this point, there is literally no way they haven't seen this thread.

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It's Saturday the dev team does not work today, hoping to keep it alive enough for them to answer. If they say yes that how we plan it then i guess maybe with this enough likes they can change it and understand how we feel about the issue.

There other way of doing this powerlevel by a healer at least they still working for it. Or exp ring,link account and many other stuff they can do so you can catch up your friend and they still work for it. Before 1.19 it was easy to get 1-50 so i don't how this is a issue you should not allow this type of party play.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

It's Saturday the dev team does not work today, hoping to keep it alive enough for them to answer. If they say yes that how we plan it then i guess maybe with this enough likes they can change it and understand how we feel about the issue.

There other way of doing this powerlevel by a healer at least they still working for it. Or exp ring,link account and many other stuff they can do so you can catch up your friend and they still work for it. Before 1.19 it was easy to get 1-50 so i don't how this is a issue you should not allow this type of party play.

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Or a level-sync-like mechanic, which is what they SHOULD do if they want higher level people to be able to play with new lower level people.

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Originally Posted by Travesty

Or a level-sync-like mechanic, which is what they SHOULD do if they want higher level people to be able to play with new lower level people.

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Ahh i never thought about that i did say something like this would happen and a level sync would fix that issue but i got troll on and say to shut up. I happy now people are agreeing that this should be taken off or fix with level sync.

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Originally Posted by Travesty

Or a level-sync-like mechanic, which is what they SHOULD do if they want higher level people to be able to play with new lower level people.

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"Different for the sake of being different and ignoring nearly a decade of experience in developing and maintaining an MMO."

^ Motto of SE.

No, but seriously, this is a problem (not Pl'ing, people being able to play with lower level buddies) they faced and dealt with in FFXI years ago, and it was solved by level sync. Wasn't that Yoshi's response anyways? He wanted friends to be able to play together? On the other hand, we know from XI that they don't necessarily mind people getting to level cap in a week anymore. So much for "hardcore."

this is the stupidest SE have ever done to ffxiv. faster lvling and game die faster. ppl will get to all 50 in no time in this rate. and then they all go for end game stuff... but we don't have that much end game content yet, and i don't think dev team can release end game content fast enough to hold ppl in this game(they don't have much to do,after they done all the end game stuff)

enjoy the fast lvling atm guys. and after that soon we can find another game to play.

This thread was only created by two reasons. Either wasn't invited to experience the advantage of exp chaining or feels the need to express getting Lv 50 is some sort of relic sign on FFXIV.

It's not an exploit because the system is working as intended. When having a low level player in a high level players in a party it will mean that the first kill will be high exp for the low rank and low exp for the high level party. When chaining, both high/low players are rewarded with a set of amount of exp appropriate for the level. Example: 900 for a R20 and 560-680 to a R45 player.

People feel the need to complain to make the game a competition.

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

This thread was only created by two reasons. Either wasn't invited to experience the advantage of exp chaining or feels the need to express getting Lv 50 is some sort of relic sign on FFXIV.

It's not an exploit because the system is working as intended. When having a low level player in a high level players in a party it will mean that the first kill will be high exp for the low rank and low exp for the high level party. When chaining, both high/low players are rewarded with a set of amount of exp appropriate for the level. Example: 900 for a R20 and 560-680 to a R45 player.

People feel the need to complain to make the game a competition.

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Or perhaps it's a legitimate concern. It's not a concern for you, so you can dismiss it as such. Not a very good argument, but, unfortunately, a popular one. Leveling should mean something. I don't play MMO's to be at the level cap and participating in endgame within a week. The best developers in the world can't churn out enough content to sustain something like that.

The journey should be just as interesting as the end goal. That journey is completely marginalized by a system like this. Another term for it would be a sense of progression. Either way, I don't think it's good design to allow players to get to 50 in less than a week. As much as this community hates World of Warcraft, the leveling in this game just became easier and more pointless than WoW.

We'll have to see what the developers think of it, but I can't imagine they're okay with people racing to endgame only to have very few activities to participate in. How exactly will that help SE's cause?

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

This thread was only created by two reasons. Either wasn't invited to experience the advantage of exp chaining or feels the need to express getting Lv 50 is some sort of relic sign on FFXIV.

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Or, you know, one of the 50 other reasons people have explained in detail in this thread.

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People feel the need to complain to make the game a competition.

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Wrong. People feel the need to complain when a mechanic that could break the game, and fundamentally alter it to the point of it barely even fitting the "RPG" genre, is needlessly introduced. It has nothing to do with competition. The people complaining about this don't complain about the fact that other players can level faster than them because they have more free time or a bigger linkshell, or anything else. This is not an issue of competition. It's an issue of game mechanics and balance.

cheating but you got 25K right???
if its so broken why did you stay in the party?

tip: leave party if its something you dont like.

