Frontlines: There should not be ANY rewards for 2nd or 3rd place

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Originally Posted by CapaxInfiniti

Amazing how bad a take this is and how many people are salivating over it.

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In fact, it's the same story as the drama in chaotic raids. Only now the group of people who like PvP and the group who visit FL once for the sake of roulette intersect.

PvP players interested in more quality matchaces, like hardcore players interested in fast and clean progs and clears. But, in PvP case you can't offer players more soft type of content. So we get terrible matchmaking situation.
These are literally two completely different categories of players and mixing them in one place is a bad idea from the start.

Most likely, it assumed that the player should grow in many ways?

The path of prohibitions and punishments leads nowhere.
No matter how much someone would like to kick and ban everyone in a row (even if deservedly so), it is not the fault of these players that the developer gave them the opportunity to participate in matches for rewards.

Moreover, it is still the only way to keep the FL queue alive.

What's funny is that I encountered this problem for the first time in FF14, which is not surprising, because the game does not sell itself as PvP-oriented.
In other games of this genre this problem does not exist, simply because they all by default assume that you will inevitably participate in PvP. Therefore such discussions do not arise, and if they do, then usually for such players they usually open a "peaceful" server.

And so, if in ranked CC games devs separated PvP players from the rest, but in casual FL matches, i really no idea how to do that.

So OP is thinking in the right direction. He wants to improve the quality of matches, not take away awards, but proposed most simple and rude way.

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Originally Posted by Rolks

When I tank a dungeon, the amount of times I'm puzzled that one of the mobs dies faster than the others, and then realize it's because the DRG is single targeting drives me nuts. I brought it up once, and the guys said, "my single target does more damage." No it doesn't. I took the time to explain it to him, and he was like IDGAF, single target more damage. So I gave up, roll my eyes, and quietly steam as the trash mobs take FOR - EV - ER.

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I can sympathize with the frustration, but the truth of the matter is, that you too enable this kind of behavior by not stopping the run then and there and insisting that either that DRG be kicked, or you. At the end, this player got their way 100%. And it mustn't matter how far the dungeon is, even before the last boss. We have the same kind of arguments and behaviors in Frontline as well, which is where the whole problem originates from in the first place. That's why I advocated that every enabler should also receive strikes for any statement that excuses such behavior.

People on this game are too soft. Wherever these morons are, be that AR roulette, in your duty, in Frontlines. Kick their asses out. If this were any other MMORPG you'd get reamed out for deliberately playing like trash, clowned on, thrown out of the dungeon, and added to raiding blacklists. Nobody has got time to waste dragging these dead weight losers around, and their friends who enable this behaviour should get the same punishment. It's okay to hurt these peoples feelings because they most certainly don't care about anyone else around them.

Let's not even pretend that they are "Participating" in anything. They're not. They are wasting a spot someone else could have filled on your team who would have actually at the very least made a half hearted attempt at participation. The more these lethargic losers get kicked for their crap gameplay, the longer the penalty should be. Get kicked from Frontlines 3 times for lethargic behaviour? Week long penalty. Keep doing it? Watch that number grow into months. I love to see the tears falling from the faces of people who think that asking people to perform the bare minimum expected of them in a duty is unfair. If you can't handle the heat get the hell out of the kitchen and go back to AFKing in venues.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

People on this game are too soft.

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More like current frontlines is awful game mode

1) 1v1v1 is unfair
2) randomness of pve towers spawn is unfair (magnified by 1, i saw a bunch of games ended from literally start based on spawns)
3) battle high is unfair (magnified by 1)
4) people figured out matchmaking is trash, so you can easy meet premades consisting of multiple groups in same team = fair for them (magnified by 1) and 3) )
5) overall class balance is bad, doesn't help that ff14 doesn't have basic things wow CLASSIC has and i am not covering lame +dmg -dmg for frontlines (magnified by 4), meta stacking)
6) this should be in 5), ff14 netcode is trash

Just remove frontlines and spread devs workload (which is nearly zero just by looking at what they are doing) elsewhere.

