So Second Coil has been destroyed

I have yet to clear t8 and t9 though did get to like 45%/47% in both. While I can appreciate the nerfs for new players I would also like to have a simple checkbox:
[ ] without nerfs

That when clicked would still provide the echo(that can be clicked away) and the original unnerfed fight. I mean the fight is technically there so would just need to pick set of abilities 1 vs set of abilities 2 for the instance before you start it. That would give people the chance to always experience the original while at the same time giving everyone who does not wish to to just enojy the nerfed one.

I have recently seen a PF on the server where the person was looking for people to run T1 as it was originally meant with the minimal gear and no echo and doing the mechanics. I wonder how that went but I hope they got their wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

Came on the forums expecting QQ over nerfs, was not disappointed, seriously the only ones complaining about it have ALREADY beaten 2nd Coil into the damn ground so why does it matter to you... oh wait, don't want them filthy scrub casuals getting nice loot too huh?

---

Sorry man, it's not the case :p we actually don't give a single s**t about "filthy scrub casuals" like you said :x we re just sad to see our countless hours of raid training, late nights, despair moments getting tossed into the trash pile.

Also, I have many cons but jealousy isn't one of them :p and I hope this major nerf on scob will motivate more "filthy scrub casuals" to step into fcob to claim the real prize of the whole CoB : fcob cutscenes

Nerf will happen eventually

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atomnium

Sorry man, it's not the case :p we actually don't give a single s**t about "filthy scrub casuals" like you said :x we re just sad to see our countless hours of raid training, late nights, despair moments getting tossed into the trash pile.

---

You beat the turns before the nerf, and are able to progress in FCoB significantly earlier than most. Your time wasn't wasted, you got a lot out of it - if it wasn't fun when you did it and worth the experience alone, what's the point in raiding at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garlyle

blip

---

That is a part of the challenge too, to get a good group. I mean according to the ppl in this thread T6-8 will be DF friendly now. But other content like Titan Ex is impossible in DF, even getting to heart phase is hard in DF.
And I really like that. It feels more rewarding when you finally beat it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiara1

I dont like how previous content is getting nerfed. Why do ppl need to be at the latest raids the day the patch is released? Coil 1&2 is still new to new people so no need to nerf it yet imo. Nerf them when the expansion is released instead.

---

You are not alone with that sentiment, but MMO history disagrees with it, most people do want to try out the new content and not be gated behind old fights (even if it's new for them) specially if those old fights aren't very rewarding in a (sort of) extreme vertical progression game like this, where the best gear comes from the newest content and it greatly outclasses the older gear.

This is how streamlined MMOs heavily dependent on vertical progression work and this won't change even with the expansion, that's the direction this game will keep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atomnium

Sorry man, it's not the case :p we actually don't give a single s**t about "filthy scrub casuals" like you said :x we re just sad to see our countless hours of raid training, late nights, despair moments getting tossed into the trash pile.

---

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fornix

It's a shame that they didn't just add a story mode version of SCoB, rather than alter the normal version of the raid. With SCoB's current implementation future players cannot use SCoB as practise grounds anymore for FCoB.

---

I agree, this is very unfortunate and I would add they should have gone with multiple modes from the get-go (which also would have adressed the lack of significant content the game suffers from), I really hope they change this for Heavensward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

Came on the forums expecting QQ over nerfs, was not disappointed, seriously the only ones complaining about it have ALREADY beaten 2nd Coil into the damn ground so why does it matter to you... oh wait, don't want them filthy scrub casuals getting nice loot too huh?

---

I haven't beaten Second Coil yet and I'm complaining. Nice loot should be given when effort is done. My group did a test-T6 in DF and it was just face rolled despite the many mistakes and it was disgusting and unsatisfying. No debuff/no real effort. Echo should have been enough...

I prefer the effort of a good fight and the happiness of clearing it. There's no pride in Second coil now.

What's the point with this? They made coil easier than dungeons... They could had made a story mode coil and leave this one alone :/

This is so pointless because it wont get them ready for t9 or final coil.

Okay guys

Done T6 and T7 in Df.