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We'll have to see what the developers think of it, but I can't imagine they're okay with people racing to endgame only to have very few activities to participate in. How exactly will that help SE's cause?

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regardless what happens people will complain. SE hasnt raised the level cap yet, they made the game alittle tricker to play. people race to the cap no matter what then say this game sucks, im bored, and go to another game happens in every game nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Or perhaps it's a legitimate concern. It's not a concern for you, so you can dismiss it as such. Not a very good argument, but, unfortunately, a popular one. Leveling should mean something. I don't play MMO's to be at the level cap and participating in endgame within a week. The best developers in the world can't churn out enough content to sustain something like that.

The journey should be just as interesting as the end goal. That journey is completely marginalized by a system like this. Another term for it would be a sense of progression. Either way, I don't think it's good design to allow players to get to 50 in less than a week. As much as this community hates World of Warcraft, the leveling in this game just became easier and more pointless than WoW.

We'll have to see what the developers think of it, but I can't imagine they're okay with people racing to endgame only to have very few activities to participate in. How exactly will that help SE's cause?

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Help SE's cause? Do you realize the mistakes they've made along the lines of the gaming industry? And I'm not talking about FFXIV. Companies makes mistakes and it's a life lesson to learning from them. They're not poor, they're a successful company.

Anyways, I took Pug legit to 50 and helped the party getting them to 50. There's nothing wrong from the party or friends even to return the favor to help the lower players level up. Time is still required to level up and then it eventually slows down near 50. I know this may seem a different example but there are several players who got level 50 on every DOW/M (not SP exploit) in two months. That's not normal and it's questionable. But that's just me expressing my skepticism.

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Originally Posted by indira

cheating but you got 25K right???
if its so broken why did you stay in the party?

tip: leave party if its something you dont like.

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You heard it here first folks. When there's a mechanic that allows you to hit endgame in a week, you just stop doing it. I have a better idea: The developers could aim for the sweet spot in the middle, but because they're SE and don't seem to understand the words "iterative design" they go from one extreme to the next.

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Originally Posted by indira

cheating but you got 25K right???
if its so broken why did you stay in the party?

tip: leave party if its something you dont like.


regardless what happens people will complain. SE hasnt raised the level cap yet, they made the game alittle tricker to play. people race to the cap no matter what then say this game sucks, im bored, and go to another game happens in every game nothing new.

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My point exactly. People will enjoy an advantage and feel the need to complain just so the other players will not receive the benefit of joining a high level exp chaining. Kinda like the same complaint with summoner exp method from XI.

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

I know this may seem a different example but there are several players who got level 50 on every DOW/M (not SP exploit) in two months.

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Yeah, bullsh*t. It took the very first person over 7 months to get everything to 50: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...0-on-all-jobss

And even after that everyone thought it was a bot.

I'd like to see your examples of people who did it in 2 months.

Grumble...

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

Help SE's cause? Do you realize the mistakes they've made along the lines of the gaming industry? And I'm not talking about FFXIV. Companies makes mistakes and it's a life lesson to learning from them. They're not poor, they're a successful company.

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What does that have to do with the topic being discussed? SE needs to slow people down right now, not give them the keys to the F1 car. The fact is that there is not much to do in this game once you hit 50. When leveling is so fast, the expectation is that there's tons of content to participate in once you get there. What do you think will happen when people get there and find there's not much to do at all? All it's going to do is burn players out and have them looking for another game to play.

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Anyways, I took Pug legit to 50 and helped the party getting them to 50. There's nothing wrong from the party or friends even to return the favor to help the lower players level up. Time is still required to level up and then it eventually slows down near 50. I know this may seem a different example but there are several players who got level 50 on every DOW/M (not SP exploit) in two months. That's not normal and it's questionable. But that's just me expressing my skepticism.

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I think people playing and helping one another is great, but not when it creates an incredibly top heavy game before the game has even gotten off of the ground.

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

Don't feel like looking it up. You look it up.

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No, cause you're full of crap lol. Prior to this patch it would have been impossible.

And even if you weren't full of crap, it's not my job to prove your stupid claims. You made them, you prove them.

There's people that donate crafting materials to a person so that he can achieve lv 50 craft. So, while gather and slowly and painfully craft grind slowly, it's okay for that person to get donated crafting items? I can easily complain he got help while everyone else are busting their asses burning time just to get 1 level crafting rank a day.

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Originally Posted by Travesty

No, cause you're full of crap lol. Prior to this patch it would have been impossible.

And even if you weren't full of crap, it's not my job to prove your stupid claims. You made them, you prove them.

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Nice made up false quote. I never said that, but whatever pleases your fantasy argument. Seriously, how many alt accounts are you going to use to like your created post?