1) 1v1 would be even more unfair since you'd remove the single lever mechanic allowing for both losing teams to focus on the winning one. No matter what you say about clowns that keep fighting each other instead of attacking the first team, in most FL games I've seen, people actually do go after the first team.
2) rng is what make games less of the same and different every time. The lack of rng is exactly what made Secure stale and current Shatter incredibly dull and predictable. I do think that their rng could be tuned better so that it doesn't spawn completely lopsided but more balanced across the maps.
3) battle high is a reward that rewards people actually engaging into pvp instead of only going for objectives. The day people will understand that, they'll understand how FL are meant to be played effectively.
4) matchmaking in all pvp modes definitely needs improvement.
5) 7.2 and their vaunted, promised FL rework and balancing cannot come soon enough. Kinda curious to see how it's gonna go.
6) yep

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Originally Posted by Valence

1) 1v1 would be even more unfair since you'd remove the single lever mechanic allowing for both losing teams to focus on the winning one. No matter what you say about clowns that keep fighting each other instead of attacking the first team, in most FL games I've seen, people actually do go after the first team.
2) rng is what make games less of the same and different every time. The lack of rng is exactly what made Secure stale and current Shatter incredibly dull and predictable. I do think that their rng could be tuned better so that it doesn't spawn completely lopsided but more balanced across the maps.
3) battle high is a reward that rewards people actually engaging into pvp instead of only going for objectives. The day people will understand that, they'll understand how FL are meant to be played effectively.
4) matchmaking in all pvp modes definitely needs improvement.
5) 7.2 and their vaunted, promised FL rework and balancing cannot come soon enough. Kinda curious to see how it's gonna go.
6) yep

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Wanted to endorse this point explicitly as a small contribution to preventing the devs from reducing FL RNG. It's precisely what gives PvP a different flavor from PvE. The lack of it in Shatter does indeed make that map (for me) unplayable.

Also a general point: there is nothing "unfair" about randomness in a mode in which one gets to play from all spawn positions and experience all node spawn combinations.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

People on this game are too soft. Wherever these morons are, be that AR roulette, in your duty, in Frontlines. Kick their asses out. If this were any other MMORPG you'd get reamed out for deliberately playing like trash, clowned on, thrown out of the dungeon, and added to raiding blacklists. Nobody has got time to waste dragging these dead weight losers around, and their friends who enable this behaviour should get the same punishment. It's okay to hurt these peoples feelings because they most certainly don't care about anyone else around them.

Let's not even pretend that they are "Participating" in anything. They're not. They are wasting a spot someone else could have filled on your team who would have actually at the very least made a half hearted attempt at participation. The more these lethargic losers get kicked for their crap gameplay, the longer the penalty should be. Get kicked from Frontlines 3 times for lethargic behaviour? Week long penalty. Keep doing it? Watch that number grow into months. I love to see the tears falling from the faces of people who think that asking people to perform the bare minimum expected of them in a duty is unfair. If you can't handle the heat get the hell out of the kitchen and go back to AFKing in venues.

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Naw this take is 100% valid. We got ppl crying that msq is too hard, lvl 100 dungeons too hard, normal raid arcadian too hard, pvp too hard, learning viper was too hard, weaving rotations too hard, damn allot stuff in ff14 seems to be too hard lately.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Naw this take is 100% valid. We got ppl crying that msq is too hard, lvl 100 dungeons too hard, normal raid arcadian too hard, pvp too hard, learning viper was too hard, weaving rotations too hard, damn allot stuff in ff14 seems to be too hard lately.

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They'll be begging for the game to have auto-play like some mobile game any day now.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

It's precisely what gives PvP a different flavor from PvE.

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Woah i must be a strange person coming from wow and thinking that pvp even in bgs should be about of outplaying enemy by your skill not by literally first spawned rng towers (i had like 500 points lead win against 2 teams in that 700 points map (yes i really dont care about naming of these obnoxious battlegrounds)).

Rng towers can be fine, but as i said, 1v1v1 makes it worse.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Woah i must be a strange person coming from wow and thinking that pvp even in bgs should be about of outplaying enemy by your skill not by literally first spawned rng towers (i had like 500 points lead win against 2 teams in that 700 points map (yes i really dont care about naming of these obnoxious battlegrounds)).

Rng towers can be fine, but as i said, 1v1v1 makes it worse.

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RNG towers can't be fine because Square Enix isn't capable of making competent changes to Frontlines at this point. Anytime Square Enix has changed something about Frontlines, it has catastrophically fucked it up. Shatter was a favorite map, and instead of reworking Seal Rock, Or Borderland Ruins, they ruined a map most people looked forward to playing on. I don't want SE to put their grubby hands on any other maps since we know all they'll do is neuter them with their incompent game design. Almost universally every change that came after 6.1 has been bad for Frontlines and that trend is going to continue until the mode is completely drained of anything resembling competitive PvP.