Turn 7 is harder.

Because it's so funny, it's hard to concentrate on the fight, watching the mistakes happen, watching us survive it without much of a problem and then carrying on.

4 new players. 1 player was locked out the fight. Boss had 5 stacks of Damage Up. Killed boss in 3 tries.

First 2 wipes because melee didn't know to LB3 the last add.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

There's no pride in Second coil now.

---

Pride moved to Final coil, go clear it while it's still hot :p

hey now i can get my clears again, i used to have a static that ran at 3am my time.. but wait i could get another static to do this content that means i have to rely on 7 people who i don't know well to beat mechanic heavy content? :D no. with the changes i can now go into DF and not have to do seppaku each time we wipe over such stupid reasons, T6 was a farm anyway why are you man t8 was farmed HELL t9 was farmed to high hell, the only 'challenging' one was t7 witch most groups failed due to there incomparable stupidity with cursed voice, i am GLAD that has been changed, and if your worry did you ee the ilevels for most, for people to get in there going to need at least 7 out of 10 weather soldgary, and people were clearing it without that, you beat it when it was released and had the gear, that is your prize for beating it early, the same goes with the final coil of bahamut,you beat it you have your minion and you can gloat on your armour until 3.0 with the new raid.

siriously 34 bloody pages of whining over something that was ineveatable, look at wow wildstar or any other MMO they nerf old content as well in the same ways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

You beat the turns before the nerf, and are able to progress in FCoB significantly earlier than most. Your time wasn't wasted, you got a lot out of it - if it wasn't fun when you did it and worth the experience alone, what's the point in raiding at all?

---

DAT GEAR THO

I haven't beaten any of the SCOB except for T6 and the nerfs to this is just making me sad, where's the fun in raiding without a challenge? Would definitely have been better to make a story mode for those that wanted to clear it for the story, if one was unable to beat it pre-nerf and needed the nerf to even have a chance to beat it you'll probably have big trouble in the FCOB and wipe there until they nerf that.

All I wanted was to finally be able to sign up in DF to actually get in, minus having to get a full group together first. Why on earth can't they just enable coil in DF before slapping a nerf / echo on it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

I haven't beaten Second Coil yet and I'm complaining. Nice loot should be given when effort is done. My group did a test-T6 in DF and it was just face rolled despite the many mistakes and it was disgusting and unsatisfying. No debuff/no real effort. Echo should have been enough...

I prefer the effort of a good fight and the happiness of clearing it. There's no pride in Second coil now.

---

The loot is rapidly becoming outdated, and therefore so is the content. It's only natural that it got Echo and had some of the mechanics tweaked. I mean, tons of people still run BCoB 1-4 and those are a complete and utter faceroll even without Echo. Outdated content is always made easier for the newcomers.

Let's face it, i110 is going to be the new i90 very, very soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riepah

All I wanted was to finally be able to sign up in DF to actually get in, minus having to get a full group together first. Why on earth can't they just enable coil in DF before slapping a nerf / echo on it?

---

Unforgiving mechanics + DF parties = an hour and a half of facedesking. I would've avoided it like the plague.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuinn

This just reeks of "I want my moment of glory to last longer."

---

Nah, I usually advocate against those people, but it's clear to anyone who objectively views these changes that they went way overboard. I'm done with the Second Coil and have nothing left there, but I feel bad for the people who were looking for the release of it to the Duty Finder, a slight Echo buff to ease difficulty a little, yet still get a nice challenge out of every turn. The Second Coil is basically now a Full Party Syrcus Tower until Turn 4.

If older content is not made easier the new players will never catch up, since new content will appear before they manage to catch up.

Some of the new players will be good and work hard and be able to join the Final Coil raids that will need people as there is always people leaving the game and new people coming or coming back.

Yes, new players won't have the experience of how things were before, but they have the hope of reaching newest end game some day. Things are like that.

Imagine if new people would need weeks to win Titan HM as they were needed, the relic quest was as long as it was, Hydra and Chimera not on DF, no roulettes, etc. Those who are now in T6 and think they will miss the experience would probably not have yet reached T1 and the hopes of reaching T6 would be really thin with most people playing more relevant content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Snip

---

Why are you harping on 8 month old content? Isn't it time you moved on to final coil and let it be. You got your new shiney so enjoy.