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

There's people that donate crafting materials to a person so that he can achieve lv 50 craft. So, while gather and slowly and painfully craft grind slowly, it's okay for that person to get donated crafting items? I can easily complain he got help while everyone else are busting their asses burning time just to get 1 level crafting rank a day.

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You can buy mats on the markets too. That's a terrible argument cause you still have to craft everything yourself, you can't have someone else make you physically craft faster.

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

Nice made up false quote. I never said that, but whatever pleases your fantasy argument. Seriously, how many alt accounts are you going to use to like your created post?

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So you think editing your post to say "Grumble..." will make people think you didn't say what I quoted? Wooooow. Like that's never been done on a forum before lol.

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

My point exactly. People will enjoy an advantage and feel the need to complain just so the other players will not receive the benefit of joining a high level exp chaining. Kinda like the same complaint with summoner exp method from XI.

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I think the point people are trying to make is that if someone jumps alot of levels within on fight and the becomes reliant on not have to fight for themselves (worst case scenario), then they wont know "how to play" by the time they hit the current cap.

I can see Yoshi wanting other higher levels to help lower levels without restrictions and being rewarded, but the exp rate is a little too high for that. Just dont want people not understanding certain abilities/ how to play a certain class by the time they hit 50, since everyone is having to relearn things at this point / skip over certain areas/items. Its nothing about racing, bragging rights, entitlement, or anything of that nature.

Maybe i'm over thinking it...but if people jump pretty far in levels in a short time, that kinds kills the usefulness of lower level items implemented since you'd skip right over em (especially since now there is a decent amount of variation every 3-6 levels in equipment). Or maybe only a few people will do it because frankly...it's pretty boring.

My buddy just hit 50 Lnc and wanted to help our lS out by helping us level up, so we decided to go and kill raptors. It was 3of us 31arch 39 cnj and 50 lnc fighting against 46-49 raptors.

1st. There is nothing wrong with this scenerio my 50 lnc friend is doing nothing wrong by helping us kill these raptors it is his choice to do so, he is not exploiting anything he is simply killing raptors for us while we toss him heals. He managed to get mostly chain 4 with 1133 xp going from 850 1k 1070 1133 each group of links took about 3-5 minutes to kill. And keeping him alive wasnt always easy although he never died. All in all i managed to get 40 and pretty much the end of 40 but not quite 41 in about 1hr 30min.

In all honesty while he didnt do chain 5 chain 4 is pretty high and our xp bar was moving at a decent rate...but its nothing ground breaking....

In fact i had another ls group going earlier with a 50 glad killing ixalis by camp glory (25thm 30arch 31 pug 50 gld), while the gld didnt kill as efficiently we were only getting 550+ xp with low chains, meanwhile a group of 34-36 were killing much more effectivly than our group and definatly doing chain 5. All in all in about 6 1/2 hours playtime in between fighting dieing looking for camps breaks etc i managed to gain 2 3/4 lvls on my cnj and about 2 lvls on my thm about 20 more minutes of fighting raptors it would have been 3 lvls for cnj.

Thats not that bad really.....maybe we are doing it wrong but we cant seem to get 24k in 5 minutes Are Mages rly this strong !?!?

Now that i think about it 1 star R40 leves gave my con 4.5-5k xp plus 350+ for each mob for a 5-10 min leve and the raptors which took about 5 min gave me a bit less . I think this whole system is balanced after all

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Originally Posted by Travesty

You can buy mats on the markets too. That's a terrible argument cause you still have to craft everything yourself, you can't have someone else make you physically craft faster.

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Okay genius. Raptor sinew went from 1k to now 10k and up. http://www.ffxivpro.com/item/10007506/raptor-sinew
You really think I can throw gil like that out there? Will wand of tremor from a simple 100k item to 440k currently on wutai. You call that normal? Every time the wards reset, so does the market leaving the ward campers to F((( with the prices.
Cotton yarn from 600g to 5k a piece. Need I say more.

You people want to complain after using an advantage. I'm not surprised.

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

There's people that donate crafting materials to a person so that he can achieve lv 50 craft. So, while gather and slowly and painfully craft grind slowly, it's okay for that person to get donated crafting items? I can easily complain he got help while everyone else are busting their asses burning time just to get 1 level crafting rank a day.

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What a terrible comparison.

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

Okay genius. Raptor sinew went from 1k to now 10k and up. http://www.ffxivpro.com/item/10007506/raptor-sinew
You really think I can throw gil like that out there? Will wand of tremor from a simple 100k item to 440k currently on wutai. You call that normal? Every time the wards reset, so does the market leaving the ward campers to F((( with the prices.
Cotton yarn from 600g to 5k a piece. Need I say more.

You people want to complain after using an advantage. I'm not surprised.

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You missed the point entirely. No matter how you get the mats, you still can't have someone make you physically craft faster. And people who've been in the game long enough have more than enough money to buy all the mats.

Feel free to ninja edit your post again.