Anything that makes it easier to farm these in duty finder is okay with me.

Just tried T7 on DF, and it's pretty much a faceroll. Half of us were there to see how bad the nerfs were and the other half were generally new to the fight. We didn't even need to explain anything and we got the clear, but it was super messy. xD

Judging by this entire thread there's very, very few people attempting FCOB for their own enjoyment/satisfaction, it's mostly being done to piss over everyone elses parade and put them down for being inferior, hence the rage when it gets nerfed.

Shame.

You'd think these were achievments for getting somewhere in life, not just for playing a game :x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ellatrix

-snip-

---

I'm up to 9th turn (Thank you college for giving me actual responsibilities instead of allowing fun! >:O) ((Kidding I love college)) and while I get your frustration with the nerfs and they are perfectly valid I feel as though the only loss from what you describe is the Renauds. There was always something hilarious about watching a lalafell try to kite a Renald, mess up and get DESTROYED by a 7K+ auto attack. I've always had an overly active imagination and it just makes me imagine them being launched into the air Team Rocket style.

What. The. Fu#%.

I had been working on SCoB when I could get a group that didn't require a previous kill and was having fun with it, now it is a total joke? At least with echo you can turn it off. From now on I guess it's a situation where you better clear everything while it is still recent or you will never be able to enjoy the fight in its full form.

Either be in a static and do current coil, or faceroll everything. Some middle ground would be nice. Just because some players are casual doesn't mean they don't want a challenge.

I personally have no issue nerfing Second Coil since it's not longer current. I personally welcome the idea of it because it allows for people to make in roads to catch up to current content and increase the overall raiding pool - meaning I have more options to look at it in case I need to PUG a member who's off for the week. It just a matter of filtering the capable from the incapable.

If a player wants to stay on the bleeding edge of content, they have Final Coil to contend with, and by extension, Savage Second Coil. It's not like anyone can change a plyer's achievement dates to reflect them clearing content BEFORE the nerfs, so players still have the pride to say "I beat it before the nerf! Yesh!" Keyword - Pride. That's different from being an elitest jerk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYoung187

From now on I guess it's a situation where you better clear everything while it is still recent or you will never be able to enjoy the fight in its full form.

Either be in a static and do current coil, or faceroll everything. Some middle ground would be nice. Just because some players are casual doesn't mean they don't want a challenge.

---

Exactly, this is the problem. Second Coil with duty finder access (so you won't need to build your own party), with higher item level gear and maybe even an echo could have offered the medium difficulty content this game so desperately needs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYoung187

What. The. Fu#%.

I had been working on SCoB when I could get a group that didn't require a previous kill and was having fun with it, now it is a total joke? At least with echo you can turn it off. From now on I guess it's a situation where you better clear everything while it is still recent or you will never be able to enjoy the fight in its full form.

Either be in a static and do current coil, or faceroll everything. Some middle ground would be nice. Just because some players are casual doesn't mean they don't want a challenge.

---

Well then, good news! There were no changes to T9 other than the added cushion of the Echo! So Nael can still murder the shit out of you for months!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrLeonheart

Well then, good news! There were no changes to T9 other than the added cushion of the Echo! So Nael can still murder the shit out of you for months!

---

Plus people will still wipe to ballistic/AF in t8 even with the changes.

RIP t6/7 tho.

Surprised the echo is starting at 10%. The clear rate stats they have for these must be terrible.

It's funny you complain about something you've already beaten, now the people who couldn't try this content get to at least try it. Take it easy guy. I cleared up till t9 before our static broke, and it was more just frustration than anything else. The satisfaction of beating a hard encounter was nullified by poorly playing members of our group. I never though yes we beat it, instead i thought man we would have beaten this three weeks ago had our SCH figured things out.

Be happy you beat it when there was still some "teeth" to the challenge and let the rest of the masses enjoy the game now.

My POV on opinions expressed on this thread about the nerfs, are:

1) Complaining players are mostly the ones that were make a living with selling runs to who now they call the "filthy casuals", and their toy is now broken or less productive;

2) Complaining about the battle is not as it were before is nonsense, because it can be repeated by the Savage version (dunno if they ignoring that on purpose, or because they hadn't unlocked that and don't know it exists);

3) Complaining about that content now more accessible to casuals is nonsense, because it is old content and the raiding player of today, is supposed to be on FCoB;

4) Complaining about the fight is more easy and/or presence of Echo is nonsense, because when game progresses, the player or armor iLvl increase and even without nerfs, do again the content with an i500 armor or a level 60 job, will be easy anyway;

The only thing I found really productive on this thread, is that helped me a lot on updating my ignore list.

Personally, I'm real mad other people can enjoy the game, especially non-current content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

1) Complaining players are mostly the ones that were make a living with selling runs to who now they call the "filthy casuals", and their toy is now broken or less productive

---

This is simply not true. The OP may sell runs, and I've noticed a couple of posts where the poster claims they do as well, but I've also seen many posts from players who haven't beaten second coil turns yet and are annoyed the challenge has now been removed (you only need to read the last few pages to notice these), and then there are people like me who have beaten it but feel the change is unfair for those who haven't yet (as a leader of a FC that has 2 Coil groups in T8 and T9 currently). So stop making this stuff up about posters in the thread to try to belittle their opinion.

I'm on the fence about this. However, from T6:

Dark matter hornets will no longer continue to spawn after phase transitions, even when players are afflicted by the Honey-glazed status effect.

That's something that should have been there from the beginning. It'd be nice if that specific kind of fix were applied to a few other Turns. Having to hold DPS from being too good was kind of annoying.

I haven't actually gotten to second coil yet, and I'm actually kinda disappointed that I won't get to experience the challenge as it was intended. Sure I could turn echo off, but still...

As for Savage, there's now an even bigger disparity between it's difficulty and that of the normal raids. Those who are interested in trying it will find themselves out of their depth due to inufficient training. Which is the same problem with Final Coil, although I guess that'll get it's own nerf eventually.

Adding Echo should have been the extent of SE's adjustments. That's something we can turn off if we want to. A story mode coil with no loot (or lesser loot, like say antique stuff) is also a posibility.

This is the first MMO I have played where people complain when older content gets nerfed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Cleared T13 already. I enjoyed SCoB though, quite a bit. I still have a few pieces left to farm, and now I get watered down fights of dumb.

---

Correction, you still have savage coil that provides the exact same loot as regualr scob. so...yea, you get harder fights then scob prenerf for the loot you need...have fun and have a wonderful day

---

THIS, so much this. The original poster is just bitching because now they can't feel as elite as more casual players. Get over it, it'll be months before others come close to clearing FCoB, hang on to that epeen for awhile before moving onto the next endgame chunk of content.

Seems like they were a little heavy handed in the nerfs for T6, but T7 is definitely going to help people out. T8 with the right orchestration already wasn't very hard once you met the DPS check so with ECHO they probably could have left that one alone, but I'll live.

I wonder how T9 will feel with that 10%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

This is the first MMO I have played where people complain when older content gets nerfed.

---

It's pretty common. People think that because they got a shiny nobody else should be able to get that shiny months after they've moved on to higher tiers of content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

This is simply not true. The OP may sell runs...

---

I wasn't against specific the OP, but to a generic group of players. OP's business is legit. I don't like it but legit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

...I've also seen many posts from players who haven't beaten second coil turns yet and are annoyed the challenge has now been removed (you only need to read the last few pages to notice these)

---

I had read all 36 pages before post. Your comment was handled by my points 2) and 4). But will repeat here: they can unlock Savage and get the fun they wants, there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

...So stop making this stuff up about posters in the thread to try to belittle their opinion.

---

Sorry, will not stop making my opinion on the matter, as long as I've same right as you to make my own here.
"Making up stuff" is a different thing, it is create false facts or distorce existing ones, to make up a point. I made no points, I made my opinion. You don't like it, ok, but don't ask me to shut up because so.